On August 12 2011 15:46 Von wrote: More power to NASL and the West. Nothing personal and no disrespect to the Koreans:
But we don't need them. The level of players here is sick. The games will still be great.
It's about time we stop referring to all non-Koreans in this game as 'foreigners'.
Why are people still using that term? It's 2011. They don't own this sport.
This news is a big step in the direction of stepping up and losing that tired label.
You sound like you have some serious issues. The irony is that people like you are the ones who are making this about race and nationality. The rest of us just want to see good games, which come from the best players.
What's ironic is people like you think NA players will now have a shot at winning, but you're in for a rude awakening when Euro players take everything at NASL. Maybe then you'll realize the problem isn't with Koreans, it's with North American players who blame others (Koreans) for their own shortcomings.
On August 12 2011 15:52 Kush74 wrote: Amount of money NASL made by bringing korean players and making high quality stream unavailable to viewers who didnt pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What korean players are asking
So who's greedy here?
Koreans
Pretty much. Why should we have to pay for them to come over here? You don't see them paying for people like Huk to come over to Korea. If they want to compete over here then pay for it yourself.
He who has the talent/skills/viewership has the leverage. Why would you pay to bring over lesser players who don't bring anything to the table?
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
So you're telling me that professional Korean SC2 teams signed contracts and then completely broke them by withdrawing during the actual season of play? Then, they have the nerve to say that the situation is being misrepresented?
I cannot believe how incredibly unprofessional this is! Withdrawing all of their players DURING the season!? Are you serious? That goes beyond even the depravity of the TSL coach's business ethics. I am half surprised they didn't run to Korean media accusing the NASL of stealing their babies while they were at.
I am completely shocked by this! What about the foreign-sponsored players from SK-Gaming and Complexity gaming!? Wasn't the whole point that the outside organizations would pay the additional travel cost to ensure that top Korean players could travel!?
Here is hoping things pan out for the best! I want everyone to come together and be friends on this one <3
On August 12 2011 15:52 Kush74 wrote: Amount of money NASL made by bringing korean players and making high quality stream unavailable to viewers who didnt pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What korean players are asking
So who's greedy here?
Koreans
Pretty much. Why should we have to pay for them to come over here? You don't see them paying for people like Huk to come over to Korea. If they want to compete over here then pay for it themselves.
In fact they did pay for flight and housing and provided practice house when they hosted world championship
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
Because travel + prize money isn't cheaper. NASL doesn't have unlimited money
On August 12 2011 15:42 Unidus wrote: Personally I am tired of hearing about Koreans. I watch GSL for Korean matches. I want to see players like Incontrol, Idra, Catz in the finals of NASL and other NA tournaments. I think that the lesser amount of top Koreans at NASL will be a good thing. A lot of the foreigners look at the brackets and see MC, Moon, and the top Koreans and think to themselves "oh great I have no chance at winning the tournament. This causes them to slack off and provide subpar results.
Think of it as a 1 on 1 basketball tournament and players looking at the bracket and seeing Michael Jordan, Kobe, Lebron on it. The other players know they have little chance at beating them so why the heck would they even put in the effort or practice.
You can just as easily say that by making the prize pool available to lesser players, people will just slack off and be content with mediocrity. There has been numerous players stepping up their game after having a taste of Korea (or at least the competition). I don't believe there have been ANY that have improved their game after stepping back from the competition. Not IdrA, not Ret, not Haypro, not Rain...if you can think of any, please let me know.
On August 12 2011 14:51 lim1017 wrote: Does anyone remember when one of the GSL guys (mr.chae?). Said if the scenes were reversed and the big scene was over here (which it is in this case) top players would come LIVE in america for the chance to compete.
Now they won't even pay the costs over 2000?
The NASL does not qualify as "the big scene." It's one tournament. It's not the global center of the SC2 scene. What he said doesn't apply here.
The face that its one tourny makes it even worse. What Mr.chae said was in response to foreigners not coming to korea for months to compete in the GSL
Now koreans won't come to america for 3 days to win the same amount of money as GSL, are you saying they would come live in America for a league if it had a bigger prize pool?
The comparison is terrible. The foreigners going to compete live in the GOM house. They have practice houses arranged for them. This is for their entire duration of stay. NASL is not about those 3 days. It's about the entire 3 month ordeal for a chance to get to those 3 days. A 3 month ordeal that is stacked against the Koreans right now. Not to mention, it's not like once they get to final 16, they get to stomp on "white dudes" all day long. Chances are it would be a mostly Korean final 16 which would mean the competition is no different from GSL...only this time you had to play through 3 months of weekly matches in suboptimal conditions (and having it interfere with everything else in your schedule) before traveling.
On August 12 2011 15:42 xlnt wrote: Well this just shows that korean teams thinks they're "all that" and wants everything served on a plate. It's not like it's gonna be super expensive when they're given 2000$ for every player that participates in the finals, it can't be THAT expensive to travel to the US for a weekend. Seeing that they would definately make more fans, more sponsorship moneys if they have a decent agreement with the sponsors and showing their name to foreign fans that would come to the event and show their love for the team and players.
