On August 12 2011 16:13 ThatGuy89 wrote: does this mean ill actually be able to watch a SC2 tournament that isnt ruined by korean terrans coming an dominating it?
this'll be great, we'll get a chance to see just how well the NA and EU players do against each other
There was only one NA player in last NASL's finals IIRC. How NA and EU players do against each other isn't a mystery. EU is clearly ahead of NA.
On August 12 2011 16:13 ThatGuy89 wrote: does this mean ill actually be able to watch a SC2 tournament that isnt ruined by korean terrans coming an dominating it?
this'll be great, we'll get a chance to see just how well the NA and EU players do against each other
On August 12 2011 15:52 Kush74 wrote: Amount of money NASL made by bringing korean players and making high quality stream unavailable to viewers who didnt pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What korean players are asking
So who's greedy here?
Koreans
Pretty much. Why should we have to pay for them to come over here? You don't see them paying for people like Huk to come over to Korea. If they want to compete over here then pay for it themselves.
...Are you trolling? I guess you forgot about the whole GOM house and practice program set in place for foreigners in Korea? Or maybe you just haven't been up to date with the news, given that Thorzain, Nani, Sase, and Sjow are all being treated to free ride to code A now?
On August 12 2011 15:52 Kush74 wrote: Amount of money NASL made by bringing korean players and making high quality stream unavailable to viewers who didnt pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What korean players are asking
So who's greedy here?
Koreans
Pretty much. Why should we have to pay for them to come over here? You don't see them paying for people like Huk to come over to Korea. If they want to compete over here then pay for it yourself.
He who has the talent/skills/viewership has the leverage. Why would you pay to bring over lesser players who don't bring anything to the table?
For money and for equality. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours kind of deal. Kinda like with MLG/GSL.
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
It's not cheaper if you factor in the prize money because their current plan involves decreasing everyone's prize money to give top 16 a guaranteed $1000...from which the remainder of the Korean's expenses would be deducted from.
On August 12 2011 15:55 Volvograd12 wrote:
CatZ's dream just came true.
No, if CatZ's dream just came true and it was a North American Star League for North Americans, he would be out as well no? And I'll laugh so hard if the top 8 turn into Rain, Puma, Hero, TheBest, Choya, sC, Leenock, and SelecT lol.
On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote: Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em.
They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me.
Travel expenses from Korea to the U.S. ~= $2500, which is a %500 increase over the already generous travel stipend that NASL was giving to players for making it to the Ro16. Their accommodations already blew those of the GSL, MLG, and every other tournament out of the water! And you ask why the NASL would refuse? Good sir, I love you as a TL brother, but please stop and think about that! 2.5k per player multiplied by 16 players = $40k already out the door just to get the players to the venue...
MLG paid for their Korean invites. GSL paid for their foreign invites and has a house set up for all foreigners. Good sir, I love you as a TL brother, but please, stop and think about what you post. They can't even schedule the Koreans into normal playing times and you're saying they are more accommodating than any other tournament? GSL rearranged their broadcasting and match schedules so 4 foreigners could attend outside events...think about that for a second. And considering the amount of extra viewership they pull in from having top Koreans and fan favorites on board, 40k sounds like a fairly even investment.
Sad that this happened. I am sure teams such as mvp and sponsored ogs players probably could of afforded it with partnership deals where complexity/sk pay for travel and players like mkp can pay out of pocket with their winnings but I guess some teams do not want to go against the decisions of sc2con. Weird but I guess there is a bit of a rivalry with gsl as well. I think it would of been better for individual teams to come out and say that they cannot afford participating in the NASL rather than the whole of korea trying to collectively bargain for more stipends and then all of them not participating when it fails.
maybe considering holding the grandfinals in Korea ? by season 3 there would be 70% Korean of the players, and maybe 15/16 grandfinal slots belong to Koreans. I know it goes against the name but still
On August 12 2011 16:13 ThatGuy89 wrote: does this mean ill actually be able to watch a SC2 tournament that isnt ruined by korean terrans coming an dominating it?
this'll be great, we'll get a chance to see just how well the NA and EU players do against each other
There was only one NA player in last NASL's finals IIRC. How NA and EU players do against each other isn't a mystery. EU is clearly ahead of NA.
I laugh at those expecting to see NA players in the finals, outside of maybe Idra and Sheth. Koreans gone = European dominance, and Sen there as well of course.
On August 12 2011 16:00 Stiluz wrote: NASL's offer seemed very generous. It seems more like the Korean teams that withdrew almost didn't want to play
The reasoning behind the Koreans deciding not to participate.
First, NASL demanded deposit of $250 per players back in April. For season 2, they doubled the deposit to $500.
Second is about how players had to deal with ungodly lag and inconsistent schedule to compete at 4 in the morning.
