Just a quick note to inform you all that FXOSheth will not be rejoining his team in Korea for the final 2 matches of GSTL.
After approximately 2 weeks in Korea, Sheth decided it wasn't for him, and after flying back to the US for NASL finals, has decided he would not like to return to Korea.
He will not be appearing in the final matches, and possibly will not be appearing in our new productions.
Well it was exciting to see him participate in S.Korea, but if it isn't for him then there isn't much else to say besides good luck in other endeavors!
That is unfortunate. It seemed like he was one of FXO's stronger players and they could have really used him in the GSTL. It's Sheth's own decision and I can't fault him too much for it but it's kind of disappointing that he didn't tough it out even if it wasn't to his liking.
I'm sure there are very good and solid reasons for him personally as to why he's not returning (commitments in the US, ongoing rent, personal likings, culture etc) but i still can't help feeling a tad annoyed at this decision.
Wow this sucks I really thought he was one of the strongest players on the team if not the strongest and I'm sure he would have developed a lot as a player if he would have stayed. On the other hand If he was not willing to sacrifice so much yet, you can't blame a guy for doing what a guys gotta do.
Unfortunately, being a pro-gamer is korea is not an easy thing and many will not succeed. Although, I did think that Sheth had the skill to succeed but may not possess the mentality.
Can't say I didn't see this coming, if Sheth has had parents that stopped him from going to events etc. Moving out will have been a huge culture shock. Add to that going to Korea it will have been incredibly hard on Sheth. He needs to grow at his own pace and that he realizes this and doesn't want to dive headfirst into something he may not be ready for is incredibly respectable. All the best to Sheth in the US. Especially next MLG!
I wouldn't like to be too far away from home for too long either, especially considering the two cultures are incredibly different. Whatever Sheth decides to do, I'll support him.
Always sad to hear stuff like this Well GL to Sheth, and hope he doesn't distance himself too far from FXO despite him not being with the team in Korea.
I feel like FXO kind of lost their best player in GSTL, or at least one of the best players.
this sucks for fxo, i mean he was one of their (if not the best) players on fxo, hopefully FXO will still have a good showing in the teamleague and get a couple of wins. this means extra spot in code a next season? qualifiers for 14 spots? anybody have any idea when the code a qualifiers are, wolf said they're soon
Very sad to see this, I hoped that seeing how the Koreans dominated in the NASL finals would've motivated him to train his ass off in Korea and step up his game even more. Well, so much for my Fantasy GSTL.
Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
It's hard to live in a 'small' teamhouse with so much people training for 10-12? hours per day. I can imagine it's very stressful and you barely have any privacy. I wouldn't be able to do it too.
On July 11 2011 15:48 mark05 wrote: nooooo sheth you were my favorite player
were? so not anymore because of this? doesn't seem like you are the type of fan someone would want anyway, although i hope its just poor wording on your part!
I hope you understand that alone you can only get to a certain level of skill and to get further you need to be a part of a practise house and train without any diversions.
Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Nice and genuine post from Sheth. I don't blame him at all and being able to just say that he needs to be around family and friends kinda rings true what I've always thought about him from watching his stream. GL to you Sheth and I hope this doesn't hurt his standings with his team (feel like it will regardless but blah :/ ) and you are an excellent player and seem like a cool down to earth dude!
Actions like these usually lead to a player (Sheth) leaving the team and joining a team based in America who can send them to events or other types of things. I forsee sheth leaveing and joining a new team, I would look towards It's Gosu or EG to pick up Sheth. Even though EG has zerg's I would think Sheth would do great in a Team House with Idra and Machine, and I guess LzGamer but he has recently switched to zerg and I do not know if he is going to the Team house.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
:/ Really sad to hear this. It would be really rough to live with so little privacy and autonomy, but it's only for such a little while. Also, wanting to see family is noble and all, but sometimes making sacrifices like that is the right thing to do. I feel like this is a big let down for more than a few people, not least the other FXO guys. FXO's chances for at least making a good showing in GSTL are significantly worse now.
There's no way to blame Sheth if the whole experience isn't for him. I think a lot of us idolize the korean pro house experience beyond what it actually is.
Having said that, I think the saddest part of this is that Sheth had the potential for becoming great. He is a top NA player, of course, but as we've seen in tournament after tournament, being a top NA player is meaningless when measured against the rest of the world. I will mourn the fact that now Sheth may not reach his true potential, but I wish him luck for the future.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
It's not about what you need, is about what it takes and what you must do to get it. It's silly to assume other progamers don't need privacy, relaxed atmosphere, social life and family just as much.
Yeah that post (that you replied to) had a dickish tone to it, but it's not bullshit, and it's not wrong.
Nothing wrong with Sheth's decision btw. If you can't take it, you can't take it, and there's no shame in that and no need to hate him for it.
On July 11 2011 16:00 CameronJ wrote: Well, I can't say I blame him.
I wouldn't like to be too far away from home for too long either, especially considering the two cultures are incredibly different. Whatever Sheth decides to do, I'll support him.
Gogo sheth <3
While Sheth can make his own decisions, I really hope this is not his argument, since it's horrible. Being away for too long might be hard, but 2 weeks? It's nothing. 5 years, sure, that might be hard in the end. But a few months is just a vacation.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
I'm very glad we had the opportunity to see you in the GSL See you at MLG!
I really think that he could have been a foreigner favorite in korea and shown some amazing things... but his life is revolving around my entertainment (sadly xD) so i wish the best for him wherever he goes.
The hard work required to be on top isn't for everyone. Takes a certain person to be able to put in the work and effort and time to do what the pro gamers do. Oh well, good luck to Sheth in the future.
Understandable. Its a huge difference and isn't for everyone. Dude won a code A game just from his normal training so I think Sheth will be fine. He needs to work on his nervousness and if he isn't comfortable in Korea, that won't help it. He will still tear it up. Go Sheth!
On July 11 2011 15:48 mark05 wrote: nooooo sheth you were my favorite player
were? so not anymore because of this? doesn't seem like you are the type of fan someone would want anyway, although i hope its just poor wording on your part!
One of FXO's top guns, sad to see he won't be in korea with FXO. Yet another disappointment for foreign fans, it's too bad it didn't workout best of luck to him.
After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
I am shocked by this. I have been a Sheth fan for awhile now and he was the sole reason why I bought my season ticket to the GSTL so I could see him compete in this setting. Now that he is letting down his team, which he was the captain of, I will no longer be a fan. I have learned through years of sports that you dont abandon your team and you dont quit when things get hard. I appreciate the message you have sent.
Rooting for you no matter where you are homie! I understand, sometimes a man just needs his space and living in the Gom house couldnt have provided much solitary time. Go home, chill out, come back better (and more entertaining), and I'll still be here watching you.
I have seen the pictures of the foreigner house, and it's pretty coarse tbh. For a young man who are new to the whole away from home experience I can totally see it being a bit much.
Shame to see Sheth not returning, but people should certainly respect that he finds that it was not his thing.
I missed Sheth sooo much, so personally this news is gold to me. I hope he get backs to streaming alot, and that he knows he will be no.1 even if he's not in korea. I was really confused when Sheth went to korea, because from what i've heard earlier on stream he has said he wouldnt want to go to korea.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
It was hypothetical advice. He obviously went there to game professionally, which means it would be impossible for him to learn korean in the timeframe he seems to have hoped for. Learning a language takes determination, it's easily a fulltime job if you live in a country and want to speak it as fast as possible.
I'm not saying he should have stopped progaming, I'm saying he has no reason to be disappointed about not being able to learn korean.
Can't say this surprises me, as you were going to have a brutal flight schedule with MLG Anaheim coming up.
And, well, not everyone is built for travel and dorm life. This came up in one of the previous FXO threads, but we tend to forget that Korea to a Korean is a 4h, max, train ride home. For anyone else, it can be a brutally long flight and a culture barrier. Then you have to up your SC2 game at the same time. Not everyone is ready for those huge changes.
So, practice hard, rest up, and kick some ass at MLG dude!
Some of us can pick up the major details to a language pretty quickly. At least enough to order from a menu/get around easily. With a non-Latin script set, it takes longer to read, but if you were listening to "learn Korean on tape" for 8 hours a day while practicing, some of us can pick up things quickly. Your mileage will vary on this type of thing, so it's not outside the possibility that Sheth could have gotten at least a minimally-needed knowledge inside a month.
I really feel like Sheth is letting down his team here. There's a bunch of guys in that house that all decided to go to Korea with their captain and play some really good SC2. Its a lot to ask of qxc to get his old hot streak back and lead the team and keep spirits up, especially when the example is that you can drop out at any time.
I still support Sheth's decision to do Sheth, but his team has got to be like :F
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Most people's job involves working at least 8 hours a day (plus travel time etc...), I don't see why pro gamers should be any different.
Regardless it's Sheth's life, he can do as he wants.
However, the days of winning any major tournaments or even placing well without living the pro gaming house life are severely numbered.
Sheth is cool and all, but he really should just quit the life of programing starcraft. I mean hes not dedicated, he should just play it as a hobby. Some people in NA would kill for the chance and opportunites sheth had...
I totally understand Sheth's decision though. I would not be able to live with 10 guys either. I guess it's easier for younger kids who move directly from their parents place to pro houses. But for older players who are used to living on their own in their own place that kind of transition can be extremely hard.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
I guess not able to watch porn is the last straw. I would say this is just a normal transition shock, and is no different than joining the army. Few just wouldn't make it.
On July 11 2011 16:49 koolaid1990 wrote: Sheth is cool and all, but he really should just quit the life of programing starcraft. I mean hes not dedicated, he should just play it as a hobby. Some people in NA would kill for the chance and opportunites sheth had...
How do you know he's not dedicated? Perhaps communicating outside a small group of people is important to sheth, or perhaps he doesn't want to miss foreign events and he does not handle flying particularly well. You know, the same reasons most pro's do not want to accept the exchange offers.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
Yes you could? I've been there many times myself. Try living in Japan like I did and you'll see what it's actually like to live in a country where no one speaks English properly.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
Like Idra did?
Yes, he's a healthy and well functioning adult. What's the problem?
The area of korea sheth was living in, had minimal english. You had to get by with monitors showing prices, and hand signals.
