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hey everybody 
In the last few days i heard even more then in the past how dumb ultralisks are and how less they are used.
In that case a quote from blizzard came to my mind where they said that they buffed the archon and BC because it was mostly unused. The question i am asinkg myself is: what is with all the other units that arent used at all?! That is not only about the ultralisk but the carrier and raven aswell. (there might be more but they dont came to my mind atm. ) The raven is ok as a unit it is right know and i am not complaining, but i am talking about things like the seeker missile or even the cannon strike from the thor, which are essentially not the units, but the spell which are underused.
i am just wondering and that is no complaining about balance or anything near that. It interests me if there are more people asking themselves the same thing. In my opinion it would be really cool to see more units and speels or lets say to see all units used in some way. The ultralisk isnt used because zerg has broodlords which seem to be better. But in my opinion that is not the way the game should go. When zerg goes hive u already know it will be broods, which is kinda boring. I really liked what blizzard did to the BC and archon because know they are used units , which brings larger variety to the game!
So what do you guys think about that. Does these units need a buff, or will they come with time? Or dont u like the idea off buffing units just to get the used at all??
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Just because an unit is unused doesn't mean its bad, more like just undiscovered.
Many a times units just don't get used because there's a better alternative at that moment and theres no need to try something new (remember zerg and protoss back in february?). If you buff carriers unnecessarily, suddenly an unbeatable carrier timing comes out and derps the game.
Not saying buffs shouldn't happen, but strategies need more time to settle before Blizz can attempt to change the game.
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I think the key to some of those units to being used more isn't buffing at all.
Some of the mentioned units are already crazy strong, and I think their time will come.
But high tier units aren't easy to implement to your standard games, and thats fine like this... thats why they are high tier.
I think buffing them would be a huge misstake, ergo I expect Blizzard that they will buff them very soon
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the game is fine, honestly the main reason a lot of units arent used is because they are situational, the carrier requires you to be on 5-6 base to tech to safely and be able to get them out in high number in a reasonable amount of time, but it is possible and with this scenario it would do quite well in a few battles assuming the opponent doesnt have a critical mass of vikings/corruptors
the raven is being used just fine, its a support unit not a main army unit and is seeing use at the pro level (mainly TvT it seems)
the problem with the ultralisk is that it dies too easily to enemy compositions, to buff this however would make it an imba unit, there are still situations where the ultra can be used and there are other situations where the BL can be used better, currently BL infestor is the go to composition for zerg against terran and protoss but its not the only one, ultralisk/queen (preferably with some hydra/ling support) does rather well due to transfuse micro and ultras never dying its quite fine
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buffing an unused units usually result in a slightly unbalanced or very powerful units, like the infestors, they were fine before the patch, it just that there's not enough people willing to try it out. The archon is a different case though, it was underused because it was rather useless compare to a high templar with KA, so people only morph it after ht used up all the energy
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The ultralisk is EXTREMELY GOOD with the infestor...
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Buff the terran bunker and building upgrades, they are so underused atm.
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You're mixing things up.
They buffed Archons because they were broken. Blizzard said they are fine with situational units.
Also what's up with these kind of threads? It's not our job to propose balance changes, it's Blizzard's job.
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I think the raven is underused because it has light armor. Why is it this gas heavy unit not armored like a bc?
The ultra needs no buff imo, it can tank so much damage and that is what it is designed for.
I think we could see ultra hydra infestor in the future of zvz.
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I dont propose balance changes. i think u dont understand what i am saying. I dont say that they should or must buff theses units i am just asking about other opinions to get a better piont of view myself.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
I see a fair number of Ultralisks and too many Ravens in high-level games, but it would be nice if Carriers had some limited role the way that BCs do now.
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Buff the "fun to watch" units(Ravens, Ultras). If you just buff the boring underused units(Reapers) it's not helping the game.
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People have been using the Raven a lot in GSL and even used the Seeker Missile a few times lately.
