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Brood Lords having the high ground bonus - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
August 09 2011 04:53 GMT
#81
On August 09 2011 13:50 Tektos wrote:
Carriers can shoot air, this is a fair trade in my opinion.


You do have to pay for interceptors... It should be patched one way or another because both the BL and carriers have similar mechanics, would be the logical thing for Blizzard to do.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
August 09 2011 04:57 GMT
#82
On August 09 2011 13:53 NET wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 13:50 Tektos wrote:
Carriers can shoot air, this is a fair trade in my opinion.


You do have to pay for interceptors... It should be patched one way or another because both the BL and carriers have similar mechanics, would be the logical thing for Blizzard to do.


If I could pay extra for my broodlords to shoot air units I clearly would.


Carriers are the stronger unit in all situations apart from this highly circumstantial situation. It is your opinion that this should be patched, it is my opinion that this is fine and does not need patching.
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
August 09 2011 05:00 GMT
#83
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
August 09 2011 05:03 GMT
#84
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
zJayy962
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1363 Posts
August 09 2011 05:05 GMT
#85
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord


False. Broodlings are upgraded by getting the melee ground upgrade. Broodlords on the other hand are upgraded by air upgrades.
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
August 09 2011 05:06 GMT
#86
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord

im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-09 05:10:57
August 09 2011 05:07 GMT
#87
On August 09 2011 14:05 zJayy962 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord


False. Broodlings are upgraded by getting the melee ground upgrade. Broodlords on the other hand are upgraded by air upgrades.


Half true, forgot about both ><

Edit: Take two:
On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord

im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?


The Air Attack increases the BL's initial damage of the actual projectile it shoots, and the Air Armor helps the BL have more armor itself, where as the Ground Attack and Carapace effect the broodlings themselves. Hopefully I got that right...
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
August 09 2011 05:10 GMT
#88
still not sure :S

so melee ground upgrades broodling damage. Air attack upgrade does what?
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-09 05:12:45
August 09 2011 05:10 GMT
#89
On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord

im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?


Broodlords shoot a broodling from the air. This is a missile attack that deals 20 damage. Because it is a broodlord attack, damage is increased via air upgrades.

The broodlord's broodling shots are then "transformed" into broodlings. These broodlings are like any other ground unit and are upgraded by ground upgrades.

From my understanding, this bug is because the broodlord's "broodling shot" is not from the broodlord itself, but the subordinate units that fly with the broodlord, causing the broodlord to not be revealed.


Think of it like this. Lets say a dwarf chucking unit existed.

Unit A chucks dwarf. Dwarf deals 20 damage on impact (air upgrades). Dwarf continues to attack with his axe (melee upgrades).
Unit A is the broodlord, the dwarf is the broodling.
Zirith
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada403 Posts
August 09 2011 05:13 GMT
#90
no one takes the time to set up terrain advantages anyway, this wont matter for 2-3 years :/
Artosis: "I don't trust hyenas."
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
August 09 2011 05:13 GMT
#91
On August 09 2011 14:10 Mysticesper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:
On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:
On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.

I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?


From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord

im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?


Broodlords shoot a broodling from the air. This is a missile attack that deals 20 damage. Because it is a broodlord attack, damage is increased via air upgrades.

The broodlord's broodling shots are then "transformed" into broodlings. These broodlings are like any other ground unit and are upgraded by ground upgrades.

From my understanding, this bug is because the broodlord's "broodling shot" is not from the broodlord itself, but the subordinate units that fly with the broodlord, causing the broodlord to not be revealed.


Think of it like this. Lets say a dwarf chucking unit existed.

Unit A chucks dwarf. Dwarf deals 20 damage on impact (air upgrades). Dwarf continues to attack with his axe (melee upgrades).
Unit A is the broodlord, the dwarf is the broodling.

