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On July 21 2011 19:06 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:59 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:56 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:52 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:49 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:41 Namu wrote:
[quote]
a few people? playxp = sc2 community in korea. LOADS of negative posts on playxp.
koreasilver = one guy on TL.
it's fact that the view on foreigners/teams have been impacted negatively already.
where the hell did i "generalize?"
The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then.. No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point as pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective. pure bullshit? so i'm saying that it will have a negative impact because people are negatively talking about foreign teams already, and EG more specifically. then you dismiss me because you don't give a fuck about what people say on the internet. what, am I supposed to bring you a printed newspaper with an article about it? guess what, starcraft 2 and e-sports in general is quite closely related to the "internet," and a lot of the things said on the internet actually do relate heavily to what people actually perceive of something relating to starcraft 2. You're not supposed to bring anything because you can't prove this one way or another. One thread of angry netizen does in no way show anything, beyond that there is a portion of that website that is angry. That's it, nothing more nothing less. It doesn't say what the majority of Koreans think, it doesn't say what the people that actually matter think and it absolutely doesn't say what the people who thought the thread was dumb and didn't post in it think. Is this so hard to understand? If you're trying to say that if a few people are angry foreigner/Korean relations or damaged (fuck does this even mean), then sure, a few people are angry. But don't try to make it out like that means anything more than that. it's quite obvious you haven't looked at the responses, but trust me it wasn't one thread. please at least take a look at what i'm talking about before discussing its significance.. No way, multiple threads? The significance has grown dramatically! You understand that this is one player on one team coming to a foreign team, nothing more...nothing less. The controversy is peaking tonight, will die down tomorrow and then fade out of existence.
yeah, and just because it'll fade out in a couple of weeks, it'll definitely not affect the perspective of anyone! this is quite pointless right now, my interpretation and yours are quite different, and i'm fairly certain i can interpret the korean fans much better seeing as i'm one of them...
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why is everyone so pissed at EG whie it's just as easy for puma to tell TSL that EG has made an offer for him. telling TSL this would probably be a good mvoe if puma wanted to stay in TSL(competition, higher wage etc etc). it seems that he didn;t want to stay either way.
in the end, what's better for your team spirit? telling the coach: 'hey coach, EG made an offer for me and I'm going to take it, I'll be leaving in 3 weeks, cya!'
or this: 'hey coach, EG has made me an offer 3 weeks ago and I took it, I'm going now, cya!'
so it;s either telling someone that you're leaving right away, or telling them and having your team spirit crushed for the emaining days that puma is still in their house.
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How can this ever be a bad thing? I think alot of people here should stick to playing/spectating instead of making naive judgements over whether or not this move is ethical. If there was no formal contract binding Puma to his former team then its their fault for not creating any contigencies to protect their assets. Finally e-Sports is starting to some what resemble tradtional professional sports leagues with player transfers (and subsequently placing financial "value" on players based on ability etc). Maybe this will prompt the formulation of some sort of official regulatory body to handle future transfers.
Frankly, if the Koreans arent happy then its their problem for not keeping their players. Obviously the incentive presented to Puma was too good to refuse. If anything, it seems that they're a bit threatened by the fact that they could start to lose players to foreign teams who offer better contracts/packages to players (meaning they would have to up their investment o retain such players). As long as these investments dont outweigh the interest generated by the game then it cant be a bad thing.
Personally, I am sick of seeing Korea as the sole capital for SC (no pun intended) and Im glad that the lines have begun to blur. I hope more Koreans are bold enough to venture abroad and I am sure "foreign" fans may even support them more than Korean fans.
