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On August 12 2011 16:53 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:48 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 16:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:36 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:
[quote]
That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. People before you have already pointed out that the part of their expenses being paid is wrong. But no, you can't count that as "having lost 650". The 500 dollars of prize money is just that: prize money, something that was already going to be paid. The players just found that the NASL wasn't worth all the crap for just that amount. And nowhere did I say 350< 0. Learn reading comprehension before you post nonsense. You just don't get it do you. The NASL never offered to pay for all the players out of their own pockets, that's why they have teams, to send them to tournaments. What NASL did do was offer a substantial amount of money and increase their lower end prize pool to make sure nobody lost money on this, if the koreans didn't find it worth their time they shouldn't have played in qualifiers. And you said that it was the NASL who is trying to pay less than they did before which is a blatant lie, so maybe it is you who needs some reading comprehension. Apparently Koreans did raise objection to NASL, and both sides are at fault if anything for not reaching a mutual acceptance before the qualifiers ended. Except that the koreans still played in the qualifiers, not issuing this ultimatum of theirs until they were over.
Well then NASL should've either stopped the players from further participating in the qualifiers at that point (if SC2Con raised their objection after the qualifers got started) or meet their demand earlier on?
Both parties are at fault for this mess.
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On August 12 2011 16:55 Enigmatarius wrote:
Honestly, I think that's just gotten greedy. Teams should be paying for the travel expenses and accommodation. That's why they exist.
Not too happy to hear about this, but it does raise an interesting point that it'll open the door for more NA, European and Oceanic players to get their feet into the top ranks. As much as I liked NASL Season 1, it was still pretty much Korean dominated.
Hopefully in a few seasons, NASL will reach the point where the Koreans teams come back and put their own money on the table for travel and accommodation.
Don't count on it. I wouldn't be surprised if NASL just started inviting people back from season 1 to fill the spots instead of turning to qualifiers. I would joke about Artosis getting into season 2, but I don't think it's that farfetched of an idea. -_-
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This is a shame for the Korean players that qualified though, I'm sure the likes of MC would like to compete in this? (I assume he was qualified for season 2) I hope Complexity, TL and FXO can find a way to bring their Korean players over.
The only "positive" thing is that more of the games will be fairly even now. Even if they're not GSL code S level, they could be very entertaining regardless. Looking forward to NASL season 2 anyway if they fix their VOD issue. =)
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On August 12 2011 16:47 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:44 jellyjello wrote:On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. NASL did not buy tickets for Korean players. The players themselves had to buy their own tickets. On top of that, there are claims that the security deposits from S1 aren't still returned back to the Koreans. See here. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=Hope someone translates this commentary for everyone to see - more fuel to already heated debate! Burn baby burn!!!!! ...Uh, that's not true. And you are repeatedly corrected, as is the article, yet for some reason you feel compelled to spam it. Did you write it or something? It's bull crap. It's not an official statement, makes no sense, is sensationalist, and has not a shred of proof. If half of what the article alleges is true, we would have heard from it, not just form the Koreans, but from the EU players, who are all satisfied and happy to return to NASL. As are most of the Korean players, had they not been banned from playing by a committee who no one is sure what they're trying to achieve because what they're doing makes no sense.
For fucks sake, forgive me for not fucking reading 100+ pages of every single post. Who would've thought it was already posted and for fucks sake offending someone like you by posting it again.
What I said was purely from that article. If it was proven false, then just say it - I did not know. Not really sure what the hell you are trying to prove here.
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On August 12 2011 16:49 Slider954 wrote:
Again NASL already stated that all deposits and payments would be made within 60 days of the season ending and it HASN'T BEEN 60 days yet. And they have already payed some of the money out. So please stop with the whole OMG MONEY HASN'T BEEN PAID YET herp derp!! 60 days is a very standard time period for payments, go look at most contests and read the fine print and you'll see that they'll say please allow 2 months for delivery of whatever the prize is. 2 months=60 days
So, either the Koreans are ignorant or they're lying to try and curry favor. Earlier someone told the NASL to "stay classy."
I think we can turn that back around pretty safely.
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Trust NASL to make a completely bias statement that creates 104 pages of speculation and premature judgement within 8 hours.
When will you organisations learn to keep your fucking opinions to yourself and respect other people's decisions?
