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On August 13 2011 14:20 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 13:53 tdt wrote:
The koreans or those who represent them sound like a bunch of Prima donnas. I never heard any foreigners whining about this and they made way less money usually dropping out by RO16.
Sad. Have to support foreigner tournaments more from now on. Foreigners don't have to pay over a thousand dollars for plane tickets to California alone; their expenses are way lower and they have way more money in sponsorships, etc. to pay for those plane tickets. Many Korean teams are in a tough spot financially and have to pay susbstantially more to make the playoffs; the reason they're complaining and the foreign players aren't is cause their situations are completely different.
White-Ra's ticket cost 1,500 round trip, and because of the duckload.com mess, he paid it out of pocket.
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NASL failing in every way possible, somehow im not surprised. I think NASL is digging their own grave, the security deposit stuff is ridiculous.
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On August 13 2011 15:42 RedDragon571 wrote:
NASL failing in every way possible, somehow im not surprised. I think NASL is digging their own grave, the security deposit stuff is ridiculous.
What "security deposit stuff"? You mean the "security deposit stuff" that they're paying as stated in the contract that SC2Con broke? You mean how the NASL is upholding a contract that the other party grossly and flagrantly violated?
You can complain about the "security deposit stuff" on the 61st day, the day after when the NASL was required to return the deposit by. The NASL is required to return that deposit in 60 days. Not "immediately". But until that 60 days is over, there is nothing you can complain about.
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On August 13 2011 15:26 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 14:20 DystopiaX wrote:On August 13 2011 13:53 tdt wrote:
The koreans or those who represent them sound like a bunch of Prima donnas. I never heard any foreigners whining about this and they made way less money usually dropping out by RO16.
Sad. Have to support foreigner tournaments more from now on. Foreigners don't have to pay over a thousand dollars for plane tickets to California alone; their expenses are way lower and they have way more money in sponsorships, etc. to pay for those plane tickets. Many Korean teams are in a tough spot financially and have to pay susbstantially more to make the playoffs; the reason they're complaining and the foreign players aren't is cause their situations are completely different. White-Ra's ticket cost 1,500 round trip, and because of the duckload.com mess, he paid it out of pocket.
If only more people would realize this. White Ra and Sen had to pay a lot of money to get to the finals. Not every foreigner lives in LA or close to it. I'm sure all the foreign players are very happy that the stipend and 9-16th place spots are each $1,000 each.
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It's truly ridiculous for this person to expect the tournament organisers to spend a fortune on plane tickets for every single korean. In my opinion that's what teams are for. I know korean teams are small time economically compared to the big international ones but come on.
If koreans are leaving korean pro teams for international to have a chance at being in foreign tournaments at all then maybe korean teams should start working more on getting sponsors willing to supply an economical support for the team.
I don't think when EG sends half their roster to finland that they expect assembly to pay the travel expenses.
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On August 13 2011 16:13 StarBrift wrote:
It's truly ridiculous for this person to expect the tournament organisers to spend a fortune on plane tickets for every single korean. In my opinion that's what teams are for. I know korean teams are small time economically compared to the big international ones but come on.
If koreans are leaving korean pro teams for international to have a chance at being in foreign tournaments at all then maybe korean teams should start working more on getting sponsors willing to supply an economical support for the team.
I don't think when EG sends half their roster to finland that they expect assembly to pay the travel expenses.
I think this is the crux of the problem. While e-sports is certainly bigger than it was before SC2 came out, that kind of money still isn't there yet. It seems to me that the Korean teams seem to think foreigners are made of money because other tournament organizers can afford to fly people over and pay for their lodgings and such.
I don't know what MLG does for the korean players, but MLG is a much bigger organization now that they've picked up several more sponsorships and NASL is still taking its first steps. The problem is that korean team managers think they have the greatest bargaining chip (their players), but you can't squeeze blood for a stone. It's absolutely ridiculous to expect tournament organizers to spend 10,000 dollars for a six or seven korean pros when these teams should be reaching to outside sponsors like everyone else.
It's all about the money and few people have the kind of money that the korean teams are just expecting others to give them. Personally I thought NASL was being generous by subsidizing everyone's travel expenses.
Let's not forget who really suffers here, the players and the viewers. Why aren't the korean teams looking for sponsorship that can afford to send 3 or 4 players for these big tournaments? Since they have the most talented players in the world, it shouldn't be too difficult.
