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I have a few thoughts on the aforementioned article (thanks for the rough translation though :D )
First off: this isn't Korea.
They shouldn't be expecting the same thing they got over there. They should know that this league was new and that they have a chance to help eSports with their attendance, instead of screwing it over.
Second, if they felt they were treated badly, they should also recognize that this league is NEW. There will be issues at first. I doubt the Korean leagues were perfect in their first season, yet people are holding NASL to an impossible standard. The U.S. is also in a recession some of those employees that are doing the mistreating of players might be temporary workers that are only working because they are desperate for a paycheck, not because they care about video games, the 'celebrities' or whatever.
Also, to the people who say that NASL should have a backup plan because we do not know if they were in 'locked' agreement to show up, how the hell do you have a backup plan for a sport when a team doesn't want to play? If the Red Sox just decide it's not worth their time to play the Yankees, you can't just import some random team to play the best players in baseball. The MLB would sue/fine every single player/staff person for failing to honor their contract (to play). How is it you expect NASL to achieve something that not even billion dollar professional sports can do? You can't have a string of alternate players in place just in case a team bows out. That's why contracts were signed by the Korean teams before NASL, which they decided they didn't like suddenly.
If they want to complain about costs, ask them how much it costs for them to travel to their tournaments in Korea, then compare the costs it takes for a single person to attend all 6-7 rounds of MLG. The total cost of, as well as time, travelling to 6-7 cities spread all over the country, in aggregate, far exceeds the cost of a single Korean coming over to the U.S.
Speaking of paying bills and costs......how is it that StarCraft is the national past time in Korea and yet sponsors aren't leaping out of their chairs to get their name on advertising at these events and to fund teams or sponsor players?
If you are a professional athlete in this country, advertisers are dying, literally, for you wear their logo, use their products or promote their services. Liquid'Tyler just recently got sponsored by a chewing gum company!!!! What the hell does chewing gum have to do with anything even tangentially related to ProGaming?
Also their complaint about having to get up at 4am for the online qualifiers and such....if you don't like the schedule, THEN DON'T PARTICIPATE! No one is forcing them to participate. They signed a contract stating that they would do it and now they have to do it. It's that simple. You obey your obligations and do it without complaining. If you don't like it, don't sign up for it next time around.
If there is some fact that I'm missing that undermines my above logic, I'm open to hearing about it. I just feel that Korean's are acting somewhat childishly and are trying to dodge their contractual obligations simply because they don't want to.
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This is NOT an OFFICIAL statement.
<스타크래프트 2> 해외 커뮤니티가 한국 선수들의 North American Star League(이하 NASL) 시즌2 불참 소식으로 시끄럽다.
NASL은 팀리퀴드에 올린 글을 통해 많은 시간을 노력했지만 유감스럽게도 한국 팀들이 NASL에 참가하지 못하게 됐다는 사실을 알렸고, 불참을 선택한 한국의 협의회(스 타크래프트 2 협의회)에게 실망이라는 내용을 게재했다.
이 로 인해 해외 팬들과 일부 국내 팬들은 불참을 결정한 한국 게임단과 선수들을 비난하고 있다. 하 지만 이는 본질이 왜곡된 내용이며 NASL의 일방적인 주장에 불과하다.
결 론부터 말하면 NASL은 한국 선수들을 자신들의 돈벌이에 이용했고, 한국 선수들이 출전을 거부하자 이에 앙심을 품고 있는 것에 불과하다.
구 체적인 내용을 통해 한국 선수들이 NASL에 불참하게 된 이유를 설명한다. 먼저 NASL은 대회 출전을 위한 보증금 지급을 요구했다. NASL은 지난 4월 중순부터 6월 중순까지 2개월 동안 온라인으로 조별 풀리그를 진행하면서 출전 선수들에게 1인당 250달러(한화 약 27만원)를 받았다.
보 증금은 대회가 진행된 이후 돌려줄 것이라고 했지만 대회에 출전한 선수들은 아직까지도 보증금을 돌려받지 못하고 있는 상태다. NASL은 여기에서 그치지 않고 시즌2부터 는 보증금을 1인당 500달러(한화 약 54만)로 2배나 올렸다.
