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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
There is only one simple thing to know here: The korean teams SIGNED THEIR CONTRACTS. Then, they BREACHED THEIR CONTRACTS. After the qualifiers had started! I mean, what? Now unless they have a very good excuse for that (and the travel costs issues they should have thought of BEFORE signing) then SC2Con is just pulling a huge douchebaggy move, and deserves all the flak it's going to get. End of story. | ||
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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:49 Misanthrophic13 wrote: Learn to comprehend please, Mr. Chae is the mediator between the Korean Teams and NASL. The Korean teams made it very clear to Mr. Chae that they want NO connection with the NASL. Which is why they haven't responded to your ludicrous 'demands'. And Mr Chae was pleading with them to reconsider. | ||
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Misanthrophic13
Bahrain22 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:56 jmbthirteen wrote: And Mr Chae was pleading with them to reconsider. Good luck trying to make hardened Koreans with herd mentality reconsider. The fact of the matter is, you can whine and complain all you want. It will not change the opinions of SC2con. User was banned for this post. | ||
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Deshkar
Singapore1244 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:49 DannyJ wrote: Ugh the NASL was a mess since day 1. qft. atleast MLG has been constantly improving their act, and stabilizing . Koreans have expressed interests in foreign tournaments, and have participated in many, including recent ones MLG, Homestory, Dreamhack, IEM, CPL etc etc. They have only treated NASL vastly differently. Perhaps the tournament format, and poor experience from S1 must have been considerably worse than expected to the Koreans, as compared to the possible financial incentives of the prizes. | ||
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muddymuddy
United States22 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:46 Teriyaki-Boy wrote: Exactly, i dont expect them to respond right away and am sure as hell not gonna believe every thing Nasl is stating neither. Perhaps you should take a look at the posts made under the NASL account, or take a look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253928. It appears that certain people have made allegations against NASL's conduct that were far from true. NASL not only responded to the allegations, but provided hard core evidence in support of their statements. I would say so far, in this situation, NASL has presented itself as being fairly trustworthy. Not to mention the price for lying about a thing such as breach of contracts is too steep to ignore. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:38 Cyrak wrote: Let me put it simply: the difference between watching Puzzle vs. Morrow and MC vs. Nestea is not the same as the difference between Idra vs. TT1 and MC vs. Nestea. There is a threshold that separates the low to mid-end play of the foreign scene from the higher level European players and the Koreans. It is a threshold that is easily discernible to anyone who watches SC2 and takes it seriously. Yeah, absolutely. I guess I'm weird, but I have no home bias, I just want to see the best players. And though I always had a soft spot in my heart for US/Canadian players, let's face it, I always found it weird that it was "foreigners" vs "Koreans". Swedes are just as foreign as Koreans to me, just like an American would be just as foreign to a Swede. Watching the BNet Invitational today has really left me unsatisfied. I feel that the quality of the games is much lower, there are many more mistakes, and the gap is widening. I guess I'm just getting spoiled, but I am really not entertained by a game where it's "epic" because both sides make continual errors to let the other side back into the game. | ||
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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:58 Deshkar wrote: Perhaps the tournament format, and poor experience from S1 must have been considerably worse than expected to the Koreans, as compared to the possible financial incentives of the prizes. If that is the case then why did they sign for season 2 and pull out after the qualifiers were already going on? Seriously... NASL may not be the most amazing production, but as far as this story is concerned, the korean teams are definitely the ones being unprofessional. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 13 2011 06:58 AsnSensation wrote: I just figured that catz has to be the big man behind NASL, no koreans in the NORTH AMERICAN star league, which means if things stay like this, there will be the first major tournament a foreigner takes down and cashes huge amounts ...... or puma again There are going to be Koreans...Puma, Rain, HuK, these guys probably just got a boner realizing like 2/3 of their competition just up and left lol. On August 13 2011 06:04 KanoCoke wrote: I felt that the Koreans were being a little too unreasonable with their demands, like Phoenix was when he was to join team Reign. SlayerS seems to be the only team that's decent, and what do you know, they're not part of the SC2Con. To be fair, while SlayerS did not pull the contract stunt, they did withdraw for the same reasons. So it's not SC2Con being the only ones feeling slighted. They just chose to respond to their season 1 treatment with a completely out of line power play. On August 13 2011 06:06 Plume wrote: Darn, hope we still see the SlayerS` Blueflame + Marine drop! Those were fairly epic! Too bad we wont see any possible new korean strategies at NASL. Unless Rain and Puma do it, there won't be any Korean SlayerS Blueflame play. As far as I know, when BoxeR withdrew, he probably took the team with him. Although I would love to be proven wrong in this. | ||
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rabitslayer
Canada24 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:58 Misanthrophic13 wrote: Good luck trying to make hardened Koreans with herd mentality reconsider. The fact of the matter is, you can whine and complain all you want. It will not change the opinions of SC2con. No one ever said it will, but you need to try. All I'm saying is the Mr Chae is trying to help NASL here. He is a great figure in ESPORTS and I would hate to see his name drug down into this as a bad guy because he certainly isn't. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:59 AllHailCommonSense wrote: If that is the case then why did they sign for season 2 and pull out after the qualifiers were already going on? Seriously... NASL may not be the most amazing production, but as far as this story is concerned, the korean teams are definitely the ones being unprofessional. Given we only have one side of the story, how do you know? There has to be a reason why they're doing this. As pointed out, the only ones actually hurt by this are the members of the Korean teams. Did all the slayers players pull out, too? Is every Korean out of the tournament or just some of them? | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
