EPTPuma leaves TSL for EG - Page 186
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Namu
United States826 Posts
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GMonster
686 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:01 Walls wrote: No but as this will happen more and more often, my point could be true. Koreans have a history of being on their own and still being the best. Yeah letting the foreigners win tournaments in their own country will just DESTROY Esports... man does anyone think their post through anymore. Right now any Korea team can send out a player and the only way hes not winning that tournament is if another Korean goes, or HuK. Foreigner teams trying to strengthen their team is a good thing, if the Korean Teams get all of the money from NASL/IPL/MLG's then the foreigner scene could die out. Now this is small theory crafting but if the economy has taught us anything its that giving other countries money can be bad lol. | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bPr8i.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YTNVP.jpg) I suck at PS.... so what ? I can't realize what TSL will do now that they lost Puma tbh :/, they got killer and... well killer, hes like there only Code S level player atm i think and hes not that good, with FD TS and Puma gone they got from Nr 1/2 team in korea to Code A level team. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:11 BZZ wrote: The point concerning Korean teams being worried to send players to NA/EU events is the most concerning part for me. If teams are worried that sending players to events will lead to "secret" offers to steal their players this will lead to an adversarial stance that is not good for competition. This also has to do with the economics of sponsorship. Big NA/EU teams are getting large sponsors allowing for better player salaries. Korean teams are reliant on smaller local Korean companies for SC2 due to the continued strength of SCBW in terms of taking larger sponsors. Right now, there may be a large exodus of Korean players to foreign teams as they will offer better salaries and financial rewards for performance; see FXOpen & fOu, SK & MC/NADA. I agree..very concerning, and I think this is where EG could have handled the transaction better than they did. I don't disagree with what happen. If i'm a team and I'm in the business of aquiring great players, then I'm in the business of looking for someone like Puma, but I do they could have handled it better. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Many times teams aproach players or get his agent to talk to him! Players sometimes force their way out of contracts by: a) telling they wont perform b) not participating in practice sessions c) comming out in public saying they want to leave or have a bad relation with the coach etc.. In this case it seems like he doesn't have a contract and a salary.. YES IT'S NORMAL! YES IT HAPPENS! and no one should be angry at EG! | ||
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TATTOO
Canada33 Posts
Sucks for TSL who had to learn their lesson the hard way... Good for EG (dont blame them for making a smart decision). Yes puma owes TSL alot, but as well puma has done some for TSL... but all in all dont get mad at someone for THEIR career decisions. Just be happy he makes more money which is what really matters because after all this is his job. Anyone arguing that this is ruining esports or the foerign and korean scene's relationship needs to stop being so idealistic and face the facts that it all comes down to money. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
TL and Korea are exactly the people they should care the most, because these are their ideal customers, no one else would buy their shit because they support a sc2 player who they saw playing once and can't remember the name of. Very true. TL is the largest SC2 community and it's readily available for product exposure. Win over TL, and you're pretty good to go XD | ||
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Fiend13
Germany140 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:01 Walls wrote: No but as this will happen more and more often, my point could be true. Koreans have a history of being on their own and still being the best. While this may have been true in the past it certainly is no concept that will work for the future. Globalisation impacts any form of business nowadays (yes Starcraft has become a form of business) and isolation won't get you as far as it used too. I am under the impression (and i may be wrong here) that the view of a majority of the korean Starcraft scene on the rest of the community is still one pointing downwards although we are on par for quite some time now (regarding the publicity and business level, not the player skill). I agree on the opinion that this could have been solved less controversial, but it was done completely within the terms of international business rules. TSL basically demands a special treatment (one according to the customs of Korea). It is like me emmigrating the USA and then demanding german civil rights. International law operates on anglosaxen principles which basically states that the only form of certainty is an airtight contract. Every other regulation will be ignored when in doubt. | ||
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Leafren
Belgium66 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:01 fuzzytoad wrote: Sorry to inform you that in sports, it is usually the player who is contacted by the team first. In sports I know something about this is not allowed. Again, I'm sure it happens all the time. But just because some actions exist and/or aren't regulated doesn't mean I should just regard them as normal. What I'm trying to get across is that I think TSL rightfully feels wronged as they invested a lot in their player (by their standards) and that moves like this could hurt the scene if they happen a lot. Nothing prevent me from approaching a team EG player with a million billion dollar contract mid-season (preferably just before the finals of a big tournament) and not proceed with it in the end. This will affect the performance of (some) players in whom a lot of time and efforted was invested by their teams. Although allowed, and I understand the position of people who see nothing wrong with it (it's a ratrace eh!), I however just don't think that is a chique move. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
Its all good and well they asked him but where i got the problem here is they did when he was on "unknown territory" representing his team. If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. If they did while he was in korea and they send a representative or you know, just mail/phone i can understand it. Otherwise it feels more like "catch him when his team isn't here" | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:12 lunchforthesky wrote: American sports have weird/retarded rules but in free market sports unless the player is out of contract (which Puma wasn't) you approach the club or the league will fine you or dock points. There's many examples of this. You don't know this. Edit: On July 22 2011 02:18 Assirra wrote: Ok ppl need to stop comparing this to the whole employee/employer thing or at least compare it fair. Its all good and well they asked him but where i got the problem here is they did when he was on "unknown territory" representing his team. If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. If they did while he was in korea and they send a representative or you know, just mail/phone i can understand it. Otherwise it feels more like "catch him when his team isn't here" This is entirely normal... in fact that's probably one of the most likely ways to get picked up by a new employer. And if you want to be fair, #4 should actually be: 4. You speak with your boss and say you'd like move away and change jobs. Because that's what Coach Lee himself said. Which is even more reasonable than your scenario. | ||
