EPTI guess all I can say is EGPuMa hwaighting!
TiG Opinion Article on NASL Situation - Page 13
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Tortious_Tortoise
United States944 Posts
I guess all I can say is EGPuMa hwaighting! | ||
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thehitman
1105 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:02 AdamBanks wrote: NASL has made questionable decisions since it started. I'll gladly stop posting about it for now but it doesnt change the fact that they are losing MONEY from the many people such as myself who, in the past, were thinking about supporting season 2. Hey man I don't like NASL as well. I thought season one was very amateurish, they made the later series very complicated and way too long, but it doesn't mean the Koreans are right on this. If anything I would pull the contracts and sue the Koreans for breaching the terms of the contract. Why did they sign the contracts in the first place? If it was too much for them, then why quality and now ruin a tournament? Plus NASL still has the NA, Canadians, Europeans and people from other countries. But yeah, if I was NASL I would totally sue the Koreans for breaching their contracts and causing financial and production damages! | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:05 mbr2321 wrote: I think Korea thinks they deserve more than the foreign community insofar as special treatment. They have 4 token Swedes in the GSL, sure, but it's wrong for them to demand a full-expenses paid trip to LA for the grand finals. They should be happy they have the opportunity to compete for this kind of money. NASL grand finals winner gets about the same amount of money as Code S champion, so it's a little ridiculous that KR is throwing a hissy fit over $250 deposits and ~$1k travel expenses. Even East-Coast American and European players will pay the travel expenses to the Grand finals. The best part is that NASL tried to accommodate the demands of the Koreans, but, again, they decided they were too good for NASL. I guess all I can say is EGPuMa hwaighting! If you don't have the money to send players abroad as a team, you don't have the money. It's that simple. Foreign team seem to be much more stable, financially speaking, then the korean teams, and they have sponsors that care about exposure at events like these, unlike the korean teams. This is also why the SK/Complexity deals are taking place. Korean teams (and Gom) are betting on a real korean scene, and it's just not there yet. Keep in mind we've only heard one side of the story so far. If the sc2con comes with a press statement saying that they decided to pull their players out, because they wouldn't be able to send them to the eventual finals if they qualified, I'd be perfectly capable of understanding that. The NASL might simply not be economically viable for koreans to participate comfortably in. All of that doesn't change that this sc2con organisation seems dodgy as hell, and that it's just stupid of them to issue blanket statements like this for all their players and all their teams. If, for example, MC wanted to play after all and his team (or he himself) were willing to cover the costs, he should be able to. The same goes for any korean pro that's part of a sc2con team and is capable of financing it somehow. | ||
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.Mystic
Canada486 Posts
I still don't understand why a deposit is needed in sc2 tournament... Remember NASL is 10 weeks, i quit watching after the first week. Ask yourself, after playing 10 weeks in an online tournament would you want to pay travel expenses if you made the ro16/32 whichever one they use, unless sponsors pay for it. | ||
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On August 12 2011 23:15 thehitman wrote: Hey man I don't like NASL as well. I thought season one was very amateurish, they made the later series very complicated and way too long, but it doesn't mean the Koreans are right on this. If anything I would pull the contracts and sue the Koreans for breaching the terms of the contract. Why did they sign the contracts in the first place? If it was too much for them, then why quality and now ruin a tournament? Plus NASL still has the NA, Canadians, Europeans and people from other countries. But yeah, if I was NASL I would totally sue the Koreans for breaching their contracts and causing financial and production damages! Read the topic. They didn't sign any contracts for Season 2. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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epik640x
United States1134 Posts
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
1) Regarding security deposits...NASL is still within the time frame to deliver them, and is paying them back. They listed people who could vouch that. 60 days is a fairly short time period for a lot of tournaments, including non-SC2 ones. I'm sure the Koreans, having vast experience in tourneys, are aware of this. 2) Regarding the $80...was that 80 charged to their costs that NASL was covering or did they actually force Korean players to open their pocket books and pay the $80? I doubt the latter. I believe all players were flown in, which means EU and NA players were too, and none of them said anything like that. They all seem really happy about the NASL and happy to return. The Koreans got additional special treatment in comparison to EU players, so I don't think their opinion strays *too* far from the EU players' opinion. 3) As for the hours and server, I remember Xeris saying somewhere that, that would be changed for season 2. It doesn't seem to have been a negotiating point at all. And if it was, it doesn't make sense to bring those up and then ask for more money...it makes more sense to ask for better times and to play on Korean servers. I think this reporter is making an assumption that, that wasn't changed for season 2, and instead is using the complaints about season 1 as a way to pretend he is aware of the situation. --------------- Basically I would take this article with a bigger grain of salt. I don't think NASL would outright lie about anything they've said, they invited the SC2Con to respond. I think this article, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be in a position where they have insider info and doesn't seem to understand the situation at all. | ||
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Klaent
Sweden374 Posts
Maybe in a couple of seasons NASL has picked up some huge sponsors so they can for everybody comming to the finals. | ||
NASL.tv
699 Posts