If you lived in the centre of seoul, you would probably have no problem. But english is by no means common in Korea. At the same time, we have korean speakers on our team, so it wasn't an issue.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
Yes you could? I've been there many times myself. Try living in Japan like I did and you'll see what it's actually like to live in a country where no one speaks English properly.
I spent 3 months in japan for school. You might as well just be on another planet.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
*Points above* Straight from his mouth.
I don't know a lot about Korea, but i bet it would be a lot easier in Malaysia as all Malaysians learn english (reading/writing/speaking) in school - so there is no hand waving/trying to communicate as if you're playing charades.
Not to mention signs/radio/tv/etc are in english, so you could actually LIVE there.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
*Points above* Straight from his mouth.
I don't know a lot about Korea, but i bet it would be a lot easier in Malaysia as all Malaysians learn english (reading/writing/speaking) in school - so there is no hand waving/trying to communicate as if you're playing charades.
On July 11 2011 17:02 FXOpen wrote: The area of korea sheth was living in, had minimal english. You had to get by with monitors showing prices, and hand signals.
If you lived in the centre of seoul, you would probably have no problem. But english is by no means common in Korea. At the same time, we have korean speakers on our team, so it wasn't an issue.
I was under the impression the gomhouse was located in seoul. Personally I've been in many cities around korea and the only one where I wouldn't expect to be able to get by with just English would be Gyeongju since like 80%+ of the population seems to be old people and it's really traditional.
Granted, you can't go into every single restaurant, even in the center of seoul, and expect them to speak English to you. However, being hungry in seoul and finding a restaurant where you'll have no problem ordering food without english? Should take 10 minutes, even in suburbs such as yongin.
I get sometimes what sheth is saying. When I saw him on GSl he looked quite nervous and uneasy. Having to be around people all the time can be a little stressful and sheth looked it whenever we saw him.
Seeing him in NASL it was a different story, we saw a calmer more composed sheth.
I remember spending 6 weeks doing volunteer work. I would be around people all the time. and since I had a roommate I never had time alone. I remember sometimes I would just have to take a break from volunteering during the day for 5-10 mins just to be alone in my room.
So I can see where sheth is coming from. Hope to see sheth in future tournaments. Such a gm guy.
No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
On July 11 2011 17:02 FXOpen wrote: The area of korea sheth was living in, had minimal english. You had to get by with monitors showing prices, and hand signals.
If you lived in the centre of seoul, you would probably have no problem. But english is by no means common in Korea. At the same time, we have korean speakers on our team, so it wasn't an issue.
I was under the impression the gomhouse was located in seoul. Personally I've been in many cities around korea and the only one where I wouldn't expect to be able to get by with just English would be Gyeongju since like 80%+ of the population seems to be old people and it's really traditional.
Granted, you can't go into every single restaurant, even in the center of seoul, and expect them to speak English to you. However, being hungry in seoul and finding a restaurant where you'll have no problem ordering food without english? Should take 10 minutes, even in suburbs such as yongin.
Although, I can agree with you as I have travelled alot to many places. For someone like sheth, that would be difficult.
Its discouraging to run into a road block of non english. But its part of travelling. Learning to communicate with people as a whole etc. I by no means, use no english as an excuse, but if we are using language as a basis of survivability, Korea is not an ideal place for an only english speaker. That being said, once you work things out for yourself there, its a delightful place to be. I had no trouble ordering on my own, without anyone speaking english. Its just as matter of pointing and counting.
But your argument about Japan and what not is void. Koreans in a majority sense, do not speak english.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
*Points above* Straight from his mouth.
I don't know a lot about Korea, but i bet it would be a lot easier in Malaysia as all Malaysians learn english (reading/writing/speaking) in school - so there is no hand waving/trying to communicate as if you're playing charades.
Not to mention signs/radio/tv/etc are in english, so you could actually LIVE there.
You're saying koreans don't study English in school? That's wierd, my fiancé and all her friends learned English in school... some of them are even really fricking good at it. My fiancé is considered pretty bad at English for her age (28) and she could easily live in Sweden on her English. She can't enjoy movies in English, but she can easily get around and make herself understood.
Definitely, older people don't know jack, but the younger generations have all studied english for years.
Wasn't Sheth captain? This is really bad for FXO, to lose one of your best players and captain is pretty demoralizing. Also although Sheth will never admit it, FXO's performance was also a factor. If their record was 2-0, Sheth would have stayed to compete, and this is probably lingering in the back of FXO's mind. I wish them the best and hope they get a win!
On July 11 2011 17:10 W2 wrote: Wasn't Sheth captain? This is really bad for FXO, to lose one of your best players and captain is pretty demoralizing. Also although Sheth will never admit it, FXO's performance was also a factor. If their record was 2-0, Sheth would have stayed to compete, and this is probably lingering in the back of FXO's mind. I wish them the best and hope they get a win!
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
Don't do that dude. You don't know Sheth or anything that actually happened other than the results and what's been disclosed. Something about being in Korea disagreed with Sheth (and I'd think about his code A results) and he decided not to return. We should show him support instead of criticizing him for taking a risk on a big opportunity that didn't work out for him.
This is a little disappointing but understandable I guess. I remember when I had housemates (2 of them) and they drove me insane.. Not a good time to leave though.
On July 11 2011 16:23 RmoteCntrld wrote: If he can't handle Korea I wonder if he'll go to the team house in Malaysia like he said he was going to. Oh well sad news
Malaysia isn't like Korea. Sheth would be able to get by awesomely there cause everyone speaks english in Malaysia (though some do sound like kellymilkies) - so it wouldn't be a "forever alone" feeling.
Not to mention the FXO house is probably like a palace in comparison to the GOM house...
People are actually quite good at English in Korea. You could easily live for a year in korea speaking only english without having any major issues at all.
No you couldnt.
*Points above* Straight from his mouth.
I don't know a lot about Korea, but i bet it would be a lot easier in Malaysia as all Malaysians learn english (reading/writing/speaking) in school - so there is no hand waving/trying to communicate as if you're playing charades.
Not to mention signs/radio/tv/etc are in english, so you could actually LIVE there.
You're saying koreans don't study English in school? That's wierd, my fiancé and all her friends learned English in school... some of them are even really fricking good at it. My fiancé is considered pretty bad at English for her age (28) and she could easily live in Sweden on her English. She can't enjoy movies in English, but she can easily get around and make herself understood.
Definitely, older people don't know jack, but the younger generations have all studied english for years.
I didn't say that at all - please don't misunderstand me. The crux of my point was saying IF the language was an issue for Sheth, he would have an easier time in Malaysia, that's all.
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
Nevermind dropping out in the 2nd round of code A. What makes it more embarrassing was that he was granted a code A slot which a dozen other people would die for (DRG etc.), to drop out after only one season really seems like a waste.
everytime i see sheth on camera, he seems like a bit shy and uncomfortable. better he playes and traines in a setup he is comfortable with so that he can deliver the awesome games that we all love
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
Nevermind dropping out in the 2nd round of code A. What makes it more embarrassing was that he was granted a code A slot which a dozen other people would die for (DRG etc.), to drop out after only one season really seems like a waste.
Because YOU know what's going in on Sheths life. Let the man be, he's a fantastic player and person and if he doesn't want to be in Korea he doesn't have to be.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
It's not about what you need, is about what it takes and what you must do to get it. It's silly to assume other progamers don't need privacy, relaxed atmosphere, social life and family just as much.
Yeah that post (that you replied to) had a dickish tone to it, but it's not bullshit, and it's not wrong.
Nothing wrong with Sheth's decision btw. If you can't take it, you can't take it, and there's no shame in that and no need to hate him for it.
Some people don't have a problem with it at all to live in a house with 10 people. Some actually love it. Others need their solitude a lot more, for example people who are a bit more introverted or those who score high in ADD and autistic spectrums. Sheth being a really mannered person, so maybe when he's in a group all day, 24/7, he's constantly considering other people's needs while neglecting himself? Which you can do for a few days, but not for weeks or months because that eats all your energy. What some of you say is that you have to be able to live with 10 people all day to become the best of the best and that's just silly, especially since gamers are often people who like some solitude.
On July 11 2011 17:02 FXOpen wrote: The area of korea sheth was living in, had minimal english. You had to get by with monitors showing prices, and hand signals.
If you lived in the centre of seoul, you would probably have no problem. But english is by no means common in Korea. At the same time, we have korean speakers on our team, so it wasn't an issue.
I was under the impression the gomhouse was located in seoul. Personally I've been in many cities around korea and the only one where I wouldn't expect to be able to get by with just English would be Gyeongju since like 80%+ of the population seems to be old people and it's really traditional.
Granted, you can't go into every single restaurant, even in the center of seoul, and expect them to speak English to you. However, being hungry in seoul and finding a restaurant where you'll have no problem ordering food without english? Should take 10 minutes, even in suburbs such as yongin.
Although, I can agree with you as I have travelled alot to many places. For someone like sheth, that would be difficult.
Its discouraging to run into a road block of non english. But its part of travelling. Learning to communicate with people as a whole etc. I by no means, use no english as an excuse, but if we are using language as a basis of survivability, Korea is not an ideal place for an only english speaker. That being said, once you work things out for yourself there, its a delightful place to be. I had no trouble ordering on my own, without anyone speaking english. Its just as matter of pointing and counting.
But your argument about Japan and what not is void. Koreans in a majority sense, do not speak english.
When you put it that way, that makes sense. If Seth hasn't been travelling much before and isn't used to getting by in a foreign culture, I can see it being an issue even though a lot of people speak English. Especially since while an experienced traveler knows what to expect and can get the persons who do speak a little English to try their best, someone with less experience might go "darnit, they don't know any English at all, I can't understand this" and move over to gestures and guessing too fast, since it can be quite hard to understand English even from people who know it if their pronunciation is way bad.
And while the majority of koreas population definitely don't know English, I don't think I'm exagerating if I claim at least 40% of the koreans living in Seoul below age 35 know English well enough for you to use basic sentences. You can't ask them how they feel about the political climate in the US, but you can probably ask them for a good place to eat sangyeopsal
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
Nevermind dropping out in the 2nd round of code A. What makes it more embarrassing was that he was granted a code A slot which a dozen other people would die for (DRG etc.), to drop out after only one season really seems like a waste.