In any case, pretty sad news. I never watched the NASL except the finals but it's still a pretty big blow. I guess this stuff just happens, you can't make SC2 truly global without the money to support it.
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I posted this in the other thread, but will do so here as well:
I bring you a statement by Mr Chae, head of GOM, who is also part of the SC2Con:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225324
Chae Jung Won, the head of GomTV manage team "Can't understand foreigner's rejection"
GSL Super Tournament begins in coming May 23rd with top 64 GSL point rankers.
Super tournament has made issues by making competition of both code A and code S players, but unfortunately many foreigners, except Chris 'Huk' Loranger and Jonathan 'Jinro' Walsh, has rejected invitations.
Lots of foreign fans complain and criticize about such news, and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans.' Also the manager of team Fnatic complained that "the invitaion of Super Tournament from GomTV came out in rush."
PlayXP was able to hear opinion of Chae Jung Won, the head of Manage team in GomTV (also main caster of GSL), during presentation of new format change of GSL in May 19th. Mr. Chae said, "We gave the same amount of warning time as we did with World Championship. I do not understand the reason of rejection since they were able to participate in World Championship."
The prize of participating World Championship was about 3,000,000 Won. (about 2700 USD) But in Super Tournament, if you qualify RO32 you will be guaranteed to have 1,000,000 Won. (about 900 USD) Of course you can't be sure until you hear from players, the prize pool , the chance of winning the tournament, and the travel cost are the most probable reason to reject invitation.
In fact, Dmytro 'Dimaga' Filipchuk spoke during the interview after World Championship that "It is very difficult to stay in Korea for long term since I have a girl friend and family. There are many online tournaments in Europe. That is why playing in Europe is much better choice for me."
Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S."
About question of making barrier for players in code A to promote in code S through Up and Down match, he said "The ability of player is what they can make win in Up and Down match. If you lose your Up and Down match, then you can't advance to code S. But we made change so winner of code A can advance without Up and Down match."
Written by: Lee Si Woo (siwoo@playxp.com)
(C) PlayXP
The money that a player earns for even making to the ro32 of the ST is LESS than what the teams would get from qualifying for the NASL finals and Mr Chae "Can't understand foreigner's rejection".
There are certainly valid reasons for non-NASL participation but to blame it on travel fees smacks of double standards.
On the flip-side, I didn't appreciate NASL's hostile stance on the matter and their slow handling of money.
Still, I believe NASL is going to struggle to survive without the koreans. They can do so, but I think that after the first 3 seasons, the prize money would need to be reduced.
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On August 12 2011 15:57 shadymmj wrote:
Guys don't be retarded, NASL presents what is clearly a very one sided account of the issue and suddenly Americans think that they are they best thing since sliced bread?
There are many koreans who are willing to compete for fame and just a little bit of the prize money. It is odd that the entire korean organisation (except for the few exceptions) is getting the fuck out of it. Not just withdrawal of their best players, which is understandable, but a total, complete withdrawal.
Ask yourself, why are korean teams willing to send non invited players using their own $$$ to the MLG (a well run tournament) to compete, but not so for NASL? Perhaps they think the way the finals are set up is stupid. A single best of 3, you lose, goodbye, pack up, go home?
Totally agree, clearly there is more to this issue if korean teams are still willing to (or have been) to pay for their players to go ot MLG wich only offers a 5k prize pool. Obviously im talking about the players that have attended outside of the GSL exchange program.
I dont get it though if NASL is saying they were basically offering all the travel expenses anyways, then why didnt they just offer them exactly that? Instead of something similair that the koreans wouldnt accept, seems like they could have saved alot of headaches for the same amount of money pretty much.
Honestly I always though NASL was a very sub par production anyways, so im actually glad the koreans withdrew now i dont have an excuse to watch it, and we shouldnt be supporting sub par production value's and countless mistakes that NASL has been plagued with anyways.
Productions like Dreamhack MLG and GSL , SHOULD be supported (i guess its a matter of oppinion but i dont think many would disagree that they have excellent production qualities) but when an event cant keep their shit together, why should we support it? So other shitty leagues can pop up thinking they can pull the same shit.
No thanks.
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On August 12 2011 16:57 Kornholi0 wrote:
Why should we care if koreans come or not? Most NA players and EU are equally as talented and almost 100% of the koreans give very lame *by the book games* while NA and EU give the very delicate fun to-watch games.
