EPTTiG Opinion Article on NASL Situation - Page 7
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:00 DystopiaX wrote: At the same time it makes sense the managers are taking the lead since it seems that they're the ones who have to worry about the team's expenses, and in the end they're the ones who have to find the budget for the NASL travel expenses. But if a player wants to pay for themselves and theres no conflicts, why would a team stop them? | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I honestly dont think its reasonable from the Korean side. Yes, it sucks they dont have the sponsors to send them to this event but the rules are the same for everyone... Agreeing to play and then pulling out is shitty, if it had been a disagreement from the first step it wouldnt have been an issue at all.... I *do* think NASL should pay full flight costs for everyone who qualifies for the final, but thats unrelated to this. Its a bit of a difference in culture I would guess - Korean and Chinese events usually pay for the travel & accomodation I think. Like, CPL paid for tickets and hotel and some meals etc (but they only paid for flights within asia). What I heard from Mr. Chae is that they never finished the negotiation but NASL went ahead with filming. Therefore they've never really reached an agreement to play at all. | ||
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Kerm
France467 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I honestly dont think its reasonable from the Korean side. Yes, it sucks they dont have the sponsors to send them to this event but the rules are the same for everyone... Agreeing to play and then pulling out is shitty, if it had been a disagreement from the first step it wouldnt have been an issue at all.... I *do* think NASL should pay full flight costs for everyone who qualifies for the final, but thats unrelated to this. Its a bit of a difference in culture I would guess - Korean and Chinese events usually pay for the travel & accomodation I think. Like, CPL paid for tickets and hotel and some meals etc (but they only paid for flights within asia). yeah but don't you think there's just constraint on both sides here ? I mean Korean SC2 Teams are supposed to be low on sponsor-money, thus they probably can't really afford the travel. And NASL is probably quite tight on budget, so can't really fly the Koreans in either. There is just not ehough money on either side. I agree however that waiting the last minute is not the best way to behave. | ||
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
It's simple to see why Koreans don't want to compete in it | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:50 sleepingdog wrote: so, by logic, GSL should pay every western pro-gamer all travel-expenses and lodging in korea when they want to play in GSL? seriously? Also, the security-posit-argument is ridiculous - something like that is completely, like 100% common in every business contract "outside" esports. You can't ensure performance of your counterpart, therefore you demand money to have leverage. I have never been against koreans joining the NASL, but if they feel mistreated and make strange demands I won't miss them and enjoy their play in GSL and to some extent MLG instead. They're talking about the players who qualify for the finals, not every player. The comparison to the GSL would be the MLG players who qualify for GSL, which GOMTV does actually pay for their travel and lodging. The fact is, it's very common for tournaments to pay for travel and lodging for players who qualify for a tournament finals. This is different from a player who is going through an open bracket or qualifier. Generally there's not many players in the finals of a given tournament, and one could maybe fault NASL's model a bit here (use less players in the finals), so the travel expense is reasonable and worthwhile given that there's nothing worse than a player qualifying for the finals and not showing up. | ||
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stalife
Canada1222 Posts
Korean progamers are professional gamers, so they should be playing in professional tournaments, not amateur tournaments.. (like NASL I assume? it wasn't said directly, but I think it was implied..) The statement also suggested NASL's model so far has been use top players to bring in the viewers, while NASL makes all the money. Then lastly, the statement said NASL should either quit, or step up their game with proper management that aligns with standards of top professional players Again, my Korean's pretty sloppy, and maybe I read it wrong. But that was what I read.. :D | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
To hell with those teams taht whine, seriously, they compare NASL with korean amateur tournaments, and still they withdraw on the last minute. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:14 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I honestly dont think its reasonable from the Korean side. Yes, it sucks they dont have the sponsors to send them to this event but the rules are the same for everyone... Agreeing to play and then pulling out is shitty, if it had been a disagreement from the first step it wouldnt have been an issue at all.... I *do* think NASL should pay full flight costs for everyone who qualifies for the final, but thats unrelated to this. Its a bit of a difference in culture I would guess - Korean and Chinese events usually pay for the travel & accomodation I think. Like, CPL paid for tickets and hotel and some meals etc (but they only paid for flights within asia). How do the oGs players feel about SC2Con's decision? | ||
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TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
To get this straight - this is what a player from Korea invests in cost and time. This assuming that the final event will be held at a good place like for instance Ontario.
