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On August 13 2011 02:35 bucckevin wrote:
OK. From NASL.tv's response. They said they paid in full for flight, hotel, etc cost but then at the end, they say the cost will be deducted from the stipends and prize won money. Why do you even bother to say you paid for it? It's more like an advancement. I can understand why the Koreans don't want to bother with this tournament. Pay to play for 3 months for a chance to play in the finals. Once you get to the finals, if you don't make it far, you will break even or maybe lose a little money. The Koreans just don't think the time spent and reward is enough for them to participate. That's their decision and I think that's fine. The only problem should be when they decided to pull out.
That's pretty much what the NASL said.
While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season.
I kinda don't get why there's so much controversy surrounding the actual decision rather than the timing, too.
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On August 13 2011 02:27 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:19 NASL.tv wrote:On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean? I don't mean your translation is incorrect, sorry. I mean to say that what they're saying is not only wrong, but is slanderous. To claim that we earned a lot of profit and don't give back to the players is totally wrong. We increased our support of players. Raising the travel stipend is not just for Koreans, it's for every player in the league. This is an additional $8,000 we procured for players. NASL isn't obliged to raise support as the conditions were stated before the contract was signed. There are people even arguing whether NASL is doing enough / not doing enough. All these are moot points ( a moot point is something that can be argued one way or another but the outcome of it is not relevant to the discussion).
The crux of the matter, and it's quite simple to establish who's wrong or right. Did the SC2Con teams sign the season 2 contract?
I also think that the bolded question is the important part.
If Koreans did sign the contract, it is really a bad decision for them to withdraw at this point of time.
If they didn't sign the contract yet, it suggests that they were still negotiating and the decision to withdraw does make some sense.
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Ugh. Guys, look at the timestamp on the payment record before running your mouth. Yes it was paid, but on August 8th. Meaning due to timezones it probably was the 9th when they noticed in Korea. This is also AFTER they had already started filming season 2.
So, timing of this article aside, it's an opinion piece after all. They HAD NOT been paid while they were discussing if they were to continue with season 2 or not. If it was your money and you haven't had your security deposit returned by the time you need to pay your next one, how comfortable would you feel about it?
Not that I'm trying to point fingers at NASL and say it's all their fault. There is already way way too much banwagoning going on in the thread. However, dealing with money there is a certain level of professionalism people like to try and expect. Just because you are legally required to have it done in 2 months, doesn't mean it should be procrastinated until that point. Again, how fun would it be if your banks did that?
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Did you Pay ALL the money to All players not just winner of NASL?
I fix after reading big1 's post. I c so it was misunderstanding after all.
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I really hope that moderator can Fix my old post for new one.. I fixed some of it.
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Not all the money was returned as of the time the Koreans made their decision. This is a fact is it not?
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I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly.
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So... how much money exactly do the Koreans think NASL is making? I have a VERY hard time believing they're rolling in the cash with the prize pool they're offering. I mean, I know MLG's prizes are embarrassingly low, but NASL still paid out ten times what MLG did to the winner, and that's pretty huge for a brand new league/event. It seems to me like their budget must be very tight, and the Koreans asking for many thousands of dollars extra to get their travel expenses covered is just ridiculous.
Is the position they're going to take that if foreign tournaments want their attendance, they must fund everything themselves? That seems remarkably short sighted. Some of the team managers over there must know the value of international exposure for sponsorships, especially for a player like DRG who knows some English. Guys like White-Ra get fans by embracing the community and attending everything, and the Koreans seem like they believe they're doing foreigners a charity by attending.
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On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly.
This is my personal Thought as well.
By the Way I just read post in Korean community website, procedure in NASL said they will pay security deposite back in 60 days (and its been about a month since NASL finished), and GSL pay players money after one month, so it was misunderstanding.
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On August 13 2011 02:42 thebig1 wrote:
Ugh. Guys, look at the timestamp on the payment record before running your mouth. Yes it was paid, but on August 8th. Meaning due to timezones it probably was the 9th when they noticed in Korea. This is also AFTER they had already started filming season 2.