Because YOU know what's going in on Sheths life. Let the man be, he's a fantastic player and person and if he doesn't want to be in Korea he doesn't have to be.
I dont claim to know what's going on in Sheth's life. But it is a fact that he was granted a code A slot and that he dropped out after one season. It would be great that he could continue to play in korea and represent foreigners but sometimes things just dont work out and you're left with options that you dont want to choose but have to.
If anything, we can take comfort that this will be of benefit to Sheth as a player and that we can look forward to better games from him in the future, but for now, feel sad that things just didnt work out
This is a gigantic disappointment. Sheth is one of the few foreigners who looks like they could make a serious run for the GSL title, and seemed to be the star of FXO. I understand some people have anxiety about travel and living abroad (to a very small extent; I have done so and it is quite easy when you figure yourself out), but as a pro-gamer in a globalized world you need to be comfortable with those kinds of things.
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
I think he should have given it more time. His life though and good luck with whatever he puts his mind too. Just that these kind of abroad experiences can really grow a progamer.
And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
so, Sheth does what he thinks is the best for him and you call that embarassing? Maybe you shouldn't judge people you don't know personally
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
Well thats fine no one is expecting anyone to pick up the language and operate it perfectly in a really short amount of time.
I mean non english speakers speak really really broken english and we dont really get all uppity over it.
How are Koreans at accepting Konglish, or no wait, Engrean?
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
so, Sheth does what he thinks is the best for him and you call that embarassing? Maybe you shouldn't judge people you don't know personally
That's not the point. I don't really agree with Sickle, but what he saying has nothing to do with knowing Sheth personally. The thing is, when you're in a high position, you have responsibility. Sheth was not only FXOs best player, he was also their team captain. He chose not to go back and his team is OK with it, so IMO it's for the best for everyone and there's no need to flame Sheth at all. However, think of a boss at a company being made cheif of a department in a new country, then going "nope, don't like it" and abandoning the employees. You don't have to know that boss personally to know it's a bad thing.
Im a bit bitter about this, first, i love sheth, and hope he does well, but i dont understand people sign up for an amazing oppotunity like this and then quit. He had to know himself well enough beforehand that this would get rough, and there are sooo many other progamers that would kill for the chance to be in korea.
I have and will follow sheth in the future, i just hate the fact that an oppotunity like this is wasted. take a look at qxc, he has been talking about nothing but korea the last month or so, he was soo exited to go, and there are plenty more like him around. But sheth, i realy do hope you trash some koreans in mlg, we dont want them to steal ALL our money now do we :D:D:D
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
Huh? Sheth gave solid reasons. If you haven't traveled a lot, it can be really rough. From what has been posted about Sheth, he really didn't travel much before SC2, so Korea was a rough shock for him. Not everyone is cut out for just uprooting their lives like that. Even the aussies on FXO have talked about how hard its been for them, so it's not like Sheth is alone in this.
Also, not everyone is an extrovert. Some just need their space and suddenly going from your own apartment to bunking with 10 other people isn't cut out for everyone.
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
Well thats fine no one is expecting anyone to pick up the language and operate it perfectly in a really short amount of time.
I mean non english speakers speak really really broken english and we dont really get all uppity over it.
How are Koreans at accepting Konglish, or no wait, Engrean?
Koreans are like Japanese. They LOVE when you show interest for their language and will call you great at it when you say hello incorrectly. That said, when you get beyond the "omfg that's so cute, he sounds like a baby", it gets pretty tough. Koreans and Japanese are not used to foreigners speaking their language like Americans are with English. They can easily misunderstand or not understand you at all, even if what you're saying is pretty much correct, only with bad pronunciation and some misses in the grammar.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
You're kind of being a jerk using words like "deserts." Going to Korea shouldn't be a prerequisite to getting respect as a foreigner. Perhaps putting in a lot of work in a country not named Korea can make you a great player as well?
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
Well thats fine no one is expecting anyone to pick up the language and operate it perfectly in a really short amount of time.
I mean non english speakers speak really really broken english and we dont really get all uppity over it.
How are Koreans at accepting Konglish, or no wait, Engrean?
Koreans are like Japanese. They LOVE when you show interest for their language and will call you great at it when you say hello incorrectly. That said, when you get beyond the "omfg that's so cute, he sounds like a baby", it gets pretty tough. Koreans and Japanese are not used to foreigners speaking their language like Americans are with English. They can easily misunderstand or not understand you at all, even if what you're saying is pretty much correct, only with bad pronunciation and some misses in the grammar.
What if I am pretty good at not anglicizing spoken words. I can duplicate the sound fairly well. But my overall knowledge of the language is pretty minimal. Can I learn broken Korean? And have it be understood?
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
You're kind of being a jerk using words like "deserts." Going to Korea shouldn't be a prerequisite to getting respect as a foreigner. Perhaps putting in a lot of work in a country not named Korea can make you a great player as well?
You're also misunderstanding sickles argument. He's not saying you have to be in korea and do good to be respected, he's saying it's a waste that Sheth took the opportunity to go there and then leave his team to fight alone. He has good reasons which at least I respect and understand, but that doesn't make it less of a waste.
On July 11 2011 17:45 BumsenDK wrote: Im a bit bitter about this, first, i love sheth, and hope he does well, but i dont understand people sign up for an amazing oppotunity like this and then quit. He had to know himself well enough beforehand that this would get rough, and there are sooo many other progamers that would kill for the chance to be in korea.
I have and will follow sheth in the future, i just hate the fact that an oppotunity like this is wasted. take a look at qxc, he has been talking about nothing but korea the last month or so, he was soo exited to go, and there are plenty more like him around. But sheth, i realy do hope you trash some koreans in mlg, we dont want them to steal ALL our money now do we :D:D:D
Qxc' has wanted to go to Korea for awhile. He talked about it back before he went to Spain. Sheth on the other hand didn't. I remember him in an interview a little while back, before FXOpen announced they were going to Korea, That his team wanted him to go over there but he rather remain in the states. He gave it a try, it wasn't for him. I commend him for giving it a shot, but there is nothing wrong with not staying.
imo he doesn't fit in with FXO at all, he practices with the coL guys a lot and I never thought he belonged with FXO, then again what do I know, just an opinion
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
Well thats fine no one is expecting anyone to pick up the language and operate it perfectly in a really short amount of time.
I mean non english speakers speak really really broken english and we dont really get all uppity over it.
How are Koreans at accepting Konglish, or no wait, Engrean?
Koreans are like Japanese. They LOVE when you show interest for their language and will call you great at it when you say hello incorrectly. That said, when you get beyond the "omfg that's so cute, he sounds like a baby", it gets pretty tough. Koreans and Japanese are not used to foreigners speaking their language like Americans are with English. They can easily misunderstand or not understand you at all, even if what you're saying is pretty much correct, only with bad pronunciation and some misses in the grammar.
What if I am pretty good at not anglicizing spoken words. I can duplicate the sound fairly well. But my overall knowledge of the language is pretty minimal. Can I learn broken Korean? And have it be understood?
Absolutely, but why stop at that? If you can get to that point, all you have to do is improve a bit and it won't be broken ^^.
However, not anglicizing words is a big thing. If you're good at that, it will help you a lot.
On July 11 2011 15:43 TheResidentEvil wrote: well SHETH is the best player on FXO so its unfortunate he doesnt want to go back. Blink stalkers made sheth go home.
Well Oz is the best player. Pity Sheth won't reach his full potential.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
so, Sheth does what he thinks is the best for him and you call that embarassing? Maybe you shouldn't judge people you don't know personally
That's not the point. I don't really agree with Sickle, but what he saying has nothing to do with knowing Sheth personally. The thing is, when you're in a high position, you have responsibility. Sheth was not only FXOs best player, he was also their team captain. He chose not to go back and his team is OK with it, so IMO it's for the best for everyone and there's no need to flame Sheth at all. However, think of a boss at a company being made cheif of a department in a new country, then going "nope, don't like it" and abandoning the employees. You don't have to know that boss personally to know it's a bad thing.
So, what's worse:
Going back to Korea, being miserable because the environment doesn't work for you, being really stressed, then going to MLG and being in rough shape.
OR
Going home, recouping and being ready for MLG, showing that month of training you got and rocking up your Pool? There's still a whole lot on the line @ MLG and it's a major competition. FXO has other players that can play in the GSTL and he's already shown he can knock out San from Code A and win in GSTL. His skill level isn't really in question.
You have to make choices that work better for you. Also, they've got 2 coaches in Korea as it is right now (Unstable + Wolf), so it's not exactly a big worry on that front.
Or, as Kenny Rodgers would put it, "sometimes, you need to know when to fold'm".
Sure it's not the best desicion for the team FXO. But on the other hand, we can watch Sheth playing and explaining, again! I'm so happy about that I loved watching your stream, Sheth!
I hopy you have enogh practice partner on NA! Sheth fighting!
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
What happened to wolf ( or was it doa? Cannot remember) saying you can pickup basic hongul in an afternoon (expecting overstatement here) in about an afternoon, since the language was built with ease of learning?
Also, ummm. No CD drives? I can probably think of a lot of free and easy to use places to learn Korean. Im just not getting this one.
I am NOT being critical, just trying to understand what has been posted so far.
The privacy thing I totally understand.
You can definitely pickup hangul in an afternoon, it's a very logical and simple writing system since it's so modern. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you much at all. Going from being able to read a word of hangul at 1 symbol a second to actually being able to read a sentence with decent speed is a huge jump, and even if you do, you have no idea what any of it means. Korean words conjugate quite hardcore, it can be hard to know when two words are just two forms of the same word.
Well thats fine no one is expecting anyone to pick up the language and operate it perfectly in a really short amount of time.
I mean non english speakers speak really really broken english and we dont really get all uppity over it.
How are Koreans at accepting Konglish, or no wait, Engrean?
Koreans are like Japanese. They LOVE when you show interest for their language and will call you great at it when you say hello incorrectly. That said, when you get beyond the "omfg that's so cute, he sounds like a baby", it gets pretty tough. Koreans and Japanese are not used to foreigners speaking their language like Americans are with English. They can easily misunderstand or not understand you at all, even if what you're saying is pretty much correct, only with bad pronunciation and some misses in the grammar.
