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On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:50 Fubi wrote:On August 13 2011 02:48 Azzur wrote:On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly. Yeah, but if protecting their players meant going against a SIGNED contract - then it is unethical. If it's in the negotiation phase, then I have no problems with it. Yes, that is the main problem. Is there an actual signed contract for Season 2? We have still yet to hear an official response from NASL WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
So if contracts already exist, are you not able to enforce them or take legal actions for breach of contracts?
I know you probably can't give out specific details regarding the actual terms of the contracts due to privacy reasons, but would be nice to get a general idea as to why all these problems are still currently exist when there are clear contracts in place
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On August 13 2011 03:21 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:On August 13 2011 02:50 Fubi wrote:On August 13 2011 02:48 Azzur wrote:On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly. Yeah, but if protecting their players meant going against a SIGNED contract - then it is unethical. If it's in the negotiation phase, then I have no problems with it. Yes, that is the main problem. Is there an actual signed contract for Season 2? We have still yet to hear an official response from NASL WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2. So if contracts already exist, are you not able to enforce them or take legal actions for breach of contracts? I know you probably can't give out specific details regarding the actual terms of the contracts due to privacy reasons, but would be nice to get a general idea as to why all these problems are still currently exist when there are clear contracts in place
Even if NASL did pursue the matter legally, it would be difficult to sue them for they have no money. The signed contracts did prove something - that SC2Con is not an organisation to be trusted. I hope the players realise this.
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On August 13 2011 03:21 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:On August 13 2011 02:50 Fubi wrote:On August 13 2011 02:48 Azzur wrote:On August 13 2011 02:45 mango_destroyer wrote:
I can`t believe people give sc2con shit for making a decision to protect its players. People really need to start thinking clearly. Yeah, but if protecting their players meant going against a SIGNED contract - then it is unethical. If it's in the negotiation phase, then I have no problems with it. Yes, that is the main problem. Is there an actual signed contract for Season 2? We have still yet to hear an official response from NASL WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2. So if contracts already exist, are you not able to enforce them or take legal actions for breach of contracts? I know you probably can't give out specific details regarding the actual terms of the contracts due to privacy reasons, but would be nice to get a general idea as to why all these problems are still currently exist when there are clear contracts in place
Sure they probably could sue for breach of contract...
1) But litigation is expensive. If NASL cannot afford to pay Koreans more how can they afford to litigate?
2) Even if they litigate, will they be successful?
3) Even if they are successful, they will earn damages. Unless damages are stated in the contract, how is the value going to be determined? My guess is a court would give NASL a very small amount
4) If they are not successful how can they now afford to cover legal fees for the defendant?
5) Regardless of outcome, this would affect NASL's perception - what kind of person would want to sign contracts with NASL knowing the potential consequences? (NFL teams don't enforce long-term season ticket contracts - bad PR)
I think 3 and 5 are the big points here. There's very little to be gained with a lot to be lost, even with successful litigation.
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hmmm.. so to me, this seems like not all the money has been passed around. Even NASL has said they have 60 days to pay them (which is in their contract) but some of the teams had to pay the cost of travel upfront and hasn't been paid back hence y they backed out. I have to admit though, seems kinda weird how the prizes of the first season hasn't all been paid out yet but season 2 is starting...
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699 Posts
We are not planning of doing anything of the sort -- we're going to move on with our lives, and make sure NASL Season 2 is awesome  !
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On August 13 2011 03:25 NASL.tv wrote:We are not planning of doing anything of the sort -- we're going to move on with our lives, and make sure NASL Season 2 is awesome !
Sorry to hear about S3.
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On August 13 2011 03:19 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:14 BaekHo wrote:
You guys should know that, many Koreans team are sponsorless (is this even word?)
Prime.WE doesnt have sponsor, as well as ZeNEX, fOu didnt have one, so contracted with FXO.
Only SlayerS IM has proper sponsor. all other teams are very low in income, i mean extremely low or
even 0. oGs, and MVP, I dont believe they have Korean sponsors, as well. From what has happened in the last few days (including the treatment of Coach Lee), they have been shown to be extremely unprofessional. And unprofessional teams don't attract sponsors. Yes, I agree money is an issue, and I'm not blaming them for trying to secure better conditions. I also don't blame them if money prevents participation. However, what I don't accept is their unethical way they went about it.
So I guess the only professional SC2 team in Korea is SlayerS right? They got all those sponsors because of Jessica's hard work and her connections. oGs, MVP, fOu, and the rest of the korean teams barely have any sponsors or even none at all. TSL has some sponsors but coach Lee still had to take out loans to support the team. IM were sponsor-less until recently. Even then, they had to be sponsored by a local chicken restaurant lol.
