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If this topic belongs elsewhere then please move it to the appropriate board.
Hello TL! I noticed something rather interesting related to Brood Lords, tested it to be true and finally checked that there wasn't already an established topic or mention inside a thread about the issue before making this thread. Please be gentle as it's my first post. ;D
Firstly, a bit of preamble so everyone is on the same page. Starcraft 2's high ground system works thusly: if an army is positioned on the high ground, it can fire upon units positioned on the low ground with impunity, that is the units on the low ground cannot fire back at the units on the high ground. However, the player controlling the low ground army will be able to see the units attack from the high ground, slightly darkened and non-selectable.
This high ground bonus does not apply to air units positioned at a high ground location firing down on units on the low ground; the unit is revealed as soon as it attacks and can be selected/attacked by the player commanding the low ground army.
Of course, all high ground advantages are negated with the sight of an aerial unit or a map revealing mechanic such as scanner sweep, which kind of makes the mechanic a moot point beyond the early and mid-game, but that's another discussion altogether.
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Now, I would like to direct everyone to the following image:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v9rl8.jpg)
In the top left image, we see a demonstration of the high ground mechanic at work; the Mutalisk is revealed upon attacking the left-most Stalker, allowing our Protoss player to attack the Mutalisk on the high ground.
In the example of the Brood Lord, we should expect similar results as with the Mutalisk, as they both share the property of being aerial units. But it turns out that the Brood Lord is not revealed upon attacking, but only its Broodlings, which cannot be targeted as the Broodlings are invincible until they have executed the Broodling Strike attack. The left screenshot shows the vision of the Protoss player, while the right image shows the vision from an observer.
If we think about it, this result is only natural as the Brood Lord itself does not attack, and technically should not be revealed when its Broodlings attack. But before we can conclude that this is working as intended, we should compare with a unit that has a similar attack characteristic: the Carrier.
For those of us who don't know, the Carrier launches Interceptors to remotely attack its targets, much like how the Brood Lord launches Broodlings instead of directly attacking. However, if we look at the top right screenshot, the Carrier is revealed as its Interceptors attack and is heavily damaged by the Hydralisk on the low ground.
The first question to ask upon stumbling on something like this is whether or not this is working as intended. If it is working as intended then why does it not apply for the Carrier and vice versa.
The second, and perhaps more relevant to general gameplay, is if this is of any use in a real match? Sadly, most late-game armies have some sort of air unit support, most commonly Medivacs/Vikings and Observers/Colossi. The only real implication this could have is against a Protoss player going blink Stalkers into Templar and they have yet to put down the Robo when you have the Brood Lords out or even more rarely heavy Terran mech play.
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High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay.
edit: good find.
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Don't really see it making a difference (unless protoss misplaced his observer or something). Nice find nonetheless!
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On August 09 2011 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay.
In some situations, perhaps. However, I could imagine Brood Lords besieging an expansion from high ground while Turrets and Cannons are unable to fire back due to this high ground vision bug. I often see units abusing the high ground overlooking the low-ground expansions on Tal'Darim, and I can imagine a lone Brood Lord or two abusing that cliff while the main army is out of position.
It's a very interesting find, and I imagine a lot more players and casters may start experimenting with this bug before Blizzard inevitably patches it... eventually.
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On August 09 2011 09:42 Clairvaux wrote:
If we think about it, this result is only natural as the Brood Lord itself does not attack, and technically should not be revealed when its Broodlings attack.
The broodlord has a 20 base dmg attack http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Broodlord
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Great find, and great first post!
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im going to assume its because broodlord has longer range then the stalkers(carrier has the same range as broodlord but is closer to the edge).
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This definitely does have an impact on gameplay. Broodlord strategies are a lot stronger when couple with an overseer to snipe the observer.
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Nice find, although it may not affect that many games it does seem like a bug that should be fixed. Perhaps post this in the Blizzard forums letting them know about this bug.
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On August 09 2011 09:49 Falcor wrote:
im going to assume its because broodlord has longer range then the stalkers(carrier has the same range as broodlord but is closer to the edge).
But the Broodlord is clearly just as close to the cliff in that example. It's definitely within the range of the Stalkers. And that's not even relevant, as even if it's out of Stalker range, it should still at least be revealed to the Protoss player even if he can't shoot at it, as the OP explained.
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Broodling is a ground unit, unlike the Interceptor which is a Air unit. So your comparison may or may not be accurate.
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On August 09 2011 09:53 GentleDrill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 09:49 Falcor wrote:
im going to assume its because broodlord has longer range then the stalkers(carrier has the same range as broodlord but is closer to the edge). But the Broodlord is clearly just as close to the cliff in that example. It's definitely within the range of the Stalkers. And that's not even relevant, as even if it's out of Stalker range, it should still at least be revealed to the Protoss player even if he can't shoot at it, as the OP explained.
my bad for some reason i thought that the broodlings when fired were ahead of the broodlord.
edit: i will say by the pictures you can see tho you can see the broodlings(so im going to assume that the 20 base dmg is actually the broodling doing the dmg and not the actual broodlord) But it should be fixed
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Wait a minute.
If I had a flying unit on high ground, and they had no vision up the high ground, they can hit back if I attack? I swear I've managed to harass with Mutas on high ground and people couldnt attack back without vision.
About the BL thing, I'm thinking this is probably a glitch though. The BL is still technically shooting stuff down at the units on the low ground, it should be shown. I think the Carrier actually has the better argument for being left unseen, but considering how it is visible, the BL should be too.
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This isn't really something that can be negligently discarded. One BL can basically shut down an entire expansion as other races rely a lot on static defense later on in the game (for their 4th and even 3rd).
Even if it dies eventually to an air unit, it would still be a decent trade.
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actually, even though this is not something really big, i think it needs changeing (unless it is intended). I can even recall one game where this annoyed me alot and did change the course of the game.
it was on tal'darim altar and i got to mass gateway army with blink and the Z managed to get out broodlords together with his roaches. my macro was better and when i attacked, he just positioned his broodlords at the "high-ground-island-of-trees" that is between your natrual and the third exp with rocks and i couldn't attack either his natrual nor third as he had his roaches to block and i would have taken too much dmg if i tried. so i couldn't break him because of this, not sniping his broods, and it was actually a real problem.
what happend though was that i took 3 more exps and made a ton of gateways so i won either way but i should have been able to win erlier.