초 창기 <스타크래프트>가 출시됐을 때 PC방에서 진행하던 이벤트 대회도 출전 선수들에게 돈을 받지는 않았다. 하물며 프로 선수가 출전하는 대회가 선수들에게 보증금을 요구한다는 것 자체가 상식적으로 이해가 되지 않는 행태다.
두 번째 NASL 출전 선수에 대한 배려다. 한 국 선수들은 NASL 시즌1에 임요환(슬레이어스), 장재호(폭스), 장민철, 이윤열(이상 oGs) 등 정상급 선수가 10명이나 출전했다. 하지만 이들이 온라인 방송을 진행하는 현지 시간에 맞춰 경기를 치르느라 새벽같이 일어나 경기에 임했다. 이로 인해 선수들은 최악의 컨디션에서 경기를 치러야 했고, 이마저도 정해진 일정이 변경되면서 제대로 치러지지 않는 경우까지 발생했다.
NASL에 출전했던 선수들은 비슷한 시기에 경기를 진행한 TSL3과 비교해 NASL의 경기 진행 방식에 대해 불만을 표하기도 했다. 게다가 온라인 대회 진행인 관계로 매 경기 렉(지연 현상)도 심했다.
미 국 현지에서 진행된 그랜드파이널의 경우는 더욱 엉망이었다. 선수들은 미국으로 이동하는 비행기와 숙박, 식사 등 모든 비용을 본인이 직접 해결해야 했다. NASL 측은 그랜드파이널에 출전하는 선수들을 위해 1인 당 500달러씩 제공하겠다고 이야기했지만 출전에 필요한 경비의 절반에도 미치지 못한다. 이에 일부 선수들은 자신의 대회 상금에서 공제하기로 약속하고 나서야 비행기표와 숙소를 해결할 수 있었다.
또한, NASL은 LA공항에 도착한 한국 선수들이 대회가 열리는 현장으로 이동하는 과정에서 80달러의 픽업 비용을 받은 것으로 확인됐다.
그들은 NASL 온라인 방송을 유료(저화질은 무료)로 서비스하면서 막대한 이익을 얻었음에도 자신들의 수익을 위해 최고의 콘텐츠를 제공한 선수들은 홀대한 셈이다.
이에 한국의 게임단과 선수들은 NASL 측 에 보증금을 없앨 것과 그랜드파이널 참가를 위한 항공, 숙박, 체제 비용의 제공을 요구했지만 거절당했다.
NASL은 공지를 통해 1인당 그랜드파이널 출전 비용으로 이전의 2배 인 1천 달러(한화 약 108만원)를 지급하겠다고 했으나 이는 미국행 비행기표를 구입하기도 부족한 금액이다. 또한, 체 류 비용 1천 달러를 포함해 2천 달러(한화 약 216만원)를 분배하겠다고 최종적으로 제안했지만 확인 결과 이는 대회의 우승 상금을 삭감하고 지급하기로 한 것으로, 결국 선수들에게 지급해야 할 금액을 조정해서 위기를 면하기 위한 ‘조삼모사’에 불과했다.
최근 한국 선수들이 잇따라 해외 팀으로 이적하고 있고 다수의 해외 대회에 출전하고 있다. 하지만 이에 대한 보다 신중한 접근이 필요하다. NASL의 경우와 마찬가지로 한국 선수들은 최상의 콘텐츠를 공급할 수 있는 좋은 돈벌이 수단이다. 그러나 그들은 한국 선수들을 자신들의 돈벌이에 이용하면서 정당한 대가를 지불하지도 않는다.
곰TV는 한국 선수들의 해외 진출과 해외 우수 선수들의 한국 활동을 위해 다양한 연계 프로그램을 실시하고 있다. MLG 콜럼버스, MLG 애너하임에 이어 MLG 롤리를 진행하는 MLG가 대표적이며 8월 중순에는 IEM도 열릴 예정이다.
선수들에게 해외 대회 출전은 보다 넓은 세상을 경험하고 해외의 우수한 선수들과 승부를 겨룰 수 있는 좋은 기회임에 틀림없다. 그렇지만 본인이 프로라는 사실을 잊지 말고 아마추어 같은 대회는 과감하게 출전을 포기하는 결단이 필요하다.