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Regarding the contracts and suing:
Specific Performance is not a remedy used in law for enforcement of contracts (generally speaking). Damages is the preferred remedy for breach of contract. The question is if the damages are worth the pursuit of legal remedies (i'm guessing it's not great expense to delay production and find new players; the claim that worse players produces worse revenue may be possible, but i just don't think they'd have the proof they need for this), if there is a lawyers fees clause in the contract (without one it's not worth suing), and what the choice of laws clause says (and the law of that jurisdiction).
Honestly, the damages aren't going to be that high, the hassle will be great, and i'm not sure if NASL hired an actual lawyer to draft a contract with these types of protections in them. I'm guessing legal remedies are off the table. It's a war of public confidence and credibitlity.
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I like how he made a statement about how NASL is out to make money. Does he not realize it's a fucking business? Of course they're out to make money. I don't understand this Korean's logic one bit. I am definitely not an NASL fan, but I do side with them when it comes to this matter. It's quite absurd that they kept offering more and more to help the Koreans come over and basically got shit on through this guy's opinion.
Also, why does it matter if some teams have sponsors and some don't? SlayerS and IM have proper sponsorships and aren't participating either.
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On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:
WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
If that is actual true, then why the hell don't you take proceedings against those teams. If you have a legit contract, you can force them to participate or compensate for it. That's what contracts are made for. So the fact, that you don't pull this into consideration, makes me think that you might have had an pre-contractual agreement, but nothing that could stand before a court.
If I'm wrong and you got it, then I have no idea, why you don't make use of it.
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That entire post seems like a load of shit. I don't believe more then a few words in this entire post. Even the stuff that seems truthful, its like... why even bring it up? Your making yourself look bad. The Korean elitism shows through again right here.
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On August 13 2011 03:28 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:
WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
If that is actual true, then why the hell don't you take proceedings against those teams. If you have a legit contract, you can force them to participate or compensate for it. That's what contracts are made for. So the fact, that you don't pull this into consideration, makes me think that you might have had an pre-contractual agreement, but nothing that could stand before a court. If I'm wrong and you got it, then I have no idea, why you don't make use of it.
see my post above. they can't force participation, and the compensation would be minimal at best.
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699 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:30 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:28 TeeTS wrote:On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:
WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
If that is actual true, then why the hell don't you take proceedings against those teams. If you have a legit contract, you can force them to participate or compensate for it. That's what contracts are made for. So the fact, that you don't pull this into consideration, makes me think that you might have had an pre-contractual agreement, but nothing that could stand before a court. If I'm wrong and you got it, then I have no idea, why you don't make use of it. see my post above. they can't force participation, and the compensation would be minimal at best.
Correct
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On August 13 2011 03:27 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:19 Azzur wrote:On August 13 2011 03:14 BaekHo wrote:
You guys should know that, many Koreans team are sponsorless (is this even word?)
Prime.WE doesnt have sponsor, as well as ZeNEX, fOu didnt have one, so contracted with FXO.
Only SlayerS IM has proper sponsor. all other teams are very low in income, i mean extremely low or
even 0. oGs, and MVP, I dont believe they have Korean sponsors, as well. From what has happened in the last few days (including the treatment of Coach Lee), they have been shown to be extremely unprofessional. And unprofessional teams don't attract sponsors. Yes, I agree money is an issue, and I'm not blaming them for trying to secure better conditions. I also don't blame them if money prevents participation. However, what I don't accept is their unethical way they went about it. So I guess the only professional SC2 team in Korea is SlayerS right? They got all those sponsors because of Jessica's hard work and her connections. oGs, MVP, fOu, and the rest of the korean teams barely have any sponsors or even none at all. TSL has some sponsors but coach Lee still had to take out loans to support the team. IM were sponsor-less until recently. Even then, they had to be sponsored by a local chicken restaurant lol.
Don't forget FXOKorea (lol deL :p) is also a professional team. Also look at Boxer's professionalism - he toughed out the NASL season because he agreed to it upfront, but withdrew from S2. Obviously, we all hold him in high esteem and this is just further evidence of it. I wonder what he must be thinking about SC2Con???
Also, I'm not 100% sure if IM is part of the SC2Con (anyone can enlighten me on this?). Anyways, if I'm not wrong, they have no players in NASL and thus they didn't sign anything (correct me if I'm wrong). I also like Nestea's attitude - if he doesn't like the conditions, he just doesn't participate - no qq about bad conditions, etc
Also, nothing wrong with a chicken sponsorship (although i think the chicken sponsors were for oGs and Prime). IM's sponsor is Coke I think.
