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On July 22 2011 13:26 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore... I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice. The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing. Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain. Ty @ wtreddit for translating! The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort.
You're A) wrong and B) an ass.
If you dislike how EG has handled this then A) contact their management, B) Vote with your feet (Don't watch events they run, don't watch their streams) and C) support the sponsors of the team(s) you do like rather then EG's when making purchases.
Going to MLG and booing players is completely pointless, spiteful and incredibly rude.
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hopefully, OGN/MBC will be able to get on board and help boost SC2 in Korea
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If anything, this gives me so much more respect for Clide and SangHo/Killer.
Understandable that they didn't want to concern the coach with the fact they've been approached.
Makes me wonder whether PuMa felt the same, or perhaps EG just asked him to keep quiet.. ?
+ Show Spoiler +PuMa did a Lebron, that's how it felt to me.
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On July 22 2011 13:30 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:26 aksfjh wrote:On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore... I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice. The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing. Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain. Ty @ wtreddit for translating! The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort. You're A) wrong and B) an ass. If you dislike how EG has handled this then A) contact their management, B) Vote with your feet (Don't watch events they run, don't watch their streams) and C) support the sponsors of the team(s) you do like rather then EG's when making purchases. Going to MLG and booing players is completely pointless, spiteful and incredibly rude.
How is it pointless? You don't think their sponsors will notice?
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Massive props to Clide and Sangho.
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On July 22 2011 12:58 Charger wrote:
The more I read what Lee says the more blame I put on him, both for no contracts and the drama that has ensued. In the interview, he says he warned Puma about the drama that would follow but it seems like Lee is the one throwing out interviews and angry statements that only help create the drama. I understand being angry and feeling betrayed but if he REALLY cared about Puma, he certainly could have helped the situation by handling the behind the scenes stuff behind the scenes. For instance, just give out the news in a simple, factual statement - that Puma has gone to EG. Instead, he gave interviews when he was/is very angry and emotional and it has helped to elevate this situation far beyond what it should have been.
I also think EG is at fault so it's certainly not all on Lee - far from it. I have heard Lee is a great guy so I feel bad for him, just wish he would have handled it differently, for the sake of Puma who had the guts to talk to him personally and obviously felt a ton of sadness about wanting to leave.
The drama would have started either way, because one second you see him representing TSL and then EG the next, it would make all the fans of both Puma and TSL question what happened. The trust that Lee put in Puma is the same some teams do for their players. In most parts of asian countries, the honor system still stands, because they don't see them as just an employee, but more like a son or a family member. The other reason is most likely the since TSL was suppose to be a pretty lenient, they didn't force the contract.
In asian culture, and on the BW scene, normally you if a team (suitor) was interested, you would go ask the management of the players team about the trade(parents), unless the team with the player was advertising about trading their players. It is not about Puma wanting to join EG, but the disrespect that Puma and EG had shown towards them. EG showed a cultural disrespect, while Puma show disrespect through given trust.
Lee wouldn't feel as angry as he was if
-Puma had told him when he made the decision instead of prolonging it by saying he isn't troubled by anything.
-If Puma showed his team a little more courtesy, (even though this may be biased due to the information from the post) by telling them that he wanted to move on instead of not telling them after he had accepted the contract, and trying to leave without saying a word(he eventually did, but it had to be somewhat ripped out of him)
-If EG had told Team TSL that they were interested in Puma instead of offering him behind closed doors.
Drama would have started either way, but who knows what would of happened if Lee didn't show his anger, instead it might be the fans when they see that Puma is no longer a member of TSL.
He did show Puma that he cared by not putting him on a contract like most players in BW, but why should Lee hold back when Puma just did something dishonoring?
Lee has a right to be angry, but some fault still lies on him, invoking the drama that may or may not have been as big as fan reactions if no one mentioned it.
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On July 22 2011 13:32 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:30 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 13:26 aksfjh wrote:On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore... I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice. The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing. Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain. Ty @ wtreddit for translating! The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort. You're A) wrong and B) an ass. If you dislike how EG has handled this then A) contact their management, B) Vote with your feet (Don't watch events they run, don't watch their streams) and C) support the sponsors of the team(s) you do like rather then EG's when making purchases. Going to MLG and booing players is completely pointless, spiteful and incredibly rude. How is it pointless? You don't think their sponsors will notice?
No.
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New Zealand346 Posts
Feel bad for coach lee. Puma... what a dick move. At least give a months notice or something.
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Puma has enough skills to command a higher standard of living, and chooses to take an offer from Evil Geniuses. EG gets flak for offering that to him. What?
Puma has to make a big life decision at a young age regarding his career and financial state. That isn't something easy to do, especially when you are that young. I am all for respecting your roots and being thankful to those who helped you get to where you are, but if a big opportunity comes around like this, and your mentors and teammates are upset that you wish to move on, then I would find that kind of shitty. Being emotional about a player like this leaving is completely understandable, but holding a grudge or expressing ill will on either PuMa or EG wouldn't be. dJWheat summed it up pretty well with his story of a star player on his team leaving for another team who could offer him salary, and how he was upset, but understood and recognized the reasons that the player left, and wished him the best of luck with his future.
