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TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
764 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 39 Next All
maliceee
Profile Joined August 2010
United States634 Posts
July 22 2011 04:21 GMT
#101
Coach Lee....

red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
July 22 2011 04:22 GMT
#102
I get so sad reading this article. If even a mid-tier team like TSL is having money problems then I don't even know how teams like MVP and Hoseo are going to survive.
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
July 22 2011 04:23 GMT
#103
Don't think you can feel anything but some sadness and sympathy for Lee (and much love for Clide and Sangho...wow).

What EG did wasn't illegal or anything, and Puma did what was best for him - but it doesn't make it any less dissapointing.

Also, great to have some true words (although we all knew it) about the lackluster scene in Korea (and the difficulty for gamers there).
the farm ends here
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
July 22 2011 04:23 GMT
#104
On July 22 2011 13:20 Sultan.P wrote:
Wow, Puma and EG are looking really bad here. I guess since Puma wasn't contracted with TSL there isn't technically anything 'wrong' about this, but this whole transaction looks fishy and shows no class at all. Bad Puma! Long live clide and sangho!


...What's wrong with Puma wanting A) a contract and B) to be payed?

FFS whatever you think of Coach Lee and EG after all this don't go shitting on Puma.
generalyao
Profile Joined July 2011
United States262 Posts
July 22 2011 04:25 GMT
#105
I feel bad for TSL but looking at the flip side, seeing how rough the sc2 pro scene is in korea, can you blame korean pro players for wanting to move to the foreign scene where there is easier competition, more fan support and sponsors, and more money to be made?

It unfortunately seems like at least right now, it's a zero sum game. Good for us (the foreigners) but not good for the korean scene.
spybreak
Profile Joined October 2010
United States684 Posts
July 22 2011 04:25 GMT
#106
Where are these training videos that Coach mentioned? Nvm I won't understand them anyway =(

FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
July 22 2011 04:25 GMT
#107
Whatever unspoken "rules" exist in Korea about how they handle players doesn't have to exist everywhere else in the world. The great thing about eSports is that it doesn't have to be about location or nationality. Players can find ways to play together, practice, travel to events, etc. even if they aren't living in the same country. The teams and coaches in Korea have to understand there is great opportunity outside of Korea right now and it is going to be hard to blame players looking to go after those opportunities.

You are going to see more of this in SC2 because the money for SC2 isn't in Korea. The SC2 scene in Europe and NA is really booming and there is money there especially for the talented but 2nd tier Korean players. Puma can stay in Korea and do OK, or he can join EG and travel the world and be a stud and make money while it is there to be made. Now when I say the money is there it might not always be the big GSL payday, but there are so many more smaller tournaments with more spread prize pools that your chances of coming away with something are much greater.

One thing with eSports, it can be a fickle beast. Games can really decline and potentially die at anytime. Right now SC2 seems to be doing well and there is money being put into it, players who are smart will do all they can to earn it while they can because you never know if that well might dry up. I think it is safe to say we'll enjoy SC2 for a long time with the expansions and all, but that doesn't always mean the money will be there just because the game is. Again, I think SC2 is going to really flourish as an eSport but I don't think it will be in Korea.

I respect that a player like Clide stayed, but it is a decision he might regret. Loyalty is overrated because you are really banking on the other side reciprocating it at some point and that can be risky(it happens in sports all the time, one player remains loyal but gets hurt and then gets cut by the team he was loyal to, etc.)

My last point, from interviews and what I can gather about how Korean players are treated I think this could be a good thing. I think Korean players are often talked about not even as people but borderline indentured servants. They have rigid practice schedules, live in tight quarters, have minimal pay.... and all that and you might never even make it to Code S where you can actually make some money. Puma isn't going through all this just because he feels like it. The offer he got had to be much better than his current situation because if it was just marginally better he probably stays. Now this isn't all the teams and I know some players are very comfortable but you hear in the interview they have players on TSL not even on a salary but a stipend? Seriously, you are surprised that players are leaving your team when he admits they are barely holding on to their sponsors, having money problems? Sounds to me like Puma was smart here and saw what was coming and made sure to take care of himself before this thing folded.
King of Kings
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany481 Posts
July 22 2011 04:25 GMT
#108
Interesting. Hearing this interviews makes it look like SC2 is really small in Korea and alot of teams have huge problems finding sponsors. If this trend continues and SC2 stays strong in the West, many Koreans will join Western Teams.
Fan of: MarineKingPrime.WE | MVP_Keen | LiquidTLO | oGs.MC
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
July 22 2011 04:26 GMT
#109
Good to hear a statement from Coach Lee, this clears things up a bit.