What if I am pretty good at not anglicizing spoken words. I can duplicate the sound fairly well. But my overall knowledge of the language is pretty minimal. Can I learn broken Korean? And have it be understood?
Absolutely, but why stop at that? If you can get to that point, all you have to do is improve a bit and it won't be broken ^^.
However, not anglicizing words is a big thing. If you're good at that, it will help you a lot.
Yeah I have pretty good mouth micro or at least im told from years of french class. That is great news then. A language you can pick up quickly and an appreciative audience? Oh yeah i am totally feeling that.
That being said. For a person who doesn't play LANS.... to go to GSL? Major balls. Big ones.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
Huh? Sheth gave solid reasons. If you haven't traveled a lot, it can be really rough. From what has been posted about Sheth, he really didn't travel much before SC2, so Korea was a rough shock for him. Not everyone is cut out for just uprooting their lives like that. Even the aussies on FXO have talked about how hard its been for them, so it's not like Sheth is alone in this.
Also, not everyone is an extrovert. Some just need their space and suddenly going from your own apartment to bunking with 10 other people isn't cut out for everyone.
No offence, but those sound like "personal" reasons to me. Its not like Sheth suddenly had VISA issues and had to give up all chance at staying in korea despite it being against his will. We can all agree that this feels like a waste but i cant help but feel let down that his decision is due to such.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
You're kind of being a jerk using words like "deserts." Going to Korea shouldn't be a prerequisite to getting respect as a foreigner. Perhaps putting in a lot of work in a country not named Korea can make you a great player as well?
You're also misunderstanding sickles argument. He's not saying you have to be in korea and do good to be respected, he's saying it's a waste that Sheth took the opportunity to go there and then leave his team to fight alone. He has good reasons which at least I respect and understand, but that doesn't make it less of a waste.
It's not really a waste because you dont know what you're getting into until you actually get into it. And he WAS taking a shot at sheth, saying you deserted your teammates is a pure insult. You dont just linearly get better in Korea no matter what, if you're miserable than you can't help that. In reality you'll be spending your days in a foreign country that's alien to you in essentially a dorm with no outlets to your family or friends at home. It's not for everyone.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
Huh? Sheth gave solid reasons. If you haven't traveled a lot, it can be really rough. From what has been posted about Sheth, he really didn't travel much before SC2, so Korea was a rough shock for him. Not everyone is cut out for just uprooting their lives like that. Even the aussies on FXO have talked about how hard its been for them, so it's not like Sheth is alone in this.
Also, not everyone is an extrovert. Some just need their space and suddenly going from your own apartment to bunking with 10 other people isn't cut out for everyone.
No offence, but those sound like "personal" reasons to me. Its not like Sheth suddenly had VISA issues and had to give up all chance at staying in korea despite it being against his will. We can all agree that this feels like a waste but i cant help but feel let down that his decision is due to such.
Sheth needs to do what's best for Sheth. It's unreasonable to expect otherwise.
This is very disappointing news. He is not only forgoing a rare opportunity to train with his team in Korea, but he is also abandoning his team in the GSTL as well as giving up his spot in the GSL Code A. Not to mention he is also bailing as the team's ace player and the team's best zerg coach/training partner.
Korea might be a difficult experience, but guess what?, Sheth's full time job is to be a professional gamer representing FXO. I am sure many of us have had to make sacrifices on our jobs and progaming should be no exception, especially if we want e-sports to be taken more seriously. I am sure if any of us pulled this on our jobs, we'd be cleaning our desks the very next day. Two weeks is certainly not enough and I can say that is was a disrespectful move to bail on the team especially after the organization flew him back to the US for NASL and I am sure booked a return ticket for him for Korea. Not many players have the privilege for that type of financial backing and I am sure none of this was a cheap investment.
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh in advance if Sheth had more severe reasons to not return to Korea, but the biggest loser is certainly the fans. Maybe Sheth isn't someone I should be rooting for. Looking forward to Naniwa, Thorzain, Fenix, and Sase in August.
Well I'll just say that the idea of learning korean in a month while presumably practicing sc2 all day long is somewhat laughable. USB cd drives are like 30 bucks by the way. No one had a laptop with a cd drive? I can go on
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
On July 11 2011 18:07 JYN wrote: This is very disappointing news. He is not only forgoing a rare opportunity to train with his team in Korea, but he is also abandoning his team in the GSTL as well as giving up his spot in the GSL Code A. Not to mention he is also bailing as the team's ace player and the team's best zerg coach/training partner.
Korea might be a difficult experience, but guess what?, Sheth's full time job is to be a professional gamer representing FXO. I am sure many of us have had to make sacrifices on our jobs and progaming should be no exception, especially if we want e-sports to be taken more seriously. I am sure if any of us pulled this on our jobs, we'd be cleaning our desks the very next day. Two weeks is certainly not enough and I can say that is was a disrespectful move to bail on the team especially after the organization flew him back to the US for NASL and I am sure booked a return ticket for him for Korea. Not many players have the privilege for that type of financial backing and I am sure none of this was a cheap investment.
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh in advance if Sheth had more severe reasons to not return to Korea, but the biggest loser is certainly the fans. Maybe Sheth isn't someone I should be rooting for. Looking forward to Naniwa, Thorzain, Fenix, and Sase in August.
If your loyalty is swayed that easily you probably weren't a real fan to begin with.
Shame it didn't work out but I'm sure it was a good learning experience and I hope this helped him to get an idea of how he want's his future to be. <3 Sheth and GL with your future endeavors!
On July 11 2011 16:54 furymonkey wrote: I guess not able to watch porn is the last straw. I would say this is just a normal transition shock, and is no different than joining the army. Few just wouldn't make it.
Haha, very true. If I'm not mistaken Sheth had only moved out from home fairly recently, so to go from living with family to living with one room-mate to having 10+ guys in one house within several months can be pretty tough.
On July 11 2011 18:07 JYN wrote: This is very disappointing news. He is not only forgoing a rare opportunity to train with his team in Korea, but he is also abandoning his team in the GSTL as well as giving up his spot in the GSL Code A. Not to mention he is also bailing as the team's ace player and the team's best zerg coach/training partner.
Korea might be a difficult experience, but guess what?, Sheth's full time job is to be a professional gamer representing FXO. I am sure many of us have had to make sacrifices on our jobs and progaming should be no exception, especially if we want e-sports to be taken more seriously. I am sure if any of us pulled this on our jobs, we'd be cleaning our desks the very next day. Two weeks is certainly not enough and I can say that is was a disrespectful move to bail on the team especially after the organization flew him back to the US for NASL and I am sure booked a return ticket for him for Korea. Not many players have the privilege for that type of financial backing and I am sure none of this was a cheap investment.
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh in advance if Sheth had more severe reasons to not return to Korea, but the biggest loser is certainly the fans. Maybe Sheth isn't someone I should be rooting for. Looking forward to Naniwa, Thorzain, Fenix, and Sase in August.
If your loyalty is swayed that easily you probably weren't a real fan to begin with.
Rooting for someone isn't the same as being a loyal fan.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I completely understand this. The flights alone would have ruined me. And I can also relate to the privacy issue.
From what i understood it wasnt the practicing 12 hours a day or living in Korea part that Sheth didnt like - it was sharing a room with 10 other guys in close proximity that he couldnt accept. I can totally understand where he is coming from. Some people need thier private space - i am also like that.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
I'm sorry that Sheth didn't feel comfortable in Korea, but it happens sometimes. Also, maybe someday he'll change his mind about it, after enough time passes to rethink. I support him in whatever he chooses anyway, and he already had announced that he's not planning to stay more than the one month, so it's not that surprising that he preferred not to go back for just a couple of weeks more.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Ronaldo might, but a ton of top top soccer players live abroad since the teams they play in for champions league etc isn't where they are from.
EDIT: Never mind, you mean the privacy issue and I definitely agree with you there.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Wow i am stunned, never thought he didnt like korea and the team house. Kind of sad for fxo that one of their best players cant support them in GSTL but hey, if it is better for sheth to practise at his own house than it is better for him and the team that he didnt come back. I am still rooting for fxo and sheth and hope he feels more comfortable now.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
And how exactly is sleeping in the same, small room (quite probably with tiny beds) with the entire team beneficial? I'm not disputing the long training sessions with your practice partners / coach sitting right next to you for discussions. That's an essential part of the Korean model. The fact that everyone lives in the same house even outside training hours seems to be more a matter of convenience and financial reasons.
awww thats to bad. I felt like Sheth really had the strongest showing out of the FXO members in Korea. hearts and smiley faces for you Sheth <3 You're my fav FXO member!
On July 11 2011 18:07 JYN wrote: This is very disappointing news. He is not only forgoing a rare opportunity to train with his team in Korea, but he is also abandoning his team in the GSTL as well as giving up his spot in the GSL Code A. Not to mention he is also bailing as the team's ace player and the team's best zerg coach/training partner.
Korea might be a difficult experience, but guess what?, Sheth's full time job is to be a professional gamer representing FXO. I am sure many of us have had to make sacrifices on our jobs and progaming should be no exception, especially if we want e-sports to be taken more seriously. I am sure if any of us pulled this on our jobs, we'd be cleaning our desks the very next day. Two weeks is certainly not enough and I can say that is was a disrespectful move to bail on the team especially after the organization flew him back to the US for NASL and I am sure booked a return ticket for him for Korea. Not many players have the privilege for that type of financial backing and I am sure none of this was a cheap investment.
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh in advance if Sheth had more severe reasons to not return to Korea, but the biggest loser is certainly the fans. Maybe Sheth isn't someone I should be rooting for. Looking forward to Naniwa, Thorzain, Fenix, and Sase in August.
If your loyalty is swayed that easily you probably weren't a real fan to begin with.
Why should someone be a fan of someone who turns his back on his team and his fans?
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
He didn't join FXO with the korean model in mind. Sheth has always said he prefers to stay in the US, I even recall him saying that if he won stuff in the US he could avoid being sent abroad.
On July 11 2011 18:35 -Archangel- wrote: Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Lol. You heard it here first guys, if you're not willing to live in the equivalent of a cramped youth hostel, you're not cut out to be a progamer.