As you can see the costs are easily $2000 ($3000 if NASL choose a bad place for finals). Still with the NASL offer they would still pay $1000 for each player. Travel and lodging costs. That's a reason why MLG is not flooded with talented Europeans because it's not worth it to go to MLG for a $5000 maximum prize money when it costs so much. If I were the manager of a Korean team and had MC in my team, I would pay for this investment, but at the same time I can understand their point. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
Recently Korea successively overseas players teams are England and has participated in numerous international competitions. However, a more cautious approach is needed for it. Korea, as in the case of NASL players that can deliver the best content is a good means of making money. Korea, the players, but they use their money and just pay for does not. Bear TV players overseas in Korea and South Korea's outstanding overseas players for the variety of activities are conducted in conjunction with the program. MLG Columbus, MLG Anaheim, followed the course of Raleigh MLG MLG is a typical mid-August, the IEM is also scheduled to take place. International tournament for players to experience a wider world with players from abroad an opportunity to win an absolute must compete for. But I do not forget the fact that a pro, amateur competitions such as the decision to give up boldly exhibit is required. NASL second season of the year $ 1.1 million (KRW 108 million won), season, $ 2.1 million, $ 3.2 million season (KRW 216 million won), and total prize money, $ 400,000 (KRW 400 million 32 million won), and under the world's top class "Starcraft 2> invited players will create competition, he said. But until now, their behavior showed that the best players in the world utilize these 'tricks of the NASL players faking two beolgetda money "is nothing more than a hunch. Finally, the NASL lose out to run for Congress even now, the best players in the world expected from the phase that exhibited shape and Congress want to show the operation. On the other hand, NASL players lined up on Season 1 were not paid the deposit yet, has not paid cash, too. In addition, South Korea Teams FXOKorea recently merged with FXOpen except for the NASL Season 2 All teams and players decided not to exhibit at. | ||
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ineq
Sweden376 Posts
Teams should invest in sending their players to events, they get TONS of exposure, especially the Koreans, who most of the times plague the top positions with their presence. | ||
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alexhard
Sweden317 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:35 ineq wrote: I'm almost willing to go as far as to say that it is slightly disgusting how Korean proteams expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plate. $1k is ALOT to invest, it's $16k for every finals event that they hand out to the players, in addition to their huge prizepool. Koreans are thinking to highly of themselves. Guess it's from their BroodWar background. *waving hands* SC2 is not Korean BW! Teams should invest in sending their players to events, they get TONS of exposure, especially the Koreans, who most of the times plague the top positions with their presence. They are the best and most popular players in the world. MLG went from nothing to superstars with the GOM agreement (just look at the "recordbraking viewers" after each MLG lately). Simply put, they have sufficient leverage for this sort of request. It's the same reason F1 teams get a larger cut of the broadcast money the higher they place in the manufacturer's championship. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:35 ineq wrote: I'm almost willing to go as far as to say that it is slightly disgusting how Korean proteams expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plate. $1k is ALOT to invest, it's $16k for every finals event that they hand out to the players, in addition to their huge prizepool. Koreans are thinking to highly of themselves. Guess it's from their BroodWar background. *waving hands* SC2 is not Korean BW! Teams should invest in sending their players to events, they get TONS of exposure, especially the Koreans, who most of the times plague the top positions with their presence. you are right. 1k is alot to invest. to both side. Why should korean team should be participating then? Especially knowing they haven't been happy with the conditions and the fact that they havent recieved the money from season 1 yet. | ||
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insaneMicro
Germany761 Posts
I guess it's their loss, what with the 100k for third season etc. | ||
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centinel4
Austria50 Posts