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While I think this should be fixed, I don't really see this as a very big deal, especially shutting down expansion with this. I mean the BL outranges the static defenses anyway.
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Huh, kinda strange, never really noticed to be honest.
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Very interesting find. I think this will likely get patched.
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This is actually pretty big considering the times when you want to be sniping broodlords with ghosts.
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could it be that Blizzard purposely design like this? I favor the difference that carrier interceptor and broodlings are air and ground,respectively.But this is an interesting find indeed.But hardly useful in a real fight maybe.
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OH wow so i was right ha! cool thanks for this man ive been stuck in my base before with broods and used them to clear sieges and such off my front door i thought it was just a random bug that happened one off because i was wondering why the dude wasn't shooting back i didn't know he actually couldn't.
The carrier thing im thinking the same as AL a few posts up : Broodling is a ground unit, unlike the Interceptor which is a Air unit. So your comparison may or may not be accurate.
It might help explain it.
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Forces toss to get vision of high ground, either extra obs or pylons, or something.
I see HuK put cannons on the high ground behind his 3rd on Xel Naga PvZ for this reason.
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Good find, everything helps
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On August 09 2011 10:10 Chronald wrote:
Forces toss to get vision of high ground, either extra obs or pylons, or something.
I see HuK put cannons on the high ground behind his 3rd on Xel Naga PvZ for this reason.
Waiiit, you think HuK puts pylons behind his nat at the 3rd to spot for lategame broodlords?
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Very interesting, I see the discrepancy in how the carrier and BL should share the same high ground mechanic rules due to the way they both attack, but don't. Good find.
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Interesting find, thanks. The reason, I suppose, could be that carrier's interceptors return to the carrier, and thus remain associated with it in some common class of objects, while broodlings once launched become fully autonomous units unrelated to the brood lord anymore, because they just die shortly. At least that's the only difference I can see.
/offtopic: zerg players really don't use broodlings well enough yet. It's surprisingly rare that someone would actually control them separately. As a result, very often you see broodlings not doing anything.
P.S. The proper comparison would be with Infested Terrans. Shooting them from high ground does not reveal the infestors, because the infested terrans are fully autonomous - unlike interceptors.
Another proof of this difference is:
- When you kill a carrier, all interceptors die immediately
- When you kill a brood lord, his launched broodlings don't die immediately
- When you kill an infestor, his launched infested terrans don't die immediately
So no, it's not a bug, clearly. You won't see interceptors living without a carrier, ever; they are associated. But you would see broodlings living without a brood lord; they are separate. Working as intended.
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Isn't this just because of all the long range of the BLs? Mutalisks are revealed because they are close range, and I believe Carrier range is still less than BL's.
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interesting find.
I think I noticed it partially when I play on Taldarim...where the 3rd expo is..that big mountain/cliff thing. mutas attacking will be shot back by marines, BL wont.
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On August 09 2011 10:20 denzelz wrote:
Isn't this just because of all the long range of the BLs? Mutalisks are revealed because they are close range, and I believe Carrier range is still less than BL's.
It's true that BL have a longer range than Carriers (9.5 vs. 8), but it's also worth pointing out that Carriers can retreat while the Interceptors are attacking (according to Liquipedia, they have to be within 8 range to attack, and can then retreat up to 14 range).
This is still a really interesting find....may see more harassment of naturals and thirds with BL's more viable, but really only if the opponent doesn't have any air units/observers. Great post though!
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United States12235 Posts
Nice bug report. You should mirror this on the Bnet Bug Report forum if you haven't already. Be sure to attach a replay of some sort to help illustrate the point.
Sure sounds like concrete evidence of an inconsistency and something that has a high chance of getting fixed.
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instead of facing the carrier backwards, try facing it in front?
it could be a minor glitch with the model of the units or perhaps glitch with the high ground instead
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Good find, I hope this get patched. All I know is my blink stalkers are faster than my observers and I wanna be able to take advantage of every second I can to fire at broodlords parked over a cliff or space.
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Weird, should get fixed, could potentially help alot
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Good find. This does seem like a bug, though. Hopefully it will get patched.
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On August 09 2011 10:40 Azurues wrote:
instead of facing the carrier backwards, try facing it in front?
it could be a minor glitch with the model of the units or perhaps glitch with the high ground instead
It's because the carrier has a weapon and it's "pets" are controlled by that weapon, while the Broodlord has a dummy weapon that isn't actually anything to do with it's real attack, with it's real attack being tied to the 2 untargettable escort "pet" units that fly with it.
Easily solvable by Blizzard. They could just attach a 0 damage dummy effect to it's weapon which would reveal it to attackers like normal units. I'm sure if you posted it in the US bug report forum, they'd catch wind of it.
TL:DR; Broodlords don't have real weapons, hence aren't revealed. Probably oversight.
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It's because the carrier has a weapon and it's "pets" are controlled by that weapon, while the Broodlord has a dummy weapon that isn't actually anything to do with it's real attack, with it's real attack being tied to the 2 untargettable escort "pet" units that fly with it.
Sounds strained - I don't buy it.
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Yeah this mechanic isn't interesting enough to be anything other than a bug.
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On August 09 2011 11:19 Sunrunner wrote:Show nested quote +It's because the carrier has a weapon and it's "pets" are controlled by that weapon, while the Broodlord has a dummy weapon that isn't actually anything to do with it's real attack, with it's real attack being tied to the 2 untargettable escort "pet" units that fly with it.
Sounds strained - I don't buy it.
Open up the editor. Open the data editor (F7). Go to the units tab. Type in "Brood Lord".
Go to "Combat - Weapons +"
Note the weapon name. "Brood Lord - Broodling Strike".
Go to the weapon tab. Type the above in. Note the entry.
"Effect - Effect" is what a weapon actually does when you tell a unit to attack. Note the (None).
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This is an excellent find. I already occasionally run one corruptor to an hidden annoying place to morph and then harass my opponent's expos, now I will use the high ground advantage to be even more annoying.
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I've actually been in a situation where I had the high ground advantage with Brood Lords and was wondering why Terran had to scan to snipe my brood lords.
