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On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
my god he just translated a post from PlayXP. how is that bias?
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On July 23 2011 03:47 LucyApple wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:16 Jetsfan wrote:On July 23 2011 03:13 Baeras wrote:
I understand why hes pissed he created puma well what he is today not to say the kid wouldn't have done great things anyways but its the time and care he puts into all of his players he still should contract them no problems plus you're guaranteed transfer fees and clauses you'll never end up screwed He did not create Puma, Puma created Pume. He was a pro-gamer long before TSL was around. All they did was provide him with room and board. And in return for that he played for Mr. Lee under TSL's name I think the logic of "employer-employee" doesn't apply to the TSL team. Apparently, Coach Lee decided to run the team more like a charity(family) sort of thing rather than a business company so there is a strong bond between the coach and every players. The relationship between the coach and player is sort of like father and son sort of thing. As for the money on why don't they pay every players, Starcraft 2 is Korea is currently in a bit of a struggle right now (with Brood War still going on). Some teams are struggling financially right now with no big sponsor. Coach Lee probably was upset because he's been the one who done all the hard work (scouting players, accommodating, etc).
But it's not a realistic business model to train players if you don't have the money to pay them once they start becoming successful and attractive on the market. Sure they might be waiting for SC2 to become more popular in SK, but they took a gamble and they lost. Things like that happens all the time and often with far greater consequences.
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On July 23 2011 04:07 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
my god he just translated a post from PlayXP. how is that bias?
Read again. Then read his tweets before being stupid again.
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Agree with Seigo and Grimsong above.
I really really do not understand all the hate for EG. There was a simple miscommunication that took place EG made a mistake and will not make the same one again. So many kids here on TL talking about the topic without thinking straight. Teams acquiring players from different countries is the future of Esports would all of you EG haters want everything to be in korea? All the good players stay there and nowhere else? There is absolutely no point in bashing EG for providing a player like Puma a better financial opportunity they made a mistake in the way they approached the acquisition from a korean stand point they will rectify this mistake going forward. Lets just leave it at that you haters.
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This kind of thing happens all the time... I am not to sure what the big ruckus is. Yes it sucks for TSL and I am sure the coach is upset. But EG does not *have* to talk to that coach especially if there is no contract.
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On July 23 2011 04:07 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
my god he just translated a post from PlayXP. how is that bias?
TBH, I think this is EXACTLY what Alex wanted to happen after Onemoregame's interviews. He wanted Milkis to become confused with a biased TSL affiliate. That's what the "journalism" spew came from. It seems Alex succeeded. I WANT to be on EG's side on this thing. As much as I think this is exaggerated on all accounts, I did not like the way Alex came off in his interview. He painted Milkies as if he was living in the TSL house or something. Milkies converted one language to another in a post. Then he went to another site (twitter) to post his opinions on the matter.
wtf.
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On July 23 2011 04:10 Dariusz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:07 TOCHMY wrote:On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
my god he just translated a post from PlayXP. how is that bias? Read again. Then read his tweets before being stupid again.
He tweeted EG asking for a statement. what TSL said was the only facts he had as far as i know. still. how is it bias?
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On July 23 2011 04:10 jacobmarlow wrote:
Agree with Seigo and Grimsong above.
I really really do not understand all the hate for EG. There was a simple miscommunication that took place EG made a mistake and will not make the same one again. So many kids here on TL talking about the topic without thinking straight. Teams acquiring players from different countries is the future of Esports would all of you EG haters want everything to be in korea? All the good players stay there and nowhere else? There is absolutely no point in bashing EG for providing a player like Puma a better financial opportunity they made a mistake in the way they approached the acquisition from a korean stand point they will rectify this mistake going forward. Lets just leave it at that you haters.
No one cares that EG got Puma. People care, however, about the manner in which EG got Puma.
Notably, the Koreans care about the way EG got Puma, and ironically enough, this attempt by EG to bring more Korean talent into the foreigner scene may just backfire if Korea suddenly decides to turtle on us. That would be bad for everyone involved, and I really hope it doesn't go that far.
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No ones talking about the translation. Milkis interactions throughout the whole thing ie: his posts in the thread and his tweets made me think he was a TSL affiliate or someone personally involved rather than someone relaying a message.
I'm not complaining that Milkis is biased, I'm just saying that I can see merit in the argument and that I understand why it was brought up.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
The article he translated is from PlayXP. If it sounded biased, then that's down to the original author not Milkis. As for his tweets, they're a means to express his own opinions. That's the whole point of twitter is it not? Do you really think Milkis was trying to pass his tweets off as god-given truth?
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On July 23 2011 04:11 Noxie wrote:
This kind of thing happens all the time... I am not to sure what the big ruckus is. Yes it sucks for TSL and I am sure the coach is upset. But EG does not *have* to talk to that coach especially if there is no contract.
yes, they do not "have" to, but it's disrespectful to the Korean community and culture. (to not talk to the coach before)
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On July 23 2011 04:15 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:10 jacobmarlow wrote:
Agree with Seigo and Grimsong above.
