After a year and after millions of games from all levels, I'd like to think Blizzard should have a good idea about gameplay and balance. I'm expecting something big in HoTS **cough** LURKERS **cough**
I think all they need to do to make the ultralisk more used is to fix it's pathing. It doesn't need a buff of any kind. As it is now it's pretty much a slow moving roadblock. I think they should allow units like lings to pass under ultra. Ultras can be used, but are so situational right now.
I sort of have mixed feelings on buffing unused units. The thing that scares me most is that those units are simply undiscovered, and a buff will put the metagame back a month or so. The next example is a hypothetical (I actually don't think infestor-ling is imba) Look at the infestor buff (which wasn't even used for a decent amount of time), which has arguably set ZvP in Z favor. Now Protoss players have to try to find a way to beat it while Zerg players just have to win until Protoss figures out a way to beat it. After Protoss figures it out, both sides will be creative again, but there will be some time of meh games. Was ZvP imbalanced before the infestor buff? Is ZvP imbalanced now? I don't think so for either, but Z seems to be winning a lot more afterwards.
Ultras are on the weak end of Hive tech, but they still see some use in every matchup occasionally.
Carriers, on the other hand, are outright useless. They're really only useful for the 'shock value' in a late-late-game PvT scenario, and even then there are usually better options.
Blizzard said in an interview pretty recently that they were okay with some units being 'casual level,' i.e. only good for massing in free-for-alls. Considering the last few weeks of play, it seems like that statement mostly applies to Fleet Beacon tech. It would be nice if Motherships and Carriers got increased movespeed and lower build times, but at this point that's more of a HotS change.
On August 14 2011 00:06 petered wrote: "They should buff the hellion, no one ever uses that useless unit"
That was the general thinking not long ago. Then SlayerS has a little marine/zergling/zealot barbeque and now everyone uses hellions.
The moral of the story is, some units may be in a great spot, but no one uses them correctly.
Agree. You look at something like Metal, and say, "That's a balanced and good map, a map everyone enjoys."
Sure, you'd field criticism for close positions from zerg and how it's unwinnable etc, but then blizzard steps in and drops some knowledge, and says things like, "Zerg has 60+% win."
Which goes directly into the face of what the community's been thinking. So, while i agree, they'll make the right decision, i just want to remind everyone that what everyone thinks, isn't always what's the case.
infestor ultralisk in the late game destroys protoss especially stalker heavy armies -_- In BW everyone thought they were bad. They buffed them from 100 minerals to 75 (i think), now they are an integral part of terran harass
Ultralisks are a lot stronger if you synergize them properly with the right units. Ultras and roaches aren't anything special. Neither are ultras and lings. But Ultras work awesome with infestors, with banelings, hell I could see them working well with hydras.
I'm saying, imagine brood lords with the wrong units underneath them. They'd be the weak end too. Zerg has a comparatively stronger end game unit because they're easier to field than carriers and cattlebruisers.
I stand by let unused units be discovered. And sure as hell don't buff them. I don't want something to go from underused to broken. Thats the opposite of fixing the problem! Edit: Remembered what I was going to end with. Archons weren't underused, they were poorly designed. Having a mildly expensive unit that can be conc'd and kited until its killed was a bad decision that was rectified. While one or two units may fall under that same category it is way too easy to make a mistake for the worse. Yes hydras need a speed upgrade. Sure overlord speed should be on hatchery tech. But will it break ZvP to buff ZvT scouting or the other way around?
Just touching any of the less commonly used units would change how their opponents react during an actual game...
On August 14 2011 00:19 SoKHo wrote: infestor ultralisk in the late game destroys protoss especially stalker heavy armies -_- In BW everyone thought they were bad. They buffed them from 100 minerals to 75 (i think), now they are an integral part of terran harass
I think you have those words mixed up... in that last line...or in the wrong places...? Not sure if that's what you really meant...and uh... those two units which you might be referring to are not the same...one is slightly faster than a ling while the other one isn't
On August 13 2011 23:22 Olsson wrote: There are two types of unused units:
Undiscovered: Units like BC, Raven and Warp Prism are undiscovered and relatively unknown how they can be put into gameplay and be used in good ways. Raven is only used in some TvP all-in scenarios and recently in the mech style of TvT, both times just for PDD.