More generally, I've always wondered why Blizzard made it so you can't attack an air unit on the high ground until it attacks you. It seems like it should either never be attackable without vision on the high ground, or you should be able to see it and attack it before it attacks you. I just don't understand Blizzard's logic.
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good find, they should fix it imo:3
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Shouldn't be changed, a good advantage of BL's
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Working as intended.
BL and carriers differ significantly in many ways not really considered by the OP.
Carrier interceptors are air units. Broodlings are ground units.
Interceptors cannot be manually controlled. Broodlings can be manually controlled.
Interceptors die when the carrier dies. Broodlings do not.
Clearly, interceptors rely on the carrier, broodlings do not rely on the broodlord. For units that create other units, (think of infestors and infested terrans) the infestor on the high ground making infested terrans on the low ground is not made visible.
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
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Please nerf this is so gay it works against me when i go mass stalker to archon zealot i get fuked because i cant hit the broods ever it sucks
User was temp banned for this post.
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I actually think all the other air units being targetable over cliffs is a bug. The rule is very clearly supposed to be if you don't have vision of it, you can't shoot it, period.
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On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Working as intended.
BL and carriers differ significantly in many ways not really considered by the OP.
Carrier interceptors are air units. Broodlings are ground units.
Interceptors cannot be manually controlled. Broodlings can be manually controlled.
Interceptors die when the carrier dies. Broodlings do not.
Clearly, interceptors rely on the carrier, broodlings do not rely on the broodlord. For units that create other units, (think of infestors and infested terrans) the infestor on the high ground making infested terrans on the low ground is not made visible.
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
Yes they do. A brooding striking a target is no different than a missile from a banshee striking a target. A broodling in the air and a banshee missiles are both uncontrollable projectiles that do damage when they strike their target. It's inconsistent for a banshee to be revealed and a broodlord not.
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On August 09 2011 09:59 rexob wrote:
actually, even though this is not something really big, i think it needs changeing (unless it is intended). I can even recall one game where this annoyed me alot and did change the course of the game.
it was on tal'darim altar and i got to mass gateway army with blink and the Z managed to get out broodlords together with his roaches. my macro was better and when i attacked, he just positioned his broodlords at the "high-ground-island-of-trees" that is between your natrual and the third exp with rocks and i couldn't attack either his natrual nor third as he had his roaches to block and i would have taken too much dmg if i tried. so i couldn't break him because of this, not sniping his broods, and it was actually a real problem.
what happend though was that i took 3 more exps and made a ton of gateways so i won either way but i should have been able to win erlier.
Perhaps there is an opportunity for abuse here if the protoss is going templar tech, rush some corruptors over to that island where zergs usually hide and overlord and then morph them. He won't be able to stop you shelling his base until he gets a robo or a stargate.
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Please report it in the official battle.net foruns, bug report section.
This bug would be never found, as it is so rare to have BL and not have the enemy with some sort of air vision (colossus/observer); so, good job XD
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
This is definitely a bug, Broodlords just have a delayed attack. If a Raven fires a seeker missile from a high ground position, it will become visible when the missile impacts.
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Hm, I guess this does make a difference if you have a cliff you can fight with/defend, much like the stalker pictures you've shown. (Though how often do you wanna engage an army that has the high ground advantage?)
Good find
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not sure if this has been said already, but cant this just be a function of the range. the broodlord has a range of 9.5; carrier has a range of 8 (to send out interceptors). closer you are to the cliff, the more likely you should be seen.
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Virtually completely useless (not problematic) because it's a late game unit, but still interesting information.
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On August 09 2011 11:48 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Working as intended.
BL and carriers differ significantly in many ways not really considered by the OP.
Carrier interceptors are air units. Broodlings are ground units.
Interceptors cannot be manually controlled. Broodlings can be manually controlled.
Interceptors die when the carrier dies. Broodlings do not.
Clearly, interceptors rely on the carrier, broodlings do not rely on the broodlord. For units that create other units, (think of infestors and infested terrans) the infestor on the high ground making infested terrans on the low ground is not made visible.
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
Yes they do. A brooding striking a target is no different than a missile from a banshee striking a target. A broodling in the air and a banshee missiles are both uncontrollable projectiles that do damage when they strike their target. It's inconsistent for a banshee to be revealed and a broodlord not.
This... How did you come to the conclusion that a broodling which is an ACTUAL unit is similar to a banshee missile? Do you even play this game? Or am I so high that I'm missing something?
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On August 09 2011 12:03 Xapti wrote:
Virtually completely useless (not problematic) because it's a late game unit, but still interesting information.
If it was a Battlecruiser doing this instead people would be flipping out and this thread would be like 15 pages of people freaking out and demanding it be fixed immediately. It's definitely a serious issue and should be fixed.
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Wow, there are so many people in this thread, including the OP that are ignorant to the fact that broodlords DO damage their target directly (20 dmg a shot unupgraded) and then the broodlings hit the ground and start doing their thing
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I've had this happen several times to me... and a good majority of the games that had this happening to me completely changed the course of major battles. 
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Lol at people just blowing this off
Till it gets patched, this mechanic fundamentally changes the strategy of any Broodlord-centric army. There just aren't that many method of maximizing advantage as prevalent as this
Anyone claiming otherwise is just plain wrong
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great OP, and this is very weird...
nice comparison with the Carrier, i haven't realized this so maybe blizzard hasn't either
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Looks like a bug imo. The broodlords attack should reveal it just like any other air unit. I don't see people's argument saying it shouldn't because the broodlings are what attack, because both the broodlings and broodlord are attacking.
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On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
More people need to learn that broodlords *actually* attack. They have 20 base damage.
Why don't some zergs know their race? -_-
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On August 09 2011 12:40 Intricate1 wrote:
Till it gets patched, this mechanic fundamentally changes the strategy of any Broodlord-centric army.
No, it doesn't. You always want to put your brood lords up on a ledge where it's harder for ground units to hit them, anyways.