NASL은 올 초 시즌1 10만 달러(한화 약 1억 800만원), 시즌2 10만 달러, 시 즌3 20만 달러(한화 약 2억 1천 600만원) 등 총 상금 40만 달러(한화 약 4억 3천 200만원)를 걸고 세계 최상위 클래스의 <스타크래 프트 2> 선수들을 초청해 대회를 만들겠다고 밝혔다. 하지만 지금까지 보여준 그들의 행태는 세계 최고의 선수들을 활용해 ‘재주는 선수들이 부리고 돈은 NASL이 벌겠다’는 잔꾀에 지나지 않다.
마 지막으로 NASL은 지금이라도 대회 운영을 포기하던지, 세계 최고의 선수들이 출전하는 위상에 걸맞은 모습과 대회 운영을 보여주길 바란다.
한 편, NASL 시즌1에 출전한 선수들의 보증금은 아직까지 지급되지 않았고, 상금 역시 지급되지 않았다. 또한, 한국 게임단은 최근 FXOpen과 병합한 FXOKorea를 제외하고 모든 팀과 선수들이 NASL 시즌2에 출전하지 않기로 결정했다.
Its been recognized, that foreign community talks about Korean players not playing in North American Star League (Known as NASL) Season 2.
The post, written by NASL.tv, said that they spend lots of time to meet an agreement, but they failed to do so, and Korean Teams decide not to play in NASL, and in post written by NASL.tv, NASL said that they were very disappointed to SC2Con.
Because of this, a lot of foreign fans, and Korean fans start blaming on Korean progaming team and Players, but in reality this is very falsified and NASL trying to hide the reality.
In Truth, NASL used Korean players as tool to make more money, and being vindictive about players not participating in Tournament
They (GOM and SC2Con) explained why Koreans do NOT participate in NASL.
First of all, NASL asked security Deposit. Starting mid April to mid May, (about 2 month) during online premid leagues, they gathered about 250$ per each players.
Although NASL.tv said that they will pay security deposit money back, players didn't get their money back. Also, NASL.tv raised security deposit money twice of last season to 500$, compare to last season (250$)
When Starcraft:Brood War first came out, even small LAN events done in internet cafe, they didn't have entry fee, yet huge league where all progamers attending asking for security deposit is abusive.
Secondly, players had hard time playing in NASL. In the first NASL Season, top Korean players like Boxer, moon, nada played in NASL. However, because of live cast, players had to wake about 4am every time there was tournament match - which caused players to be in low concentration and tiredness. Also, there were some case where schedule changed, and they did not play.
Players who played in NASL thought that way that TSL3 scheduled matches were supportive for Players than the way NASL did. Not only schedule time was very difficult for players to play, but also since it was Online tournament, every games had delays. (high latency)
Grandfinal in US was even more disturbing. Players had to play from their own expenses in order to go States (Flight ticket, Hotel, Food). NASL.tv said that for each player, who is going to States, they will support with 500$ US, but it was not even half amount of travel expenses. So some players promised to pay their expenses from money that they will win after the tournament, borrowed money from NASL; then, had barely enough money for flight ticket and hotel.
Also we checked NASL get $80 for pickup fees to drive LA airport through the convention center.
Even though NASL made a lot of profits throughout HQ (LQ was free), for their own profits, they were neglected about players.
Thus, Korean pro gaming teams and players asked NASL to reduce or delete security deposit money and support travel expenses, but got refused.
NASL.tv said (throughout bulletin) for each players who will be playing in GrandFinal, they will going to support with 1000$ US, compare to Season 1 of 500$, but 1000$ is not even enough for flight ticket to United States. Also, they said, including 1000$ travel expenses, they will pay extra 2000$, but apparently NASL.tv decide to reduce price pool in order to give extra travel expenses. (Eventually providing players about same amount of money)
Nowadays, many Korean players decide to step outside of Korea and join foreign team, and play in foreign tournament. However, we need to be careful about this. Tournament like NASL show the case that Korean players can show high level of game play, attracting lots of people; However, they only use Korean players as tool to make more money and attract viewers.
GomTV is proposing many new ideas in order to keep foreign team, players active in Korea and help Korean players to play outside of Korea. MLG columbus, MLG anaheim, MLG event is one of the example of GomTV stepping outside of Korea, and there will be IEM tournament at mid-august.