Not to sound negative but the Korean model of practicing is hardcore and I feel it's a bit too hardcore for foreign players. Not to blame you guys, but some people want their privacy and can't play for 12 hours a day.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
I'm pretty sure having your own place does not contradict the Korean training model...
On July 11 2011 18:45 papaz wrote: Too bad Sheth although I understand.
Not to sound negative but the Korean model of practicing is hardcore and I feel it's a bit too hardcore for foreign players. Not to blame you guys, but some people want their privacy and can't play for 12 hours a day.
Gl in other events.
then just lose to all the koreans in all competitions if players are not willing to do the same sacrifices the koreans do then you just see them keep dominating all competitions
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
I'm pretty sure having your own place does not contradict the Korean training model...
pretty sure for the vast majority of players except a handful the korean training model has been living in a team house with alot of guys with no privacy and playing for 10-12 hrs a day....and id assume when training is done youd mostly talk abouit sc2....
edit: and sheth leaving imo its not a big deal and i understand it, maybe he thought he could have handled it better.....but i just find it odd that captains in sports are expected to be the role model and sacrifice for their team and have to be dragged away from there team even if they're injured to get them to leave them but in esports teams really dont seem to have the same dedication to each other.
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
And how exactly is sleeping in the same, small room (quite probably with tiny beds) with the entire team beneficial? I'm not disputing the long training sessions with your practice partners / coach sitting right next to you for discussions. That's an essential part of the Korean model. The fact that everyone lives in the same house even outside training hours seems to be more a matter of convenience and financial reasons.
I don't know exactly, but after living in Korea for over 3 1/2 years... I'd have to say many Koreans that I have met are pretty CLOSE with their friends. As in they don't seem to have a problem with sleeping together in close proximity (male to male) I would say maybe it could just be a different culture. Living conditions is a lot different than American culture...
dude really i wish i was in sheth shoes and have opportunitie to train in korean and all and i bet im not alone its sad when people dont take the opportunities
I think Sheth is a great person, a great player and all - I understand his reasons, they are legit, but still, this is honestly seriously disappointing. The thing is, this really isn't just about him, to leave your team midway as captain, especially when they are struggling, is simply not great leadership to say the least. Yes, missing your family/friends, practicing in a small place with ten other guys I bet is difficult to adjust to also, but couldn't he have just at least toughed it out for two more weeks? =(
More importantly, could be wrong, but I'd think it would give foreign players a bad image in terms of professionalism.
On July 11 2011 18:52 GizmoPT wrote: dude really i wish i was in sheth shoes and have opportunitie to train in korean and all and i bet im not alone its sad when people dont take the opportunities
Unbelievably easy to say when you aren't and will most likely never be in that position.
On July 11 2011 18:52 GizmoPT wrote: dude really i wish i was in sheth shoes and have opportunitie to train in korean and all and i bet im not alone its sad when people dont take the opportunities
Unbelievably easy to say when you aren't and will most likely never be in that position.
lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
On July 11 2011 18:52 GizmoPT wrote: dude really i wish i was in sheth shoes and have opportunitie to train in korean and all and i bet im not alone its sad when people dont take the opportunities
Unbelievably easy to say when you aren't and will most likely never be in that position.
I am pretty sure that the majority of the tl.net posters will stay more than two weeks in Korea if they had the chance, thats why is understandable when people are not happy with Sheth`s descision.
On July 11 2011 18:52 GizmoPT wrote: dude really i wish i was in sheth shoes and have opportunitie to train in korean and all and i bet im not alone its sad when people dont take the opportunities
Unbelievably easy to say when you aren't and will most likely never be in that position.
I am pretty sure that the majority of the tl.net posters will stay more than two weeks in Korea if they had the chance, thats why is understandable when people are not happy with Sheth`s descision.
hell i spent 2 months in montreal in a 2 bedroom apt with 5 guys for my cs team that was only cevo m lol and not speaking french you learnt real quick which stores are fine with english speakers and which ones hate you lol
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
On July 11 2011 18:35 -Archangel- wrote: Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Lol. You heard it here first guys, if you're not willing to live in the equivalent of a cramped youth hostel, you're not cut out to be a progamer.
Unless you have a decent wage from your team then this seems to be true. When was the last time anyone from outside Korea won something big? Naniwa at the mlg before the most recent one? It is more about attitude anyway. If you are not willing to sacrifice quite alot or sort of go all in on gaming, you probably will not make it to the top. Maybe that is not what Sheth wants though, I dont know.
Edit: Spelling and I forgot about Thorzain in TSL3 lol
Different people, different lives and personalities. At Sheth's age my life had been quite chaotic for a couple of years and I didn't have much of a family to be with either. But there are so many related things that can wear people down, for example not feeling that there is "a home".
Having that said, life just started when you are 22. Even if there were problems odds are it will turn out to have been a strengthening experience.
On July 11 2011 18:49 djfoxmccloud wrote: Well, if you can't commit to one thing for a month in your life, especially if it is your job, then you won't go far in life i guess...
I don't want to bash on Sheth or anyone, but one month in a life is nothing.
this, million time this.
i like sheth more than any FXO player, to be honest.
to see him this weak-minded and borderline unprofessional is like getting stabbed with a knife right through the heart.
I still have alot of respect for sheth and wish him the best with whatever he does also off topic totalbiscuit dont get caught up in another TL arguement.
On July 11 2011 18:35 -Archangel- wrote: Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Lol. You heard it here first guys, if you're not willing to live in the equivalent of a cramped youth hostel, you're not cut out to be a progamer.
Until SC2 progamers get payed big salaries so they can affort their own apartments and cars to get them to the training place it will stay like this. For now with the amount of money that is invested into Starcraft and players this is they way it was found to work. And if you still think I am wrong please give me an example of a non-korean that went far in their first GSL run?
I respect you as a commentator and a esports celebrity but this time you are letting your feelings trump logic.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
You cannot support blindly anything that happens in the scene. I want to see dedication, hard work and overcoming all the difficulties. That is what will make me be a fan of certain player. People like Grrr, Elky, Nazgul didnt quit and thats why they are all respected from the community. Not to mention how good they were at the game. We can see the same with Huk and Jinro with SC2.
understandable, if i would be in his position i would do the same, cant see myself being unhappy in a place i dont really wanna be make me a better player :3
On July 11 2011 18:35 -Archangel- wrote: Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Lol. You heard it here first guys, if you're not willing to live in the equivalent of a cramped youth hostel, you're not cut out to be a progamer.
When SC2 progamers get payed big salaries so they can affort their own apartments and cars to get them to the training place it will stay like this. For now with the amount of money that is invested into Starcraft and players this is they way it was found to work. And if you still think I am wrong please give me an example of a non-korean that went far in their first GSL run?
I respect you as a commentator and a esports celebrity but this time you are letting your feelings trump logic.
Even then idk if koreans would change...i bet with a mindset of "We need to give up a lot. We need to give up everything that belongs to ourselves, only then can you becomes rank 1, 2. I too gave up everything before coming here. I haven’t even thought about getting a girlfriend. I don’t even see my friends often, only occasionally during holidays. Every day is practice." - flash
its going to take more then money to change that(then again flashes team has a dorm and they travel to their practice house).
On July 11 2011 16:39 Tobberoth wrote: After reading Sheths comments, I can understand all of them, except the one about learning korean. Learning a language is hard, it's not something you're going to do in 2 weeks or even 5 months. Being disappointed about that, especially when the only effort was to buy rosetta stone (which is a horrible way to learn a language, especially an eastern one) makes no sense at all. If you wanted to learn korean, you should have stopped with the progaming and gone to a language school in korea. It would still take at least a year before you could communicate on a comfortable level.
Right so he's going to go to Korea with the intention of furthering his PROGAMING training, then stop Progaming so he could go to language school and learn Korean, effectively making the trip to Korea in the first place useless?
Okay.
Not everyone wants to practice 12 hours a day and do nothing else, some people also want to do something else with their lives and have more then 1 hobby . No offense to those koreans, but practicing 12 hours a day and do absolutely nothing else so u can be the best isn't healthy.
Actually the best sportsman around the world work and live like this. Do you think C. Ronaldo just watches TV the whole day? He practices shooting and other stuff even after the team practice is done.
Yes, but after his practice he returns to his own house. I'm sure that alot of people don't mind a lot of work / practise every day, but object to having to spend the rest of the day in a dorm-like environment without any privacy or opportunity to unwind on your own.
Which is exactly the point that Sheth was making in his post in this thread as he said that he wouldn't mind going back to Korea at some point to train in a progaming house, but live in his own place.
Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
I'm pretty sure having your own place does not contradict the Korean training model...
No, but it's a small price to pay for getting to be in the best environment.
If Ronaldo didn't have a choice but to stay in those environments, of course he would. What do you think minor league baseball/football/basketball players do? And being homesick is a short term problem. Do you remember when you were kids and your parents sent you off to sleepover camp? Some kids cry and want to go home, but it's better if they stay.
On July 11 2011 18:49 djfoxmccloud wrote: Well, if you can't commit to one thing for a month in your life, especially if it is your job, then you won't go far in life i guess...
I don't want to bash on Sheth or anyone, but one month in a life is nothing.
this, million time this.
i like sheth more than any FXO player, to be honest.
to see him this weak-minded and borderline unprofessional is like getting stabbed with a knife right through the heart.
-1 fan, sheth.
are you both really so stupid or are you trolling? sheth is doing the best for himself. His life in korea hasn't been as he expected so he goes back to the US to keep on practicing the best way he can. "-1 fan" is just plain stupid
i love sheth and will continue to be a fan but as a person who has dedicated himself to a passion/career choice i find it a little sad that after only 2 weeks sheth has decided to go home
Can't understand the hate. If he has a hard time living with 10 other people and it's influencing his games in a bad way, then this is just a wise desision.
On July 11 2011 18:35 -Archangel- wrote: Then he is in the wrong business. Korean model of training has been used for years and has been proven to work for producing best Starcraft players. If he is not ready to make sacrifices to be the best then he should just find a new path in life before it is too late (or earn money like Destiny and not care about progaming).