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On August 09 2011 12:40 Intricate1 wrote:
Lol at people just blowing this off
Till it gets patched, this mechanic fundamentally changes the strategy of any Broodlord-centric army. There just aren't that many method of maximizing advantage as prevalent as this
Anyone claiming otherwise is just plain wrong
Well the only problem is in most situations it will be hard to use this advantage. Broodlords stomp terran without vikings anyway, and with vikings they will have vision, also scan completely negates it so its of limited use ZvT. In ZvP it would only be useful if protoss doesn't have an observer or a stargate or hallucination, which at the late stage of the game at which broodlords come out is somewhat unlikely. Still there may be a few opportunities. And I've never seen broodlords in ZvZ. This would be a lot more gamebreaking if broodlords were easy to rush to, but since they aren't I don't see it changing much at all.
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interesting find, i doubt it gonna has any kind of gameplay effect but they still need to fix it
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Interesting find. It also hit me that air units don't have that high ground bonus. Never noticed until now and now I know why my mutas can get attacked when fighting near a cliff.
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Cool find. This can be abused on Shattered temple where Zergs park overlords for scouting. Making a Protoss bring an observer or other air unit to clean this up could definitely change games.
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On August 09 2011 12:43 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
More people need to learn that broodlords *actually* attack. They have 20 base damage. Why don't some zergs know their race? -_-
You really think actual zerg players are saying that or just forum dwellers that watch SC2 and play in silver.
...
I'm thinking my hypothesis is correct.
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On August 09 2011 12:33 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Wow, there are so many people in this thread, including the OP that are ignorant to the fact that broodlords DO damage their target directly (20 dmg a shot unupgraded) and then the broodlings hit the ground and start doing their thing
![[image loading]](http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2720/17632026.th.jpg)
Doesn't have a weapon. Real weapon is tied to flying broodlings, which don't get revealed because they aren't real units. This is different to how carrier works.
Oversight.
Can explain in further detail via PM if needed.
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Broodlords fly higher than carriers
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I kind of noticed this happening before, but I was too focused on playing <losing> to give it much thought. It is kind of serious, though, especially when you have to fend off broodlords with marines because they become un-attackable even if they're slightly over a cliff. It's pretty annoying.
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Nice first post man. Hope Blizz patch this soon.
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Protoss rarely have a observer with'em at this stage of the game o.o
i dont see a real use, for it. except for lategame harrass against Protoss, on Bases with a highground beneath it.
Like the old Lost Temple or one of the new maps Searing Crater, where u could harass protoss with broodlords at the 3rd.
But in a normal engagement i dont think it could be really useful, because a Protoss often got 1 or more observer with them.
The only thing which already is good, is just the Cliff outranging. But this was known already before.
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On August 09 2011 12:43 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
More people need to learn that broodlords *actually* attack. They have 20 base damage. Why don't some zergs know their race? -_-
actually how its set up...the broodlings do the 20 base damg...hence why u see the broodlings in the fog of war and not the broodlord.
why dont some zergs know their race? -_-
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On August 09 2011 13:20 Falcor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 12:43 darkness wrote:On August 09 2011 11:37 dogabutila wrote:
Then lastly, remember that broodlords don't actually attack.
More people need to learn that broodlords *actually* attack. They have 20 base damage. Why don't some zergs know their race? -_- actually how its set up...the broodlings do the 20 base damg...hence why u see the broodlings in the fog of war and not the broodlord. why dont some zergs know their race? -_-
I'm pretty sure Darkness is a Protoss player.
Also;
"Drones are fundamentally weaker than Probes or SCV's, their attack delay due to animation is twice as long as other workers, meaning other workers can infinitely kite them."
BALANCED BRO, LRN2PULL 2 DRONES NEXT TIME
"At a point in the game where you should have an observer or some kind of air unit, you cannot see a unit on the high ground, in a manner completely fitting the mechanics of high-ground"
FUCKING BROKEN AND HERE'S SOME FACTS THAT ARE WRONG THAT PROVE IT'S A GLITCH LRN2PLAY YOUR OWN RACE NUB
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Great first post; thanks for contributing to the forums and starting off on the right foot!
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On August 09 2011 13:04 Eiviyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 12:33 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Wow, there are so many people in this thread, including the OP that are ignorant to the fact that broodlords DO damage their target directly (20 dmg a shot unupgraded) and then the broodlings hit the ground and start doing their thing Doesn't have a weapon. Real weapon is tied to flying broodlings, which don't get revealed because they aren't real units. This is different to how carrier works. Oversight. Can explain in further detail via PM if needed.
Well with that logic Carriers should also be hidden in the fog of war and the interceptors should get shown, but the pictures show that the Carrier also is shown so it can be focused. So, in my opinion, the Brood Lord should be shown as well, even if it doesn't actually attack, but send other units to attack for it.
And anyone saying the opponent should have vikings or an obs by that point in the game is using a flawed argument. The point is that if you attack from the high ground, you should be seen, even if its dark and you're unable to be attacked. The Brood Lord is the only unit that doesn't follow that rule, so it should be fixed, unless it was intentional, which I doubt.
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Great find! Send it to Blizzard so they can fix it! Maybe hiding the Carriers would be a better idea than revealing the Broodlords. Don't see enough carriers as it is.
Edit: Welcome to the community Clairvaux!
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Carriers can shoot air, this is a fair trade in my opinion.
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On August 09 2011 13:50 Tektos wrote:
Carriers can shoot air, this is a fair trade in my opinion.
You do have to pay for interceptors... It should be patched one way or another because both the BL and carriers have similar mechanics, would be the logical thing for Blizzard to do.
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On August 09 2011 13:53 NET wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 13:50 Tektos wrote:
Carriers can shoot air, this is a fair trade in my opinion. You do have to pay for interceptors... It should be patched one way or another because both the BL and carriers have similar mechanics, would be the logical thing for Blizzard to do.
If I could pay extra for my broodlords to shoot air units I clearly would.
Carriers are the stronger unit in all situations apart from this highly circumstantial situation. It is your opinion that this should be patched, it is my opinion that this is fine and does not need patching.
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I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?
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On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units?
From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord
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On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord
False. Broodlings are upgraded by getting the melee ground upgrade. Broodlords on the other hand are upgraded by air upgrades.
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On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord
im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?
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On August 09 2011 14:05 zJayy962 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord False. Broodlings are upgraded by getting the melee ground upgrade. Broodlords on the other hand are upgraded by air upgrades.
