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Korean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 175
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
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JSy
149 Posts
On August 14 2011 10:28 jmbthirteen wrote: Ha don't be so naive. The community already rips NASL apart at every chance they get. If they came out saying Koreans aren't taking part in NASL season 2 because of failed negotiations they would get murdered by the community and would lose so many more viewers. This community demands transparency (which I think is a little ridiculous, but it does help keep organizations in line). You can't just say "failed negotiations" because everyone would demand to know where the break down was, especially after season 1 featured Korean players. I mean hell, people are looking at NASL in a terrible light here when they haven't even done anything wrong and tried to keep the Koreans in the NASL. This is true, but I'm saying there is a way to do things without getting egg on ANYONE's face. The result of the attempt at transparency has people rushing to arms to defend NASL or S2CON or the Korean teams, etc. Regardless of who is in the right or wrong, as long as it isn't an egregious offence (this is a business offence, a violation of contract, not some conspiracy or game fixing or cheating, etc.). Both parties have come to the point that Koreans are withdrawing. A joint statement saying that this was due to unfortunate circumstances on both sides, saying it was just a result of circumstance and nothing more, could avoid causing an uproar from both communities and leaving a bad impression of NASL/S2CON for everyone. Side note, hopefully NASL will be able to recuperate damages caused by the Korean teams withdrawing in violation of their contract. I don't know. Maybe that still is too naive. I've been lurking TL for a while but admittedly haven't been involved in and chose to avoid some of the more hotly argued threads.  | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:34 Slider954 wrote: Hmm just realized that there is no way to report posts. Or if there is I'm not seeing it There is, but you can only do it once you have been around long enough (I think a year + a certain amount of posts). | ||
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JSy
149 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:31 whateverpeeps wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 14 2011 10:04 JSy wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with this summation of the situation. For almost any other organization, there is absolutely no reason to delve into details about the discussion had (PRIVATELY I might add) between two parties that were essentially a contract negation. (Of course the Korean players all signed contracts before bringing up the negotiations so NASL would be well within their rights to flat-out deny any requests.) Unfortunately, it feels like NASL has received so much flack from the community during season 1 relating to, among many other issues, secrecy, that they felt it necessary to address those criticisms in their initial announcement. Note to NASL, don't worry or mind about the haters. It's amazing that you are a grass-roots community tournament that is continuing the try to stay close to the community, but sometimes you need to put on a corporate face if only to protect your relationships with other organizations (like the Korean teams in this case). The reasonable will understand, and the unreasonable will come around eventually as long as you are able to keep providing great content. Whenever there is a disagremeent between two companies, that leads to two companies parting ways, there is ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, an official statement. I don't see why you think this should be different for NASL. They have an obligation to notify their fans and subscribers, and a right to protect their brand from wrongly directed hate and abuse. If SC2Con doesn't like being caught in a hailstorm of hate, perhaps they should change how they do business. Sometimes things like this are the only ways to motivate the desire to change. And businesses in a relatively small and secluded market realize that they will still continue to have to do business with each other, even if one violates a contract at one point. I'm not saying they didn't need to make an announcement or official statement about what happened. But that there is a way to do it without making a stain on your relationship with said other organization. Now, if NASL really thought S2CON were a bunch of scumbags that they don't want to do business with ever again, sure, a completely open account of what happens is fine even if it does paint S2CON in a bad light. Otherwise, most companies find a way to amicably settle disputes and not air one another's dirty laundry in public. My post above to roughly the same effect. And I'll just say again, maybe I don't understand how public relations works on TL, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:31 whateverpeeps wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 14 2011 10:04 JSy wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with this summation of the situation. For almost any other organization, there is absolutely no reason to delve into details about the discussion had (PRIVATELY I might add) between two parties that were essentially a contract negation. (Of course the Korean players all signed contracts before bringing up the negotiations so NASL would be well within their rights to flat-out deny any requests.) Unfortunately, it feels like NASL has received so much flack from the community during season 1 relating to, among many other issues, secrecy, that they felt it necessary to address those criticisms in their initial announcement. Note to NASL, don't worry or mind about the haters. It's amazing that you are a grass-roots community tournament that is continuing the try to stay close to the community, but sometimes you need to put on a corporate face if only to protect your relationships with other organizations (like the Korean teams in this case). The reasonable will understand, and the unreasonable will come around eventually as long as you are able to keep providing great content. Whenever there is a disagremeent between two companies, that leads to two companies parting ways, there is ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, an official statement. I don't see why you think this should be different for NASL. They have an obligation to notify their fans and subscribers, and a right to protect their brand from wrongly directed hate and abuse. If SC2Con doesn't like being caught in a hailstorm of hate, perhaps they should change how they do business. Sometimes things like this are the only ways to motivate the desire to change. That's true, but if you paid closer attention you would notice that such statements almost never contain details on the substance of negotiations. It would be considered highly unprofessional in most business settings, and is a good way to ensure people don't even want to get into negotiations with you in the first place in the future. