Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 340

On July 23 2011 00:39 Toadvine wrote:
I'm going to try to provide a bit of a different perspective on this whole incident. Do note that I'm by no means an expert on the KR scene, and I'll mostly be speculating based on media coverage of various events. Still, I do believe this needs to be said, if only for the sake of moving the discussion into more interesting territories.

Now, SC2 is not nearly as big in SK as it is worldwide. The blame for this can mostly be attributed to the unseemly Blizzard vs. Kespa conflict, and the following impression that SC2 is supposed to replace BW (which is still very popular over there) among Korean fans. Still, it's an undisputable fact that SC2 is underperforming in SK, even acknowledged by Mike Morhaime himself during an Activision Blizzard Financial Conference Call. And there aren't really any major signs of things getting better over there.

What does this mean for the teams? For one, finding sponsors is not easy for them. Even a great team like IM was lacking a major sponsor for a long time, and ended up wearing McDonalds uniforms as part of the deal they eventually got. Then you have fOu basically going bankrupt and barely getting saved by FXO, TSL's current problems, the fact that a huge majority of pro players in SK don't have an actual salary, and you can see that the scene isn't exactly financially stable.

So, why do these teams continue to exist, and why do players continue with their draconic practice regime for nothing more than food and board in a cramped apartment, and the perspective of perhaps winning some money after two extremely unforgiving qualification tournaments? It's because of expectations - there is a fairly realistic expectation that SC2 will eventually hit it off in SK, and that they will be sitting at the top of the proverbial food chain at that time. But that's all an uncertain future, in the present the coaches recruit hopeful talent into their team house, and hope for the best. There are no contracts for these players, because why would there be a need for any? They haven't really accomplished anything, they don't get paid for what they do, it really seems like an unnecessary formality, if they can get by without it.

Realize, that Puma was basically a nobody before his huge NASL win. He played a few games in the GSTL, but didn't even qualify for Code A during the 10 months he was with TSL. He was very much an investment on the part of the team. And then, when he finally realizes some of his potential at a foreign tournament, a Western e-sports organization approaches him during that same tournament, and he accepts their offer.

Legally, this is all completely fine, and business as usual. However, I can understand why the TSL coach would be pissed. Also, consider the implication of this deal, for the KR scene. What if Nestea's contract ends at some point, and an organization like SK-gaming offers him more than his team can afford, and he accepts. This really just seems very unfair to the Korean teams, who do the "dirty work", recruting hopeful players and training them, so they might achieve some success in the future; and then more wealthy Western organizations swooping in to pick the best performers, without having invested much at all in the development of either scene.

This would really be a pathological relationship, and I can see how this might force the Korean teams into a Kespa-like structure, which honestly won't be good for anyone involved.

On July 23 2011 02:32 CosmicSpiral wrote:


Reread my post again. Also, eBay is a model of transparency.

- In exchange for a small (registration), you have the ability to buy and sell on the market. This is not restricted to anything other than the amount of money you have and the time you are willing to invest.
- Items can be seen and bid on by anyone. Items can be sold by anyone.
- The Feedback option gives you information on the buyers and sellers' reliability and satisfaction according to their opposite (buyer ---> seller and vice versa). Furthermore, because Feedback is dictated by the opposite it (theoretically) cannot be directly manipulated to deceive potential buyers and sellers.

Transparency does not necessarily mean "full information disclosure". That would fall under radical transparency.

On July 22 2011 23:35 Joseon wrote:

this is a well thought out post. But you have got to stop thinking so linearly about how business and moral conduct should be enacted. I agree that in principle in a perfect world, teams should negotiate directly with other teams about aquiring players. That is how most professional sports works. But that isn't how Starcraft 2 or really business works. Business is always about shady dealing, and underhanded tactics. As they say, All is fair in Love and War. Business is just a manifestation or extension of warfare.

On July 23 2011 02:37 PHC wrote:


Very good post. Nobody wants KeSPA2.

On July 23 2011 01:53 Morrisson wrote:
Huge lol: If in the end, Puma decides to NOT joinf EG :D

On July 23 2011 02:38 Torte de Lini wrote:


Yes. Maybe TSL would have bested the offer.

On July 23 2011 02:38 Torte de Lini wrote:


Yes. Maybe TSL would have bested the offer.

"It's really disturbing. It feels like the player I raised was just stolen away from me.", adding that "There needs to be a system to stop foreign teams from stealing Korean players like this"

On July 23 2011 02:41 shell wrote:


Fans don't pay bills.. and is it so good to be famous? is it good that you can't go out with your friends without a mob running after you? that you can't take you girl to a movie? or go to a normal restaurant and have a well deserved meal without stalkers harrassing you while you eat?

Money is the only thing worth about being famous.. if you take money out of the equation i can't see why anybody would want to be famous? altho there are people that only live for it..

But heck in the states everybody wants his 5 seconds of fame..

PUMA didn't have a contract so there was no need to talk to coach.. heck if it was a euro team you would talk to the president/CEO/manager but in korea you talk to the coach.. lol

EG did the right thing and coach is just upset because he lost another player even tho he did the same to oGs and FD/tester did the same a few weeks ago..

Coach pay your guys or don't get pissed when they leave to get some money.. Do you guys work for free? i for sure don't..

On July 23 2011 02:54 On_Slaught wrote:
So, STILL nothing from EG about the finalization of Puma joining or not, and when? Or is the OP just not fully updated.

On July 23 2011 02:54 On_Slaught wrote:
So, STILL nothing from EG about the finalization of Puma joining or not, and when? Or is the OP just not fully updated.

On July 23 2011 03:13 Baeras wrote:
I understand why hes pissed he created puma well what he is today not to say the kid wouldn't have done great things anyways but its the time and care he puts into all of his players he still should contract them no problems plus you're guaranteed transfer fees and clauses you'll never end up screwed