Thank you very much for that. Understood.
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 09 2011 05:13 GMT
#92
isnt there a similar bug back in beta when you group the medivac is the MnM upper ground and attack with the MnM, the defender can see the medivac? It has something to do with control grouping hotkey.

nevertheless, great find! hope blizzard patch it
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
millardkillmore
Profile Joined June 2010
United States12 Posts
August 09 2011 05:16 GMT
#93
does this matter at all? i mean, you can't see the broodlord itself, but you know it's there (and you know it's position since you can see the broodlings). it's not like it is being protected from attack, since the muta in the first example isn't actually targetable by those stalkers. when something attacks from high ground you see where it is, but you cannot select or attack it unless you have vision. that would kind of defeat the whole purpose of high ground advantage. besides, anyone who has been cliffed on the old lost temple knows that just becasue you can see the tnak doesn't mean your spines can hit the tank.
Juddas
Profile Joined January 2011
768 Posts
August 09 2011 05:23 GMT
#94
^^ but it is target-able. the Muta. The broodlord on the other hand is not. Same thing with Colloxen. A high ground collossus that it shooting down and on the ledgeish can be targeted by low ground units, with or without vision of the high ground
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
August 09 2011 05:25 GMT
#95
On August 09 2011 14:16 millardkillmore wrote:
does this matter at all? i mean, you can't see the broodlord itself, but you know it's there (and you know it's position since you can see the broodlings). it's not like it is being protected from attack, since the muta in the first example isn't actually targetable by those stalkers. when something attacks from high ground you see where it is, but you cannot select or attack it unless you have vision. that would kind of defeat the whole purpose of high ground advantage. besides, anyone who has been cliffed on the old lost temple knows that just becasue you can see the tnak doesn't mean your spines can hit the tank.


You can see the broodlord but you can't target it without high ground vision. If any other air unit attacks from highground you can target it.

However, something makes me feel that it's supposed to be designed this way.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
August 09 2011 05:36 GMT
#96
On August 09 2011 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2011 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay.

In some situations, perhaps. However, I could imagine Brood Lords besieging an expansion from high ground while Turrets and Cannons are unable to fire back due to this high ground vision bug. I often see units abusing the high ground overlooking the low-ground expansions on Tal'Darim, and I can imagine a lone Brood Lord or two abusing that cliff while the main army is out of position.

It's a very interesting find, and I imagine a lot more players and casters may start experimenting with this bug before Blizzard inevitably patches it... eventually.


Well Broodlords can outrange turrets and cannons anyway.

Not a huge deal but if it is a big hopefully they fix it. Broodlords typically don't abuse high ground anyway because they're too fragile unless you have support, and they can outrange all the units anyway so it's not a huge deal.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 09 2011 05:53 GMT
#97
Broodling Escort (the 20 dmg air attack) is very different from the typical projectile attacks, and that's intended. It has about 20 effects, while Banshee's projectile has 3 effects. We can't exactly call this a bug, but it's fair to discuss whether the balance should work like that or not.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
justme!
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden3 Posts
August 09 2011 06:07 GMT
#98
On August 09 2011 10:15 figq wrote:
Interesting find, thanks. The reason, I suppose, could be that carrier's interceptors return to the carrier, and thus remain associated with it in some common class of objects, while broodlings once launched become fully autonomous units unrelated to the brood lord anymore, because they just die shortly. At least that's the only difference I can see.

/offtopic: zerg players really don't use broodlings well enough yet. It's surprisingly rare that someone would actually control them separately. As a result, very often you see broodlings not doing anything.

P.S. The proper comparison would be with Infested Terrans. Shooting them from high ground does not reveal the infestors, because the infested terrans are fully autonomous - unlike interceptors.

Another proof of this difference is:
- When you kill a carrier, all interceptors die immediately
- When you kill a brood lord, his launched broodlings don't die immediately
- When you kill an infestor, his launched infested terrans don't die immediately

So no, it's not a bug, clearly. You won't see interceptors living without a carrier, ever; they are associated. But you would see broodlings living without a brood lord; they are separate. Working as intended.


^ This.
Broodlords never attack on it's own.

Wouldn't surprice me if the same logic goes for raven/HSM
brlalwlrlrlrrr!
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
August 09 2011 06:12 GMT
#99
Pretty crazy that this affects colossus, a ground unit, but not a brood lord.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
Jragon
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1471 Posts
August 09 2011 06:18 GMT
#100
Good pick up
"Bisu is just too good." - Jaedong (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218995) "Bisu hyung's play is just too good" - Flash (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225861)
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