The grand final that took place in the States was even worse. The players had to pay out of their own pockets for food, hotel, and travelling fee. The $500 NASL promised to cover for the expense wasn't even enough to cover the half of it. Not only that, NASL charged players $80 when picking them up from the air port.
NASL offered to pay $2000 for the travelling fee, at the cost of taking $1000 OUT of the prize money.
Also, players who competed in season 1 still have not received any of their deposit or the prize money. You are welcome.
You do know NASL stated they will pay within 60 days. Also they said they would waive the deposit for Korean players in this thread.They also said they covered the expenses of the Koreans for the grand final. Which included Airfare, taxi, hotel, and food. You need to stop trolling you are making yourself look very foolish.
Complete lie, if they had, this would not had occurred.
The only fool around here is yourself.
You are taking the NASL's POV on face value?
Your bias and willful ignorance is very telling.
Yeah and your taking sc2con's pov on face value just after they had that whole TSL fiasco blow up in their face.
Upon doing more reading, Koreans are definitely at fault for bailing out after participating in online portion of the tourney, knowing the condition of the accommodation NASL can provide. No way for them to escape out of that one.
But it still seems like NASL should've been able to better accommodate them though. Them being the top-level pros.
At the same time, Koreans shouldn't have agreed to participate in the first place if NASL's too small of a tournament for them to participate in.
On August 12 2011 16:16 NHY wrote: Where do people get the idea of $2000 or $2500 stipend? OP clearly says $1000 stipend and $1000 minimum prize pool. There is a difference.
Does the difference matter? It ends up being the same figures in the end as far as their sponsors being able to afford to send them or not, close to $0.
On August 12 2011 16:13 ThatGuy89 wrote: does this mean ill actually be able to watch a SC2 tournament that isnt ruined by korean terrans coming an dominating it?
this'll be great, we'll get a chance to see just how well the NA and EU players do against each other
There was only one NA player in last NASL's finals IIRC. How NA and EU players do against each other isn't a mystery. EU is clearly ahead of NA.
I laugh at those expecting to see NA players in the finals, outside of maybe Idra and Sheth. Koreans gone = European dominance, and Sen there as well of course.
Sen is going to dominate, and there will be an outcry to ban Taiwanese as well.
On August 12 2011 08:19 tehemperorer wrote: This is kind of good news as it makes the NASL more of a NASL, I think CatZ would agree
Except we now get to see second rate players bar about 4 players
Comments like this is very sad to read, maybe now with the Koreans out the remaining players will feel extra motivated to do their best since they got a higher chance to get to the finals and ultimately win.
I watched every game last season, not just the ones with Koreans in them and I must say that the vast majority of them was very entertaining either way. You don't need Koreans to keep a high level and entertaining league, and this might even help it become better you never know.
If Korean teams want a complete free ride for their players, then they need to give foreign players a free ride to GSL in addition to the ones that receive it from MLG as thats a completely separate deal.
Not trying to spread rumors, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out if this isn't just about the expense involving the trip to the US. I'm sure the tight budget of each Korean team did play some role in it, but it's also got to do with everything involving NASL (long season, bad playing hours for Koreans, and plus that EG-PuMa-TSL fiasco). In the end, it looks like they felt that NASL isn't just worth the effort.
On August 12 2011 16:18 jmbthirteen wrote: If Korean teams want a complete free ride for their players, then they need to give foreign players a free ride to GSL in addition to the ones that receive it from MLG as thats a completely separate deal.
You can only make this offer if NASL and GSL are equals, which they are clearly not.
jmbthirteen, dude ignore him, its obvious he's trolling along with kush, probably the same guy, cause they both started posting at the same time and they are both saying the same thing. A mod will eventually come along and handle it.
On August 12 2011 16:18 jmbthirteen wrote: If Korean teams want a complete free ride for their players, then they need to give foreign players a free ride to GSL in addition to the ones that receive it from MLG as thats a completely separate deal.
But GSL provided housing for people coming over, they arrange deals with outside sources to fly people over to Korea to compete in code A. They WANT foreigners in their tournaments.
I'm sad that this is such a big problem, but it is still more of a Korean Starcraft II scene problem.
-Each GSL season is almost a month long and trying to participate so early in the morning will hurt their performance in NASL and in GSL.
-Team sponsorship in Korea has been lacking and the scene hasn't taken off as much as anyone would like it to have by now. Little money = hard to send players overseas. I do think NASL's final offer was generous enough but I think the Koreans put their foot down a while back.
I thought that the finals to NASL S1 were amazing and I'll still be watching S2 because it is only going to get better. Hopefully we get even more koreans on foreign teams so they can go to these events a prop up NA scene and the skill level overall.
On August 12 2011 16:18 jmbthirteen wrote: If Korean teams want a complete free ride for their players, then they need to give foreign players a free ride to GSL in addition to the ones that receive it from MLG as thats a completely separate deal.
You can only make this offer if NASL and GSL are equals, which they are clearly not.
EPT
