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On August 12 2011 16:04 Volvograd12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play  The reasoning behind the Koreans deciding not to participate. First, NASL demanded deposit of $250 per players back in April. For season 2, they doubled the deposit to $500. Second is about how players had to deal with ungodly lag and inconsistent schedule to compete at 4 in the morning. The grand final that took place in the States was even worse. The players had to pay out of their own pockets for food, hotel, and travelling fee. The $500 NASL promised to cover for the expense wasn't even enough to cover the half of it.
Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money.You are welcome. Source + Show Spoiler +http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=2&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
are you the columnist who wrote that article or something? your account was made today. regardless you need to stop spamming the same thing over and over again.
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On August 12 2011 16:03 Kush74 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:01 VillageBC wrote:On August 12 2011 15:55 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote:
Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em. They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me. I think it's pretty reasonable compromise NASL offered. It's better deal then competing in Code A isn't it? You get a $1000 stipend, and we fund your trip from your first round ($1k) prize money. If a sponsor can't afford to send you, no problem we are paying for it. Their sponsors don't have to front any money and you get a chance to win $40k at nearly no expense. What makes you think they can just go in there and take the money. Only one player wins and rest of them end up losing a lot of money to go to some shitty tournament that has terrible management
I suppose you missed the earlier bit where this did happen in the first tournament and NASL took the hit.
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On August 12 2011 16:07 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:04 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play The reasoning behind the Koreans deciding not to participate. First, NASL demanded deposit of $250 per players back in April. For season 2, they doubled the deposit to $500. Second is about how players had to deal with ungodly lag and inconsistent schedule to compete at 4 in the morning. The grand final that took place in the States was even worse. The players had to pay out of their own pockets for food, hotel, and travelling fee. The $500 NASL promised to cover for the expense wasn't even enough to cover the half of it.
Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money.You are welcome. Source + Show Spoiler +http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=2&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token= Hm, this is very interesting. I hope someone translates the whole article. I won't take a side till both are put forward. I'm still sad we won't get to see Optimus or MKP in Los Angeles.
It is insanely long, I'm trying, but I doubt I'll get far.
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On August 12 2011 15:57 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 15:50 Kush74 wrote:On August 12 2011 15:46 Von wrote:
More power to NASL and the West. Nothing personal and no disrespect to the Koreans:
But we don't need them. The level of players here is sick. The games will still be great.
It's about time we stop referring to all non-Koreans in this game as 'foreigners'.
Why are people still using that term? It's 2011. They don't own this sport.
This news is a big step in the direction of stepping up and losing that tired label.
Thats why almost every foreigners lost in NASL round of 16 right? Thats why top 6 MLG finish was koreans right? Honestly when i watch koreans gamers play and watch other tournaments I can clearly see the difference in the quality of games.... No disrespect to non-Korean players, but games with korean pros are just simply better. And add to that the GSL code A matches for + Show Spoiler +Jinro, Naniwa, Felix, Thorzain all gg in the first round
Add in that mvps first loss in the teamleague after the foreign players actually got some sleep.
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On August 12 2011 16:04 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:00 Ocedic wrote:On August 12 2011 15:57 shadymmj wrote:
Guys don't be retarded, NASL presents what is clearly a very one sided account of the issue and suddenly Americans think that they are they best thing since sliced bread?
There are many koreans who are willing to compete for fame and just a little bit of the prize money. It is odd that the entire korean organisation (except for the few exceptions) is getting the fuck out of it. Not just withdrawal of their best players, which is understandable, but a total, complete withdrawal.
Ask yourself, why are korean teams willing to send non invited players using their own $$$ to the MLG (a well run tournament) to compete, but not so for NASL? Perhaps they think the way the finals are set up is stupid. A single best of 3, you lose, goodbye, pack up, go home? Because MLG is a big success, has a proven track record and an excellent businessman (Sundance) at the helm, while NASL is a shady organization run by amateurs? The ponzi scheme posted earlier is actually eerily plausible. For what reason did NASL increase the deposit for? This entire mess could have been avoided if they didn't do this. They increased the deposit because of the amount of walk overs that happened in season 1. They don't want that to happen again. And I don't understand how the Koreans are trying to use the deposit against them as every player, foreign or Korean has to pay the deposit. Its called treating players equally. Koreans seem to think they deserve special treatment. And they complain about not being paid yet when NASL told they within 60 days. Its been what, 30-40 days? Come on now.
The number of walk outs was rather low actually. Certainly not enough to justify a 100% increase. And it begs the question, why not just charge people who WO'd season 1 more on the deposit? The fact that all players are treated equally (as criminals) IS actually bullshit. Why are you punishing people who followed the rules in season 1?
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On August 12 2011 16:04 Volvograd12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play The reasoning behind the Koreans deciding not to participate. First, NASL demanded deposit of $250 per players back in April. For season 2, they doubled the deposit to $500. Second is about how players had to deal with ungodly lag and inconsistent schedule to compete at 4 in the morning. The grand final that took place in the States was even worse. The players had to pay out of their own pockets for food, hotel, and travelling fee. The $500 NASL promised to cover for the expense wasn't even enough to cover the half of it.
Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money.You are welcome.
Deposit was raised for every player so the walk overs that happened in season 1 don't happen in season 2.
Lag and schedule has been known about forever. They don't like it, dont qualify.
Players and teams knew the travel stipend. Every tournament costs money to go to, unless you are a part of the GSL/MLG deal. Seriously, the Koreans are bitching about not getting special treatment.
Teams should pay for the rest of the traveling. Getting $1000 is a good deal and I'm sure every foreign team loves that they get that much.
Money will be returned within 60 days and thats still a few weeks away.
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NASL now competes with the IPL for a fanbase, as their game quality is the same.
The first NASL had bad production due to overpriced, under qualified nepotistic hiring, and a lack of foreign competition, aside from SEn, and Darkforce. They should be seriously worried about keeping a fanbase. There is an oversaturation of the market, but they offered something different. Now they offer the same as every other league, except with regulated players that don't need to qualify to get in, as they are hand chosen by the select few who rule.
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On August 12 2011 16:07 LuciferSC wrote:If it is true that Koreans signed a contract with NASL, then they made a big boo boo by canceling that contract last minute. But by the word of them not having paid the deposit yet, I wonder if there actually was an established contract. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play Very generous? I'd think not. For any sports, if they are to invite a top class player, it is very common for them to not only cover the travel & accommodation expense, but pay a big sum of guarantee on top of that. The fact that NASL isn't even fully covering their travel expense (don't give me that $2000 thingie.. NASL's only offering to cover up to $1000 out of their own pocket). NASL are inviting Koreans for the sake of raising their tournament's value & reputation.If they can't afford to provide transportation & accommodation for big number of Korean players coming over, then they should lower the number of invitations and be ready to host them properly & accordingly.
Just want to make a note here that of the 14 players that managed qualified for season two, 12 are Koreans. The Koreans fought hard to get into NASL.
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On August 12 2011 16:08 broz0rs wrote:
My problem with this whole thing is how NASL made this issue very public. It would have been much more respectful if NASL took the high road and moved on without disclosing these private matters between the organizations.
If they hadn't made it public, everybody would be bitching about how NASL is keeping things secret and why aren't they telling us the reason the koreans aren't playing, etc, etc.
Damned if you do damned if you dont.
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On August 12 2011 16:04 latan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 15:52 forgottendreams wrote:On August 12 2011 15:49 latan wrote:
it's good decision by the koreans, NASL as an organization (if it can even be called that), seems dodgy, suspicions of it being nothing but a scam can't be dispelled yet.
And i don't find their demands being too unreasonable, but could be either way. a good organization would arrange for expenses to be covered. a not so good one would warn beforehand that competitors would have to arrange for themselves (limiting the quality of competitors) but that would still be fair game. a bit of a shit move by the koreans to wait so long for the move, seems like they're just asking for the prizes to be paid before contracting them into another season, but we don't know the full story anyway. You really don't see anything wrong with SC2Con demanding unlimited travel expenses?Whose to say whether players won't book luxury suites and dine out at expensive restaurants every night? where in the world are you coming up with unlimited travel expenses? even the original post by NASL doesn't use that word, unlimited, it says 100% of travel and accommodation, this can be done in a number of ways. that just means buy or refund plane tickets and arrange, provide or refund accomodation. it really isn't that unreasonable, that is, if the NASL had money.
I'm pre-law in college, "100% of expenses" in contractual language is a polite way of saying whatever amount we feel is necessary.
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I wanna see how the new TL guy Hero does :3
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On August 12 2011 16:06 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:03 HeIios wrote:On August 12 2011 16:03 nihoh wrote:
Never paid much attention to NASL, hardly a premier event with MLG, GSL and countless other tournaments. The koreans feel the same way I bet. To add to the fact of the finals were just subpar, they lost many fans.
...and I may even go as far to say that some teams might not be able to pay 500$ deposits if they are sending 3-6 players for example. Korean teams aren't rich at all, and every little bit of money counts. Yes they might have a chance at the prize pool, but it's a gamble.
Add that into the fact the toll that travelling takes on you, I can definitely see why they would pull out.
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On August 12 2011 16:07 LuciferSC wrote:If it is true that Koreans signed a contract with NASL, then they made a big boo boo by canceling that contract last minute. But by the word of them not having paid the deposit yet, I wonder if there actually was an established contract. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play Very generous? I'd think not. For any sports, if they are to invite a top class player, it is very common for them to not only cover the travel & accommodation expense, but pay a big sum of guarantee on top of that. The fact that NASL isn't even fully covering their travel expense (don't give me that $2000 thingie.. NASL's only offering to cover up to $1000 out of their own pocket). NASL are inviting Koreans for the sake of raising their tournament's value & reputation. If they can't afford to provide transportation & accommodation for big number of Korean players coming over, then they should lower the number of invitations and be ready to host them properly & accordingly.
