EPT[July] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 31
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lahey
United States41 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On August 09 2011 14:54 Heavenly wrote: The problem with "terran just has much better players than the other races in Korea" is that if there is actually any imbalance in the game, it's impossible to say if they are actually the better players or look better because their race is better at that level. For instance, what if Bomber was protoss, would people be as amazed by his play? If Polt was zerg, would he still have won the super tournament? Are people like Puzzle who win Code A just so much better than their opponents that he would have been a top terran? Would MC do better as terran? etc. I remember he offraced a lot of pros at HSC3 and won. I think he 3-0'd Nerchio with terran but I think at least a part of it was a good 2rax bunker rush. He also beat MMA in a joke offrace TvP at MLG but it may have been a joke game. Hard to say. We'll see what Blizzard does. PvT midgame seems fairly balanced. Late game seems to be based on skill and positioning. The HT and Colossus army and possibility of mass gateway is powerful but you almost never see terrans mass OCs and sacrifice their scvs (which is silly, people say protoss doesn't innovate but terrans still don't seem to be doing this when it's obviously excellent) and a lot of losses for either side have points in the engagement where you can say 'this went wrong'. However most protoss are getting hugely dominated by the 1-1-1, usually later in a bo3 where the protoss before just slaughtered the terran in a macro game (a lot of Ganzi's play in the qualifiers come to mind). Right now the PvT in Korea this month seems to be like...3 wins to 10 maybe? Small sample size atm though but there's been a good bit of dominance. Hell yes I wish he'd switch to terran. Imagine MC with like 100 effective all in's and his sick micro. eg Cloaked Banshee rush 2 port banshee cloak rush ghost nuke rush ghost rush 2 rax 2 rax marauder push 2 rax marauder all in 3 rax all in 1-1-1 all in and all it's variants bunker rush proxy rax proxy marauder proxy Thor rush proxy banshee rush proxy cloaked banshee rush 5 rax allin 6 rax allin etc etc etc. I think he would not lose. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 09 2011 08:14 SidianTheBard wrote: Except You need to do some type of harass to a zerg when you fast expand or else he will only double expand and/or drone pump and you will be behind anyway. What does a protoss have to do? Stargate & DTs expands are both "countered" (mostly) by 1 spore crawler at each base. So no DT or Stargate tech. This leaves a timing attack with gateways, which we've seen constantly the past 2 months and for the most part are slowly starting to get figured out and if the zerg scouts the massive amount of gateways going down toss will most likely lose. Finally we've got a collosus push or an archon push, but those can't happen until you get at least 3 or 4 of them so your ground army won't get completely decimated. Problem with going robo is if they go mutas (which our 6 or 7 gate timing attack was designed to crush) we will get owned by mutas and contained hard. If we don't do any pressure protoss have to sit back passively hoping they can get 3 base with a great economy and killing zerg in a single blow. It's getting to the point that toss can't do anything to a competent zerg now a day. I wouldn't say you can't do anything, but - as Blizzard seems to agree - Toss has no reliable harassment-options that do guaranteed damage like medivac drops. Even if they get picked up once in a while, if you just keep dropping aggressively I've always seen drops get through and clear a drone-line. Notice that I'm coming from warcraft 3 when I say that: but P has nothing compared to sair/reaver, which hurts really, really bad. P needs a reliable way of harassing/shutting down Z expansions, and with phoenixes doing actually zero dps to buildings and DTs being countered by one spore + one spine zergs can expand all over the place with little you can do about it. Currently I seen more and more toss players fall back to a very aggressive macro-style. Forge FE or one gate FE with many gateways and attack after warpgates are done. Even if you lose your stuff, you basicly trade zealots against larvae that could've been drones, while you can constantly produce probes yourself. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
 http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/100901685949505537 OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee RT: @SlayerSAlicia: David Kim..... Please save us..... | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
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Ctuchik
