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On August 15 2011 03:56 gehgrfhgrh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 03:49 aztrorisk wrote: definitely reasonable.
Koreans just forfeited their chance to win the prize money.
Their lost. Bullshit. NASL will lose 1000times more money than the the Koreans. NASL without Koreans is like WNBA. There's still gunna be puma, and Rain. Non-sc2con koreans will still play.
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On August 15 2011 04:07 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 03:56 gehgrfhgrh wrote:On August 15 2011 03:49 aztrorisk wrote: definitely reasonable.
Koreans just forfeited their chance to win the prize money.
Their lost. Bullshit. NASL will lose 1000times more money than the the Koreans. NASL without Koreans is like WNBA. There's still gunna be puma, and Rain. Non-sc2con koreans will still play.
False. WeMadeFox, TSL, Slayers, FXO <--- members not in S2Con. All withdrew.
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On August 15 2011 03:16 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 22:45 common_cider wrote:Example of Korean player playing in Season 2: -Pay $500 NOW receive $500 4 ½ months later-BAD -Playing matches at unpleasant times with lag-BAD -Win a lot during the season= Grand Finals trip with: Travel stipend of $1,000 Round trip plane ticket Korea to America (~$1500) Transportation to and from airport+food+lodging+other costs (~$500) A player who does exceptionally well in the league has LOST ~$1,000 until NASL pays prize money sometime 60 days after the season is over. Many Koreans teams and players are very tight on cash When all is said and done, I predict NASL will be made to look bad for two reasons: 1. Promptness of payments- The contracts players signed before NASL Season 1 explicitly state that prize money would be awarded within 60 days upon completion of the season. However, this is an unreasonable amount of time to delay payouts. They still have 20+ days to payout prize money from Season 1, but it looks awful when your league is taking so damn long to payout players. Even if you make it clear that you have 60 days to dish-out prize money and repay security deposits, your only asking for trouble when players are not paid promptly. 2. Security Deposit- Season 1 had a $250 deposit Due March 20th. When a WeMadeFox player withdrew from Season 2, WMF was refunded in full August 8th. The 250$ was held by NASL ~ 4 ½ months. NASL is fully within their right to do this, but it's an unpleasant part of the league from a player perspective. Now a player has to put up $500 to play in the league for Season 2. From past precedent, a player will be -$500 for at least 4 ½ months to participate in the league. I am not here to say NASL is in the wrong or breaking any rules. Rather my point is that if you put yourself in the shoes of a Korean player, the upfront costs coupled with lengthy payout wait times is not acceptable to you. It is likely that you will have NEGATIVE $500-2,000 for a long period of time before receiving prize money The prize money total is NOT the issue. Koreans made $80,000+ in prize money from Season 1. The issue is having NEGATIVE money for many months until being paid. This is a HUGE problem. I think NASL should restructure payouts and security deposits to ease the upfront financial burden on teams and players. I dunno about you, but I've had to put a security deposit down on my apartment, which is around 500 dollars. I'm not complaining about it, and Koreans shouldn't either.
Apples to oranges that is way different
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On August 15 2011 03:16 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 22:45 common_cider wrote:Example of Korean player playing in Season 2: -Pay $500 NOW receive $500 4 ½ months later-BAD -Playing matches at unpleasant times with lag-BAD -Win a lot during the season= Grand Finals trip with: Travel stipend of $1,000 Round trip plane ticket Korea to America (~$1500) Transportation to and from airport+food+lodging+other costs (~$500) A player who does exceptionally well in the league has LOST ~$1,000 until NASL pays prize money sometime 60 days after the season is over. Many Koreans teams and players are very tight on cash When all is said and done, I predict NASL will be made to look bad for two reasons: 1. Promptness of payments- The contracts players signed before NASL Season 1 explicitly state that prize money would be awarded within 60 days upon completion of the season. However, this is an unreasonable amount of time to delay payouts. They still have 20+ days to payout prize money from Season 1, but it looks awful when your league is taking so damn long to payout players. Even if you make it clear that you have 60 days to dish-out prize money and repay security deposits, your only asking for trouble when players are not paid promptly. 2. Security Deposit- Season 1 had a $250 deposit Due March 20th. When a WeMadeFox player withdrew from Season 2, WMF was refunded in full August 8th. The 250$ was held by NASL ~ 4 ½ months. NASL is fully within their right to do this, but it's an unpleasant part of the league from a player perspective. Now a player has to put up $500 to play in the league for Season 2. From past precedent, a player will be -$500 for at least 4 ½ months to participate in the league. I am not here to say NASL is in the wrong or breaking any rules. Rather my point is that if you put yourself in the shoes of a Korean player, the upfront costs coupled with lengthy payout wait times is not acceptable to you. It is likely that you will have NEGATIVE $500-2,000 for a long period of time before receiving prize money The prize money total is NOT the issue. Koreans made $80,000+ in prize money from Season 1. The issue is having NEGATIVE money for many months until being paid. This is a HUGE problem. I think NASL should restructure payouts and security deposits to ease the upfront financial burden on teams and players. I dunno about you, but I've had to put a security deposit down on my apartment, which is around 500 dollars. I'm not complaining about it, and Koreans shouldn't either. And when you move out you expect to get your money back within a week, no? Or do you not mind waiting 2 months to get it back?