Lol. You heard it here first guys, if you're not willing to live in the equivalent of a cramped youth hostel, you're not cut out to be a progamer.
When SC2 progamers get payed big salaries so they can affort their own apartments and cars to get them to the training place it will stay like this. For now with the amount of money that is invested into Starcraft and players this is they way it was found to work. And if you still think I am wrong please give me an example of a non-korean that went far in their first GSL run?
I respect you as a commentator and a esports celebrity but this time you are letting your feelings trump logic.
Even then idk if koreans would change...i bet with a mindset of "We need to give up a lot. We need to give up everything that belongs to ourselves, only then can you becomes rank 1, 2. I too gave up everything before coming here. I haven’t even thought about getting a girlfriend. I don’t even see my friends often, only occasionally during holidays. Every day is practice." - flash
its going to take more then money to change that(then again flashes team has a dorm and they travel to their practice house).
Well maybe even with enough money to have your own place and car it would still be superior to stay in a team house. Like most things in life, it comes down to how much are you willing to sacrifice to get to your goal
On July 11 2011 19:30 OopsOopsBaby wrote: isn't there like college dorms in the west where students live together in the same room?
Well be careful to use "the west", because this only happens very rarely in the Netherlands for example. We usually got our own rooms as students, sharing bathroom/kitchen and sometimes a living room.
I really don't get all the people saying they're not a fan anymore. Although I wouldn't consider myself a Sheth-fan and only watch his stream every now and again, I knew he was both excited and anxious to go to Korea, but also really feared missing his friends and family. So as a real "fan" you should at least know that.
Sheth took a chance for an adventure and found out it's nothing for him. He kept true to himself and instead of doing what he "should" do, he chose to do what just felt right and go home. What would be the use of a very stressed and unhappy Sheth in Korea? Noone would really benefit from that and it would even "hurt" Sheth.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
On July 11 2011 18:49 djfoxmccloud wrote: Well, if you can't commit to one thing for a month in your life, especially if it is your job, then you won't go far in life i guess...
I don't want to bash on Sheth or anyone, but one month in a life is nothing.
this, million time this.
i like sheth more than any FXO player, to be honest.
to see him this weak-minded and borderline unprofessional is like getting stabbed with a knife right through the heart.
-1 fan, sheth.
are you both really so stupid or are you trolling? sheth is doing the best for himself. His life in korea hasn't been as he expected so he goes back to the US to keep on practicing the best way he can. "-1 fan" is just plain stupid
first of, dont start the conversation with calling someone stupid. it's rude in general, shows your mother didn't raise you right, and really lowers the chances of you getting a honest reply (if you were ever even asking for one)
also, don't end the conversation with calling someone stupid. once was enough.
to reply: "-1 fan" is an expression that translates bad into english, so what? use your deduction, obviously it is meant to criticise his dedication. he went last to korea, returned first, abandoned his team which he was captain of, and even gave up Code A spot just because all of it was, what, inconvinient?
how many of us sacrificed for a job, worked 9+ hours and didnt get paid proprely, watched our social life whiter like a sad waterless plant because of all the commitments and deadlines we had to meet? why is being a >professional< gamer easier than that? why do we support players taking the easy roads, when nobody gives us same courtesy in real life? sheth can do what is best for sheth, ofcourse. he did it, and calls it "dick move". when u do a "dick move" in your profession, you loose clients, profit, deals. so why is he any better then the rest of us?
sacrifice, rewards, glory.
also, this guy reply was ok. TotalBiscuit called someone dumb even tho it was totally uncalled for, so it relates to you calling me stupid, twice - even though you had no idea who are you talking to, nor do i know for sure that you're not some teen without manners insulting people for fun because internet provides you anonimity.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
You cannot support blindly anything that happens in the scene. I want to see dedication, hard work and overcoming all the difficulties. That is what will make me be a fan of certain player. People like Grrr, Elky, Nazgul didnt quit and thats why they are all respected from the community. Not to mention how good they were at the game. We can see the same with Huk and Jinro with SC2.
I don't know why people would be hateful. Truth be told I can't respect a person who can't even adjust to new living environments. Plus he's really let his team hung out to dry and basically abandoned them.
However, it's ultimately his choice and it's not like he's personally wronged me, so I don't feel any animosity towards him. People should chill out and move on.
I think a lot of us are silly to judge Sheth when we may not know the whole picture.
MLG is in a few weeks, and I am sure Sheth will be as prepared as possible and do the best he can. Sheth is a great guy, very mannered, polite, and a hell of a player. For anyone to say "not a fan anymore" or anything along those lines means you probably weren't much of a fan in the first place. If your a Sheth fan, support him for making the decision he made, which I am sure wasn't an easy one.
I would not like to live in a house with half a dozen people - no matter if they are friends or not - and I can fully understand him. The amount of people on high horses using unfitting comparisions is really saddening me. You know people get ill from living/working in an environment that does not work out for them?
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavior they dont agree with?
You should probably question wether or not you want to be a progamer then. Playerhouses are the future for the western countries aswell (if the popularity of SC2 doesn't crash and burn in a few months).
On July 11 2011 19:51 grs wrote: I would not like to live in a house with half a dozen people - no matter if they are friends or not - and I can fully understand him. The amount of people on high horses using unfitting comparisions is really saddening me. You know people get ill from living/working in an environment that does not work out for them?
It's not like the living condition of a practice house is a secret. Would you volunteer to teach kids English in a third world country, then go there and be like, whoa... no running water? I didn't sign up for this!
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
This is the TL boards tho, its always witchhunt day
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I hear he didn't want to cast with tasteless because he disowned him as a brother, is this true TB? c'mon you're closer to him then most!...
Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sheth never ever said he will stay in Korea when he got knocked out of Code A... I'm even certain he said he will only be there for couple of weeks. and I also believe he said he will move in when his whole team is going to Malaysia team house...
progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
I think it is fine sheth decide for himself that training in the Korean isn't something for him and do we have any rights to stop him? no we don't and why should we? Some talk about homesick and who wouldn't be but if he don't think he wants to stay there then it is fine. Why should we tell him to stay. it can only damage he's game in the future and will do no good.
On July 11 2011 17:02 FXOpen wrote: The area of korea sheth was living in, had minimal english. You had to get by with monitors showing prices, and hand signals.
If you lived in the centre of seoul, you would probably have no problem. But english is by no means common in Korea. At the same time, we have korean speakers on our team, so it wasn't an issue.
I was under the impression the gomhouse was located in seoul. Personally I've been in many cities around korea and the only one where I wouldn't expect to be able to get by with just English would be Gyeongju since like 80%+ of the population seems to be old people and it's really traditional.
Granted, you can't go into every single restaurant, even in the center of seoul, and expect them to speak English to you. However, being hungry in seoul and finding a restaurant where you'll have no problem ordering food without english? Should take 10 minutes, even in suburbs such as yongin.
Because ordering food is the only thing you want to do in a foreign country.
I know lots of Koreans and even the ones I met abroad who had spent a whole semester studying nothing but English I found it difficult to have a meaningful conversation with. At some point, you just want to discuss world events, or Lady Gaga outfits or whatever floats your boat. In a country like South Korea, that is often close to impossible if you do not speak Korean. So you're bound to be unhappy even if you're able to shop and order food.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
You're grossly exaggerating the 'hate' in this thread. So should all 'high profile community members' be exempt from criticism of any kind? I skimmed through the thread looking for the hateful, malicious posts you speak of, and found nothing.
On July 11 2011 19:51 grs wrote: I would not like to live in a house with half a dozen people - no matter if they are friends or not - and I can fully understand him. The amount of people on high horses using unfitting comparisions is really saddening me. You know people get ill from living/working in an environment that does not work out for them?
It's not like the living condition of a practice house is a secret. Would you volunteer to teach kids English in a third world country, then go there and be like, whoa... no running water? I didn't sign up for this!
Can you imagine that things work out different than you thought they would? What if I take your example with all the best intentions and after I have been there see, that I simply can't bear it? Don't you think it would hurt me enough already that I would have to give up without keyboard heroes jumping on me?
On July 11 2011 19:52 Coolwhip wrote: You should probably question wether or not you want to be a progamer then. Playerhouses are the future for the western countries aswell (if the popularity of SC2 doesn't crash and burn in a few months).
I dont know why was it hard to stay in Korea, you get to do what you love to do, gets to know&actually meet real korean pros, playing broadcast games etc. much much more benefits that you should have take advantage off.Seriously, its like a once in a lifetime opportunity for ppl who considered themselves a gamer, just like you love Basketball and you get to play in NBA, you tried for a few weeks then said no...
I, being asian myself, have had a chance to be in a monk hood for a while.I had to shaved my head, always stay in monk robes, only eat 2 meals a day (morning&lunch after that you can only drink water), have to wake up as early as 4 or 5a.m. everyday, you cant wear underwear, u cant touch any woman, you have to pray a lot during the day, you cant wear any shoes nor sandals, you occasionally go into the jungle to do stuff related to Bhuddhist(year still no shoes) and many many other things that i dont wanna keep going on but my point is : i most likely considered myself Atheist BUT i still did it just for the sake of my mom eventho i never thought i'd ever do it in my life, yet, i tough'd it out w/o complainin much.
I always enjoyed watching Sheth plays.IMO, he has potentials to be one of the best foreigner Zerg or even one of the best zerg in the world if he gets to stay in Korea like Idra.
But hey, people are different if he thinks its best for him then its his choice.
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
On July 11 2011 19:53 TotalBiscuit wrote: Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts...
On July 11 2011 19:57 lahey wrote: progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
How about he can be a progamer based on his merit as a player rather than his choice of accomodation? If he can't compete outside of a training house environment, then that's his own problem and it will show in his results.
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts
I think I know better how to handle my image than you do, let's be honest. If I didn't, I doubt I'd still be in my line of work.
If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm disappointed to hear that Sheth will not return to Korea. I also think this is a big blow for the team since Sheth is one of their top-players and they were struggling already before.
He probably has his reasons. It would be nice though to read a personal statement of why he decided not to return. I hope it's sth. else beside that he didn't like it that much from a personal point of view. Sometimes the best place to be for your career is not necessarily the place that you feel most comfortable personally to be at. That sounds harsh but it is unfortunately true. At the end of the day everybody has to make that decision for himself. I think Huk has shown what you can achieve by dedicating yourself to SC2 in Korea. But that is probably not for everybody.