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On August 13 2011 02:52 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:49 Ravencruiser wrote:On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didnt get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL . (This paragraph is Fact, not opinion, I believe.) If this was true then there is absolutely zero confusion as to why the Koreans withdrew. Also, if this was true then the NASL organizers are complete greedy ****s. There is a 60 day payback period after season 1 ended. It hasn't been 60 days yet... Some people have gotten their deposits back, and some are still waiting. But the 60 days isn't up.
Participants paid the security deposit so that NASL can have a leash tied on them in case any disciplinary issues happened in the league. Those who weren't charged of anything deserve their money sent back. I can't imagine why the money would just be sitting there waiting to get claimed rather then being sent back, is NASL trying to make a quick buck out of people who forget/misunderstand the policy?
User was warned for this post
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On August 13 2011 03:28 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:57 NASL.tv wrote:
WeMadeFox contract signed July 25th. Prime contracted signed July 26th. oGs contracts signed July 26th. So from the period in which they were signed (July 25-26), it took TEN days for Mr.Chae (not even a person from SC2Con) to tell me that the Korean players had issues. After I responded, it took another FIVE days (August 9th) for Mr.Chae to notify the NASL that Koreans would not play in Season 2.
If that is actual true, then why the hell don't you take proceedings against those teams. If you have a legit contract, you can force them to participate or compensate for it. That's what contracts are made for. So the fact, that you don't pull this into consideration, makes me think that you might have had an pre-contractual agreement, but nothing that could stand before a court. If I'm wrong and you got it, then I have no idea, why you don't make use of it.
litigation costs lots of money. NASL suing Korean teams would only create bad publicity for NASL even if NASL is in the right. it's not worth the time and effort.
it sucks that contracts can't really be enforced by NASL (other than security deposit garnishes), but that is basically all the power NASL has in this situation
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On August 13 2011 03:33 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:52 zerglingsfolife wrote:On August 13 2011 02:49 Ravencruiser wrote:On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didnt get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL . (This paragraph is Fact, not opinion, I believe.) If this was true then there is absolutely zero confusion as to why the Koreans withdrew. Also, if this was true then the NASL organizers are complete greedy ****s. There is a 60 day payback period after season 1 ended. It hasn't been 60 days yet... Some people have gotten their deposits back, and some are still waiting. But the 60 days isn't up. Participants paid the security deposit so that NASL can have a leash tied on them in case any disciplinary actions happened in the league. Those who weren't charged of anything deserve their money sent back.
I personally don't agree with the security deposit. However, I would've raised it up before I signed anything. And definitely not agree to it and then qq later.
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On August 13 2011 03:15 Azzur wrote:
The last few days have shown me one thing - the SC2Con is a weak and poorly run organisation. First, it was the slander of Coach Lee's name based on false testimony from FD and Tester. Now, it is the NASL debacle. Instead of reminding the teams of their legal and ethical obligations (to something they have signed on), they threaten a withdrawal to secure better conditions.
I'm speculating, but it is no wonder that some teams are struggling to get sponsors. Sponsors dislike dealing with unprofessional people.
I think the players all deserve better - I'm hoping that teams or players will see the light and jump ship.
Why the Koreans are getting everything they want by being unified. They are also creating demand for themselves.
So far the Koreans seem unwilling to honor their committments. Its all very political and sometimes shady.
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On August 13 2011 03:33 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 02:52 zerglingsfolife wrote:On August 13 2011 02:49 Ravencruiser wrote:On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didnt get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL . (This paragraph is Fact, not opinion, I believe.) If this was true then there is absolutely zero confusion as to why the Koreans withdrew. Also, if this was true then the NASL organizers are complete greedy ****s. There is a 60 day payback period after season 1 ended. It hasn't been 60 days yet... Some people have gotten their deposits back, and some are still waiting. But the 60 days isn't up. Participants paid the security deposit so that NASL can have a leash tied on them in case any disciplinary issues happened in the league. Those who weren't charged of anything deserve their money sent back. I can't imagine why the money would just be sitting there waiting to get claimed rather then being sent back, is NASL trying to make a quick buck out of people who forget/misunderstand the policy?
The security deposits have been and are being paid back in a timely manner as decided between NASL and the Korean teams before the season even started. This has been proven by posts in this thread by NASL.
Please read the thread before throwing around such accusations.
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Seems like the translation might've just been understood by SC2Con IMO. It'd be a shame if this was all due to misunderstanding.
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EPT