Shitty: Units like the Ultralisk and Hydras that are not used as frequently (yeah sure Hydras some times in ZvP very special scenarios like stargate, otherwise not standard) just suck and needs buffs to become useful. Reaper might be one of them but personally I find four reapers and then stopping there without speed to be very deadly against hatch first builds or later speed builds as queen is the only defence.
This does not make sense and that's why these threads are pointless. Ultralisks and Hydralisks shitty units? Come on.
Ultralisk worst T3 unit in the game, period. Hydralisks 80 hp, unusable off creep and needs upgrade to have same range as stalker.
Carrier is pretty much it. I see ravens all the time in 1-1-1 pushes, multiple in late game air-wars with PDD and hunter seeker missile against viking clumps, used with vikings against cloaked banshee openings.
I see ultra commonly as a transition out of ling/infestor in ZvT. Nerchio and I believe Morrow do this and make standard tank/marine armies look stupid because tanks do so little damage to ultralisks, which serve mostly to soak up fire while cracklings deal the real damage. People claim the AI is stupid for some reason but if you babysit their movement a bit it solves most pathing issues.
People will complain about hydras and say stuff like they need a speed upgrade. They're already great in certain situations, like after killing off the colossi and remaxing with them againk blink stalkers opposed to just mass roach. Or for the 2 base nydus v protoss on tal'darim altar. They work well in any timing when no colossi out, giving them a speed upgrade wouldn't change them dying to colossi (which they should since they are extremely good versus gateway). Sometimes it also seems beneficial to sprinkle in a couple with your roach army in ZvZ to do some additional DPS, like Nestea v Leenock I believe it was. This isn't Brood War where hydralisks are your tier one solution to everything. Roaches are already extremely good in low to medium number engagements, and some people still just mass them into the late game and do perfectly fine, no need to make hydralisks have more HP or something as well. Roach/hydra/corruptor is slowly dying off and rightfully should, it made for the stupidest ZvP games and was an illogical late game composition anyway.
They either need to make the ultralisk smaller or make it able to to walk on units like the colossus and the unit might just do a little bit of damage.
I actually find Ultras to be superior to BL for hive tech simply because of mobility, I feel its a unit that will be used more and more as peoples multitasking to abuse that mobility improves
Ultras and Hydras are really good units... you just have to know when and how to use them.
I think the Carrier is also a good unit, but it could use a "psycological buff" (like blue flame Hellions with that icon patch change). Specifically, make the interceptors build automatically...
I use to hate Ultras, found them to be worthless, waste of money.
Then I started getting super fast upgrades for meele/carapace, get a few infestors, and then found out that a 3/5 ultralisk army, with infestor support and cracklings that are 3/3 tear through pretty much anything. Now I use Ultras almost every game vs. toss, make those stupid FF worthless, and with infestors you can actually catch and engage.
Sometimes units are flat out broken, and then they should be looked at. But sometimes it just takes time to understand the potential of a unit, OR how to combine a unit with another unit to really reveal it's strengths like in the case of the Ultra/Infestor combination.
Raven is another unit I found to be pretty underused by terran players, and now you start to see that often as well.
I think BC's have their place, but the one unit that right now might need help are Carriers. But who knows, maybe with Toss players struggling we'll find that they will all the sudden have some value and that will change.
On August 14 2011 00:59 Volka wrote: Ultras and Hydras are really good units... you just have to know when and how to use them.
I think the Carrier is also a good unit, but it could use a "psycological buff" (like blue flame Hellions with that icon patch change). Specifically, make the interceptors build automatically...
Maybe Protoss should also get a change where they can 4 gate automatically? This way they don't ever have to push buttons.
The problem with this question is that every Zerg unit is used, because there are so few of them to choose between. Their only option for shooting up is the hydralisk or the, well, queen. So there aren't really any unused Zerg units -- but I don't think that means they don't need a buff or redesign.
EPT