Most NA and EU players are not as good KR players. And whatever you said about "fun" is a completely subjective argument. Lots of people think Koreans play very fun-to-watch games.
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Wishful thinking at best Kornholio. It should read something like "a couple NA and EU players are almost as talented..."
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On August 12 2011 16:51 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:37 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:36 Defacer wrote:On August 12 2011 16:30 Volvograd12 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them  This reeks of arrogance. The dollar sign goes before the '50'. Yeah you're right, the Koreans are too greedy. 1/16 chance to win imaginary money? How long does it take to mail a check from America to Korea? 60 days right? Actually, If knew anything about accounting or managing the cash flow of a project 60 days is pretty normal, and only slightly longer than standard practice. Apparently, satire is invisible to those with low IQ's, I should had known better, forgive me. User was warned for this post
Actually, it's not satire, it's sarcasm.
You tried to use it to make a weak and condescending point that betrays your immaturity and lack of real life experience. I merely clarified to you what is obvious to everyone else -- you're failing miserably.
LOL @ the bolded. Read my quote, nitwit.
Argument aside, NASL seems really bitter.
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fuck em. maybe we'll actually have a North American Star League this time
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On another note, Surely DeMuslim gets in now? -_-
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On August 12 2011 16:24 sc2guy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:17 LuciferSC wrote:
Upon doing more reading, Koreans are definitely at fault for bailing out after participating in online portion of the tourney, knowing the condition of the accommodation NASL can provide.
No way for them to escape out of that one.
No they did not bail out. They tried to discuss with NASL but NASL chose to ignore the problems and go ahead with filming. I shall quote an extract from my original post. -------------------------------------------------------In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. >> Okay, via Mr Chae, they made their conditions for continuing their participation in NASL season 2. Note how I avoided the use of the word 'demands'. I do not see anything wrong with making those requests. In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league. We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation. >> In the earlier paragraph you say "In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae" bla bla bla... this was well ahead of Season 2 starting. Then NASL proceeded to continue filming when the issue was not settled (notified August 9th - our 2nd day of filming). I really wonder who's fault this is? We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season. >> Not final hour. You chose to ignore the existing issues and started filming. They notified NASL during the prepartion for Season 2. -------------------------------------------------------
People need to read this post. The contract was never finished and signed and issues were notified before S2 started. If that's the case, NASL has no leg to stand on really as it was a business decision. Pretty similar to the Puma case. If you can fault the Koreans, then you should definitely be faulting EG.
On August 12 2011 16:26 lacho_u wrote:I feel that NASL is making everthing possible, good price pools trael accomodations and so on, koreans seems too greedy for me, so they can stay at code B and play for 50 $ best of luck to them
They haven't even made reasonable playing times for the Koreans, what makes you say they are doing everything possible?
On August 12 2011 16:29 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:21 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:57 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 15:55 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote:
Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em. They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me. Because travel + prize money isn't cheaper. NASL doesn't have unlimited money Some people claimed it can go as low as 1.2k, which +500 is less than 2k. On the other hand, if NASL expects world's top SC2 players to spend ~3 months on event that could end up as a potential financial loss, due to the traveling costs, gl with that. The fact that Boxer made the same decision beforehand shows it's not just some Korean player organization at fault. In the end, all this is fine. Just the ambitions of NASL to be a global event are a bit reduced now. It would still be an interesting event to follow, regardless, of course. Similarly, there are some European events with quite high prizes that are not very global, but still quite fun. It's good to have variety. Oh give me a break. Its one best of three per week. Its not that fucking hard. And plane tickets are like $1200. Add in hotel and food and shuttle and your at around $1650 like NASL said earlier in this thread. NASL can't afford to cover all of that. They can afford to cover $1000 of that. Then they redistributed the prize pool so the bottom 8 each get $1000. This allows players to walk away, even if they lose right away, with about $350. There isn't a financial loss. This doesn't even factor in the exposure they gain by playing in NASL. Of course it is fine for Korean teams to not play in this, but one I think that should be a team decision, not sc2cons. Especially with some teams having deals with foreign teams (SK-oGs). And two they should have done this way long ago. Don't wait until the season has started.
SC2con is basically run by the team leaders (including higher members like the captains). Therefore, it basically was a team decision as a whole. Individual player decision, on the other hand...that's a different story.
