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699 Posts
On August 12 2011 09:03 BLCabeldank wrote:
that's so stupid... Mr. Chae has done nothing but hurt the foreign scene in my opinion... between his posts about foreign teams being scared to go to GSL to now this... $2000 per person was more than enough per person considering it's 4 times the original offer... well this sucks still going to watch the NASL should still be extremely cool
This is absolutely false. Mr.Chae works VERY HARD to unite the Korean and foreign scene. I've spoken to him extensively about this issue and others, and I consider him a friend of mine. He has tried to argue our case to the Korean teams. He has been nothing but helpful. Please, show your respect to GOMTV and Mr.Chae, they're truly trying to help make eSports more global! <3 Mr.Chae
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On August 12 2011 09:03 BLCabeldank wrote:
that's so stupid... Mr. Chae has done nothing but hurt the foreign scene in my opinion... between his posts about foreign teams being scared to go to GSL to now this... $2000 per person was more than enough per person considering it's 4 times the original offer... well this sucks still going to watch the NASL should still be extremely cool
Why are you blaming this all on Mr. Chae? He did nothing but relay the information between the two sides. I think is unfair that you criticize him when in the opener clearly says it was the SC2con's decision.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On August 12 2011 09:03 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:17 storm44 wrote:
How about you change your fuckin terrible format. One series and you get knocked out? Who gives a shit if you pay for all their expenses. They are not going to travel across the world only to play for 30 minutes. I think this was a huge factor in why they chose not to participate. This ^ For 2-3 months, the Koreans had to wake up at ungodly hours every week, play with lag disadvantage, then players like Boxer had to travel half way across the globe... all this to play two freakin games? And you're telling them that their full travel cost wont be covered? No wonder players like Boxer is withdrew...
Sadly there is truth to this.. I think ret had it worst of all tho TT!
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On August 12 2011 09:03 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:17 storm44 wrote:
How about you change your fuckin terrible format. One series and you get knocked out? Who gives a shit if you pay for all their expenses. They are not going to travel across the world only to play for 30 minutes. I think this was a huge factor in why they chose not to participate. This ^ For 2-3 months, the Koreans had to wake up at ungodly hours every week, play with lag disadvantage, then players like Boxer had to travel half way across the globe... all this to play two freakin games? And you're telling them that their full travel cost wont be covered? No wonder players like Boxer is withdrew...
What?
It's not about the format. If you don't like the format, don't sign up for qualifers to qualify into the league, don't sign paperwork, don't engage in talks, don't make NASL think that you're going to play in the NASL. It's that simple. That's why NesTea hasn't joined.
What the Koreans did was show all intention of playing in the league, they played in all the qualifiers, than back out at the last minute. If you had a problem with the format, you don't engage in behavior that makes it look like you're going to play in the league.
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Given that the NASL proposed compromise covers travel expenses, the issue must be the security deposit.
The Korean teams probably can't afford to shell out $500/player in advance, even if they get it back when they go to the Grand Finals. Most of the teams have either no sponsors, or very little sponsorship money, and they're struggling to feed themselves. Forking over $3000 months in advance of getting it back is probably too expensive for them.
Sucks for everyone, I'm sure the Koreans wanted to play and viewers wanted to see them. Hopefully when the Korean financial situation improves, they can afford to participate in NASL3 or 4.
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On August 12 2011 09:05 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:00 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:57 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 08:56 NASL.tv wrote:
We have absolutely no problem if the Koreans think the NASL is not worth their time // investment. Our only issue is the fact that they all: a) knew the contents of the contract, b) deliberately signed up players to qualify for the league, c) made demands, and d) waited until we already started the season to tell us that our offers to them were not acceptable. So are you going to address whether the security deposit was the true issue? We have already begun paying back all security deposits of players who are no longer in Season 2. Our contract states that all prizes will be paid within 60 days of the end of Season 1. We are still within that time frame, and will be paying all prizes within that period!
Artosis, HuK (who paid Boxer's deposit for S1), WeMadeFox, etc could all attest to the fact that we have and will pay our deposits back. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking: do Korean teams simply not have the cash to pay their new security deposits? Because considering the $2000 you're offering for travel costs, it seems like that is the true hang up to their participation. In that case I believe an exception should be made for the Koreans and their security deposits, since they had an exemplary record of playing all games on time in Season 1.
No. In that case they should've withdrawn several weeks ago already. There are several NA and EU players who showed up to all their games, what if they want an exception too?
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On August 12 2011 09:05 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:03 Fubi wrote:On August 12 2011 08:17 storm44 wrote:
How about you change your fuckin terrible format. One series and you get knocked out? Who gives a shit if you pay for all their expenses. They are not going to travel across the world only to play for 30 minutes. I think this was a huge factor in why they chose not to participate. This ^ For 2-3 months, the Koreans had to wake up at ungodly hours every week, play with lag disadvantage, then players like Boxer had to travel half way across the globe... all this to play two freakin games? And you're telling them that their full travel cost wont be covered? No wonder players like Boxer is withdrew... ^ i was just saying that... change the format, it's bad.
Or the Koreans could choose to not participate knowing this beforehand...its not like GSL allows for participation for those outside of Korea until the finals....
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Which Koreans are the most interesting ones to watch? Answer: the top ones ... all whom are likely to place in the top spots... Don't pay for accommodations and stuff but beef up the top price pools and make sure the bracket allow the players to advance without too much emphasis on luck... the skilled players would pressure their organization.