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:44 Lord_J wrote: That's true, but if you paid closer attention you would notice that such statements almost never contain details on the substance of negotiations. It would be considered highly unprofessional in most business settings, and is a good way to ensure people don't even want to get into negotiations with you in the first place in the future. I don't see how NASL could have avoided releasing what it did without upsetting 80% of their market, which they have every right to avoid. You are acting as if they aired out every single detail. You don't know that. All we've been provided with is general numbers...what they offered and what resulted. They never said or led anyone to assumethat SC2Con are scumbags...only the general details of the negotiations. Not even quotes from either party. If that makes SC2Con look bad, well, again, whose fault is that? And I keep hearing this claim that this will make people not want to do negotiations with them. Really, how do you figure? Most companies would never find themselves in this situation to begin with. If anyone stands to lose on the business side of things, it's SC2Con and the teams involved as they don't seem to be keen on honoring contracts. | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:44 Lord_J wrote: That's true, but if you paid closer attention you would notice that such statements almost never contain details on the substance of negotiations. It would be considered highly unprofessional in most business settings, and is a good way to ensure people don't even want to get into negotiations with you in the first place in the future. Like I posted before, maybe NASL felt that they didn't have the credibility or cache of MLG or DreamHack with the fans yet to get away with that kind of statement. I can't say I fault them for that if that's the case. I mean look at how fans ripped on them last season (alot of it rightfully so) and even now with this, people are still attacking them. They could be looking at it like, "Well we have to earn the communitys trust and respect." | ||
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JSy
149 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:53 Slider954 wrote: Like I posted before, maybe NASL felt that they didn't have the credibility or cache of MLG or DreamHack with the fans yet to get away with that kind of statement. I can't say I fault them for that if that's the case. I mean look at how fans ripped on them last season (alot of it rightfully so) and even now with this, people are still attacking them. They could be looking at it like, "Well we have to earn the communitys trust and respect." Unfortunate, but it may indeed be the truth of the matter. | ||
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SargonTheGreat
United States217 Posts
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 14 2011 12:50 SargonTheGreat wrote: I am completely fine with supporting the NASL even if they decide to be solely NA players participating. Don't you guys realize that sc has protential to be a true sport unlike any other video game? What is wrong with small nit community tournaments they will only encourage more play and more professional play at that. We have to combine our desire for good international tournaments (involving koreans) with our desire for sc2 to be a lasting sport that supports it's professional players. I think that we need more organizations like NASL, some that will support localized tournaments and others international.....the only reason ya'll desire korean players in this tourny in the first place is because no other country fully supports it's pro players....it's the 21'st century let's get on this! Um you do realize that the true sports, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL have players from all over the world not just one country. Plus the reason we want Korean players in NASL is because they are arguably the best players in the world ATM and we want to see them go up against the best of NA and EU. | ||
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hmmm...
632 Posts
On August 14 2011 12:58 Slider954 wrote: Um you do realize that the true sports, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL have players from all over the world not just one country. Plus the reason we want Korean players in NASL is because they are arguably the best players in the world ATM and we want to see them go up against the best of NA and EU. that's hardly arguable. lmao | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
Um you do realize that the true sports, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL have players from all over the world not just one country. Those aren't sports; those are organizations. Basketball is a sport; the NBA is an organization that has several teams in the sport of basketball. Basketball is still basketball, even if it's NCAA Division 1, High School, or whatever. March Madness is still March Madness even if it only features college students. | ||
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yiodee
United States137 Posts
NASL gave them a good offer, it is not fair that they spit on it like that | ||
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TheCrimsonReaper
United States167 Posts
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254635#1 | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On August 14 2011 14:43 yiodee wrote: So they have been stealing prizes from foreign tournaments for months and now they are getting picky. NASL gave them a good offer, it is not fair that they spit on it like that Don't blame the players for management decisions. | ||
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.Justice
United States5 Posts
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MattyClutch
United States711 Posts
If we are lucky maybe they will change their minds on this like they did with the C Lee thing. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
They have distanced themselves from the NASL-SC2Con drama (wisely, I think). But the actions that FXO accuses of SC2Con taking seem to coincide with the actions that have been taken in the NASL situation. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254635 | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On August 14 2011 15:42 whateverpeeps wrote: Apparently, FXO has just quit SC2Con. They have distanced themselves from the NASL-SC2Con drama (wisely, I think). But the actions that FXO accuses of SC2Con taking seem to coincide with the actions that have been taken in the NASL situation. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254635 Not before mentioning that apparently it really wasn't sc2con behind the master plan. On August 14 2011 14:20 FXOpen wrote: and Because teams not in sc2con are also taking the same action.... And there is a reason those teams arent in sc2con..... Sc2con had a limited 'helping hand' with the NASL debacle.. On August 14 2011 14:25 FXOpen wrote: There is alot of stuff re: NASL that I cant talk about as its heresay. But I can tell you that sc2con is only an 'organising party' in this situation. They did not spread or enforce anything to do with it. Emphasis on the last sentence! | ||
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