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On August 13 2011 16:37 Inky87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 16:13 StarBrift wrote:
It's truly ridiculous for this person to expect the tournament organisers to spend a fortune on plane tickets for every single korean. In my opinion that's what teams are for. I know korean teams are small time economically compared to the big international ones but come on.
If koreans are leaving korean pro teams for international to have a chance at being in foreign tournaments at all then maybe korean teams should start working more on getting sponsors willing to supply an economical support for the team.
I don't think when EG sends half their roster to finland that they expect assembly to pay the travel expenses. I think this is the crux of the problem. While e-sports is certainly bigger than it was before SC2 came out, that kind of money still isn't there yet. It seems to me that the Korean teams seem to think foreigners are made of money because other tournament organizers can afford to fly people over and pay for their lodgings and such. I don't know what MLG does for the korean players, but MLG is a much bigger organization now that they've picked up several more sponsorships and NASL is still taking its first steps. The problem is that korean team managers think they have the greatest bargaining chip (their players), but you can't squeeze blood for a stone. It's absolutely ridiculous to expect tournament organizers to spend 10,000 dollars for a six or seven korean pros when these teams should be reaching to outside sponsors like everyone else. It's all about the money and few people have the kind of money that the korean teams are just expecting others to give them. Personally I thought NASL was being generous by subsidizing everyone's travel expenses. Let's not forget who really suffers here, the players and the viewers. Why aren't the korean teams looking for sponsorship that can afford to send 3 or 4 players for these big tournaments? Since they have the most talented players in the world, it shouldn't be too difficult.
I couldn't agree more. I don't know the exact economic situation of any pro team but I would be willing to wager that any top korean team could pretty easily get a sponsor willing to send a few players oversees now and again for a little product placement. Maybe they need to look outside korean corporations for this but with the views the streams are getting today it seems like a bargain for any company that has young males as their primary market.
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respect to White-Ra for paying 1500 for his plane ticket out of pocket, and not making even the slightest fuss about it. Makes these Koreans seem like whiny babies.
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This still to much econ cheese from korea they are greedy shouldn't want so much NASL still payed for a lot if you want a shot at that much money.. -_-
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Well I guess NASL Season 2 won't be worth watching then. Not that Season 1 was worth watching too. Apart from the finals themselves, the rest was pretty terrible and given how much troubles the finals had from online viewer's perspective, I guess not a lot of people will be tuning in.
Oh well, I still got the GSL and MLG to look after and whatever else major pops in the way like Dreamhack and IEM will surely fill up my SC2-watching calendar.
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For all people saying that GOM does so much more for their sponsored foreigners:
Imagine NASL would offer to pay the full flight and accomodation in a cheap flat for the complete three month of a NASL season. How many Korean pros would take them up on that offer? Yeah.. thought so..
For all the people nitpicking about the 2000$ money for travel:
Yes, 1000$ of those are part of the prize money but as you get those 1000$ just for showing up, you might as well use it for the travel. Would I go to LA for a weekend if all I had to do was show up, lose a match of starcraft and then check out the country/city FOR FREE? You bet I would. I also would get up at 4 am for ten times. With the increase in travel stipend and the redistribution of the prize pool, it is a sure thing, that no player loses money in participating in the finals.
Finally for the people bitching about the deposit:
What other way is there to ensure players don't drop out the second there is no chance to qualify? Walkovers directly hurt the league and they need to be avoided.
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On August 13 2011 17:36 W2 wrote:
respect to White-Ra for paying 1500 for his plane ticket out of pocket, and not making even the slightest fuss about it. Makes these Koreans seem like whiny babies.
Not only whiny babies but unethical as well. When you sign a deal you abide by it not breach contract at the last minute as you try and put NASL over the barrel with threats of no show or pay up more than contract stipulates. That whole translation sounds weaselly IMO.
BTW - Anyone know what koreans are not bound to this cartel and will participate?
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Deposits paid back by yesterday? That's kind of odd.
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I was sceptic at first, but after reading this I'm 100% on the korean side. NASL needs the korean more than the other way around. They should have done something.
the money situation is one part, the other part is the schedule. 2am may be better than 4am to 8am but, surely it's not great. If nasl would just do replay cast none of this would be a problem (but as I said in the NASL season 2 post: nasl didn't change _any_ important point brought up in season 1, so they lost mine and lots of others interest before this. and now I'm quite sure this league is dead outside NA/the US.