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On July 21 2011 19:08 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 19:04 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 19:02 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:59 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:56 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:52 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:49 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:
[quote]
they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you
But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then.. No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point as pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective. pure bullshit? so i'm saying that it will have a negative impact because people are negatively talking about foreign teams already, and EG more specifically. then you dismiss me because you don't give a fuck about what people say on the internet. what, am I supposed to bring you a printed newspaper with an article about it? guess what, starcraft 2 and e-sports in general is quite closely related to the "internet," and a lot of the things said on the internet actually do relate heavily to what people actually perceive of something relating to starcraft 2. You're not supposed to bring anything because you can't prove this one way or another. One thread of angry netizen does in no way show anything, beyond that there is a portion of that website that is angry. That's it, nothing more nothing less. It doesn't say what the majority of Koreans think, it doesn't say what the people that actually matter think and it absolutely doesn't say what the people who thought the thread was dumb and didn't post in it think. Is this so hard to understand? If you're trying to say that if a few people are angry foreigner/Korean relations or damaged (fuck does this even mean), then sure, a few people are angry. But don't try to make it out like that means anything more than that. it's quite obvious you haven't looked at the responses, but trust me it wasn't one thread. please at least take a look at what i'm talking about before discussing its significance.. Oh for fuck sake, how can you miss the point so many times? You write one sentence that doesn't say anything because you really don't have anything to say, that's becoming quite clear at least. we'll end this discussion because... well your condescension is not appreciated one bit I'm sorry but if a concepts so simple as "What you read online doesn't represent majority opinions" and "Drama comes and dies down just as fast" can't get into your head it's hard to pretend you have any clue whatsoever. You say a few sentences without fuck all content, end it with ".." and tada; you think you've said anything at all.
well i dont know about here, but in korea, things that get said (especially covering pages of posts) on major community websites tend to represent the majority of opinions. i do realize drama comes and dies down fast, but does that mean it won't affect the opinions and perspectives of many people? no.
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This shit happens all the time in any sport, just open any euro/world football website and you will see!
If there is a interest from a player and from another organization the team that holds the player can always cover the offer the other team gave him!
Just watch the SK aproach.. the players didn't want to leave the oGs house because of practice and other reasons but puma gave up on the TSL house.. why?
Maybe because puma didn't have any salary/contract and any support!
We don't know what happened and how that happened!
And it makes me mad and sad for some guys are allready planning on shun the team and avoid their sponsors!! WHAT?
EG DID WHAT SO MANY GUYS CRITIZED SK FOR! THEY GOT A REAL KOREAN IN THEIR TEAM AND ONLY THEIR TEAM! and now people are gonna avoid their sponsors and shit on EG??
sometimes i don't get this community and the stupid drama that follows it...
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On July 21 2011 19:09 GuardianEU wrote:
why is everyone so pissed at EG whie it's just as easy for puma to tell TSL that EG has made an offer for him. telling TSL this would probably be a good mvoe if puma wanted to stay in TSL(competition, higher wage etc etc). it seems that he didn;t want to stay either way.
in the end, what's better for your team spirit? telling the coach: 'hey coach, EG made an offer for me and I'm going to take it, I'll be leaving in 3 weeks, cya!'
or this: 'hey coach, EG has made me an offer 3 weeks ago and I took it, I'm going now, cya!'
Or you could do it the nicest way where EG contacts TSL and tells them they have interest in buying Puma, Puma says he wants to, Coach Lee says "Well chucks, I guess you may. Best of luck brohan!" and then everyone would be happy and nothing would be as shady as it is at the moment.
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On July 21 2011 19:08 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 19:06 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:59 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:56 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:52 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:49 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:43 vyyye wrote:
[quote]
The hell are you talking about, do people never learn? There is always a local minority, then there is a majority that doesn't give a shit. How on Earth is this going to impact foreigners negatively? Do you think Koreans are thick to the point where they think EG = World (presuming they think this is bad business practice at all). they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then.. No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point as pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective. pure bullshit? so i'm saying that it will have a negative impact because people are negatively talking about foreign teams already, and EG more specifically. then you dismiss me because you don't give a fuck about what people say on the internet. what, am I supposed to bring you a printed newspaper with an article about it? guess what, starcraft 2 and e-sports in general is quite closely related to the "internet," and a lot of the things said on the internet actually do relate heavily to what people actually perceive of something relating to starcraft 2. You're not supposed to bring anything because you can't prove this one way or another. One thread of angry netizen does in no way show anything, beyond that there is a portion of that website that is angry. That's it, nothing more nothing less. It doesn't say what the majority of Koreans think, it doesn't say what the people that actually matter think and it absolutely doesn't say what the people who thought the thread was dumb and didn't post in it think. Is this so hard to understand? If you're trying to say that if a few people are angry foreigner/Korean relations or damaged (fuck does this even mean), then sure, a few people are angry. But don't try to make it out like that means anything more than that. it's quite obvious you haven't looked at the responses, but trust me it wasn't one thread. please at least take a look at what i'm talking about before discussing its significance.. No way, multiple threads? The significance has grown dramatically! You understand that this is one player on one team coming to a foreign team, nothing more...nothing less. The controversy is peaking tonight, will die down tomorrow and then fade out of existence. yeah, and just because it'll fade out in a couple of weeks, it'll definitely not affect the perspective of anyone! this is quite pointless right now, my interpretation and yours are quite different, and i'm fairly certain i can interpret the korean fans much better seeing as i'm one of them...