I'm really hoping the sc2 team structure gets settled down soon. It's unacceptable that teams are still being run like WoW guilds at this level.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 22 2011 04:26 GMT
#110
On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:
On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore...

I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice.


The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing.

Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain.

Ty @ wtreddit for translating!


The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort.
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
July 22 2011 04:26 GMT
#111
Killer and Clide sound like real stand-up guys...

Now if they could live up to the Artosis hype.
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
July 22 2011 04:26 GMT
#112
On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:
On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore...

I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice.


The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing.

Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain.

Ty @ wtreddit for translating!

The players are the most important part of the organization, you can't really support EG's players but not support EG. They don't care if you don't support the management as long as you support their players.
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
July 22 2011 04:27 GMT
#113
Nice interview, hopefully TSL can bounce back as they were a powerhouse before
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 04:30:34
July 22 2011 04:28 GMT
#114
On July 22 2011 13:23 TheButtonmen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 13:20 Sultan.P wrote:
Wow, Puma and EG are looking really bad here. I guess since Puma wasn't contracted with TSL there isn't technically anything 'wrong' about this, but this whole transaction looks fishy and shows no class at all. Bad Puma! Long live clide and sangho!


...What's wrong with Puma wanting A) a contract and B) to be payed?

FFS whatever you think of Coach Lee and EG after all this don't go shitting on Puma.


I guess you missed the part where he was supposedly part of a team decision to stay strong together after FD/Trickster left.

Edit: Not that that confirms it, but from how the story was told, it does cast a little doubt on Puma, plus the part where he wasn't acting himself. He clearly had misgivings about the whole thing and probably feels bad.
daxile
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada829 Posts
July 22 2011 04:28 GMT
#115
KesPa wins in the end really. The Korean scene is just not where it needs to be and it's still incredible how these koreans are still doing well despite the fact.

Blizzard dun goofed
to live is to suffer
panzer
Profile Joined May 2009
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 04:29:10
July 22 2011 04:28 GMT
#116
a good reminder that you cant rely on honor,fluff and rainbows to make a living.
빈 수레가 요란하다
mr.grimm
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden63 Posts
July 22 2011 04:28 GMT
#117
Huge props to Lee and the rest of TSL. I hope all Korean teams takes measures to prevent shit like this from happening again, there are no honor and loyalty in the western world, only money and a quest to be as big as possible. The reason I liked to watch Brood War was to see the Koreans duke it out at the highest level possible, same applies to Starcraft 2. I don't give a fuck about foreigners playing. Whine all you want about the "growth of e-sports", we all know how Brood War did, hopefully Starcraft 2 can pick that up when/if BW dies out.
Rinrun
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada3509 Posts
July 22 2011 04:29 GMT
#118
Coach Lee is such a nice guy... I remember him from his MBC days (MBC fighting~).
Thanks for bringing this from Reddit, I don't really wade in those waters.

Coach Lee fighting, TSL fighting!
MBC/Liquid/TSM always.
kethers
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States719 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 04:29:48
July 22 2011 04:29 GMT
#119
On July 22 2011 13:26 aksfjh wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 22 2011 13:20 acidbean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 12:52 Duravi wrote:
On July 22 2011 12:49 StyLeD wrote:
EG.....nice on the outside, they seem like normal people, jackasses on the inside. I'm not supporting EG or Puma anymore...

I honestly hope their players get booed at MLG, I dont think they will take anything the community says seriously until their sponsors notice.


The players aren't involved in this, this would be just wrong in my opion. EG on the other hand "lost my support", not because that they signed (or will sign ...) Puma, just with their behavior towards this whole thing.

Also huge respect to Clide & SangHo for sticking to their team, even returning saleries to help the team. I liked them before, but that hardend it a bit more. Also nice to hear the background on the departure of Rain.

Ty @ wtreddit for translating!


The only way to let EG know we don't like them is to take it out on their product: their players. It's not like they do anything big as a team effort.


True enough I suppose, less expose/fans and less purchase of EG-sponsored products hits them in the wallets where it hurts more than flames on a message board. (BTW, I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with the action)
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
July 22 2011 04:30 GMT
#120
So Clide and SangHo were salaried so they felt secure enough to contribute back to the team. Puma wasn't and so went somewhere where they can give him exactly what those two have. I don't feel very sorry for the coach if he considered a contract but didn't especially since other players had them.

I just don't have a big problem with this I guess. Especially since it sounds like the coach made a pretty huge assumption about how far along the Puma/EG process was.
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