Sad to hear. Should have though it out for 2 more weeks at least :/ You didn't really experience Korea in 2 weeks... Living with 10 guys must not be easy, but i'd sacrifice porn for "real" training.
Much support for Sheth. Having attended a few wrestling training camps, living in a small house with a large amount of other guys and working hard every day is nothing like people expect it to be. Add to that the stress of competing at the highest level and performing in a completely different culture it's a wonder that more people don't burn out like this.
In the end, Sheth has to do what is best for his mental state and his career, if this is what he needs then people should support that like his team is.
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I think you have to make a difference between "hate" torwards a nice person and criticism torwards a professional sportsman. If the soccerteam captain and one of the best players states "I didnt like travelling with 30 ppl in a bus an living in hotels for the next 2 months, so i will go home tomorrow" during a season, i dont think that ppl will say "ooh.... but he is such a nice guy!" He is a professional player and acting like this is not very professional.
I actually can understand his decicion and im with him (cause i had to live 2 months in uganda because of my company and i hated it). If he cant live with the current situation, he shouldnt have to.
But calling all critisism "blind hate" isnt really productive either.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
Stop misusing the word hate. What people are writing in this thread is not even close to hate. I really like Sheth, but I do not like this decision. Do I hate Sheth because of this? Some people are a bit disappointed, that is not hate.
And why do you have to try instigate constantly? It is hardly surprising that a decision like this would garner at least a few negative reactions, but still most replies here are very supportive towards Sheth. Respect that people have differing opinions and stop trying making drama please.
I am 100% behind Sheth's decision, I mean come on no cd drives...also 10 people in the same apt all playing sc2... god just sounds awful. A lot of you guys are being too harsh, he didnt ABANDON his team that badly, or completely throw away an undeserved but given gsl code a spot. Although i guess it is better to just stream and get guaranteed money instead of having to face the most skilled players in the world atm.....
Anyone here talking about "commitment" for something that is your job should go ahead and actually live thousands of miles from their home, family and friends for more than 1 month or shut the hell up.
If Sheth decides to stay in the US, it is probably the best decision. What do we know about his current state? Nothing. We should support Sheth wherever he plays.
I really would like to see him taking more games off Koreans, but what he did so far is great already.
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
Results don't lie man, plus, you have to sacrifice a lot if you want to succeed.
For example I'd have to say goodbye to everyone if I were to become a professional computer programmer, because I'd need to go and live abroad(maybe in India) , in order to study, since my country does not offer the formation I need. Same with US(or anything else) vs Korea.
Besides, I've implied that at THIS time it's the only way to become the best, yes it may be inefficient, but noone invented a better method yet.
On July 11 2011 19:51 grs wrote: I would not like to live in a house with half a dozen people - no matter if they are friends or not - and I can fully understand him. The amount of people on high horses using unfitting comparisions is really saddening me. You know people get ill from living/working in an environment that does not work out for them?
It's not like the living condition of a practice house is a secret. Would you volunteer to teach kids English in a third world country, then go there and be like, whoa... no running water? I didn't sign up for this!
Can you imagine that things work out different than you thought they would? What if I take your example with all the best intentions and after I have been there see, that I simply can't bear it? Don't you think it would hurt me enough already that I would have to give up without keyboard heroes jumping on me?
Did you not even read my first sentence? I said the living conditions are not a secret. Heck, TLO went through the same thing when he left Korea.
oh my god I can't believe all the ignorant hate going sheth's way. Living in a pro-gaming house in korea is not the only way to be a pro-gamer. Maybe it was the case in BW but not anymore.
To those saying sheth 'gave up' after only 2 weeks, consider the fact that sheth never really wanted to go to korea in the first place, it took a lot of convincing for him to even go there when he's been telling fxoboss he thinks he can make just as much of a living off pro-gaming in america.
On July 11 2011 20:01 TotalBiscuit wrote: If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
but nobody is attacking the "nice, manner guy" that Sheth is. nobody is saying he is not "nice", and that he didnt do "good things for the community". people are sad because he didn't last three weeks in a most professional enviroment there is: South Korea. and people REALLY want to see >good< foreigners succed, which Sheth is (one of the rare naturals). so it hurts more, and brings out harsh(er than perhaps needed) criticsm. it's like loosing Gareth Bale to injury at season start, even tho he's one of those young guys that can go up there with the best and change thing for his team (foreign scene)
you calling people that don't agree with you "screeching good-for nothing haters" is just uncalled for.
On July 11 2011 20:09 RubiksCube wrote: Anyone here talking about "commitment" for something that is your job should go ahead and actually live thousands of miles from their home, family and friends for more than 1 month or shut the hell up.
i had to abandon almost everything in Thailand to come and live here in US with my mom eventho i didnt want to AT ALL but i still did it for the sake of my mom and my own responsibilities.
I broke up with my gf, i lost my easy earning job there, my friends, foods, life style etc. basically everything, now im working 6days a week and barely live what ppl called a "life"
On July 11 2011 20:07 Grend wrote: Stop misusing the word hate. What people are writing in this thread is not even close to hate. I really like Sheth, but I do not like this decision. Do I hate Sheth because of this? Some people are a bit disappointed, that is not hate.
There is plenty of hate, unless all you want to do is selectively read this thread
And why do you have to try instigate constantly? It is hardly surprising that a decision like this would garner at least a few negative reactions, but still most replies here are very supportive towards Sheth. Respect that people have differing opinions and stop trying making drama please.
If I wasn't me, you wouldn't be typing this, so I have to wonder who is really stirring drama here.
you calling people that don't agree with you "screeching good-for nothing haters" is just uncalled for
Once again, a strawman fallacy. It is the manner in which people convey their opinions that makes them either reasonable, or dumb haters. Don't accuse me of things when it's an interpretation problem on your end please.
On July 11 2011 19:57 lahey wrote: progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
How about he can be a progamer based on his merit as a player rather than his choice of accomodation? If he can't compete outside of a training house environment, then that's his own problem and it will show in his results.
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts
I think I know better how to handle my image than you do, let's be honest. If I didn't, I doubt I'd still be in my line of work.
If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Sheth ABANDONED his team in Korea. Sheth KNEW he would be in an apartment with 10 other players. Whether he puts smileys in his GG's or not what he did was EXTREMELY disrespectful, and looking upon it with anything but disgust just shows what kind of mentality you have. /thread
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
In short burst, 10-12 hours a day is effective. But over the course of several months, unless the *only* thing that's important in SC2 is rote practice, then, yes, the Korean method would be better. But reading about how they do it, it strikes me they're putting too much time in and limiting the effective practice.
Also, there's a *big* drop off in effectiveness after 7 hours at any task. So, it calls into question how much utility there is in those extra hours.
The team that merges a coach with a part-time map maker to train specific skills, for a few hours a day, for each player will probably see a huge benefit. Each player has things they obviously need to work on, so just "play more games" isn't exactly the best help and you're not necessarily working on the specific things that are needed.
On July 11 2011 20:09 RubiksCube wrote: Anyone here talking about "commitment" for something that is your job should go ahead and actually live thousands of miles from their home, family and friends for more than 1 month or shut the hell up.
i had to abandon almost everything in Thailand to come and live here in US with my mom eventho i didnt want to AT ALL but i still did it for the sake of my mom and my own responsibilities.
I broke up with my gf, i lost my easy earning job there, my friends, foods, life style etc. basically everything, now im working 6days a week and barely live what ppl called a "life"
Yea. Your point? Now imagine all that but without your mom and you get the situation sheth was in.
On July 11 2011 20:09 RubiksCube wrote: Anyone here talking about "commitment" for something that is your job should go ahead and actually live thousands of miles from their home, family and friends for more than 1 month or shut the hell up.
slept on a floor, in a terrible neighbourhood for 8 months while starting to train in a new city, with no way to see my family or friends for long stretches at a time (months)
He's not the first to do something like this and he won't be the last. You have to do what's right for you and there's no reason not to respect his decision.
Sheth Living with 10 other guys in an appartment in a foreign country are not the best conditions for everyone and I think everybody should respect that.
There's nothing wrong with Sheth's decision, since yeah, it's HIS own decision. But with this mentality, unfortunately, you won't be able to compete with the koreans in the long run.
On July 11 2011 19:57 lahey wrote: progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
How about he can be a progamer based on his merit as a player rather than his choice of accomodation? If he can't compete outside of a training house environment, then that's his own problem and it will show in his results.
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts
I think I know better how to handle my image than you do, let's be honest. If I didn't, I doubt I'd still be in my line of work.
If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Sheth ABANDONED his team in Korea. Sheth KNEW he would be in an apartment with 10 other players. Whether he puts smileys in his GG's or not what he did was EXTREMELY disrespectful, and looking upon it with anything but disgust just shows what kind of mentality you have. /thread
Dude, seriously, get off. Sheth has obviously been talking with BoSs about this for a while (Boss hinted at this). He didn't abandon his team. Was going to NASL finals abandoning his team as well? You're an idiot.
On July 11 2011 20:09 RubiksCube wrote: Anyone here talking about "commitment" for something that is your job should go ahead and actually live thousands of miles from their home, family and friends for more than 1 month or shut the hell up.
i had to abandon almost everything in Thailand to come and live here in US with my mom eventho i didnt want to AT ALL but i still did it for the sake of my mom and my own responsibilities.
I broke up with my gf, i lost my easy earning job there, my friends, foods, life style etc. basically everything, now im working 6days a week and barely live what ppl called a "life"
Yea. Your point? Now imagine all that but without your mom and you get the situation sheth was in.
lol bro... i dont get along well with my mom. I barely speak with her, i never say hi to her.
Now imagine when you come back from work and see your mom then you just walk into your room like noones there
What is the purpose of this thread if we can't give our opinion ?
Is it a thread just to say : Hey nice Sheth glad you left korea !! If so, juste make a thread, type a template and we can all copy paste it and post it.
People are just giving their opinion. no one said that Sheth is a bad player or else. I don't understand why everything has to be black or white and not a shade of gray !!
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
Results don't lie man, plus, you have to sacrifice a lot if you want to succeed.