Of course, its very good opportunities for players to play in foreign tournament which will give them chances to play against good foreign players and experience foreign community, but it is important to not forget that they are 'pro' gamers and not participate in amateur tournament. (NOTE: It is very important to not take this word in offensive behaviour. He used Amateur term, but it refers to Tournaments which is not very supportive and doesnt care about players, focusing a lot more in making money. Koreans are not being arrogant, rather they believe NASL is being amateur league that doesnt think or care about players but just hope to make profits out of it.)
NASL said in beginning of the year that first season will 100,000$, second season 100,000$, and third season for 200,000$, total of 400,000$ and have all top class players to play in Tournament. However, from what they have shown, all their desire is use players as tool to attract more people and eventually making more money for NASL.tv.
Finally I hope (reporter) NASL stop Tournaments, or supports players better, and be better in tournament operating.
On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didn't get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL .
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This is exactly what I was expecting. Koreans are lieing now about things. Ill will from the Puma deal affecting their decisions on the american scene as a whole.
If they don't want our money they don't have to take it.
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To be totally honest, the korean teams/players sound like spoiled little brats with the attitude they have taken with NASL. Expecting a tournament to pay for plane tickets, loodging, travel stateside, meals....like your some kind of prince, is pretty arrogant.
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699 Posts
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP.
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I dont know which side is telling the truth, I hope some foreign players decide to step up and speak out loud. To be Honest, I dont see why SC2Con and Korean teams will not play in NASL if they can make money out of it. They arent retards who doesnt know how to count.
I really wish I can know the truth behind this, one side is definitely lying.
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Although NASL.tv said that they will pay security deposit money back, players didn't get their money back. Also, NASL.tv raised security deposit money twice of last season to 500$, compare to last season (250$
Probably didn't get it back because of what NASL mentioned about taking the money they spent to buy tickets for the koreans etc. Which wasn't part of the original agreement.
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If this statement corresponds to sc2con's official stance, I've just lost a lot of respect for their korean teams (or at least their management). This all seems incredibly retarded, so I want to believe it's only the view of a single guy...
I also wonder how much of this situation is actually due to korean's limited english understanding. I'm almost certain that they don't get a lot of the nuances both in the contracts they sign and in the communications with NASL. A proper professional translator could maybe help both parties?
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On August 13 2011 01:56 Nerski wrote:Show nested quote +Although NASL.tv said that they will pay security deposit money back, players didn't get their money back. Also, NASL.tv raised security deposit money twice of last season to 500$, compare to last season (250$ Probably didn't get it back because of what NASL mentioned about taking the money they spent to buy tickets for the koreans etc. Which wasn't part of the original agreement.
I cant speak up since I dont know situation behind this. (im pretty sure there is a lot more than what we know) but having not paid until now? Hmmm I dont know about that. Its been while since there was Tournament right?
Unless there was 'agreement' its something to be blame. Of course if players did agree and NASL said they will pay money in certain date (sometime near future), there is no problem with that, but as of now, with my very limited info, its not right.
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On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP.
I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean?
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On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean?
I think he was referring to the article in the very first post in this thread.
You're re-translated article does, in fact, sound much more harsh (and much clearer, too, thank you!) than the originally translated article which, as the original poster stated, was a rough translation.
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United States33085 Posts
better translation being moved to OP
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On August 13 2011 02:05 DjSpectre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean? I think he was referring to the article in the very first post in this thread. You're re-translated article does, in fact, sound much more harsh (and much clearer, too, thank you!) than the originally translated article which, as the original poster stated, was a rough translation.
I will just summarize it.
1/ SC2Con feel like players were struggling to play in NASL, and travel expenses for grand final is too expensive for them, so they decide to quit.
2/ NASL did not pay travel expenses and security deposit yet, showing that they are very disorganized.
3/ Teams agreed to not play in NASL, so SC2Con came up with idea.
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On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean?
I don't think he means your translation is wrong  but the facts in the original article
Edit: Oops, too late.
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United States33085 Posts
On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean?
he means that the original writer of the article has even more incorrect statements about NASL in the more complete translation
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On August 13 2011 01:48 BaekHo wrote:
Of course, its very good opportunities for players to play in foreign tournament which will give them chances to play against good foreign players and experience foreign community, but it is important to not forget that they are 'pro' gamers and not participate in amateur tournament. (NOTE: Although this sound offensive, i believe he meant amateur tournament as NOT skill wise, he doesn't seem to think foreign players are scrubs, he thinks that amateur tournament are those who doesn't provide player's environment very well)
This is why they should have hired competent employees instead of hiring their friends for jobs they are not qualified to do.