On August 12 2011 16:29 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:21 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:57 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 15:55 figq wrote:On August 12 2011 15:28 SovereignT wrote:
Gonna repeat a previous opinion: $2500 minimum for each korean player is stupidly generous. Screw em. They didn't ask for $2500 (or higher prizes), they asked for covered travel expenses, square and straight. Why NASL refused to do exactly that (it should be cheaper) is beyond me. Because travel + prize money isn't cheaper. NASL doesn't have unlimited money Some people claimed it can go as low as 1.2k, which +500 is less than 2k. On the other hand, if NASL expects world's top SC2 players to spend ~3 months on event that could end up as a potential financial loss, due to the traveling costs, gl with that. The fact that Boxer made the same decision beforehand shows it's not just some Korean player organization at fault. In the end, all this is fine. Just the ambitions of NASL to be a global event are a bit reduced now. It would still be an interesting event to follow, regardless, of course. Similarly, there are some European events with quite high prizes that are not very global, but still quite fun. It's good to have variety. Oh give me a break. Its one best of three per week. Its not that fucking hard. And plane tickets are like $1200. Add in hotel and food and shuttle and your at around $1650 like NASL said earlier in this thread. NASL can't afford to cover all of that. They can afford to cover $1000 of that. Then they redistributed the prize pool so the bottom 8 each get $1000. This allows players to walk away, even if they lose right away, with about $350. There isn't a financial loss. This doesn't even factor in the exposure they gain by playing in NASL. Of course it is fine for Korean teams to not play in this, but one I think that should be a team decision, not sc2cons. Especially with some teams having deals with foreign teams (SK-oGs). And two they should have done this way long ago. Don't wait until the season has started.
On August 12 2011 16:31 Slider954 wrote:
@jmbthirteen I really think you and I are the only ones that seem to have a problem with, not their reasons for doing what they did, but with their TIMING of when they did it.
Judging from the posts, NASL went ahead with production before finalizing contracts. It's well within the Korean teams' rights to pull out given that the paper wasn't even signed yet and the negotiations failed. And jmbthirteen, you need to stop ignoring the fact that during those 3 months, the silly scheduling means that even just that 1 bo/3 can throw off their participation in other major events. Major events that have much better playing conditions. I don't think that's something to be ignored. In reference to jmbthirteen...they should have secured the contract long ago, not waited until the season started to do so.
On August 12 2011 16:39 Jepsyn wrote:
Very lame news... I dont see why people are faultin NASL for this at all.
think i might watch less GSL because of this now.. this isn't broodwar the same reverance to Korean players should not exist it seems that they are trying to take the SC2 scene hostage and thats BAD for it really bad...
Hope this gets worked out
I don't see why we're only faulting the Koreans either. From the looks of it
1.) They got fed up with sub par playing conditions and tournament management from NASL
2.) They wanted more for their players (perfectly reasonable from any team)
3.) The contract and negotiations were never completed.
Technically if point 3 is correct, then the Koreans actually didn't do anything wrong. True pulling out now is kinda d-baggish but, to be honest, so was the NASL's treatment of the Korean players throughout season 1. Not to mention...as someone already said, Code A is already a harder and more prestigious tournament than NASL.
On August 12 2011 16:43 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:40 Kush74 wrote:
greedy koreans? what makes you say that?
whos being greedy here
NASL which made huge amounts of money due to the koreans participating not willing to pay small amounts of money so that korean players can participate again.
or Koreans who spent their own money to get there only to be surprised by fucking terrible tournament management and expensive security deposit which hasnt even been paid back to the players, and now NASL is asking for more security deposit which is a fucking joke to start with... you are asking pro gamers to pay security deposits?? all the walkovers and stuff is due to the terrible tournament management not due to the PLAYERS. Koreans, who spent very little if anything of their own money to get there. Terrible tournament that EU/NA players all seemed to enjoy even if the production quality was rough. Security deposit is likely required judging from walk overs of the first season. And that seemed entirely issues upon the players and their handlers making mistakes. 1 game a week is such an onerous task!
EU/NA players didn't have to play at 5am through double the normal latency. Saying that the walkovers should be the fault of the players and that NASL shouldn't have to accommodate is like saying Jinro/Nani/Sase/Thorzain should have been booted from GSL and forfeited their code A spots because they couldn't make it to Korea in time from participating in other events. Yet, the Koreans went out of their way to delay their group by a day so they could make it back. Those Koreans...so unreasonable. And we already addressed the issue of 1 game a week...it's not about that 1 game. It's about the 1 game being played at completely unreasonable times and having the NASL schedule interfering with everything else for 3 months.