Why wouldn't NesTea and the other dudes want to join a skill based tournament with a crap ton of money for say top 5, those players are also likely to have strong team support or external sponsors for expenses.
Its not a short term solution though.
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On August 12 2011 09:03 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:17 storm44 wrote:
How about you change your fuckin terrible format. One series and you get knocked out? Who gives a shit if you pay for all their expenses. They are not going to travel across the world only to play for 30 minutes. I think this was a huge factor in why they chose not to participate. This ^ For 2-3 months, the Koreans had to wake up at ungodly hours every week, play with lag disadvantage, then players like Boxer had to travel half way across the globe... all this to play two freakin games? And you're telling them that their full travel cost wont be covered? No wonder players like Boxer is withdrew...
This.
It kinda ruins the competetive experience for me. I'm not gonna watch NASL, not even if they get Koreans. Waking up in the middle of the night to play with delay sucks.
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I guess this will "truly" be the north american starleague. This sucks that the koreans weren't willing to at compromise with the offers that were proposed.
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I would say that the Korean teams were in the wrong for pulling out with such late notice, but really think that NASL should consider changing the format, because it punishes just one bad series with a trip back home on a plane.
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Im actually really really happy about this, so we finally have a real western league  nice.
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This is very, very bad for eSports. Sad to hear this announcement. I wish NASL the best of luck with Season 2.
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SlayersBoxer mentioned how much better MLG was run and how much easier it was for him to play in one of the interviews at MLG. He did not say anything bad about NASL explicitly, but it was clear that he was not pleased with the way the NASL tournament was run.
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On August 12 2011 09:03 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:17 storm44 wrote:
How about you change your fuckin terrible format. One series and you get knocked out? Who gives a shit if you pay for all their expenses. They are not going to travel across the world only to play for 30 minutes. I think this was a huge factor in why they chose not to participate. This ^ For 2-3 months, the Koreans had to wake up at ungodly hours every week, play with lag disadvantage, then players like Boxer had to travel half way across the globe... all this to play two freakin games? And you're telling them that their full travel cost wont be covered? No wonder players like Boxer is withdrew...
They wake up early once a week for it. Its not that bad. Hell look at all the Korean players who play in the TL Opens that they stay up all night and into the morning for. If it was truly that bad, why do they do it?
NASL is giving them a minimum of $2,000. That is a damn good amount of money and covers the costs.
Even if the format changed, the amount of money paid out would be the same. And thats the problem here.
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699 Posts
On August 12 2011 09:05 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:00 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:57 Kraznaya wrote:On August 12 2011 08:56 NASL.tv wrote:
We have absolutely no problem if the Koreans think the NASL is not worth their time // investment. Our only issue is the fact that they all: a) knew the contents of the contract, b) deliberately signed up players to qualify for the league, c) made demands, and d) waited until we already started the season to tell us that our offers to them were not acceptable. So are you going to address whether the security deposit was the true issue? We have already begun paying back all security deposits of players who are no longer in Season 2. Our contract states that all prizes will be paid within 60 days of the end of Season 1. We are still within that time frame, and will be paying all prizes within that period!
Artosis, HuK (who paid Boxer's deposit for S1), WeMadeFox, etc could all attest to the fact that we have and will pay our deposits back. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking: do Korean teams simply not have the cash to pay their new security deposits? Because considering the $2000 you're offering for travel costs, it seems like that is the true hang up to their participation. In that case I believe an exception should be made for the Koreans and their security deposits, since they had an exemplary record of playing all games on time in Season 1.
Ensnare forfeited games twice. While in general, the Koreans were more professional about their participation that foreigners, it wasn't exemplary. I offered the Korean teams to talk to me personally if the deposits were a problem and we could work something out, but I heard no responses other than the same repeated ultimatum.
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And people going on about the format, seems kinda similar when foeigners win code A status and have one bo3 otherwise good luck requalifying through code b hell, tournaments dont need to be double elimination to be great, NASL had great finals IMO, and I find the format better that way because then all the matches can be broadcast and you dont have to miss out on what could be potentially awesome games like we do in MLG because there are hundreds of games played every day.
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Vatican City State334 Posts
Amusing how the topic "koreans are killing Esports" or whatever it was got closed, and then this happens. They know the western market is huge and want to milk the cow, and NASL just got cheesed. I'm sure NASL will still get a lot of viewers but it's a pretty big blow, maybe also a bit of a warning to not get too attached to korea. I can see why you only get a few players flying to each event with these high demands.
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$2000 is plenty of money, plus it's good overseas experience. im guessing that the travel time is considered a waste of good practice time.
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Meh it's unfortunate for NASL as I feel the quality of games and viewer-ship is going to degrade because of this, which they know because they bent over backwards trying to bring Koreans over.
I'm not surprised the Koreans wouldn't take the $2000 travel stipend. It cost me over $2500 to fly to Vegas(return) from Australia, so that might be a problem for them if the travel cost is similar. Not to mention visa issues too.
It's just too bad that a deal couldn't be struck with the Koreans. Like I said, the quality of the games and viewer-ship will, in my opinion, drastically lower this season. You see a lot of Korean-haters, but a poll about MLG and the finals showed that only the loud minority where the ones who voiced their opinion in relevant threads making it look like they were a majority, and everyone else was okay with the results, bar a few who didn't like all the TvT.
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EPT