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On August 13 2011 02:09 BaekHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:05 DjSpectre wrote:On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean? I think he was referring to the article in the very first post in this thread. You're re-translated article does, in fact, sound much more harsh (and much clearer, too, thank you!) than the originally translated article which, as the original poster stated, was a rough translation. I will just summarize it. 1/ SC2Con feel like players were struggling to play in NASL, and travel expenses for grand final is too expensive for them, so they decide to quit. 2/ NASL did not pay travel expenses and security deposit yet, showing that they are very disorganized.3/ Teams agreed to not play in NASL, so SC2Con came up with idea.
The statement I highlighted in bold makes me LOL. Both the SC2Con teams and NASL are contradicting each other on this. However, this is something VERY easily proved one way or another (bank receipts). Looks like someone is going to get embarrassed... So, who's lying or extremely disorganised???
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On August 13 2011 02:12 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean? he means that the original writer of the article has even more incorrect statements about NASL in the more complete translation
Im editing my post few times hope my 'fixed' post also apply to OP
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I do not understand all the " Oh yeah come to america and steal 50k" stuff. Only one player gets that. Try this from the korean perspective, wake up at 2 in the morning once a week for three months while playing with a good amount of lag while still practicing with your teamates on a regular basis is a really hard thing to do. I know the next reply to this post will be how they are not trying hard enough and shit, but the truth is that NASL is really not financially supportable even in round of 8, right now a plane ticket from incheon in'tl lowest is around 2.3k (airfare fluxuates between holidays and normal days), and then you add in hotel fees for three days, which can be anything from around 150-280 bucks per night, so 450-840 bucks, not including transportation fees depending how far you are away from the airport to hotel and hotel to convention center( I doubt koreans have to pay), then if you bomb out on ro16 you wil end up in the negatives when coming back, korean sponsorships do not pay so much I hear, if you noticed the only times that koreans did come to a foreigner lan event is when they were sponsored (with the exception on NASL s1 and the previous dreamhack).
You might say "WELL RETARD WHY DO FOREIGNER TEAMS SEND PLAYERS THERE, FXO SENT THEIR WHOLE TEAM AND BOUGHT ANOTHER TEAM TOO, LOOK AT TEAMLIQUID..." Okay. First, FXO is a big time investment company with somebody deep inside the esports scene who is willing to throw money around, teamliquid is supported by a smalltime mac software producer (which the owner graciously pulls out several thousand bucks to help TL) and recently razer, which we all know, and lastly they have a partnership with oGs who graciously lends them their teamhouse for food and a space to live in.. EG, only supported three (or two) players max at one time which was in the GSL3 qualifiers, and several seasons after, IdrA pulled out of korea due to the fact that he,thought it was too stressful. Korean sponsorships are much smaller, even with large companies like zowie, coca cola, googims (i saw a lot of people wearing their shirts in korea), EXR (the quality of their shirts are a bit short of amazing), they are only really willing to sponsor gear, really nice jerseys and drinks. The most they would do is sponsor hotels and transportation, and they would leave the airfare to you, and even a small salary to select players (g.skill), but still It doesnt make sense to go to a place where you will pretty much loose more money than you ended up with. Keep in mind, only oneplayer gets 50k, another gets 25k, and another gets 10k. The others end up with codea prize money without the code s advancement.
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Players that require the travel stipend will have EARNED the right to attend the Grand Finals of NASL. Some of them (Koreans and Europeans) will have to travel very far to get there. Also, this is where NASL gets most of their viewership and money from. There are only SIXTEEN players in the Grand Finals. With the ability to pay out $100000, how hard is it to have a travel stipend at maximum of $2000, and keep the prize pool the same? With S3, apparently they will be going for $250000 prize pool or something like that, so the ability is clearly there. The players who attend the NASL Grand Finals already have played through tough hours depending on their location, for 3 months. They are the players that will be getting NASL the most exposure. Treat them as such. I agree with the decision to not attend. For being a "major eSports" event, they are being stingy to their BEST players (not Korean, but the players who make up the Grand Finals), when they clearly have the resources to help all 16 players. ($32000 maximum...)
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EPT