Coordinate schedules of major events. and play these locally (tournaments for only americans, only europeans and only koreans). then once a month or 2 months play a Champions League, where the top 4 of each league compete. Maybe in europe (more central for everyone unless u are in the West US coast). I think something like WSCF (World Starcraft Federation) should exist in order to make SC global. otherwise that will not happen or at least not in a large scale. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:19 Kerm wrote: yeah but don't you think there's just constraint on both sides here ? I mean Korean SC2 Teams are supposed to be low on sponsor-money, thus they probably can't really afford the travel. And NASL is probably quite tight on budget, so can't really fly the Koreans in either. There is just not ehough money on either side. I agree however that waiting the last minute is not the best way to behave. NASL is not low on money, they have an incredibly prize pool. During the finals (mainly the first day, second day onwards got rid of plenty of the problems), half of the people were moaning why not reduce the prize pool and increase the production value. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
The Koreans that make it to the finals are given a realistic shot of making really good money, gaining exposure, being given the opportunity to travel and meet a huge fanbase, and SC2con is throwing out the most ridiculous demands. And yet they send Koreans to MLG where first place gives 10% as much as the NASL, and the scheduling is much more grueling/prone to change. There is no investment in flying over to play in the NASL finals, they will pretty much break even no matter what, and getting a percentage deducted from a HUGE prizepool isn't a big deal. I had no plans to watch the NASL season regardless of this, but this will really discourage me from attending the finals T_T | ||
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shockaslim
United States1105 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:33 JustPassingBy wrote: this is what google translate says: Recently Korea successively overseas players teams are England and has participated in numerous international competitions. However, a more cautious approach is needed for it. Korea, as in the case of NASL players that can deliver the best content is a good means of making money. Korea, the players, but they use their money and just pay for does not. Bear TV players overseas in Korea and South Korea's outstanding overseas players for the variety of activities are conducted in conjunction with the program. MLG Columbus, MLG Anaheim, followed the course of Raleigh MLG MLG is a typical mid-August, the IEM is also scheduled to take place. International tournament for players to experience a wider world with players from abroad an opportunity to win an absolute must compete for. But I do not forget the fact that a pro, amateur competitions such as the decision to give up boldly exhibit is required. NASL second season of the year $ 1.1 million (KRW 108 million won), season, $ 2.1 million, $ 3.2 million season (KRW 216 million won), and total prize money, $ 400,000 (KRW 400 million 32 million won), and under the world's top class "Starcraft 2> invited players will create competition, he said. But until now, their behavior showed that the best players in the world utilize these 'tricks of the NASL players faking two beolgetda money "is nothing more than a hunch. Finally, the NASL lose out to run for Congress even now, the best players in the world expected from the phase that exhibited shape and Congress want to show the operation. On the other hand, NASL players lined up on Season 1 were not paid the deposit yet, has not paid cash, too. In addition, South Korea Teams FXOKorea recently merged with FXOpen except for the NASL Season 2 All teams and players decided not to exhibit at. Never use Google translate for eastern languages....ever. | ||
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
I find that most people think that the Koreans are not satisfied with the amount of money NASL provide for their traveling. Many peope are doing the math and trying to figure out something. But money is not the key part. Even if NASL double the amount of money offered to the Koreans ($2000 x 2 = $4000), I still doubt that they would participate. Koreans didn't withdraw from Dreamhack, TSL 3, IEM, CPL, etc, not because those tournament provided more traveling fund or prize money than NASL, but because those did not cost them too much time and energy. People forget that you have to wake up in the very early morning for each match over the period of 3 months to fighting for the possibility of getting to the finals. It's possible that after playing in horrible conditions for 3 months, you fail to enter the finals and thus get $0. Not to mention that most of them have to prepare for and participate in GSLs and GSTL. And even if you are able to get to the finals, you get $1000 - 1500 prize money 90% of the time ( there are 16 players in the final stage and only one Champion who takes the $40,000). In a word, it is all because of the set up for NASL, i.e., the 3-month super long season. For Koreans, that would be too much of a commitment. It is neither NASL's fault nor Koreans' fault. It's just that sc2 still has a long way to go. | ||
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