Half true, forgot about both ><
Edit: Take two:
On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?
The Air Attack increases the BL's initial damage of the actual projectile it shoots, and the Air Armor helps the BL have more armor itself, where as the Ground Attack and Carapace effect the broodlings themselves. Hopefully I got that right...
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still not sure :S
so melee ground upgrades broodling damage. Air attack upgrade does what?
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On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords?
Broodlords shoot a broodling from the air. This is a missile attack that deals 20 damage. Because it is a broodlord attack, damage is increased via air upgrades.
The broodlord's broodling shots are then "transformed" into broodlings. These broodlings are like any other ground unit and are upgraded by ground upgrades.
From my understanding, this bug is because the broodlord's "broodling shot" is not from the broodlord itself, but the subordinate units that fly with the broodlord, causing the broodlord to not be revealed.
Think of it like this. Lets say a dwarf chucking unit existed.
Unit A chucks dwarf. Dwarf deals 20 damage on impact (air upgrades). Dwarf continues to attack with his axe (melee upgrades).
Unit A is the broodlord, the dwarf is the broodling.
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no one takes the time to set up terrain advantages anyway, this wont matter for 2-3 years :/
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On August 09 2011 14:10 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 14:06 theBALLS wrote:On August 09 2011 14:03 NET wrote:On August 09 2011 14:00 theBALLS wrote:
I hope you guys can help answer my very silly question.
I'm not a Z player, but is the upgrade for broodlord damage from ground melee units or air units? From melee ground upgrades. Brood Lord im a little confused by that article. so what do air upgrades do for broodlords? Broodlords shoot a broodling from the air. This is a missile attack that deals 20 damage. Because it is a broodlord attack, damage is increased via air upgrades. The broodlord's broodling shots are then "transformed" into broodlings. These broodlings are like any other ground unit and are upgraded by ground upgrades. From my understanding, this bug is because the broodlord's "broodling shot" is not from the broodlord itself, but the subordinate units that fly with the broodlord, causing the broodlord to not be revealed. Think of it like this. Lets say a dwarf chucking unit existed. Unit A chucks dwarf. Dwarf deals 20 damage on impact (air upgrades). Dwarf continues to attack with his axe (melee upgrades). Unit A is the broodlord, the dwarf is the broodling.
Thank you very much for that. Understood.
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isnt there a similar bug back in beta when you group the medivac is the MnM upper ground and attack with the MnM, the defender can see the medivac? It has something to do with control grouping hotkey.
nevertheless, great find! hope blizzard patch it 
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does this matter at all? i mean, you can't see the broodlord itself, but you know it's there (and you know it's position since you can see the broodlings). it's not like it is being protected from attack, since the muta in the first example isn't actually targetable by those stalkers. when something attacks from high ground you see where it is, but you cannot select or attack it unless you have vision. that would kind of defeat the whole purpose of high ground advantage. besides, anyone who has been cliffed on the old lost temple knows that just becasue you can see the tnak doesn't mean your spines can hit the tank.
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^^ but it is target-able. the Muta. The broodlord on the other hand is not. Same thing with Colloxen. A high ground collossus that it shooting down and on the ledgeish can be targeted by low ground units, with or without vision of the high ground
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On August 09 2011 14:16 millardkillmore wrote:
does this matter at all? i mean, you can't see the broodlord itself, but you know it's there (and you know it's position since you can see the broodlings). it's not like it is being protected from attack, since the muta in the first example isn't actually targetable by those stalkers. when something attacks from high ground you see where it is, but you cannot select or attack it unless you have vision. that would kind of defeat the whole purpose of high ground advantage. besides, anyone who has been cliffed on the old lost temple knows that just becasue you can see the tnak doesn't mean your spines can hit the tank.
You can see the broodlord but you can't target it without high ground vision. If any other air unit attacks from highground you can target it.
However, something makes me feel that it's supposed to be designed this way.
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On August 09 2011 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay. In some situations, perhaps. However, I could imagine Brood Lords besieging an expansion from high ground while Turrets and Cannons are unable to fire back due to this high ground vision bug. I often see units abusing the high ground overlooking the low-ground expansions on Tal'Darim, and I can imagine a lone Brood Lord or two abusing that cliff while the main army is out of position. It's a very interesting find, and I imagine a lot more players and casters may start experimenting with this bug before Blizzard inevitably patches it... eventually.
Well Broodlords can outrange turrets and cannons anyway.
Not a huge deal but if it is a big hopefully they fix it. Broodlords typically don't abuse high ground anyway because they're too fragile unless you have support, and they can outrange all the units anyway so it's not a huge deal.
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Broodling Escort (the 20 dmg air attack) is very different from the typical projectile attacks, and that's intended. It has about 20 effects, while Banshee's projectile has 3 effects. We can't exactly call this a bug, but it's fair to discuss whether the balance should work like that or not.
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On August 09 2011 10:15 figq wrote:
Interesting find, thanks. The reason, I suppose, could be that carrier's interceptors return to the carrier, and thus remain associated with it in some common class of objects, while broodlings once launched become fully autonomous units unrelated to the brood lord anymore, because they just die shortly. At least that's the only difference I can see.
/offtopic: zerg players really don't use broodlings well enough yet. It's surprisingly rare that someone would actually control them separately. As a result, very often you see broodlings not doing anything.
P.S. The proper comparison would be with Infested Terrans. Shooting them from high ground does not reveal the infestors, because the infested terrans are fully autonomous - unlike interceptors.
Another proof of this difference is:
- When you kill a carrier, all interceptors die immediately
- When you kill a brood lord, his launched broodlings don't die immediately
- When you kill an infestor, his launched infested terrans don't die immediately
So no, it's not a bug, clearly. You won't see interceptors living without a carrier, ever; they are associated. But you would see broodlings living without a brood lord; they are separate. Working as intended.
^ This.
Broodlords never attack on it's own.
Wouldn't surprice me if the same logic goes for raven/HSM
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Pretty crazy that this affects colossus, a ground unit, but not a brood lord.