On the other hand, yes, PuMa made the mistake of being quiet about it as coach lee stated and not speaking with him directly with a simple, "hey, EG offered me this nice contract and I am seriously considering it, I just wanted you to know". Even though Clide and SangHo said they kept quiet about their offers, I'm assuming they didn't take them seriously. Had they, I'm sure they would have said something to their coach, given the maturity levels they have shown. Instead, PuMa suddenly was like, "hey, I'm leaving, EG just offered me a contract", and packed his things. I can see that as something to look down on, but like I said, he is a young kid who probably doesn't know how to handle the situation. I guess that can be attributed to maturity (not in a bad way), but to fault EG seems weird to me. PuMa himself knows he bobbled the situation, and said he is completely prepared to take the criticism that is likely to follow, but to direct hate or blame towards EG doesn't seem very logical. They see a dominant rising star player (korean or not), and express interest to the player. That happens in every sport. Watch the european football transfer market after the next world cup event. It would have gone smoother if PuMa had handled it better. Either he could have told the coach to contact EG, or told EG to contact the coach. Instead, he kind of made everything public himself and failed to connect the lines of communication between the two parties.
I don't dislike PuMa as a person or a player based on one little maturity error in handling something that takes a great deal of maturity and experience to handle correctly. It really isn't as big of a situation as it is being made out to be.
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Is that the same coach as the one in MBC?
Huh.
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Nice interview, it's interesting to hear Coach Lee's side/opinions on all these matters.
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Thanks for the interview, person from reddit! Very enlightening on the SC2 situation in Korea.
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Clide and Sangho are class acts.
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On July 22 2011 13:33 whaty0uwant wrote:
Feel bad for coach lee. Puma... what a dick move. At least give a months notice or something.
Puma didn't even sign a contract yet.
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On July 22 2011 13:31 Sukari wrote:If anything, this gives me so much more respect for Clide and SangHo/Killer. Understandable that they didn't want to concern the coach with the fact they've been approached. Makes me wonder whether PuMa felt the same, or perhaps EG just asked him to keep quiet.. ? + Show Spoiler +PuMa did a Lebron, that's how it felt to me.
No...not even close. Lebron was disliked because he made a mockery of Cleveland with his public decision and the celebration he did afterwards.
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On July 22 2011 13:32 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:30 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 13:26 aksfjh wrote:On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore... I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice. The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing. Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain. Ty @ wtreddit for translating! The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort. You're A) wrong and B) an ass. If you dislike how EG has handled this then A) contact their management, B) Vote with your feet (Don't watch events they run, don't watch their streams) and C) support the sponsors of the team(s) you do like rather then EG's when making purchases. Going to MLG and booing players is completely pointless, spiteful and incredibly rude. How is it pointless? You don't think their sponsors will notice?
You don't even know what EG did. We've heard one side of the story, and that was from a disgruntled coach whose team is falling apart. Obviously there are issues here with this team and he is ADMITTING THEY ARE HAVING PROBLEMS. It sounds to me like this thing is a sinking ship. They have no money, almost lost their sponsor, this guy might be nice and all but at what point does loyalty and stupidity start to look the same?
For all we know EG went up to him and said, "Hey would you like to join us?" He could have just said, "No I'm with TSL thanks."
People need to wake up. You don't think this is how shit works in the real world?
Ok, how about everyone in this thread trade places with Puma.
What we know he'll get from EG :
Salary - Guaranteed money.
Opportunity to Travel the world - Earn more money attending more winnable tournaments.
Exposure - He'll gain more fans traveling and have more sponsor opportunities.
What he was getting from TSL :
No Salary.
Occasional chances to travel to tournaments, but no promises to be able to attend MLG's, Dreamhack, etc.
Being a part of a team struggling financially and risky their sponsorship.
Credit for being loyal and hoping somehow the team turns around after losing several good players. Loyalty is great, but it doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table 3 years from now when he is no longer to play SC2 at a high level.
Seems like a pretty obvious and smart choice. Clide should have left too and he'll regret not leaving. This happens in business all the time, happens in sports all the time, I don't get why people are shocked, I don't get why anyone is mad at Puma, I don't get why anyone is mad at EG. If TSL was a better team providing a setup that their players enjoyed they wouldn't be hemorrhaging players left and right. If you know the business you worked at was going under and another job came along would you stay loyal knowing things looked bad and pass up on the job? I wouldn't.
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On July 22 2011 13:37 [Atomic]Peace wrote:
Clide and Tester are class acts.
did you even read the interview?
tester aka ssks aka trickster is now with Startale
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Clide and Sangho are very manner.
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Sounds like he isn't happy with the way GOM runs the GSL or how the SC2 license is used in Korea.
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On July 22 2011 13:41 Condor Hero wrote:did you even read the interview? tester aka ssks aka trickster is now with Startale
He likely meant Clide and Killer...
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EPT