So, timing of this article aside, it's an opinion piece after all. They HAD NOT been paid while they were discussing if they were to continue with season 2 or not. If it was your money and you haven't had your security deposit returned by the time you need to pay your next one, how comfortable would you feel about it?
Not that I'm trying to point fingers at NASL and say it's all their fault. There is already way way too much banwagoning going on in the thread. However, dealing with money there is a certain level of professionalism people like to try and expect. Just because you are legally required to have it done in 2 months, doesn't mean it should be procrastinated until that point. Again, how fun would it be if your banks did that?
If teams had an issue with the 2 month payment, they should've raised it before they signed. And don't use it as an excuse or say that NASL is disorganised.
i.e. Don't agree to something and then say that someone's performance is poor because they didn't do better than what was agreed.
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On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly.
protect their players sure, but according to NASL's response claims this article from TIG has points that are 100% false.
Nobody can be sure until we get an OFFICIAL response from sc2con
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jeez 2nd time today i double post trying to edit i accidently hit reply :X
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On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly.
Yeah, but if protecting their players meant going against a SIGNED contract - then it is unethical. If it's in the negotiation phase, then I have no problems with it.
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On August 13 2011 02:19 NASL.tv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:01 BaekHo wrote:On August 13 2011 01:55 NASL.tv wrote:
The properly translated article is actually more wrong and slanderous than the mis-translated article in the OP. I dont know what part is actually wrong... I checked it few times already, mind to speak out if you know how to read Korean? I don't mean your translation is incorrect, sorry. I mean to say that what they're saying is not only wrong, but is slanderous. To claim that we earned a lot of profit and don't give back to the players is totally wrong. We increased our support of players. Raising the travel stipend is not just for Koreans, it's for every player in the league. This is an additional $8,000 we procured for players.
Do you seriously not know the difference between slander and libel? Jesus.
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On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didnt get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL . (This paragraph is Fact, not opinion, I believe.)
If this was true then there is absolutely zero confusion as to why the Koreans withdrew.
Also, if this was true then the NASL organizers are complete greedy ****s.
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699 Posts
Again -- we have said, that all prizes will be paid within 60 days. As of yesterday, it had been 31 days.
If Koreans waited until they got paid back fully all prizes, we would have to delay the season for another month. We can't do that. The fact that they were in 100% understanding of the deadlines we had for paying out prizes (they all signed the contracts) is key here.
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On August 13 2011 02:47 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly. protect their players sure, but according to NASL's response claims this article from TIG has points that are 100% false. Nobody can be sure until we get an OFFICIAL response from sc2con
Official response or not, the sc2con EXISTS to protect its players as it is made up of coaches from each team. You don`t need an official response to know that their decision is solely to protect its players.
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On August 13 2011 01:48 BaekHo wrote:"................Koreans are not being arrogant, rather they believe NASL is being amateur league that doesnt think or care about players but just hope to make profits out of it...............
This statement alone shows (I know it was the translators interjection, but it summed up the theme of the article in a lot of ways), that Korean players and teams are really not used to the American way of sports.
American sport enterprises exist to make money and make it in a big way. We have multiple multi-billion dollar professional sports all going at the same time, and all are ridiculously profitable.If there is a country to make a sport into an obscenely profitable enterprise, its the United States.
Koreans as well as players everywhere else are only here to make the sponsor's money by way of people using their products. If this statement wasn't true, then advertisers, sponsors and financial backers wouldn't participate. The players are there for the love of the game but in the end it becomes about the paycheck to the big companies behind the whole thing.
It's easier to get sponsor's here, there are more of them, even from companies not directly or indirectly affiliated with eSports. Koreans, I'd assert, aren't used to this because of the infamous lack of this.
If the Korean's can't handle or don't like the American sports machine model, then perhaps it's a good idea that they withdrew.
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On August 13 2011 02:48 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly. Yeah, but if protecting their players meant going against a SIGNED contract - then it is unethical. If it's in the negotiation phase, then I have no problems with it.
Yes, that is the main problem. Is there an actual signed contract for Season 2? We have still yet to hear an official response from NASL
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Man, there's so much NASL drama that it makes me glad I can just sit down and watch IGN instead -_-'
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EPT