Sweden91 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:12 Ctuchik wrote: Thanks for posting this ZL, I totally forgot! It's still way to early to tell on the August stats, but so far they look pretty decent. So far Protoss is 4-8 vs Terran in the GSL. 2 of those wins are from Tassadar vs Fenix. So 2-8 if you only count Korean vs Korean. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:26 Die4Ever wrote: So far Protoss is 4-8 vs Terran in the GSL. 2 of those wins are from Tassadar vs Fenix. So 2-8 if you only count Korean vs Korean. Fenix was most definitely not on the same level as almost any korean. Tassadar killed him without actually trying to kill him. It was like a zerg dying to a 3gate sentry expand level of dying to pressure. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:07 Toadvine wrote: I kind of hope all the Protoss players in Code S die to Terran all-ins, then the same thing happens in Up/Downs, and we get maybe one Protoss remaining, alongside 7 Zergs and 24 Terrans. It would be hilarious beyond all measure. The funniest part is that this is actually likely. Though because of PvP a couple will make it out in the beginning. Now we have Naniwa and Sase, two of the best foreigner protoss outside of Korea (with Naniwa being seen as the best) going to Code A and I have a feeling they won't go too far either. So the whole "Korea just has no good protoss" argument will be funny to see because it'll be "the entire world has no good protosses" even though if you take a look at Naniwa's face after each tournament loss you know he practices his heart out probably 8-10+ hours a day. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17725 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:10 Heavenly wrote: The funniest part is that this is actually likely. Though because of PvP a couple will make it out in the beginning. Now we have Naniwa and Sase, two of the best foreigner protoss outside of Korea (with Naniwa being seen as the best) going to Code A and I have a feeling they won't go too far either. So the whole "Korea just has no good protoss" argument will be funny to see because it'll be "the entire world has no good protosses" even though if you take a look at Naniwa's face after each tournament loss you know he practices his heart out probably 8-10+ hours a day. I was only referring to this season so far. + Show Spoiler + Vanvanth lost 1-2 to Ganzi. Extreme lost 0-2 to SC. Tails lost 1-2 to Taeja. And MC lost to MVP and Noblesse. Edit: Woa, I could swear I quoted someone asking me which games I was counting, but I can't seem to find that post now, lol. | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:12 Ctuchik wrote: Thanks for posting this ZL, I totally forgot! It's still way to early to tell on the August stats, but so far they look pretty decent. Most welcome! Remember, all credits go to this guy here ^_^ Hope you do these charts like, forever, hahaha =p | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:12 Ctuchik wrote: Thanks for posting this ZL, I totally forgot! It's still way to early to tell on the August stats, but so far they look pretty decent. + Show Spoiler + 4-10 so far, with a 2-0 on Tassadar against a foreign terran | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On August 09 2011 15:04 tdt wrote: 2 rax 2 rax marauder push 2 rax marauder all in Wtf are you even goin on about? Please teach me how to 2 rax, 2 rax "marauder pooosh" and 2 rax "maruader all in". | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
if you take a look at Naniwa's face after each tournament loss you know he practices his heart out probably 8-10+ hours a day. What? Cause he gets pissed off? Practise doesnt make perfect. Perfect practise makes perfect. No one outside of Korea is practising perfectly. No one in Korea is either, but there a hell of a lot closer. | ||
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CatharsisUT
United States487 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + So, for the entire First round of Code A, Protoss are 2-7, and 1-6 if you remove the mirror. The one win was Tassadar vs Fenix, and I'm going to go ahead and posit that maybe it's not representative of even skill. We'll see how Code S goes. The most likely 'toss to advance is already out, and there are 7 left in Code S. | ||
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paradisefar
Canada20 Posts
sick of balance talk from looking at some 30-50 games each month in korean top level games and statistically, toss players are much whinier than other races, much more reactive to any "signs" of their up'ness, and thus toss got all the buffs and still don't quit on it. toss are just spoiled badly by blizzard. if u are not a pro level player, plz stop whining at the pro level stats, millions of other non-pro players need to enjoy this game. while u are whining, toss is still the most played race from gold to master(http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all) well, maybe blizzard should make toss less of a a-move race, so that people would stop saying it has lowest skill cap, and thus more pro actually play this race. | ||
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On August 10 2011 20:50 paradisefar wrote: and statistically, toss players are much whinier than other races, much more reactive to any "signs" of their up'ness, and thus toss got all the buffs and still don't quit on it. toss are just spoiled badly by blizzard. Ok, either share your parallel universe traveling technology or stop trolling. | ||
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