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lol I can't even believe this is being discussed xD
you people do realize that broodlings are initially considered a missile attack right?
that's like saying vikings or hydralisk should be revealed when they fire
the carrier on the other hand shouldn't be revealed if its out of range of the attacking target only the interceptors
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No wonder the last time I tried carriers vs hydras and got shut down even when I was defending from my base on Xel'Naga
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I actually had a ZvZ with this happening. He had corrupters that wouldn't allow my overlords to get near the high ground (on taldarim altar near the third) so my hydras couldn't attack the 3 broods sieging my third base
Luckily it was one of those silly games so I destroyed all his buildings.
I can't see this honestly being a big deal though unless you get some weird funky late game protoss situation where they lost their observer to a fungal and can't get vision of the high ground to blink up.
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So this looks like it might be a legitimate bug. I do have a question though. In the Carrier screenshot, which player does that creep belong to, and are you certain it did not allow enough vision to see and select the Carrier for the Hydralisks on the low ground? It looks like the answer to that might be no, but I can't be certain. Retest.
If that creep isn't granting any vision of the Carrier for the Zerg player, then this is definitely an inconsistency that should be fixed. Either the Carrier shouldn't be able to be fired on, or the Broodlord should be. Nice find.
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Wow, this game is over 1 year old and still has so many things not even discovered.
Nice find
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I don't see how this could be game changing. Even if blizzard make it so that it shows the broodlord when the broodlord attack, you still would not be able to attack the broodlord unless you actually have vision. Doesn't change a thing.
Plus, about the broodlord attack. As far as I understand it, here is how it works. The broolord throws a broodling and make 20 damage, then the broodling attack and deal something like 4 damage (am i correct on that ?). That means, when the broodlord has 2 broodlings behind him, when he attacks, he launches 2 broodlings and deals an immediate 40 damage and brings 2 broodlings on the field, then has to wait for a broodling to respawn behind him before attacking again.
So it just may be that the 20 initial damage are tied to the broodling (which makes sense, since the broodlord can't attack unless he has at least one broodling ready behind him). And thus would explain why we don't see the broodlord on the high ground.
How does it differ from a weapon of, let's say, a vicking ? Well, there are differences in the fact that the wiking always deal the same amount of damage every y.xx seconds (help me on that one), while the broodlord's attack depends on the amount of broodling he has ready to be thrown.
But maybe blizzard will decide that they don't like that anymore, and will show the broodlord. It won't change a thing though, since you need actual vision the attack it, like for every other unit attacking from the high ground.
EDIT : After looking at the picture in the first post, I have to wonder why the carrier lost some HP. I mean you can't attack tanks or canons from the low ground if you don't have vision of them. That would be a bug if you could attack the carrier without vision. Nothing to do with the broodlord. The carrier thing is the bug here, as far as i'm concerned.
EDIT 2 : OK I misunderstood a few things originally. I thought the issue was that the broodlord was not revealed, i did not read that the carrier could be attacked. My mistake. Well, I don't think the issue here lies with the broodlord. The carrier should not be attacked.
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After looking at the picture in the first post, I have to wonder why the carrier lost some HP. I mean you can't attack tanks or canons from the low ground if you don't have vision of them. That would be a bug if you could attack the carrier without vision. Nothing to do with the broodlord. The carrier thing is the bug here, as far as i'm concerned. thats the thing air units always count as being spotted D:
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On August 09 2011 16:02 BobTheLob wrote:Show nested quote +After looking at the picture in the first post, I have to wonder why the carrier lost some HP. I mean you can't attack tanks or canons from the low ground if you don't have vision of them. That would be a bug if you could attack the carrier without vision. Nothing to do with the broodlord. The carrier thing is the bug here, as far as i'm concerned. thats the thing air units always count as being spotted D:
I see now. But was the mustalisk attacked from the stalker (on the image) ? Or was it just shown without being targetable ?
EDIT :nvm, apparently yes. sorry.
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Good find, that is interesting...
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We have learned that as a result of this find, carriers need a buff. Hope to see it next patch blizzard.
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Maybe because interceptor are air units and broodlinds are gound units?
Anyways, I'd rather have the carrier buffed than the broodlord nerfed.
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There's always something Blizzard needs to fix, but they are working on it, trust me
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blizzard just wanted to make broodlords even more imbalanced lol
srsly dont think that this has much of an impact to the gameplay since broodlords are unbeatable (without vikings) anyways
good find
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On August 09 2011 12:43 darkscream wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 12:40 Intricate1 wrote:
Lol at people just blowing this off
Till it gets patched, this mechanic fundamentally changes the strategy of any Broodlord-centric army. There just aren't that many method of maximizing advantage as prevalent as this
Anyone claiming otherwise is just plain wrong
No, it doesn't. You always want to put your brood lords up on a ledge where it's harder for ground units to hit them, anyways.
To highlight the concept
Take for example engagements in the center of Xel'Naga Caverns, The high ground advantage in the OP fundamentally changes the descion making process of how to engage with a broodlord-centric army in relation to the highlighted terrain.
Not considering the OP in the everyday use of your broodlords is just wasting advantage
![[image loading]](http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb437/WhatIsAxis/400px-XelNaga_Caverns-1.jpg)
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You wouldnt want the broodlords up there anyways. Towers, plus they can only control one path from the ledges.
It might be a factor in the future, on other maps. but that example is not one.
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To highlight the concept once again,
On August 09 2011 17:24 dogabutila wrote:
You wouldnt want the broodlords up there anyways. Towers, plus they can only control one path from the ledges.
It might be a factor in the future, on other maps. but that example is not one.
So what your saying is there no situation in Starcraft where you maximize your advantage by positioning a broodlord on the highlighted high ground and using the mechanic in the OP?
Obviously not so plz refer to the previous post,
"Not considering the OP in the everyday use of your broodlords is just wasting advantage."
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On August 09 2011 10:15 figq wrote:
Interesting find, thanks. The reason, I suppose, could be that carrier's interceptors return to the carrier, and thus remain associated with it in some common class of objects, while broodlings once launched become fully autonomous units unrelated to the brood lord anymore, because they just die shortly. At least that's the only difference I can see.
/offtopic: zerg players really don't use broodlings well enough yet. It's surprisingly rare that someone would actually control them separately. As a result, very often you see broodlings not doing anything.
P.S. The proper comparison would be with Infested Terrans. Shooting them from high ground does not reveal the infestors, because the infested terrans are fully autonomous - unlike interceptors.