NASL Season 2 is still gonna rock I feel, just sad that we won't see any "koreans" there, even though most of them didn't even prepare for their matches. : [
You do remember they have to put up with 3 months of BS before they even think about traveling right? I find it odd how everyone thinks it's ok for NASL to shaft Koreans with the scheduling and expecting them to just live with the latency and then getting surprised when the Koreans get fed up with it. We don't see fiascoes like this at Dreamhack, IEM, MLG, or any other major foreign event.
Guys don't be retarded, NASL presents what is clearly a very one sided account of the issue and suddenly Americans think that they are they best thing since sliced bread?
There are many koreans who are willing to compete for fame and just a little bit of the prize money. It is odd that the entire korean organisation (except for the few exceptions) is getting the fuck out of it. Not just withdrawal of their best players, which is understandable, but a total, complete withdrawal.
Ask yourself, why are korean teams willing to send non invited players using their own $$$ to the MLG (a well run tournament) to compete, but not so for NASL? Perhaps they think the way the finals are set up is stupid. A single best of 3, you lose, goodbye, pack up, go home?
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
Travel expenses from Korea to the U.S. ~= $2500, which is a %500 increase over the already generous travel stipend that NASL was giving to players for making it to the Ro16. Their accommodations already blew those of the GSL, MLG, and every other tournament out of the water! And you ask why the NASL would refuse? Good sir, I love you as a TL brother, but please stop and think about that! 2.5k per player multiplied by 16 players = $40k already out the door just to get the players to the venue...
On August 12 2011 15:33 Fission wrote: If its true that NASL has not paid back deposits or prize money and that they are misrepresenting the stipend amount by wrapping it up with the minimum prize money, then I think this post should be Mod Edited to reflect the truth.
NASL already addressed this. The terms in their contract is 60 days after the event.
Most invoices and payments in NA are paid in 30 days, which is standard, however it is not abnormal for payments to take longer for small or mid-size business.
Waiting 60 days before refunding deposits or paying out prize money is neither unfair or extraordinary in anyway. People are just trying to invent controversy.
Edit: one douchebag is trying to create controversy.
Some would say requiring deposits from top players is abnormal in the first place.
it's a measure to make people show up for matches instead of no showing once they're mathematically eliminated from NASL playoffs
anyways, if the Koreans are really citing not receiving back deposits and not receiving prize money as reasons for pulling out of NASL, then either they never bothered to read the contract terms or they are really inexperienced in how businesses operate
NASL has stated that their terms are 60 days. there aren't any grounds to complain about not receiving deposits or prize money until the 60 days have past.
this +1. There is simply no ground for the koreans to stand on if they are complaining the not/late receiving prize money since they agreed with the rules before hand.
also, mods should really look into these new accounts......i suggested before TL is a big forum now new poster shouldnt be able to post at least within 12hours......
On August 12 2011 15:52 Kush74 wrote: Amount of money NASL made by bringing korean players and making high quality stream unavailable to viewers who didnt pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What korean players are asking
So who's greedy here?
Koreans
Pretty much. Why should we have to pay for them to come over here? You don't see them paying for people like Huk to come over to Korea. If they want to compete over here then pay for it themselves.
Its the same with MLG! Foreign tournaments without koreans are BORING AS HELL! MLG before the GSL-Exchange thing was a joke. Players like Drewbie/Gretorp or Painuser were seeded, WTF! No one gives a shit about NASL if you have games like Machine vs Drewbie or CatZ vs Minigun. That are players who enter 50$ tournaments. thats the place you should see them, not in a "Star League".
Fact is: NASL made alot of mistakes and rushed the league. Starting a season without sponsors and just begging for the hype to work is not a great idea.
On August 12 2011 15:57 shadymmj wrote: Guys don't be retarded, NASL presents what is clearly a very one sided account of the issue and suddenly Americans think that they are they best thing since sliced bread?
There are many koreans who are willing to compete for fame and just a little bit of the prize money. It is odd that the entire korean organisation (except for the few exceptions) is getting the fuck out of it. Not just withdrawal of their best players, which is understandable, but a total, complete withdrawal.
Ask yourself, why are korean teams willing to send non invited players using their own $$$ to the MLG (a well run tournament) to compete, but not so for NASL? Perhaps they think the way the finals are set up is stupid. A single best of 3, you lose, goodbye, pack up, go home?
Because MLG is a big success, has a proven track record and an excellent businessman (Sundance) at the helm, while NASL is a shady organization run by amateurs?
The ponzi scheme posted earlier is actually eerily plausible. For what reason did NASL increase the deposit for? This entire mess could have been avoided if they didn't do this.
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
I think it's pretty reasonable compromise NASL offered. It's better deal then competing in Code A isn't it? You get a $1000 stipend, and we fund your trip from your first round ($1k) prize money. If a sponsor can't afford to send you, no problem we are paying for it. Their sponsors don't have to front any money and you get a chance to win $40k at nearly no expense.
EPT