The point about inviting a top class player to raise a tournament's value and reputation is a good one, though it might be an uncomfortable truth for some people.
The fact is that Koreans are superior players to foreigners means that their participation indeed carries an additional value factor in terms of how a tournament is perceived by many spectators. Foreigners in the GSL is "giving foreigners a chance to compete with the Koreans", while Koreans in the NASL and at MLG is "Adding to the value and reputation of the tournaments with absolute top-class players". This distinction is born solely from the fact that Koreans are simply better than foreigners overall.
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Russian Federation19 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:08 Andrew2658 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:04 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote:NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play The reasoning behind the Koreans deciding not to participate. First, NASL demanded deposit of $250 per players back in April. For season 2, they doubled the deposit to $500. Second is about how players had to deal with ungodly lag and inconsistent schedule to compete at 4 in the morning. The grand final that took place in the States was even worse. The players had to pay out of their own pockets for food, hotel, and travelling fee. The $500 NASL promised to cover for the expense wasn't even enough to cover the half of it.
Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money.You are welcome. Source + Show Spoiler +http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=2&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token= You do know NASL stated they will pay within 60 days. Also they said they would waive the deposit for Korean players in this thread. They also said they covered the expenses of the Koreans for the grand final. Which included Airfare, taxi, hotel, and food. You need to stop trolling you are making yourself look very foolish.
Complete lie, if they had, this would not had occurred.
The only fool around here is yourself.
You are taking the NASL's POV on face value?
Your bias and willful ignorance is very telling.
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On August 12 2011 16:04 Volvograd12 wrote:
\Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money
Jesus fucking christ stop it.
On August 12 2011 08:34 NASL.tv wrote:
Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from).
On August 12 2011 09:00 NASL.tv wrote:
We have already begun paying back all security deposits of players who are no longer in Season 2. Our contract states that all prizes will be paid within 60 days of the end of Season 1. We are still within that time frame, and will be paying all prizes within that period!
Artosis, HuK (who paid Boxer's deposit for S1), WeMadeFox, etc could all attest to the fact that we have and will pay our deposits back.
On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote:
We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation.
They have basically already addressed your stupid copy paste spamming. Now, if you have a problem with their message, feel free to voice it. Otherwise, stop copy and pasting please.
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On August 12 2011 16:09 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 16:00 Ocedic wrote:On August 12 2011 15:57 shadymmj wrote:
Guys don't be retarded, NASL presents what is clearly a very one sided account of the issue and suddenly Americans think that they are they best thing since sliced bread?
There are many koreans who are willing to compete for fame and just a little bit of the prize money. It is odd that the entire korean organisation (except for the few exceptions) is getting the fuck out of it. Not just withdrawal of their best players, which is understandable, but a total, complete withdrawal.
Ask yourself, why are korean teams willing to send non invited players using their own $$$ to the MLG (a well run tournament) to compete, but not so for NASL? Perhaps they think the way the finals are set up is stupid. A single best of 3, you lose, goodbye, pack up, go home? Because MLG is a big success, has a proven track record and an excellent businessman (Sundance) at the helm, while NASL is a shady organization run by amateurs? The ponzi scheme posted earlier is actually eerily plausible. For what reason did NASL increase the deposit for? This entire mess could have been avoided if they didn't do this. They increased the deposit because of the amount of walk overs that happened in season 1. They don't want that to happen again. And I don't understand how the Koreans are trying to use the deposit against them as every player, foreign or Korean has to pay the deposit. Its called treating players equally. Koreans seem to think they deserve special treatment. And they complain about not being paid yet when NASL told they within 60 days. Its been what, 30-40 days? Come on now. The number of walk outs was rather low actually. Certainly not enough to justify a 100% increase. And it begs the question, why not just charge people who WO'd season 1 more on the deposit? The fact that all players are treated equally (as criminals) IS actually bullshit. Why are you punishing people who followed the rules in season 1?
It wasn't low. It was pretty ridiculous actually. There shouldn't be any walk overs. They arent treated as criminals at all. They just want to prevent this from happening again and they should as walk overs look terrible. They get the damn deposit back too.
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does this mean ill actually be able to watch a SC2 tournament that isnt ruined by korean terrans coming an dominating it?
this'll be great, we'll get a chance to see just how well the NA and EU players do against each other
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On August 12 2011 16:11 Volvograd12 wrote:
Complete lie, if they had, this would not had occurred.
The only fool around here is yourself.
You are taking the NASL's POV on face value?
Your bias and willful ignorance is very telling.
Your taking SC2Cons POV at face value?
Your bias and willful ignorance is very telling.
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On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote:
While this does mean that NASL Season 2 will be slightly delayed, we remain steadfast in our commitment to eSports – we will broadcast high quality games every day and bring you some of the very best play the world has to offer.
-- North American Star League
Sorry, but I disagree with this statement
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EPT
