EPTKorean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 100
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hyperknight
294 Posts
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theBizness
United States696 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:19 HeIios wrote: But GSL provided housing for people coming over, they arrange deals with outside sources to fly people over to Korea to compete in code A. They WANT foreigners in their tournaments. They even arranged for practice houses didn't they? Or was that done independently? | ||
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LuciferSC
Canada535 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:18 jmbthirteen wrote: If Korean teams want a complete free ride for their players, then they need to give foreign players a free ride to GSL in addition to the ones that receive it from MLG as thats a completely separate deal. Yes Koreans do provide better accommodation for the Western players. And no, Koreans aren't really obligated to do so, as in other sports, ie. PGA, u don't see PGA tournament organizers paying an amateur to come participate in their tourneys. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:19 HeIios wrote: But GSL provided housing for people coming over, they arrange deals with outside sources to fly people over to Korea to compete in code A. They WANT foreigners in their tournaments. Don't Koreans complain about the free ride foreigners get? While all their good players struggle just to qualify for Code A only to have 4 spots given away. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On August 12 2011 15:57 jmbthirteen wrote: Some people claimed it can go as low as 1.2k, which +500 is less than 2k.Because travel + prize money isn't cheaper. NASL doesn't have unlimited money On the other hand, if NASL expects world's top SC2 players to spend ~3 months on event that could end up as a potential financial loss, due to the traveling costs, gl with that. The fact that Boxer made the same decision beforehand shows it's not just some Korean player organization at fault. In the end, all this is fine. Just the ambitions of NASL to be a global event are a bit reduced now. It would still be an interesting event to follow, regardless, of course. Similarly, there are some European events with quite high prizes that are not very global, but still quite fun. It's good to have variety. | ||
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HeIios
Sweden2523 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:20 VillageBC wrote: Don't Koreans complain about the free ride foreigners get? While all their good players struggle just to qualify for Code A only to have 4 spots given away. The Koreans complaing to hell and back about the free ride that foreigners gets, yes. Not all, but some. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:19 Slider954 wrote: jmbthirteen, dude ignore him, its obvious he's trolling along with kush, probably the same guy, cause they both started posting at the same time and they are both saying the same thing. A mod will eventually come along and handle it. probably, but unfortunately people are just coming into the thread and reading it and get the wrong impression. this is a shitty situation for everyone. Korean teams don't seem to be ran too well business wise. They should have never allowed their players to qualify in NASL if this is how they felt. Not let the league start and then pull out. Thats just bush league. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
Some ex-players complain about tsl? Don't investigate, just sanction them and remove them from sc2con! Sign a contract with a other esports organisation? Demand extras moments before the league starts complaining about things known beforehand. Really nice organisation! | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:15 tripper688 wrote: No, if CatZ's dream just came true and it was a North American Star League for North Americans, he would be out as well no? And I'll laugh so hard if the top 8 turn into Rain, Puma, Hero, TheBest, Choya, sC, Leenock, and SelecT lol. It's actually very likely those players (including TheBest who qualified for Code A so that says something) to be in top 8. Also Rain is next bonjwa for SC2 so of course Rain >.>. Credit to "muffley" for this GIF: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0EaJ3.gif) | ||
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sc2guy
291 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:17 LuciferSC wrote: Upon doing more reading, Koreans are definitely at fault for bailing out after participating in online portion of the tourney, knowing the condition of the accommodation NASL can provide. No way for them to escape out of that one. No they did not bail out. They tried to discuss with NASL but NASL chose to ignore the problems and go ahead with filming. I shall quote an extract from my original post. ------------------------------------------------------- In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. >> Okay, via Mr Chae, they made their conditions for continuing their participation in NASL season 2. Note how I avoided the use of the word 'demands'. I do not see anything wrong with making those requests. In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league. We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation. >> In the earlier paragraph you say "In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae" bla bla bla... this was well ahead of Season 2 starting. Then NASL proceeded to continue filming when the issue was not settled (notified August 9th - our 2nd day of filming). I really wonder who's fault this is? We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season. >> Not