Pointless. If you lower the conversation to that level then I might as well just say, "hey, I'm a Korean too, and seeing that I'm a Korean I think I get it more than you".
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On July 21 2011 18:11 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:01 jarrydesque wrote:
You have to laugh at all the tough guys putting on their grim faces and dropping the "it's business" like it's a 10 ton argument stopper. By saying things like that, you're actually showing that you have no idea what business is about. Any big corporation would want to be seen as ethical and reputable. Going around shafting people earns you a bad reputation which is bad for business. This is common sense.
I don't study law, but it is my understanding that an oral contract is no less binding than a written contract (as recognized by the law) with the only exception being through the Statute of Fraud - essentially denying that there was an agreement altogether. In my opinion, if you receive a salary from someone, there must be some sort of understanding, contract or no.
Aaaanyway, none of that really matters now, because it is done. There is nothing more to comment on until EG makes a statement.
I'm going to go ahead and quote myself. "Puma lived in the same house with ten other guys, slept on a bunk bed like a ten year old boy, and probably made as much as a cashier at McDonald's." I think a lot of people romanticize the life of a professional gaming. In the grand scheme of things, most of these players make shit money and are expected to sacrifice 50 to 60 hours a week to their team. Sure, you might think EG behaved "unethically". But what did they really do, ultimately? They offered a guy with a 'glamourous' but not very lucrative job, a better job with more security. The question I have is why TSL didn't try to match the offer.
I think you kind of missed the point of my post. If you read carefully, you'll see that I was just pointing out that people think that by saying things like "it's business" means that it no longer needs to be ethical.
I don't for a moment think that Puma does not deserve lots of money and recognition, as I see him as a superb and talented player and hope that any move he makes is beneficial to him!
On July 21 2011 18:26 Rarak wrote:
Lol you are way overanalysing that. Sure there might be an implied contract for some purposes, but not one in which the player cant leave.
I don't think so. I don't think that any of what I said would be pursued in terms of law, but as something to draw a comparison from I think its quite apt. It basically just points out that if this is protected by law it means by extension that a transgression is ethically questionable, regardless of whether its enforced or not.
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People are talking of acquiring Puma as if it's an acquirement of some exotic bird of some sort. Which it is.
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You know what, the "rules" are there to increase manager and team profits and decrease player profits, so I say screw them. After this, Korean teams might actually start treating their players as assets and not as slave workers, and that's only a good thing. Gogo Puma.
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On July 21 2011 19:13 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 19:08 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 19:06 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 18:59 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:56 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:52 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:49 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:48 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:47 vyyye wrote:On July 21 2011 18:45 Namu wrote:
[quote]
they definitely do think this is bad business practice. it is crystal clear if you read korean websites right now. if you don't think a negative impact on the view of a foreign team does not affect the view on foreign teams in general (although the impact will be smaller compared to the former), i don't know what to say to you
But I don't give a fuck about what people on the internet say, they're irrelevant and it will die down. Just like all drama. I know exactly what to say to you, and that is that you should spend more time reading various websites because you'll see this bullshit happen all the time. Drama comes and dies just as fast. If you're solely talking about the netizen relation to foreigners then.. uh, so who gives a fuck? If there's one prick who ends up hating everything non Korean because of this he can have fun with that, in the end he's just one little prick voicing his opinion online. so you're whole point is "who gives a fuck?" well this is pointless then.. No, you got it all wrong. My point is that your initial point as pure bullshit from an ignorant perspective. pure bullshit? so i'm saying that it will have a negative impact because people are negatively talking about foreign teams already, and EG more specifically. then you dismiss me because you don't give a fuck about what people say on the internet. what, am I supposed to bring you a printed newspaper with an article about it? guess what, starcraft 2 and e-sports in general is quite closely related to the "internet," and a lot of the things said on the internet actually do relate heavily to what people actually perceive of something relating to starcraft 2. You're not supposed to bring anything because you can't prove this one way or another. One thread of angry netizen does in no way show anything, beyond that there is a portion of that website that is angry. That's it, nothing more nothing less. It doesn't say what the majority of Koreans think, it doesn't say what the people that actually matter think and it absolutely doesn't say what the people who thought the thread was dumb and didn't post in it think. Is this so hard to understand? If you're trying to say that if a few people are angry foreigner/Korean relations or damaged (fuck does this even mean), then sure, a few people are angry. But don't try to make it out like that means anything more than that. it's quite obvious you haven't looked at the responses, but trust me it wasn't one thread. please at least take a look at what i'm talking about before discussing its significance.. No way, multiple threads? The significance has grown dramatically! You understand that this is one player on one team coming to a foreign team, nothing more...nothing less. The controversy is peaking tonight, will die down tomorrow and then fade out of existence. yeah, and just because it'll fade out in a couple of weeks, it'll definitely not affect the perspective of anyone! this is quite pointless right now, my interpretation and yours are quite different, and i'm fairly certain i can interpret the korean fans much better seeing as i'm one of them... Pointless. If you lower the conversation to that level then I might as well just say, "hey, I'm a Korean too, and seeing that I'm a Korean I think I get it more than you".