I also saw Ultras multiple times last week in GSL too. I guess Carriers could use a buff but Protoss is already very strong super late-game so I don't think it's necessary.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Ultralisk must walk over zerglings. Nothing more. They're ok with queen transfusions and speed (on creep they're faster, than 2.95 stalker)
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Nobody uses ultralisks or ravens? Whatchutalkinbout?
I think its fair to say the carrier is underused though.
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i disagree with the sentiment. It's like queens in BW. Unused for about a decade, and then all of a sudden being used in a flurry of games.
Also, ultras fully upgraded are actually REALLY good units. as long as you're getting your ling upgrades as the game goes on, by the time you get ultras, you'll be able to do a LOT with them.
Raven's underused because people don't see the utility of it yet. It's an incredibly strong unit. Same with Ghosts.
And BCs just take a really long time to get to. I feel like you often hit your "ideal" unit comp before you're in a position to be like, "I want THIS!"
Also:
On August 13 2011 23:13 graNite wrote:
I think the raven is underused because it has light armor. Why is it this gas heavy unit not armored like a bc?
The ultra needs no buff imo, it can tank so much damage and that is what it is designed for.
I think we could see ultra hydra infestor in the future of zvz.
Because if you had the raven as an armored unit, it'd be really strong. it has to have SOME drawback.
ANd ultras take the exact amount of damage i think they should be able to. That's why they exist. To tank a ton of damage. Not to deal it out. Which is why you let them lead, take the first three or four tank shots, and then move in your lings, who are the actual DPS of your army
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There are two types of unused units:
Undiscovered:
Units like BC, Raven and Warp Prism are undiscovered and relatively unknown how they can be put into gameplay and be used in good ways. Raven is only used in some TvP all-in scenarios and recently in the mech style of TvT, both times just for PDD.
Shitty:
Units like the Ultralisk and Hydras that are not used as frequently (yeah sure Hydras some times in ZvP very special scenarios like stargate, otherwise not standard) just suck and needs buffs to become useful. Reaper might be one of them but personally I find four reapers and then stopping there without speed to be very deadly against hatch first builds or later speed builds as queen is the only defence.
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On August 13 2011 23:20 reneg wrote:i disagree with the sentiment. It's like queens in BW. Unused for about a decade, and then all of a sudden being used in a flurry of games. Also, ultras fully upgraded are actually REALLY good units. as long as you're getting your ling upgrades as the game goes on, by the time you get ultras, you'll be able to do a LOT with them. Raven's underused because people don't see the utility of it yet. It's an incredibly strong unit. Same with Ghosts. And BCs just take a really long time to get to. I feel like you often hit your "ideal" unit comp before you're in a position to be like, "I want THIS!" Also: Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 23:13 graNite wrote:
I think the raven is underused because it has light armor. Why is it this gas heavy unit not armored like a bc?
The ultra needs no buff imo, it can tank so much damage and that is what it is designed for.
I think we could see ultra hydra infestor in the future of zvz. Because if you had the raven as an armored unit, it'd be really strong. it has to have SOME drawback. ANd ultras take the exact amount of damage i think they should be able to. That's why they exist. To tank a ton of damage. Not to deal it out. Which is why you let them lead, take the first three or four tank shots, and then move in your lings, who are the actual DPS of your army
This is the symptom of the sickness that is damage types in SC2. They simply carry too much weight and turn the game into a counter-fest. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist(they did in BW) but they shouldn't matter as much as they do now.
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Some units aren't used because they:
A) Cost too much for their value
B) Take up too much supply to use.
C) Are out of the tech path of a standard build
The raven costs 200 gas and must be produced from a starport with a techlab (A and C
The carrier requires stargate tech and a fleet beacon (C)
The mothership also requires stargate tech and a fleet beacon and takes up 8 supply and costs 400 gas (A, B and C)
If these units weren't so difficult or costly to get, I'm sure that they would be used more in professional play
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actually i forgot to mention the hydra. That is a unit of that sort aswell. But it was used very oftne in the past and gets more and more unused atm. So it is the other way around.
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EPT