They told that they will pay back it but still players who join the tournament didn't get it. NASL also require more deposit($500) in the next season 1) Our contract states that all prizes//stipend//deposit will be paid and refunded within 60 days of the tournament finish. This contract was signed by every Korean team manager and player that played in Season 1. Further, we have already paid back all the security deposits of Korean teams for Season 1, in addition to the deposits of players who were slated not to return for Season 2. If anyone doubts this claim -- feel free to contact Artosis, Grubby, Liquid (who paid for the oGs Season 1 deposit), HuK (who paid for Boxer's deposit), Rainbow (who paid his own deposit), and WeMadeFox. As of yesterday, all these payments were completed, which is still 1 month within our target deadline to send all payments. Second there were no care about Korean players who join the NASL. Korean top player like Boxer, moon, mc, Nada but they should overcome the parallax and they had terrible condiction to play game and schedule was changed and it made things worse. 2) The Korean players were made very well aware of our schedule before Season 1. Players were expected to wake up once per week to play a match at 4-8am. The schedule for Season 2 was even slightly adjusted to make it more bearable for Korean players, with games starting at 2am KST (which we gathered from talking to some Korean players, was a more reasonable time). The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging 3) This is completely false. The Korean teams expressed difficulty in attending the Grand Finals, so we offered to buy their tickets for them, and reserve their hotels for them, and arrange shuttle service for them. We spent $1,192 for each of the tickets we bought for Korean players (MC, Zenio, Squirtle, PuMa). Each hotel room cost $350, and the shuttle service to and from LAX airport averaged out to approximately $80 per players. We wrote, and had the letter translated into Korean, that we would be happy to do this for them to solve the problem of attending, and then deduct this from their travel stipends and prize. The four players who we bought tickets for expressly agreed to this. Moon, Boxer, July, and aLive made separate travel arrangements. Even they get huge benifits to their online bordcasting but they didn't treated well who play in the NASL. 4) Benefit is always two ways. Hosting a league such as this is a mutually beneficial relationship. The league benefits by having the players play, and the players benefit by the amount of exposure playing gives them. Leagues such as the NASL, GSL, and MLG are the avenues in which players can compete and make their names known to the world. We absolutely love interacting with the Korean players and having them play in our league. We put serious strains on our budget, not only in Season 1, but moving forward in Season 2, to try to accommodate the Koreans so that they can play in our league. We hate to see them withdrawing and this is the last thing we want. So Korean teams and player require to NASL to remove the deposit and solve the problem about airplane tickets and lodging but they didn't accecpted it 5) We have offered $2,000 per player to attend the finals. We've offered a deal already where we would pay for flights, hotel, and travel (with those fees deducted from earning). | ||
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Deshkar
Singapore1244 Posts
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:52 bearhug wrote: I find that most people think that the Koreans are not satisfied with the amount of money NASL provide for their traveling. Many peope are doing the math and trying to figure out something. But money is not the key part. Even if NASL double the amount of money offered to the Koreans ($2000 x 2 = $4000), I still doubt that they would participate. Koreans didn't withdraw from Dreamhack, TSL 3, IEM, CPL, etc, not because those tournament provided more traveling fund or prize money than NASL, but because those did not cost them too much time and energy. People forget that you have to wake up in the very early morning for each match over the period of 3 months to fighting for the possibility of getting to the finals. It's possible that after playing in horrible conditions for 3 months, you fail to enter the finals and thus get $0. Not to mention that most of them have to prepare for and participate in GSLs and GSTL. And even if you are able to get to the finals, you get $1000 - 1500 prize money 90% of the time ( there are 16 players in the final stage and only one Champion who takes the $40,000). In a word, it is all because of the set up for NASL, i.e., the 3-month super long season. For Koreans, that would be too much of a commitment. It is neither NASL's fault nor Koreans' fault. It's just that sc2 still has a long way to go. How do you know this hasn't been resolved in season 2, as it might have been since NASL reps said they would work to resolve the issue? I think if this was the issue, the sc2con would have asked to have the times changed, not ask for more money. The issue of players not being able to play well because of bad hours isn't resolved by throwing money at the situation. Also, it seems like Boxer and Nada withdrew because of the hours, yet the rest of the players didn't make the resignations and continued to express a desire to join NASL. Some players are better than others at working at all hours of the night. I'm sure they would all love to play at convenient hours, but I think many also understand that with such a big difference between California and Korea it's not always possible. One thing the NASL did do is offer to reschedule games, so if a player could not stay awake because of something they had to do the next day, all they had to do was make a request before their match. Because of that, I don't think this was a CENTRAL issue to the debate. It might have been in the back of people's minds, but I doubt it was a big reason for this situation. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 13 2011 00:06 NASL.tv wrote: Thank you for clarifying. I had a feeling that the article was feigning having inside information, and didn't have the facts. This makes a lot more sense, and I feel like the Koreans are not siding with the points brought up in the article at all. | ||
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Sleight
2471 Posts
Are people really so blinded by their dislike of iNc (who doesn't run and is not involved with NASL anymore beyond as a player) that they can't consider NASL for what it has done? You mean one of the best Finals events anyone anywhere has had? Wayyyy better quality games than GSL finals and at least equal to TSL (I thought the Grand Finals was even better). NASL made very generous offers, as far as I am concerned as a former professional gamer who never had deals half so nice, and the Koreans found them unacceptable. Nuff said. NASL didn't deserve it, Koreans aren't destroying Esports. This stuff happens. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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