Good luck for them in season 2 maybe, they start changing stuff to head in the right direction in season 3 and this league might become an international Star league - but I personally think that NASL doesn't want this in the first place, because they seem to like having not the best players in the world, but "their" players. kinda stupid I think, but that should not be my problem, since there are lots of other tournaments elsewhere
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On August 13 2011 18:07 Vei wrote:
Deposits paid back by yesterday? That's kind of odd.
Earlier in thread they were starting to be paid back on the 8th. (that's not yesterday) Nothing odds about it Koreans were probably sweating NASL with threats and whatnot to get their money before term.
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On August 13 2011 17:58 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 17:36 W2 wrote:
respect to White-Ra for paying 1500 for his plane ticket out of pocket, and not making even the slightest fuss about it. Makes these Koreans seem like whiny babies. Not only whiny babies but unethical as well. When you sign a deal you abide by it not breach contract at the last minute as you try and put NASL over the barrel with threats of no show or pay up more than contract stipulates. That whole translation sounds weaselly IMO. BTW - Anyone know what koreans are not bound to this cartel and will participate?
I doubt that if NASL doesn't budge that a Korean team would stop a player from participating on their own just because on the whole they don't agree with NASL. In the end though it is funny, because if you've won anything in Korea that 1,500 (if you think you can win) is actually a wise investment.
16 Man Field
3 Days
1500 cost Travel + Board
Possible 50k First
And several decent runner up cash prizes
Travel Stipend + 1k?
Almost the equivalent of losing 3 days for the possibility of winning 50k in a relatively limited field of players.
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On August 13 2011 18:20 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 17:58 tdt wrote:On August 13 2011 17:36 W2 wrote:
respect to White-Ra for paying 1500 for his plane ticket out of pocket, and not making even the slightest fuss about it. Makes these Koreans seem like whiny babies. Not only whiny babies but unethical as well. When you sign a deal you abide by it not breach contract at the last minute as you try and put NASL over the barrel with threats of no show or pay up more than contract stipulates. That whole translation sounds weaselly IMO. BTW - Anyone know what koreans are not bound to this cartel and will participate? I doubt that if NASL doesn't budge that a Korean team would stop a player from participating on their own just because on the whole they don't agree with NASL. In the end though it is funny, because if you've won anything in Korea that 1,500 (if you think you can win) is actually a wise investment. 16 Man Field 3 Days 1500 cost Travel + Board Possible 50k First And several decent runner up cash prizes Travel Stipend + 1k? Almost the equivalent of losing 3 days for the possibility of winning 50k in a relatively limited field of players.
Yes I don't even understand NASL paying anything with 100K up for grabs. Every solo event I know of players pay their way. Tennis to boxing. But whatever. $1500 is generous.
As far as players being able to go out on thier own. I seriously doubt it without blessing from their team who they have a contract with. I have a feeling contracts would mean something to Koreans then if a player like MC decided to buck this ruling and go it alone.
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On August 13 2011 15:42 RedDragon571 wrote:
NASL failing in every way possible, somehow im not surprised. I think NASL is digging their own grave, the security deposit stuff is ridiculous.
i wonder how did you draw that conclusion from this OP
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On August 13 2011 18:07 Tofugrinder wrote:
Good luck for them in season 2 maybe, they start changing stuff to head in the right direction in season 3 and this league might become an international Star league - but I personally think that NASL doesn't want this in the first place, because they seem to like having not the best players in the world, but "their" players. kinda stupid I think, but that should not be my problem, since there are lots of other tournaments elsewhere
This is how it was since the league was announced. All the barriers of entry pointed towards, "We don't want any dark horses or Koreans in our league." The only reason we saw them at all is due to community support for the effort, but NASL still drag their feet on the matter. It's hard to believe that 2 am for a START TIME can be considered "accommodating" for any player, or that travel expenses being spread evenly for all contestants can actually be considered fair. I would gladly watch a tournament with $40,000 first prize over $50,000 if it meant watching the best face off against one another. I don't care if they're Canadian, Korean, Czech, or from the goddamn north pole, traveling should not be a concern for championship rounds.
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Well, it sucks, i think we can agree on that. And the fact, that they are not comming will mean im not gonna watch the NASL. I presume alot will do the same, which is actully the really bad part in this mess.
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EPT