On August 12 2011 16:43 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:41 dignitasNewmaN wrote:
From the information available they have been very forthcoming and tried to make things work for everyone. Obviously they cant pay for the travel of Koreans specifically without doing the exact same thing for everyone else flying in to the grand finals. Competition needs to be fair no matter where you are from and one group of players cant expect to get special treatment. Then just pay for everyone's travel expenses then.
I doubt they can afford to do this...
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I am quite lost of the ignorance of some people here. So when Team Liquid decided to not participate in NASL because they have different vision how they want to do it it's OK and noone is to blame.
When the Korean teams say that they are not happy how the tournament is run and that they will not participate in S2 if <insert the demands if Korean teams here> is not exactly done everyone is jumping the gun and blame them for having demands.
Can someone point me the difference between TL and Korean teams situation? And please not "they have a signed deal" because there is no information about something signed in OP.
As this whole NASL tournament fiasco is going i can see it as real NA tournament in S3 if the EU teams stop being weak and start taking a stand so their players have fair playing conditions in NASL.
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On August 12 2011 16:59 youngminii wrote:
When will you organisations learn to keep your fucking opinions to yourself and respect other people's decisions?
I think in this case, NASL is obligated to release an official statement.
Not to mention, the reason why they released it is because Milkies Twittered it, which caused threads to pop out and Liquid said they would get a official answer from NASL, which then NASL gave.
I honestly cannot comprehend some people. If NASL did not make this announcement (which honestly is not worded in any incendiary way), people would rip them to shreds about how they need to be more transparent and how they're hiding it on purpose. Yet when they do release it, it's "WHY DID THEY SAY THIS?"
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Well there is enough players in the rest of the world to haev a nice league without Koreans. I'm sad there will be no Moon, July or NaDa in NASL Season 2 but the league is still there and will still deliver great games !
I'm sure the ten (or so) spots will be filled with great players ! I hope to see more European players
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On August 12 2011 16:57 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:53 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:48 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 16:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:36 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:
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Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website.
Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. People before you have already pointed out that the part of their expenses being paid is wrong. But no, you can't count that as "having lost 650". The 500 dollars of prize money is just that: prize money, something that was already going to be paid. The players just found that the NASL wasn't worth all the crap for just that amount. And nowhere did I say 350< 0. Learn reading comprehension before you post nonsense. You just don't get it do you. The NASL never offered to pay for all the players out of their own pockets, that's why they have teams, to send them to tournaments. What NASL did do was offer a substantial amount of money and increase their lower end prize pool to make sure nobody lost money on this, if the koreans didn't find it worth their time they shouldn't have played in qualifiers. And you said that it was the NASL who is trying to pay less than they did before which is a blatant lie, so maybe it is you who needs some reading comprehension. Apparently Koreans did raise objection to NASL, and both sides are at fault if anything for not reaching a mutual acceptance before the qualifiers ended. Except that the koreans still played in the qualifiers, not issuing this ultimatum of theirs until they were over. Well then NASL should've either stopped the players from further participating in the qualifiers at that point (if SC2Con raised their objection after the qualifers got started) or meet their demand earlier on? Both parties are at fault for this mess.
Ridiculous. Should novody ever sign a contract because somebody may break it?
The only thing NASL is at fault for is not being billionaires so they could pay everybodys way.
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On August 12 2011 17:02 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 16:59 youngminii wrote:
When will you organisations learn to keep your fucking opinions to yourself and respect other people's decisions?
I think in this case, NASL is obligated to release an official statement. Not to mention, the reason why they released it is because Milkies Twittered it, which caused threads to pop out and Liquid said they would get a official answer from NASL, which then NASL gave. I honestly cannot comprehend some people. If NASL did not make this announcement (which honestly is not worded in any incendiary way), people would rip them to shreds about how they need to be more transparent and how they're hiding it on purpose. Yet when they do release it, it's "WHY DID THEY SAY THIS?"
Good job misinterpreting.
Their statement is filled with bias and they're trying to shift all the blame to the Koreans.
A proper official statement has no bias. All it should state are the facts. None of this wishy washy blame game shenanigans.
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EPT