Another proof of this difference is:
- When you kill a carrier, all interceptors die immediately
- When you kill a brood lord, his launched broodlings don't die immediately
- When you kill an infestor, his launched infested terrans don't die immediately
So no, it's not a bug, clearly. You won't see interceptors living without a carrier, ever; they are associated. But you would see broodlings living without a brood lord; they are separate. Working as intended.
Infestor is not an air unit so it doesn't get revealed when it attack from high ground. The broodlord is an air unit and, like all air units, it should be visible when he attacks from the high ground.
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Although I doubt it will have little to any impact on the game a good find non the less!
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On August 09 2011 17:35 Intricate1 wrote:To highlight the concept once again, Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 17:24 dogabutila wrote:
You wouldnt want the broodlords up there anyways. Towers, plus they can only control one path from the ledges.
It might be a factor in the future, on other maps. but that example is not one. So what your saying is there no situation in Starcraft where you maximize your advantage by positioning a broodlord on the highlighted high ground and using the mechanic in the OP? Obviously not so plz refer to the previous post, "Not considering the OP in the everyday use of your broodlords is just wasting advantage."
I'm sure you could make a magical situation where it would be better to place the broodlords there.
However, optimally, the broodlords would be in the middle. They can control both paths from there instead of just one. On the highlighted ground they are in range of ground units such as stalkers (who can blink up to there) and sentries. Thus, they are potentially attackable anyways.
Again, I'm sure you could craft some scenario wherein you would put the broodlords up there, but i'm not sure how realistic it would be. Compared to having them in the middle, there are just too many disadvantages.
Read carefully. This mechanic might be a factor in the future on other maps, but that example is not one. There situations where you would rather have the broodlords over those cliffs are few and far between, and probably would only result from you committing them poorly anyways.
Really, what reason would you rather have them over the cliff then the middle? Merely because they are unseen? You can't shoot at them when they are in the middle anyways....
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On August 09 2011 15:52 MandoRelease wrote:
I don't see how this could be game changing. Even if blizzard make it so that it shows the broodlord when the broodlord attack, you still would not be able to attack the broodlord unless you actually have vision. Doesn't change a thing.
Plus, about the broodlord attack. As far as I understand it, here is how it works. The broolord throws a broodling and make 20 damage, then the broodling attack and deal something like 4 damage (am i correct on that ?). That means, when the broodlord has 2 broodlings behind him, when he attacks, he launches 2 broodlings and deals an immediate 40 damage and brings 2 broodlings on the field, then has to wait for a broodling to respawn behind him before attacking again.
So it just may be that the 20 initial damage are tied to the broodling (which makes sense, since the broodlord can't attack unless he has at least one broodling ready behind him). And thus would explain why we don't see the broodlord on the high ground.
How does it differ from a weapon of, let's say, a vicking ? Well, there are differences in the fact that the wiking always deal the same amount of damage every y.xx seconds (help me on that one), while the broodlord's attack depends on the amount of broodling he has ready to be thrown.
But maybe blizzard will decide that they don't like that anymore, and will show the broodlord. It won't change a thing though, since you need actual vision the attack it, like for every other unit attacking from the high ground.
EDIT : After looking at the picture in the first post, I have to wonder why the carrier lost some HP. I mean you can't attack tanks or canons from the low ground if you don't have vision of them. That would be a bug if you could attack the carrier without vision. Nothing to do with the broodlord. The carrier thing is the bug here, as far as i'm concerned.
EDIT 2 : OK I misunderstood a few things originally. I thought the issue was that the broodlord was not revealed, i did not read that the carrier could be attacked. My mistake. Well, I don't think the issue here lies with the broodlord. The carrier should not be attacked.
Flying units and colossus can be attacked if they are attacking something from high ground.
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Cool find, but I doubt it'll make much practical difference in games, if at all. I don't see it as a bug, though. It's just a characteristic of the broodlord in my book.
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On August 09 2011 09:47 Clearout wrote:
Don't really see it making a difference (unless protoss misplaced his observer or something). Nice find nonetheless!
Yes, there is no way for a zerg to snipe the observer and then proceed to absuse this fact.
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Thanks to Terrans/Protoss and their Tanks/Colossi that make cliffs behind Naturals "unfair" this won't/is not much of an issue :p.
Just think of Naturals like on LT and Kulas and you know why this actually makes a huge diffrence when you try to engage Broodlords from the ground, the current maps just don't have many spots where this really comes into play (due to it being to exploitable by Tankdrops and Colossi/Blinkstalker).
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On August 09 2011 18:10 Velr wrote:
Thanks to Terrans/Protoss and their Tanks/Colossi that make cliffs behind Naturals "unfair" this won't/is not much of an issue :p.
Just think of Naturals like on LT and Kulas and you know why this actually makes a huge diffrence when you try to engage Broodlords from the ground, the current maps just don't have many spots where this really comes into play (due to it being to exploitable by Tankdrops and Colossi/Blinkstalker).
This is exactly what I mean. While there might be cute instances to use this mechanic for BL, it really isn't that big an issue because anywhere that they might really be used to advantage could also be used by tanks or collosi, and earlier in the game then BL could.
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All units firing from a cliff, be it ground or air should not be targetable if you do not have sight on them. Would give a slight defender's advantage, wich is always good in sc2.
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great find and welcome to tl, hopefully blizzard will patch this
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On August 09 2011 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay. In some situations, perhaps. However, I could imagine Brood Lords besieging an expansion from high ground while Turrets and Cannons are unable to fire back due to this high ground vision bug. I often see units abusing the high ground overlooking the low-ground expansions on Tal'Darim, and I can imagine a lone Brood Lord or two abusing that cliff while the main army is out of position. It's a very interesting find, and I imagine a lot more players and casters may start experimenting with this bug before Blizzard inevitably patches it... eventually.
I don't think high ground matters in that situation since the broodlord has more range than a turret or cannon anyway.
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On August 09 2011 18:17 NeonFox wrote:
All units firing from a cliff, be it ground or air should not be targetable if you do not have sight on them. Would give a slight defender's advantage, wich is always good in sc2.
That wouldn't give a defenders advantage. A defenders advantage would be giving highground a mechanic that always helped a person on the high ground. Not one that only works in the first portion of the game.
