EPT'TSL expelled from SC2 Conference' - Page 12
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RusHXceL
United States1004 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:16 Zarahtra wrote: Also I can only say for Iceland, most people are contracted for x hours, not for x work. I don't know how it is in Korea though. There are tons of contracts everywhere where it's all about showing results. It's called "Werkvertrag" in German, don't know the exact English Legal Term, something like "contract to produce a work" | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:16 sleepingdog wrote: The problem is, that they didn't "stop" practicing, they joined the team intentionally, CLAIMING that they don't want the rigid ogs-practice-schedule. So you aquire players who state they don't want to practice hard and afterwards you fire them because they didn't practice hard? This just makes no sense...if I'm hired to work 30 hours a week, I can't possibly get fired because I refuse to work 40 hours. Well, coach lee himself stated that he wants to build a very "stress free" mode in the house, but since it doesn't work out, he wants to go into the rebuilding mode, and practice harder. I assume what happened is Tester and FD refused to work harder at the same time refuse to leave the team,, which lead to Coach lee not paying them until they work harder | ||
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:13 poorbeggarman wrote: FD and Tester had no contract, similar to how Puma didn't have one. They stopped getting paid after a random get-together by Coach and other players so that implies that they had no pre-existing disciplinary rules regarding player performance and payment. Timeline dude, timeline. They could get paid one month and the next month manager lies to them saying they're not receiving any sponsor moneyyy. They could have no place to go? Professional players slandering themselves to ruin their own reputation and future, excellent. -초상권에 대해서는 이적한 선수입장을 고려하여 지급을 의사를 밝혔습니다. 다만, TSL 소속일 때 생산된 컨텐츠이며, 곧바로 수정이 불가능하였고, 수정을 하는데 시간이 들 수 밖에 없었습니다. About the ads, due to those players leaving we brought up the idea of changing it, but due to the fact that the content was created while they were in TSl and the fact that it takes a while to modify the ads made it that it would take a lot of time to change the ads. -----------so Coach Lee is saying it was their responsibility to change it but because "it takes awhile" they just chose to run with em anyway. Nope, doesn't sound like G.Skill's responsibility to me. There was nothing random about it. TSL has always been in rough shape. They started this together. Once again you said it yourself. Everything was verbal. The money went towards the team something FD and Tester had no problem with before! The irony! If they weren't practicing they weren't practicing. There were 3 changes in direction. This isn't slander. This is what you call fact. You see coaches calling their players out in professional sports all the fucking time. This is no different. There are two parties in play. G Skill the sponsor who runs the ads and the team. It's a little more complicated than that. -_- | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:17 RusHXceL wrote: Now I don't blame PuMa for leaving TSL. Can we get a Mod in here and ban all those kids that brinign up this EG shit? | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:20 brachester wrote: Can we get a Mod in here and ban all those kids that brinign up this EG shit? why lol ? its exactly what everyone thinking that now it seems there was rumors in tsl before and i can good understand pumas decision to join EG stop forcing bans ... bm dude bm ! | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:19 brachester wrote: Well, coach lee himself stated that he wants to build a very "stress free" mode in the house, but since it doesn't work out, he wants to go into the rebuilding mode, and practice harder. I assume what happened is Tester and FD refused to work harder at the same time refuse to leave the team,, which lead to Coach lee not paying them until they work harder Exactly this is what I also believe has happened. Nevertheless then coach lee is 100% in the wrong. Again to my example: you are hired for 30 hours, suddenly your boss claims "damn, the work doesn't get done, your have to work 40 hours or you get fired" - at least in Austria that's just not possible. If the contract says 30 hours, then you are only obliged to work 30 hours. As long as you fulfil your contract, you can't get fired just because your boss thinks it's necessary for you to work longer. And if coach lee wants FD/Tester to practice harder despite them joining TSL for NOT having to do that....then it's his problem, not theirs. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:21 CoR wrote: why lol ? its exactly what everyone thinking that now it seems there was rumors in tsl before and i can good understand pumas decision to join EG stop forcing bans ... bm dude bm ! It's called a crock. All of you are jumping the gun and I agree. Everyone who doesn't read the thread shouldn't be commenting. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:16 sleepingdog wrote: The problem is, that they didn't "stop" practicing, they joined the team intentionally, CLAIMING that they don't want the rigid ogs-practice-schedule. So you aquire players who state they don't want to practice hard and afterwards you fire them because they didn't practice hard? This just makes no sense...if I'm hired to work 30 hours a week, I can't possibly get fired because I refuse to work 40 hours. It's different. You're hired as a player to win and to develop as a player. If you're not doing that then you should be reprimanded or fired. The matter of workload is a matter of work culture and ethics. If you can get by performing with minimal amount of work, then by all means. The fact that TSL then dropped in form and the management knew they had to buck up to please their sponsors, meant a change in culture. And since FD and Trickster weren't putting up with it despite the coach telling them to, the best way was to withhold payment (which had no contracts relating to it) to incentivize them to practice harder. It's the same with any other job. You're paid to do your work, and if you can't do it within the normal 8-9 hour working day, then you have to do an overtime. Otherwise, you're gone. On August 04 2011 22:21 CoR wrote: why lol ? its exactly what everyone thinking that now it seems there was rumors in tsl before and i can good understand pumas decision to join EG stop forcing bans ... bm dude bm ! Banning I don't agree. But bringing up EG/Puma even more I don't agree. These are two separate issues. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:03 Technique wrote: EG was still wrong... And in this case TSL coach Lee is very wrong. The mythical all-knowing beeing called "Technique" has spoken /sarcasm You know that it was only a matter of opinions about the EG/Puma drama, because "technically" they didn't do anything wrong. But i really hope this subject will show up an a show soon (looking at you djWheat, you are the community-drama tamer), hopefully with representitives. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:18 sleepingdog wrote: There are tons of contracts everywhere where it's all about showing results. It's called "Werkvertrag" in German, don't know the exact English Legal Term, something like "contract to produce a work" That still doesn't really fit well into a team, which you ignored. I mean for soccer fx. Víctor Valdés isn't going to get to chill for a week, because he has kept the goal clean for the season. The rest of the team depends on him to practise, so the other individual players can get their shit in order. | ||
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kellymilkies
Singapore1393 Posts
In addition(As an after thought) to the players preparing for the tournaments, the patches for the maps are very important. The fact that you always give these information late only to TSL players is very disappointing. You mean they get tournament maps later than other team? That's very disappointing indeed if that's the case. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:21 CoR wrote: why lol ? its exactly what everyone thinking that now it seems there was rumors in tsl before and i can good understand pumas decision to join EG stop forcing bans ... bm dude bm ! because this thread isnt about EG maybe? its about TSL and Tester/FD | ||
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b_unnies
3579 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:13 poorbeggarman wrote: FD and Tester had no contract, similar to how Puma didn't have one. They stopped getting paid after a random get-together by Coach and other players so that implies that they had no pre-existing disciplinary rules regarding player performance and payment. Actually they did have contracts. Timeline dude, timeline. They could get paid one month and the next month manager lies to them saying they're not receiving any sponsor moneyyy. They could have no place to go? Except FD + Trickster left before Clide/Sangho returned their money. I'm not sure what you're suggesting by no place to go. You mean that Clide+Sangho left TSL and then return TSL because no team wanted them? Or you mean Clide/Sangho were talking to other teams besides TSL's back ? Ok, teams did talk to Clide/Sangho behind TSL's back, but Clide/Sangho said no. Are you saying that some other TSL members were approached as well? Yes, I found out through this whole ordeal. When SangHo and Clide were approached by other teams, they told me that they declined the offers due to their respect for TSL and the importance of continuing with the team that they originally started with. They thought it was best not to tell me since they thought it would cause unnecessary distractions and concerns. Professional players slandering themselves to ruin their own reputation and future, excellent. So you're saying that said interview never occurred? -초상권에 대해서는 이적한 선수입장을 고려하여 지급을 의사를 밝혔습니다. 다만, TSL 소속일 때 생산된 컨텐츠이며, 곧바로 수정이 불가능하였고, 수정을 하는데 시간이 들 수 밖에 없었습니다. About the ads, due to those players leaving we brought up the idea of changing it, but due to the fact that the content was created while they were in TSl and the fact that it takes a while to modify the ads made it that it would take a lot of time to change the ads. -----------so Coach Lee is saying it was their responsibility to change it but because "it takes awhile" they just chose to run with em anyway. Nope, doesn't sound like G.Skill's responsibility to me. You had a problem with Coach Lee "slandering" his players, now you think that Coach Lee should "slander" G.Skill? Isn't that pretty hypocritical? | ||
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DDAngelo
United States71 Posts
"1. While we acknowledge that disciplining players who negatively affect the team is fair, withholding wages without any prior notification is wrong. 5. The team has an obligation to continue paying promised wages until the players are released." If you aren't performing at your job, you don't get your wages withheld, you get fired. For as long as you still work there, you should be paid. | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:16 sleepingdog wrote: The problem is, that they didn't "stop" practicing, they joined the team intentionally, CLAIMING that they don't want the rigid ogs-practice-schedule. So you aquire players who state they don't want to practice hard and afterwards you fire them because they didn't practice hard? This just makes no sense...if I'm hired to work 30 hours a week, I can't possibly get fired because I refuse to work 40 hours. Yeah, but the conditions on which they joined with might have changed. TSL's response said something about the two players not showing interest in the rebuilding process which most likely meant stricter practice hours and tigher routines. Now, if their initial contracts (if they had them) specifically had clauses about what kind of practice they were allowed to get away with, I can understand perfectly where their grievance comes from. However, if there were no contracts or the contracts didn't mention anything about practice hours, I would say that they could've been more accomodating to the change. It's still all speculation though without knowing the full details. | ||
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
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