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Just a thought. NASL could just let those 14 Korean players play another match and pay full trip for 7 players. $1000 they were willing to spend x 14. $14000 $2000 to cover trips of 7 people. $14000 Only if they make it to the Finals.
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On August 15 2011 03:27 seiferoth10 wrote: Basically, Koreans want 0 monetary risk when participating in foreign tournaments. Which I find quite ironic because they wonder why foreign participation in the GSL is low.
Hint: it's too much of a monetary risk for foreigners.
Korean are just afraid playing against Foreign players :D
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Koreans need to figure it out then. Europeans have been traveling to the USA for tournaments in all SORTS of games perfectly fine for years.
Payouts, have never been PROMPT, the day of, or extremely quick. It's just the nature of the beast and how it works, period.
If Korea wants to partake in foreign affairs, then it's give and take, NOT TAKE all and EXPECT everything to go your way, it's not how it is.
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One thing to consider is that korean teams gain almost nothing from participating in foreign leagues. Actually, they have trouble securing sponsors to pay their players a salary. And now they prevent them from playing for one of the largest prizepools in the world. It's a shame the best players have the most amateur management, wish enough foreign teams step up to properly compensate them.
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this is so sad ... wanted so much to see the big name coming in NA T_T fuuuuuuu
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On August 15 2011 04:07 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 03:56 gehgrfhgrh wrote:On August 15 2011 03:49 aztrorisk wrote: definitely reasonable.
Koreans just forfeited their chance to win the prize money.
Their lost. Bullshit. NASL will lose 1000times more money than the the Koreans. NASL without Koreans is like WNBA. There's still gunna be puma, and Rain. Non-sc2con koreans will still play. hahahah lolz at wnba joke.
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I wonder who took the bigger punch here... my bet would be NASL.
We see how nasl s2 will turn out.
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Let's continue to support NASL2 without the Koreans.
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On August 14 2011 17:20 Slider954 wrote: To me, one telling fact in what influence SC2Con has, perceived or otherwise, is the statement FXOBoss made in the other thread
Our discussions are with sC and choya mostly, and it has alot to do with whether they feel comfortable going against the trend from teams who are most willingly not participating in the NASL
Why would they have to feel comfortable going against the trend from the other teams? Are they afraid of repercussions if they do go? If they want to go, they should go. It doesn't matter what the other teams are doing, unless there is pressuring going on from the other teams.
Exactly! this needs to be answered
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On the one hand, orgs like sc2con are there to give the players one strong voice, like a labor org, so that they move together for their common interest. It should improve the terms and conditions of their profession.
On the other hand, it appears (appears) that NASL really gave it their best. But take note, always take note, that you're hearing this story from the op ONLY from NASL's side.
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yup. NASL has been in full force whining about it with Xeris feeding the flames. Regardless of what happened, it doesn't look classy for them to air their grievance in this manner.
But the organization has kinda made iffy decisions since day 1, and you can tell their professionalism by the quality of their work. No doubt, it was a huge task to co-ordinate events suchs as their first tournament and I'm sure their support staff put in the hours, but can anyone say that it was well-organized, well planned or even well executed?
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Really sucks to see this happen! I was looking forward to some good foreigner/KR competition! It makes it somewhat worse that this happened so close to the start of the tournament. None the less, I can't wait for NASL S2! Liquid'Hero fighting!
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Oh thats really sad ... but now foreigners have a chance to win the big money
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I bought first season of NASL to support it, but I wasn't sure I was going to buy season two even before this incident. I might buy this season though if you can get dimaga to participate though... (this is a bribe)
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Sorry, edited, i copy and pasted what i wrote on a different thread, it was meant for a different thread.
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Isn't this so utterly sad? Damnit, it would be cool to see all those great Korean players play in the NASL, given also that I did not really follow the first season. This sucks.
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