final hour. You chose to ignore the existing issues and started filming. They notified NASL during the prepartion for Season 2. ------------------------------------------------------- | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:21 figq wrote: Some people claimed it can go as low as 1.2k, which +500 is less than 2k. On the other hand, if NASL expects world's top SC2 players to spend ~3 months on event that could end up as a potential financial loss, due to the traveling costs, gl with that. The fact that Boxer made the same decision beforehand shows it's not just some Korean player organization at fault. In the end, all this is fine. Just the ambitions of NASL to be a global event are a bit reduced now. It would still be an interesting event to follow, regardless, of course. Similarly, there are some European events with quite high prizes that are not very global, but still quite fun. It's good to have variety. The difference with Boxer is he didn't wait till the league started to pull out. He hadn't made a commitment yet, while the teams pulling out now, by having their players qualify did make one. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:18 jellyjello wrote: Not trying to spread rumors, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out if this isn't just about the expense involving the trip to the US. I'm sure the tight budget of each Korean team did play some role in it, but it's also got to do with everything involving NASL (long season, bad playing hours for Koreans, and plus that EG-PuMa-TSL fiasco). In the end, it looks like they felt that NASL isn't just worth the effort. exactly read the original post about boxer's decision that was made before sc2con's boxer is a special figure in the sense that he can well afford to go wherever he pleases, compete in whatever foreign tournament there is, and still get a huge reception. besides that his mlg performance should place him equal or above any foreigner except huk. if even boxer has to decline, then there must be something quite wrong with the tournament, or it is simply not be worth the effort. also while NASL is quite within their rights to withhold payment until the 59th day, it shows a lot more credibility when you sort out the prizes within a few weeks. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:17 VillageBC wrote: Does the difference matter? It ends up being the same figures in the end as far as their sponsors being able to afford to send them or not, close to $0. Prize comes after tax. Different teams handle things differently, but I believe in most cases players take all prizes and their team covers the travel cost. Edit: and security deposit. | ||
whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:10 Primadog wrote: Just want to make a note here that of the 14 players that managed qualified for season two, 12 are Koreans. The Koreans fought hard to get into NASL. Not to mention, that if you are a player and you qualify for a tournament and sign a contract, you should probably think twice about doing that if you or your team can't pay the full expense out of pocket, because that's your responsibility. Costs of food/lodging/travel fall on the player, whereas cost of area/studio/equipment/staff/prize pool fall on the tournament. If a tournament feels generous and offers to pay for food/lodging/travel, good for them, but it is NOT an obligation. Therefore, to provide those services cannot be anything but generous. The whole point of teams is to work on getting sponsors to make sure players have money so that they can focus their time on gaming. If the Korean teams are broke, then it's time they adopt different management. NASL gave a very generous offer that covers most, if not all, of the travel expenses. The committee refused it and didn't seem very interested in discussing it further. What can anyone do in that case? I think overall everybody is lucky that NASL is not suing them for breach of contract. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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lacho_u
Bulgaria535 Posts
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theBizness
United States696 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote: I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them Alas, the Code A qualifier is probably a harder tournament than NASL. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote: It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:25 whateverpeeps wrote: Not to mention, that if you are a player and you qualify for a tournament and sign a contract, you should probably think twice about doing that if you or your team can't pay the full expense out of pocket, because that's your responsibility. Costs of food/lodging/travel fall on the player, whereas cost of area/studio/equipment/staff/prize pool fall on the tournament. If a tournament feels generous and offers to pay for food/lodging/travel, good for them, but it is NOT an obligation. Therefore, to provide those services cannot be anything but generous. The whole point of teams is to work on getting sponsors to make sure players have money so that they can focus their time on gaming. If the Korean teams are broke, then it's time they adopt different management. NASL gave a very generous offer that covers most, if not all, of the travel expenses. The committee refused it and didn't seem very interested in discussing it further. What can anyone do in that case? I think overall everybody is lucky that NASL is not suing them for breach of contract. NASL suing them would perhaps be the dumbest move I have seen in SC2 history. | ||
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Supdude
244 Posts
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