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On August 12 2011 16:33 Nayl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them  This reeks of arrogance. The dollar sign goes before the '50'. Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy. 1/16 chance to win imaginary money? How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea? 60 days right? Give me a break, you must be working for Thisisgame or something. A lot of Koreans disapprove of this decision as well. The "cheque" thing is a business procedure, and has nothing to do with how long it takes to mail a cheque from US to Korea. I am 99.9% sure they WILL get paid.
Ignore him, Nayl. He's obviously a troll or a sockpuppet. Created an account today and only posted in this thread. Go figures on why he hasn't been banned yet.
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On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense.
People before you have already pointed out that the part of their expenses being paid is wrong.
But no, you can't count that as "having lost 650". The 500 dollars of prize money is just that: prize money, something that was already going to be paid. The players just found that the NASL wasn't worth all the crap for just that amount.
And nowhere did I say 350< 0. Learn reading comprehension before you post nonsense.
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On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them This reeks of arrogance. The dollar sign goes before the '50'. Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy. 1/16 chance to win imaginary money? How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea? 60 days right?
Actually, If knew anything about accounting or managing the cash flow of a project 60 days is pretty normal, and only slightly longer than standard practice.
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Russian Federation19 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:33 Nayl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them This reeks of arrogance. The dollar sign goes before the '50'. Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy. 1/16 chance to win imaginary money? How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea? 60 days right? Give me a break, you must be working for Thisisgame or something. A lot of Koreans disapprove of this decision as well. The "cheque" thing is a business procedure, and has nothing to do with how long it takes to mail a cheque from US to Korea. I am 99.9% sure they WILL get paid.
Just 99.9%, huh, darling?
Your bias and paranoia is showing, I have no affiliations with any Korean companies.
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On August 12 2011 16:32 forgottendreams wrote:
So many shallow posts ignoring the bigger picture going on....
It's not about EG-Puma
It's not about greedy Koreans
It's not about travel expenses
It's about a hedgemony protecting their interests and remaining the two most important organizations. The GSL in Korea, the MLG in America which both are partnered by SC2Con who are doing the negotiations. Wake up...
Dude stop it already, to say GSL and MLG/Sundance have anything to do with this is ridiculous.
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Look on the bright side at least NASL lives up too their name now 
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On August 12 2011 16:33 LuciferSC wrote:
How are we (or u for that matter) that NASL didn't charge Zenio to pay for that $650?
And it is $1000, not $2000. Half of that $2000 constitutes their tournament winning.
I assume they didn't when they said they took the loss on Zenio earlier in this thread. Everyone though is probably lying though, SC2Con and NASL.
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Russian Federation19 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:36 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them This reeks of arrogance. The dollar sign goes before the '50'. Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy. 1/16 chance to win imaginary money? How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea? 60 days right? Actually, If knew anything about accounting or managing the cash flow of a project 60 days is pretty normal, and only slightly longer than standard practice.
Apparently, satire is invisible to those with low IQ's, I should had known better, forgive me.
User was warned for this post
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On August 12 2011 16:32 forgottendreams wrote:
So many shallow posts ignoring the bigger picture going on....
It's not about EG-Puma
It's not about greedy Koreans
It's not about travel expenses
It's about a hedgemony protecting their interests and remaining the two most important organizations. The GSL in Korea, the MLG in America which both are partnered by SC2Con who are doing the negotiations. Wake up...
pretty much this. gsl and mlg are also run by the reptilian anunaki race. wake up sheeple
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Ah, troll's ban. Peace.
Ultimately, the ones that hurt the most is the viewers. Hopefully something will be fixed for nasl s3. Sucks to see less Korean faces State-side.
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On August 12 2011 16:29 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:21 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:57 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 15:55 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote:
Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em. They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me. Because travel + prize money isn't cheaper. NASL doesn't have unlimited money Some people claimed it can go as low as 1.2k, which +500 is less than 2k. On the other hand, if NASL expects world's top SC2 players to spend ~3 months on event that could end up as a potential financial loss, due to the traveling costs, gl with that. The fact that Boxer made the same decision beforehand shows it's not just some Korean player organization at fault. In the end, all this is fine. Just the ambitions of NASL to be a global event are a bit reduced now. It would still be an interesting event to follow, regardless, of course. Similarly, there are some European events with quite high prizes that are not very global, but still quite fun. It's good to have variety. Oh give me a break. Its one best of three per week. Its not that fucking hard. And plane tickets are like $1200. Add in hotel and food and shuttle and your at around $1650 like NASL said earlier in this thread. NASL can't afford to cover all of that. They can afford to cover $1000 of that. Then they redistributed the prize pool so the bottom 8 each get $1000. This allows players to walk away, even if they lose right away, with about $350. There isn't a financial loss. This doesn't even factor in the exposure they gain by playing in NASL. Of course it is fine for Korean teams to not play in this, but one I think that should be a team decision, not sc2cons. Especially with some teams having deals with foreign teams (SK-oGs). And two they should have done this way long ago. Don't wait until the season has started. Another solution would be to reduce the prizes of the bottom to $350, but still offer full travel expenses covered. I'm pretty certain Koreans would have agreed to that. It seems to me they didn't want to sign up for anything that can't even guarantee the travel expenses.