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On August 09 2011 17:36 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 10:15 figq wrote:
Interesting find, thanks. The reason, I suppose, could be that carrier's interceptors return to the carrier, and thus remain associated with it in some common class of objects, while broodlings once launched become fully autonomous units unrelated to the brood lord anymore, because they just die shortly. At least that's the only difference I can see.
/offtopic: zerg players really don't use broodlings well enough yet. It's surprisingly rare that someone would actually control them separately. As a result, very often you see broodlings not doing anything.
P.S. The proper comparison would be with Infested Terrans. Shooting them from high ground does not reveal the infestors, because the infested terrans are fully autonomous - unlike interceptors.
Another proof of this difference is:
- When you kill a carrier, all interceptors die immediately
- When you kill a brood lord, his launched broodlings don't die immediately
- When you kill an infestor, his launched infested terrans don't die immediately
So no, it's not a bug, clearly. You won't see interceptors living without a carrier, ever; they are associated. But you would see broodlings living without a brood lord; they are separate. Working as intended. Infestor is not an air unit so it doesn't get revealed when it attack from high ground. The broodlord is an air unit and, like all air units, it should be visible when he attacks from the high ground. No, my point is different - carriers get revealed not because they are air units which attack (in fact they don't; just launch interceptors), but because their interceptors are associated with them - as proven by the fact that the interceptors die when the carrier dies. That's not the case with broodlings which are autonomous and don't die when the brood lord dies. In this sense brood lords are closer to infestors. If, on the other hand, infested terrans worked like interceptors and were associated with the infestors (died when the infestor died), then upon revealing themselves they would reveal the infestor too, even if it's a ground unit, and not an air unit. Hope you get the point.
As to why Broodling Escort works differently than the other air attacks, it's clear by its design that it's more complex (has more effects and actions) and thus the result can't be compared to the other air attacks, so it's working as it has been designed. Whether that's fair or not is another discussion.
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That is pretty weird. Not of much use, but I feel that if they're going to let the Brood Lord do that, they should probably let the carrier do that too. Just a thought.
Interestingly enough, if you throw down an Autoturret or PDD, the ground units can't get vision of the Raven that threw it. But if you use a Seeker Missile, they can. Same thing applies to Overseers and Changling/Contaminate, respectively. So I'm guessing it has something to do with unit dependency, as figq stated.
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Hopefully will get fixed !
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Why is everyone hoping this will be "fixed"? I would say the Brood Lord works as intended. The BL just launches the ground-attacking broodlings. The carrier launches units capable of attacking air, so he will get revealed.
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Nice find, hope blizzard patches this soon, not that it will have any effect on gameplay but just to make the game more consistent.
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It already is consistent with the brood lord mechanic.
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Brood lords having the high ground is the name of my new band
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Oh well, I thought the better idea was to give the carriers the same ability instead of taking it away from the BL. Still, a fix is a fix.
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On August 09 2011 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 09:45 obesechicken13 wrote:
High ground is so gimmicky. It's not difficult to get vision, I doubt this has any real effect on gameplay. In some situations, perhaps. However, I could imagine Brood Lords besieging an expansion from high ground while Turrets and Cannons are unable to fire back due to this high ground vision bug. I often see units abusing the high ground overlooking the low-ground expansions on Tal'Darim, and I can imagine a lone Brood Lord or two abusing that cliff while the main army is out of position. It's a very interesting find, and I imagine a lot more players and casters may start experimenting with this bug before Blizzard inevitably patches it... eventually.
Broodlords outrange cannons and turrets anyway...
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Carriers are the stronger unit in all situations apart from this highly circumstantial situation. It is your opinion that this should be patched, it is my opinion that this is fine and does not need patching.
Really? Carriers are better than brood lords?
Really?
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On August 09 2011 09:49 Falcor wrote:
im going to assume its because broodlord has longer range then the stalkers(carrier has the same range as broodlord but is closer to the edge).
Range shouldn't factor into wether or not you can target it... Then a ling should only be able to scout w/e is actually in melee range? This is not a factor. Great find.
I find this actually to have somewhat great importance. As protoss - if a zerg snipes off my colos/air/obs I will have a hard time dealing with broods from high ground. I cannot target them - and will have a really rough time blinking beneath them. This is not a small thing.
Oh... Great first post
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On August 09 2011 09:57 Talin wrote:
This isn't really something that can be negligently discarded. One BL can basically shut down an entire expansion as other races rely a lot on static defense later on in the game (for their 4th and even 3rd).
Even if it dies eventually to an air unit, it would still be a decent trade.
Doesn't a Broodlord out range all static defense anyway? So the defense can only hit the broodlings, which are not the problem here. They are out of range even if they could see it.
I guess I fail to see how this is significant, surely the other player would have some kind of air unit or observer by the 17-20 minute range it takes to get Broodlords out.
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blizzard just fixed this in the updated 1.4 patch notes, good find OP, but i hate you
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On September 10 2011 00:55 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Show nested quote +Carriers are the stronger unit in all situations apart from this highly circumstantial situation. It is your opinion that this should be patched, it is my opinion that this is fine and does not need patching. Really? Carriers are better than brood lords? Really?
They're faster, more HP, more DPS, can attack ground and air, similar cost (50 minerals more for carrier), longer range after interceptors are released out. Carriers are pretty damn good!
Its just no one uses carriers. Not to mention obviously Carriers > BLs because BLs can't hit carriers.  lawl.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:25 TRod wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 00:55 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Carriers are the stronger unit in all situations apart from this highly circumstantial situation. It is your opinion that this should be patched, it is my opinion that this is fine and does not need patching. Really? Carriers are better than brood lords? Really? They're faster, more HP, more DPS, can attack ground and air, similar cost (50 minerals more for carrier), longer range after interceptors are released out. Carriers are pretty damn good! Its just no one uses carriers. Not to mention obviously Carriers > BLs because BLs can't hit carriers. lawl.
I don't want to get into a "which is better debate". But one of the hugest advantages of the broodlord is that the broodlings pin down the army that the Brood Lords are attacking. Kinda like built-in forcefields, pretty sweet Shit can just run underneath carriers.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Not really some time ago. It's in italics so it's new.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/17632026.jpg/)