what i'm saying is, just because the topic fades away after a couple of weeks, it does not mean there will be no effect. i don't understand how you can deny this having a negative impact on the perspective of foreign teams...
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On July 21 2011 19:11 shell wrote:
And it makes me mad and sad for some guys are allready planning on shun the team and avoid their sponsors!! WHAT?
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I am going out in half an hour, and I will be buying a Monster Rift can. Maybe, just maybe, thanks to those 2Euro, EG will be able to sign some korean protoss 
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this is kinda disgusting... they should have talked to the TSL coach..
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So how many are writing and reading in these korean rage threads? How will their rage affect things outside of the forum? How big is the SC2 fanbase in Korea?
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That's why there was "KESPA" in SC1 I assume. To stop this kind of unprofessional behavior.
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Pretty ugly method by EG, but such a powerful player to a foreign team is actually really fucking cool.
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On July 21 2011 19:19 Rammstorm wrote:
That's why there was "KESPA" in SC1 I assume. To stop this kind of unprofessional behavior.
And to make sure to keep the player demands to minimum while the sponsors decided everything.
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On July 21 2011 19:12 Slakter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 19:09 GuardianEU wrote:
why is everyone so pissed at EG whie it's just as easy for puma to tell TSL that EG has made an offer for him. telling TSL this would probably be a good mvoe if puma wanted to stay in TSL(competition, higher wage etc etc). it seems that he didn;t want to stay either way.
in the end, what's better for your team spirit? telling the coach: 'hey coach, EG made an offer for me and I'm going to take it, I'll be leaving in 3 weeks, cya!'
or this: 'hey coach, EG has made me an offer 3 weeks ago and I took it, I'm going now, cya!' Or you could do it the nicest way where EG contacts TSL and tells them they have interest in buying Puma, Puma says he wants to, Coach Lee says "Well chucks, I guess you may. Best of luck brohan!" and then everyone would be happy and nothing would be as shady as it is at the moment.
Then TSL would be like "you want our player? F that you gotta pay us for that" and EG will go "well, you are barely paying him already, why would we have to pay you?"
If there was a contract and the there was a penalty for breaking the contract, obviously EG paid it. but as it seems right now, there was no contract so nothing unethical about it.
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On July 21 2011 15:06 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:TSL announced today that they will be releasing Puma on their team. The team revealed today that after Puma won NASL, Puma directly received interest from a foreign team, Evil Geniuses. M anager Lee noted that "It is disappointing that we have to make a decision like this, but it's absolutely disgusting that Evil Geniuses would ignore the coaches completely and directly go talk to the player"Meanwhile, EG has been confirmed to have shown interest in recruiting Korean players as they haven't been too successful in recent Starcraft 2 tournaments. http://www.playxp.com/news/read.php?news_id=3209550 EG not respecting the Korean Rules T_T Fuck eg.
The Korean Rules? Please, SC2 is a global game now  You want someone, you get him however you can. Those are the "rules". Probably less professional than talking to the coaches, but maybe they have reasons? Let's wait and see.
Amazing pick up for EG, and didn't TSL recently just lose FD and Tester too? Is TSL just not treating its players well? Is Puma coming to the EG practice house in America?
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EPT