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On August 12 2011 16:36 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:32 forgottendreams wrote:
So many shallow posts ignoring the bigger picture going on....
It's not about EG-Puma
It's not about greedy Koreans
It's not about travel expenses
It's about a hedgemony protecting their interests and remaining the two most important organizations. The GSL in Korea, the MLG in America which both are partnered by SC2Con who are doing the negotiations. Wake up... Dude stop it already, to say GSL and MLG/Sundance have anything to do with this is ridiculous.
Isn't Mr. Chae of GSL the spokeperson of the negotiations? I think you're extremely naive to think they both don't have a hand in this.
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[QUOTE]On August 12 2011 16:34 Makotoo wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:
I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them [/QUOTE]
This reeks of arrogance.
The dollar sign goes before the '50'.
Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy.
1/16 chance to win imaginary money?
How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea?
60 days right?
[/QUOTE]
Oh get off it. That article is sensationalist garbage.
The last time I checked, ALL grand finals players were subject to the same treatment at the live event, with the Koreans receiving special treatment including flights, hotel bookings, provided a translator, etc.
Yet I don't hear the EU players complaining. In fact, I hear the opposite.
I don't think even SC2Con would agree with some of the stuff that's been said in that article. And if they do, then it just further reinforces the belief that NASL is in the right here, SC2Con in the wrong.
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On August 12 2011 16:35 ThaTiger wrote:
What about MC and Nada? they are in SK when outside og korea, will they still be in it?
I'm really curious about MC. Nada had already withdrew from the tournament. But MC was supposed to be in it and I'm sure SK would pay for him to go. If he is prevented from going to NASL, sc2con is certainly up to something.
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Very lame news... I dont see why people are faultin NASL for this at all.
think i might watch less GSL because of this now.. this isn't broodwar the same reverance to Korean players should not exist it seems that they are trying to take the SC2 scene hostage and thats BAD for it really bad...
Hope this gets worked out
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On August 12 2011 16:37 AfterEleven wrote:Look on the bright side NASL lives up too their name now
No it doesnt, Europeans are not North Americans, Foreigners are not North Americans only.
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On August 12 2011 16:32 forgottendreams wrote:
So many shallow posts ignoring the bigger picture going on....
It's not about EG-Puma
It's not about greedy Koreans
It's not about travel expenses
It's about a hedgemony protecting their interests and remaining the two most important organizations. The GSL in Korea, the MLG in America which both are partnered by SC2Con who are doing the negotiations. Wake up...
greedy koreans? what makes you say that?
whos being greedy here
NASL which made huge amounts of money due to the koreans participating not willing to pay small amounts of money so that korean players can participate again.
or Koreans who spent their own money to get there only to be surprised by fucking terrible tournament management and expensive security deposit which hasnt even been paid back to the players, and now NASL is asking for more security deposit which is a fucking joke to start with... you are asking pro gamers to pay security deposits?? all the walkovers and stuff is due to the terrible tournament management not due to the PLAYERS.
User was banned for this post.
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How anyone can fault NASL in any of this is beyond me, they have done and do a lot of stupid shit but this is definitely not one of the things.
From the information available they have been very forthcoming and tried to make things work for everyone. Obviously they cant pay for the travel of Koreans specifically without doing the exact same thing for everyone else flying in to the grand finals. Competition needs to be fair no matter where you are from and one group of players cant expect to get special treatment.
It's just a shame that the Korean teams aren't as financially strong as the international teams.
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On August 12 2011 16:33 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. How are we (or u for that matter) that NASL didn't charge Zenio to pay for that $650? And it is $1000, not $2000. Half of that $2000 constitutes their tournament winning.
How do I know that? Because I actually read the thread. NASL.tv poster talks about it in the thread. And I know how much money it is did you even read my post?
People are claiming that NASL is trying to pay less than it did last year, which is a blatant lie. Thinkabout the stipend and the prize money for qualifying as a buffer. Last years buffer was 1000(500 stipend and 500 prize money for qualifying) while this year the buffer is 2000(1000 stipend and 1000 for qualifying). Its clear that NASL is trying everything within their budget to accommodate the koreans.
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EPT