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jupidar
United States229 Posts
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:18 Assirra wrote: Ok ppl need to stop comparing this to the whole employee/employer thing or at least compare it fair. Its all good and well they asked him but where i got the problem here is they did when he was on "unknown territory" representing his team. If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. If they did while he was in korea and they send a representative or you know, just mail/phone i can understand it. Otherwise it feels more like "catch him when his team isn't here" Sounds completely normal in today's business world. What world do you live in? | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:18 Assirra wrote: Ok ppl need to stop comparing this to the whole employee/employer thing or at least compare it fair. Its all good and well they asked him but where i got the problem here is they did when he was on "unknown territory" representing his team. If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. If they did while he was in korea and they send a representative or you know, just mail/phone i can understand it. Otherwise it feels more like "catch him when his team isn't here" Pretty standard, what's the issue? People take up job offers all the time, whatever the circumstances. | ||
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:16 Aterons_toss wrote: I suck at PS.... so what ? I can't realize what TSL will do now that they lost Puma tbh :/, they got killer and... well killer, hes like there only Code S level player atm i think and hes not that good, with FD TS and Puma gone they got from Nr 1/2 team in korea to Code A level team. LOL nice ps :p | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:16 shell wrote: In europe this is common bussiness in the football scene! Many times teams aproach players or get his agent to talk to him! Players sometimes force their way out of contracts by: a) telling they wont perform b) not participating in practice sessions c) comming out in public saying they want to leave or have a bad relation with the coach etc.. So a transfer fee is paid. If EG payed a fee for Puma this would be all good. TSL gets return on their investment, EG gets a great player. As far as i can see now, TSL gets nothing, that's not good. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:16 p1cKLes wrote: I agree..very concerning, and I think this is where EG could have handled the transaction better than they did. I don't disagree with what happen. If i'm a team and I'm in the business of aquiring great players, then I'm in the business of looking for someone like Puma, but I do they could have handled it better. (1) If Korean teams refuse to pay for their players to go to foreign events, won't Korean players just be more likely to switch to a non-Korean team (that will pay for their travel)? (2) Foreign teams can contact Korean players anywhere; the Koreans don't need to go to a LAN event to get an offer. I very much doubt that Korean pro-teams will ignore these two factors (not to mention all the other good reasons to send their players overseas, like prize money) and decide to stop sending their pros to non-Korean tourneys because of a perceived threat of competition from foreign teams. I think if anything, the outcome here will be more sophisticated contracts between players and teams; hopefully the players will realize that they have the bargaining power to make teams pay them extra to include any contractual provision that would hinder their switching to another team. All this said, there's still so much we don't know about this incident that is relevant to making some prediction about its effect on player-team relations in Korea or assessing whether TSL has any right to slam PuMa or EG. Mainly, I'm interested in whether PuMa breached any contract he may have had with TSL. (Because TSL didn't mention it, for now I'm assuming not.) On July 22 2011 02:18 Assirra wrote: If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. I don't want to make too much light of your post, but this is exactly how switching jobs usually works, at least in the U.S.  | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:10 MDMA_ wrote: again not true, if a player is not under contract you never approach the team. hes a free agent why do you need to apporach the team, there IS NO TEAM. if youre approaching a team this means that the player you are targetting IS under contract. however there is no governing body that handles these kinds of interactions between teams and players in sc2 so it really doesnt matter HOW eg handled it, this is what puma wanted. If he was under some kinda strict contract TSL could easily place legal action against EG. sounds more like puma's contract was an RFA type. You never have to approach a team if youre signing another player... Again he's morally contracted, and since it's the way they do it over there, EG should be aware of that and approach the proper way, not skipping it in the name of convenience. People can say whatever they want about legality, but in the end of the day, what's right is right, what's wrong is wrong, and EG handled it wrong. | ||
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Kazragore
United States369 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:18 Assirra wrote: Ok ppl need to stop comparing this to the whole employee/employer thing or at least compare it fair. Its all good and well they asked him but where i got the problem here is they did when he was on "unknown territory" representing his team. If you want to compare it to a job its more like 1. Your boss asks you to go work on a project from another company. 2. You do your work there and another company see you do your work extremely well. 3. You get offered a new job and accept. 4. You call your boss and say you move away and change jobs. If they did while he was in korea and they send a representative or you know, just mail/phone i can understand it. Otherwise it feels more like "catch him when his team isn't here" While I do feel like it was at least partly TSL's fault for losing Puma, I definitely understand this sentiment and I do feel (the smallest bit) bad for TSL | ||
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ShampooSuicide
United States58 Posts
They are losing players for whatever reason. Management isn't doing something right to lose 4 players in a short span of time or possibly shouldn't even of signed them if they weren't going to get along. If a player leaves a team they are most likely feeling under payed/under appreciated at said team. Puma most likely felt these or that TSL wasn't the right environment for him. Also a some people seem concerned about Puma's ability to practice. He might not have as dedicated teams but there are other ways to practice, a lot of top korean players are friends with each other. MC was saying he knew Puma for 8 years? The two are friends, I don't think he would stop practicing with him suddenly. There are inter team practice all the time. Might not be as good as official team but would be good enough until his situation would be stabilized. | ||
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