EPTSundance has taken a lot of risks to right the ship. Hopefully it works out for him.
MLG Potential Prize Pool Increase - Page 17
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Sundance has taken a lot of risks to right the ship. Hopefully it works out for him. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On July 30 2011 03:58 StarStruck wrote: I agree Funnel. I honestly think he needs to triple his subscriber numbers, but that is all speculation. Well, membership is a new thing, haven't gotten that much press and this is the first event that people are able to buy it. I would say that 30-40k would be a really nice figure and the potential for it to reach 100k is very good, with the right marketing on stream etc. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
If more people give MLG money they will obviously increase their prize pool. No shit. I don't understand how this is a useful post at all. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. ♥ You Sunny. You put that asshole Incontrol in his place. I've had my gold membership since it was announced! | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:04 hmunkey wrote: Well yeah... If more people give MLG money they will obviously increase their prize pool. No shit. I don't understand how this is a useful post at all. BECAUSE ITS TO SUPPORT E SPORTS DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?!>?!?! | ||
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CidO
United States695 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. I've given a lot of shit to Sundance before (that probably wasn't flung hard enough to hit him) but Columbus was a success for the viewers and therefore I'll be buying a membership. Aim for 100,000, land at about 40,000 it's still a success. But since a player like iNcontroL isn't appreciative sundance, can the fans who are putting the money in see a bigger return on the tournaments since obviously the pros aren't wanting to support that? | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. This here should end any debate by itself, and thanks to Sundance to even take the time to respond. | ||
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Konsume
Canada466 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? + Show Spoiler + You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. After reading this post I just bought the pass and will buy them systematicaly till I quit SC2. 30$ a year isn't pretty huge for me... so if it can support pro-gaming why not! If there is anything else I can do to help just msg  Keep going Sundance | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On July 30 2011 03:21 carloselcoco wrote: You work Saturdays and Sundays too? Also, buying the membership gets you the VOD.... No, I only work at a simple fast food resturant, but my work schedule is completely random. I was working all weekend last MLG, and I need to work the first two days of this one. And I don't like VODs. Being part of the Live Report thread is part of the experience for me. Also, in an event like MLG, it has downtime and such so it makes the LR thread much more fun. | ||
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Secret05
United States342 Posts
buying my mlg pass as we speak!! | ||
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kentarre
United States28 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:04 CidO wrote: I've given a lot of shit to Sundance before (that probably wasn't flung hard enough to hit him) but Columbus was a success for the viewers and therefore I'll be buying a membership. Aim for 100,000, land at about 40,000 it's still a success. But since a player like iNcontroL isn't appreciative sundance, can the fans who are putting the money in see a bigger return on the tournaments since obviously the pros aren't wanting to support that? I give a lot of respect to the pros for doing what they do. But their word isn't golden. iNcontroL's response to this thread was fairly ignorant in my opinion, as he did not understand the business ramifications and justifications for Sundance's statement and request. He did NOT give an ultimatum or a threat. In fact he was being much more transparent than any business owner I have seen. He actually revealed the fact that if he wasn't able to hit a certain tier of memberships, he wouldn't be able to support the prize pool he is currently providing. NO business owner of any sort readily reveals that their business is in subject to downsizing. Yet so many people (it seems) are grabbing the pitchforks and rallying to the cause, stating greed, shady business practices, and everything in between. The simple fact of the matter is that MLG has put out. It hosted awesome events, it partnered with GSL to bring in awesome players. It brought in great casters, dedicated streams (and now the main stage) to Starcraft 2. Provided a great venue for players (that is NOT stationary and allows for spectators from around the nation to participate), and so forth. WHY are we complaining about a, frankly speaking, small contribution of a person's yearly income to help promote this to become even better? WHY is a PRO PLAYER whom this GREATLY BENEFITS complaining about this? The statement is obvious, put in money, get more out of it. Its as simple as that. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
His company needs a certain income to be able to pay for all his expenses plus the prize pools. Depending on the number of subscribers, he has to cut or add money to either production or prize pools. MLG, specially recently, has showed us they value production much more than prizes, which in my opinion is a good business decision. As long as your prize money is enough to attract the players, which seems to be the case right now, they try to get the best production possible to please the viewers, so they get more viewers/subscribers, so then they can add the extra money to the prize pool. But for this to happen, they need that increase in subscribers. It's diferent from what NASL did, where they put a lot of money on the prize pool but their production was lacking, compared to MLG. It's understandable, considering their close connection the the players, wanting to make progaming a viable way to support themselfs. But which one would attract more people to actually pay money? Seeing amazing production or knowing the prize pool is big? Now, MLG has to prove that their model worked, that the added production made a diference on their income, that more people started paying, so they can start paying back to the teams. If they don't reach a reasonable increase even with all the quality increase they gave us recently, what does that show us about their investments? Were they for nothing and they should have kept having no benches and stream problems? If they show that investing money = making more money, it makes it much easier to actually attract more investors. That's just how I, with no business experience at all, see their situation. I don't completelly agree with everything Sundance said, and it would awesome if they actually release some information so we could actually know what's going on, but I do see some logic behind his statement that's more than just begging for money. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. haha wow, haven't seen incontrol shut down so hard in a while. Good man, Sundance. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
Well played Mr Giovanni, or not well played, i'm not entirely sure. | ||
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Arch00
United States233 Posts
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote: Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success? You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale. Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends. Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up. I bought my gold membership before reading this post, but after reading it I feel even better about doing so. Keep the dream alive Sundance! | ||
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Nerdslayer
Denmark1130 Posts
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:16 kentarre wrote: WHY is a PRO PLAYER whom this GREATLY BENEFITS complaining about this? Uhm, I have not seen a pro player in this topic complaining about anything. Incontroll just stated the obious which was obious. If a company gets more people to pay 30$ to watch starcraft 2, than any other company has got people to watch starcraft for free, its kinda obious they are gona raise the prize pool which is atm lower than most SC2 tourniez. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:22 leakingpear wrote: So apparently MLG went from a business that relies almost entirely on advertising and other sources of income to a company that's completely dependent on directly selling services to the user. Either they're under pressure from VC to actually turn a profit after not having done so for years or they're on very shakey ground financially for Sundance to directly appeal in the vein of a carnival game stand operator instead of keeping finance details in stockholder reports and fiscal year reports like every other company ever. Or it's a cynical ploy to push impressionable people into supporting a service they wouldn't have otherwise through the idea that they have a communal obligation to support a private company. Well played Mr Giovanni, or not well played, i'm not entirely sure. A business model based on subs, not a lot of ads, is a much better one. Subs are more loyal and will not creat great ups and downs in revenue, like ads do. Ad revenues are always up for negotiation in "real" business. To shape MLG into a company with a solid ground for years to come is a well played, nothing else. | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
the way i personally am taking it is that its either get 100k memberships or see mlg sc2 shrink which is quite unreasonable. perhaps im taking this wrong. | ||
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kentarre
United States28 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:28 Sea_Food wrote: Uhm, I have not seen a pro player in this topic complaining about anything. Incontroll just stated the obious which was obious. If a company gets more people to pay 30$ to watch starcraft 2, than any other company has got people to watch starcraft for free, its kinda obious they are gona raise the prize pool which is atm lower than most SC2 tourniez. I did say just A pro player and I took his comment as negative. From the responses of other posters and Sundance, I would say that I am not alone in that feeling. The fact that iNcontroL was also a professional player signed to a team is why I decided to state it in that manner. | ||
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