NASL.TV: This is absolutely false. Mr.Chae works VERY HARD to unite the Korean and foreign scene. I've spoken to him extensively about this issue and others, and I consider him a friend of mine. He has tried to argue our case to the Korean teams. He has been nothing but helpful. Please, show your respect to GOMTV and Mr.Chae, they're truly trying to help make eSports more global! <3 Mr.Chae. And no I don't have any affiliation with NASL. I'm just a esports fan who is getting extremely tired and fed up with the drama and politics lately. From this to the Coach Lee situation to the recent Destructoid article, its getting very wearying. | ||
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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:05 iamthedave wrote: Given we only have one side of the story, how do you know? There has to be a reason why they're doing this. As pointed out, the only ones actually hurt by this are the members of the Korean teams. Did all the slayers players pull out, too? Is every Korean out of the tournament or just some of them? Until SC2Con releases a statement to counter the claim that the teams had signed for season 2, I believe NASL representatives. No reason they would go ahead and just make that up. It would backfire way too hard if they lied on that particular issue. As far as Slayers goes, they pulled out earlier and either didn't sign at all or at least left before the games started. They left honorably. | ||
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TooL
Canada275 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:58 muddymuddy wrote: Perhaps you should take a look at the posts made under the NASL account, or take a look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253928. It appears that certain people have made allegations against NASL's conduct that were far from true. NASL not only responded to the allegations, but provided hard core evidence in support of their statements. I would say so far, in this situation, NASL has presented itself as being fairly trustworthy. Not to mention the price for lying about a thing such as breach of contracts is too steep to ignore. That's pretty much what it comes down to. You can't really lie about something like that because people are 100% going to ask for proof eventually. And there's absolutely no way to defend breach of contract. If you don't agree, don't sign the paper and go straight to the bargaining table. If not, don't sign, try to renegotiate and the pull out. On August 13 2011 07:59 AllHailCommonSense wrote: If that is the case then why did they sign for season 2 and pull out after the qualifiers were already going on? Seriously... NASL may not be the most amazing production, but as far as this story is concerned, the korean teams are definitely the ones being unprofessional. They were free to pull out after qualifiers. Up until the point the submit the signed contracts to NASL, they have every right to do so. Qualifiers are not binding. What's wrong is they signed contracts and then pulled out like a week later. Yes, maybe if they never signed the contracts and pulled out, it would have been just as bad for NASL but in that case, they would have had every right to do so. They forfeited that right with that contract unless there is a clause allowing them to back out. On August 13 2011 08:05 Slider954 wrote: This is from earlier in the thread NASL.TV: This is absolutely false. Mr.Chae works VERY HARD to unite the Korean and foreign scene. I've spoken to him extensively about this issue and others, and I consider him a friend of mine. He has tried to argue our case to the Korean teams. He has been nothing but helpful. Please, show your respect to GOMTV and Mr.Chae, they're truly trying to help make eSports more global! <3 Mr.Chae. And no I don't have any affiliation with NASL. I'm just a esports fan who is getting extremely tired and fed up with the drama and politics lately. From this to the Coach Lee situation to the recent Destructoid article, its getting very wearying. This. I don't understand how anyone can fault Mr. Chae and GOM for this. He's not the head of SC2con. He's only acting as mediator. And I don't know if anyone realize this but (partnership with MLG aside), GOM has taken steps above and beyond just about anything a foreign tournament has done to accommodate outsiders. Just look at how much they bent over for Nani, Sase, Thorzain, and Jinro. | ||
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AllHailCommonSense
22 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:11 TooL wrote: Does it say anywhere that they signed contracts for season 2? Yes, read the thread, it's been covered already. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:11 TooL wrote: Does it say anywhere that they signed contracts for season 2? NASL posted that they did with some dates either in this thread or the thread with the TIG article | ||
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Deshkar
Singapore1244 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:59 AllHailCommonSense wrote: If that is the case then why did they sign for season 2 and pull out after the qualifiers were already going on? Seriously... NASL may not be the most amazing production, but as far as this story is concerned, the korean teams are definitely the ones being unprofessional. That is why I feel something is still left untold in this "saga". Why was the NASL situation so different for the Koreans compared to the tons of other international tournaments that they've been participating in? It is not as if they have left or are leaving all foreign/global tournaments en masse, just this one, the NASL, why? NASL does offer a very sizable prize pool, but yet the Korean teams are strongly opposed to the league, why? What is the actual/accurate reason for the differing treatment given towards the NASL? Hopefully SC2Con, Mr Chae or a Korean insider will give us a clear formal response. While there are some who enjoy watching home grown/local progamers duke out for a title, without being overrun by an external/dominant force (koreans). There are many as well who view the progamers as individuals or even representatives of their races(TPZ), not view each match as country v country, but rather player v player/race v race. We want to watch the best Starcraft II games especially given the prize pools. A tournament prestige and starpower comes from its prize pool, production and most importantly its players. You can not call a tournament, a top-tier/premier tournament if you have a very significant section of the top players not even competing. While I may still watch some of the games (for some players) or part of the finals, I know that a large part of the tournament hype/competition has died given the drastically lowered playing field from before, it is an unavoidable feeling. All in all , this has been a lose-lose situation for almost everyone involved, fans, tournament organizers, players, sponsors ... ): | ||
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