I really really do not understand all the hate for EG. There was a simple miscommunication that took place EG made a mistake and will not make the same one again. So many kids here on TL talking about the topic without thinking straight. Teams acquiring players from different countries is the future of Esports would all of you EG haters want everything to be in korea? All the good players stay there and nowhere else? There is absolutely no point in bashing EG for providing a player like Puma a better financial opportunity they made a mistake in the way they approached the acquisition from a korean stand point they will rectify this mistake going forward. Lets just leave it at that you haters. No one cares that EG got Puma. People care, however, about the manner in which EG got Puma. Notably, the Koreans care about the way EG got Puma, and ironically enough, this attempt by EG to bring more Korean talent into the foreigner scene may just backfire if Korea suddenly decides to turtle on us. That would be bad for everyone involved, and I really hope it doesn't go that far.
Again, if Korea turtles, they lose in the end while the E-Sport of SC2 grows everywhere else in the world. Everyone's acting like the rest of the world has no leverage here in this situation and Korea has it right or wants nothing to do with it. It's time to bust down the door. On Korea and E-sports.
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On July 23 2011 04:10 Dariusz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:07 TOCHMY wrote:On July 23 2011 04:06 SeigO wrote:
Regarding Milkis being biased~
I'm not very aware of who Milkis is/his past works. But in this entire situation I thought Milkis was affiliated with TSL at first. His tweets and posts felt very accusatory like he was taking everything that TSL said as a fact while trying to vilify EG.
my god he just translated a post from PlayXP. how is that bias? Read again. Then read his tweets before being stupid again.
I already lectured on this several times.
-_-
It's invalid. I'm not going to repeat myself.
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On July 23 2011 04:15 SeigO wrote:
No ones talking about the translation. Milkis interactions throughout the whole thing ie: his posts in the thread and his tweets made me think he was a TSL affiliate or someone personally involved rather than someone relaying a message.
Why does someone who gives HIMSELF the responsibility of translating a language from Korean to English have to be mum on the topic he translated?
Who gave him this title of journalist besides Alex?
Why can't Milkies interact with a word to word translation he had the skill to translate?
Why can't Milkies interact and take a side?
Milkies isn't nothing more than a translator. He works for no one. He holds responsibility to NO ONE BUT HIMSELF.
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No one cares that EG got Puma. People care, however, about the manner in which EG got Puma.
Notably, the Koreans care about the way EG got Puma, and ironically enough, this attempt by EG to bring more Korean talent into the foreigner scene may just backfire if Korea suddenly decides to turtle on us. That would be bad for everyone involved, and I really hope it doesn't go that far.
Again, if Korea turtles, they lose in the end while the E-Sport of SC2 grows everywhere else in the world. Everyone's acting like the rest of the world has no leverage here in this situation and Korea has it right or wants nothing to do with it. It's time to bust down the door. On Korea and E-sports.
Well Milkis stated on WoC that the Koreans really aren't upset with the rest of the foreign teams bcuz of this. There more just upset at EG.Plus they have more of a culture were they don't judge other's just bcuz of ones actions.
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Why all the hate for EG when it is just as much Puma's fault? If he didn't go to the coach before revealing that he was going to go work for EG then that's much worse than EG not contacting the coach. EG have no obligations whatsoever to TSL, moral or otherwise whereas Puma, who has benefited from living in the TSL house for the past however long, should have had the decency to tell his coach straight away.
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I don't understand how this thread got 342 pages, there can't be that many legitimate points to argue about that either haven't been argued before, or are just not important. Some people on TL really think that it's their place to make some kind of argument that benefits no one and is filled with conclusions that don't even make sense or are relevant.
And I'm pretty certain arguing whose fault it was or whether someone lacked respect will change absolutely nothing, what's done is done.
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On July 23 2011 04:22 cactuschewer wrote:
I don't understand how this thread got 342 pages, there can't be that many legitimate points to argue about that either haven't been argued before, or are just not important. Some people on TL really think that it's their place to make some kind of argument that benefits no one and is filled with conclusions that don't even make sense or are relevant.
And I'm pretty certain arguing whose fault it was or whether someone lacked respect will change absolutely nothing, what's done is done.
To be frank, I'd take a rather large bet that at least 50 of the pages are filled with posts like this complaining about the argument circling or the topic in general. You just contributed to that page count.
Important edit: HOWEVER, I agree with you. <3
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On July 23 2011 04:19 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:15 SeigO wrote:
No ones talking about the translation. Milkis interactions throughout the whole thing ie: his posts in the thread and his tweets made me think he was a TSL affiliate or someone personally involved rather than someone relaying a message.
Why does someone who gives HIMSELF the responsibility of translating a language from Korean to English have to be mum on the topic he translated? Who gave him this title of journalist besides Alex? Why can't Milkies interact with a word to word translation he had the skill to translate? Why can't Milkies interact and take a side? Milkies isn't nothing more than a translator. He works for no one. He holds responsibility to NO ONE BUT HIMSELF.
The problem is that there is a duality here for Milkis. I agree, he is just a translator- but by tweeting provactively, he is taking a side and defending an interest; his own interest, but one that happens to side with one of the two parties in his neutrally translated article.
So what happened as a result of his tweets is that by proxy, his article feels charged. The problem is that Milkis cannot represent simultaneously himself and a neutral party, and that is what may be getting people up in arms. If he wants to remain neutral, he must carefully word his statements. Otherwise, people will see bias in everything he writes- its just perception.
So yes, in a perfect world Milkis should be able to report neutrally and tweet his opinons, but in this one, having these opinons based off his own worldview distorts in some minds the credibillity of reporting.
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EPT