For example I'd have to say goodbye to everyone if I were to become a professional computer programmer, because I'd need to go and live abroad(maybe in India) , in order to study, since my country does not offer the formation I need. Same with US(or anything else) vs Korea.
Besides, I've implied that at THIS time it's the only way to become the best, yes it may be inefficient, but noone invented a better method yet.
Yes, it works, but I doubt it is the only way. I find it a dangerous development when more and more Koreans are going abroad for tournament and the implications are that all other nationalities must give up their lives to esports to compete. We're talking young people here, sacrificing an education and unlike professional sports players, not making the amounts of money to catch up on it when it's over. And they can play all day because unlike physical sports, there's little exhaustion, so that barrier is gone.
I have actually written an article about this and I am being backed up by scientists who have done research in that field. Too much practice can hurt your performance. There is almost no proper research on effective esports training, which I consider a huge deficit. I am sure there are efficient ways to practice that do not involve 12 hour days, seven days a week.
On July 11 2011 19:57 lahey wrote: progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
How about he can be a progamer based on his merit as a player rather than his choice of accomodation? If he can't compete outside of a training house environment, then that's his own problem and it will show in his results.
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts
I think I know better how to handle my image than you do, let's be honest. If I didn't, I doubt I'd still be in my line of work.
If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Sheth ABANDONED his team in Korea. Sheth KNEW he would be in an apartment with 10 other players. Whether he puts smileys in his GG's or not what he did was EXTREMELY disrespectful, and looking upon it with anything but disgust just shows what kind of mentality you have. /thread
I'm sorry mate, but I can't look upon your mentality here with anything but disgust. To be disapointed in his decision, because of the result (not getting to see Sheth play in the GSL) is perfectly reasonable. To take a leap from there and begin to criticize his decision in such an offensive and hurtful manner, a very personal decision at that, is about as much arrogance as I can take.
On July 11 2011 20:14 Taf the Ghost wrote: The team that merges a coach with a part-time map maker to train specific skills, for a few hours a day, for each player will probably see a huge benefit. Each player has things they obviously need to work on, so just "play more games" isn't exactly the best help and you're not necessarily working on the specific things that are needed.
That is a great suggestion and I hope it is something at least Western teams and organisations will consider at some point.
On July 11 2011 19:57 lahey wrote: progamers earn respect with hard work and determination, progamers ''should'' earn fans by hard work and determination, sheth should seriously consider just becoming a streamer like destiny if he can't handle being in a pro gaming house with 10 other people desperately trying to become the best gamers they can be
How about he can be a progamer based on his merit as a player rather than his choice of accomodation? If he can't compete outside of a training house environment, then that's his own problem and it will show in his results.
nobody is attacking him as a person (he's still one of the nicest guys out there), rather as a professional. even he wrote (page 3) that what he did was a dick move. why are you so angry?
p.s. you remind me of InControl before NASL, you should reallly pay more attention to your community interaction being a high profile caster. it's a big audience out there, forum flaming days should be reserved for smurf TL accounts
I think I know better how to handle my image than you do, let's be honest. If I didn't, I doubt I'd still be in my line of work.
If defending nice, manner guys who've done nothing but good things from some screeching good-for-nothing haters is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Sheth ABANDONED his team in Korea. Sheth KNEW he would be in an apartment with 10 other players. Whether he puts smileys in his GG's or not what he did was EXTREMELY disrespectful, and looking upon it with anything but disgust just shows what kind of mentality you have. /thread
I'm sorry mate, but I can't look upon your mentality here with anything but disgust. To be disapointed in his decision, because of the result (not getting to see Sheth play in the GSL) is perfectly reasonable. To take a leap from there and begin to criticize his decision in such an offensive and hurtful manner, a very personal decision at that, is about as much arrogance as I can take.
I am not disapointed that I did not get to see Sheth play in the gsl, he already lost his matches in code a, although he did have some matches remaining in the GSTL, where he WAS the captain of his team, the best player on the team, and now the only player not WITH the team.
On July 11 2011 20:19 djfoxmccloud wrote: My only question is :
What is the purpose of this thread if we can't give our opinion ?
Is it a thread just to say : Hey nice Sheth glad you left korea !! If so, juste make a thread, type a template and we can all copy paste it and post it.
People are just giving their opinion. no one said that Sheth is a bad player or else. I don't understand why everything has to be black or white and not a shade of gray !!
"Well, that sucks, I was hoping to see Sheth in GSTL" = proper criticism
"Sheth not going back to Korea for 2 WEEKS IS AN AFRONT TO THE EXISTANCE OF MAN AND HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED BY GOD" = Not proper criticism/opinion.
We need more players with determination like IdrA in his Broodwar days. There were so much good BW-players... I remember Draco. He was a fucking beast and in my opinion easily one of the best players in broodwar (foreign) ever, but he was such a crybaby so he didn't make it in Korea.
Also Blackman was as fucking beast. If you go to Korea I guess you know the conditions.. guess its better for Sheth if he doesnt like it, so gl to him.
It really does suck for the team though, definitely. Sheth is the captain of FXO, and he's not even there to help his team out. He could have at least lasted a few more weeks, just for the sake of his team. :S
On July 11 2011 20:24 mTw|NarutO wrote: We need more players with determination like IdrA in his Broodwar days. There were so much good BW-players... I remember Draco. He was a fucking beast and in my opinion easily one of the best players in broodwar (foreign) ever, but he was such a crybaby so he didn't make it in Korea.
Also Blackman was as fucking beast. If you go to Korea I guess you know the conditions.. guess its better for Sheth if he doesnt like it, so gl to him.
But I thought Idra didn't have the eye of the tiger lol.
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
Results don't lie man, plus, you have to sacrifice a lot if you want to succeed.
For example I'd have to say goodbye to everyone if I were to become a professional computer programmer, because I'd need to go and live abroad(maybe in India) , in order to study, since my country does not offer the formation I need. Same with US(or anything else) vs Korea.
Besides, I've implied that at THIS time it's the only way to become the best, yes it may be inefficient, but noone invented a better method yet.
Yes, it works, but I doubt it is the only way. I find it a dangerous development when more and more Koreans are going abroad for tournament and the implications are that all other nationalities must give up their lives to esports to compete. We're talking young people here, sacrificing an education and unlike professional sports players, not making the amounts of money to catch up on it when it's over. And they can play all day because unlike physical sports, there's little exhaustion, so that barrier is gone.
How do you think professional sports got to where they are today? The first pro footballers were just factory workers dedicating all their spare time to something else, barely making any money off of it.
Well... Sheth knew what he was getting into when he committed to this. He should not of had any surprises. Guess he just wasnt cut out for the true training.
On July 11 2011 19:56 PlosionCornu wrote: Well, I consider Korean Training the best (and to this day, the only) way to become the best players on the scene, and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this very same page.
Just like some other "professions" it requires a big sacrifice to be made(family, friends, etc), in order to be pursued to the fullest.
The point how you define the profession of the progamer, people who still think it's some part time hobby (which it can be, don't get me wrong) are not willing to make such high sacrifices, other people want more, and want to give everything to become the absolute best, thus, they forsake what their life has been up until that moment.
It boils down to how one wants the game to influence his life. It's the same decision between "i want to do this forever" or "just for the time being, no worries".
Many jobs require people to decide on such important matters, if you think a bit about it.
Korean training is effective because they put in unrivalled hours. I am sceptical if it is efficient though, so "best" is not an attribute I'd give it easily. If you say you can only succeed like the Koreans do when you ditch your family and private life to a large extent, something is wrong.
Results don't lie man, plus, you have to sacrifice a lot if you want to succeed.
For example I'd have to say goodbye to everyone if I were to become a professional computer programmer, because I'd need to go and live abroad(maybe in India) , in order to study, since my country does not offer the formation I need. Same with US(or anything else) vs Korea.
Besides, I've implied that at THIS time it's the only way to become the best, yes it may be inefficient, but noone invented a better method yet.
Yes, it works, but I doubt it is the only way. I find it a dangerous development when more and more Koreans are going abroad for tournament and the implications are that all other nationalities must give up their lives to esports to compete. We're talking young people here, sacrificing an education and unlike professional sports players, not making the amounts of money to catch up on it when it's over. And they can play all day because unlike physical sports, there's little exhaustion, so that barrier is gone.
I have actually written an article about this and I am being backed up by scientists who have done research in that field. Too much practice can hurt your performance. There is almost no proper research on effective esports training, which I consider a huge deficit. I am sure there are efficient ways to practice that do not involve 12 hour days, seven days a week.
I doubt that too, maybe that wasn't that clear by my previous post. I know it's inefficient, I don't think anyone doubts that. Every single human gets tired as hell after 7-8 hours of continous activity.
I know, it's a pretty big thing forsaking your life for some dark "job" without a clear and safe future for yourself. I would not do something like this myself. But there are individuals who are willing to do this, and show us the result of said mad training. By doing this, these guys top the competition. This set a whole new level, and others must be up there if they want to be competitive. You must offer a similar "product" as your competitors in order to stay relevant, and yes, it's risky as hell.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I agree that the flak that sheth will probably get for this is a little much. Until he says something himself, it looks like what happened was that he found out the hard way that the korean training regimen was not something he wanted to commit to. If sheth did, in any way, let down his team (which is total speculation at this point) that's between him and them. And so what if he didn't feel comfortable doing super long incredibly intense training? Sure, he probably won't ever be competing for the title of the world's top zerg. But if that's not what he wants to be, it's his call. He's still going to be a very strong player, and there's no question he'll still be an important member of the foreigner starcraft community.
If people feel let down that sheth won't be one the foreigners that can challenge the MCs, DRGs, Nesteas, MMAs, and MVPs in major tournaments, remember that he was by no means the only member of FXO in korea. I mean, QXC was probably a big part of why DRG couldn't make it through the code A qualifiers! And can you guys imagine how scary thorzain and naniwa are going to be after f-united?!
@TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? If you're defending someone else and someone attacks you personally on the internet, it just means they aren't actually refuting what you said. There will always be people who will find something not to like about you, so why waste the time and energy getting into arguments with them? It can't be worth it.
On July 11 2011 17:28 FXOpen wrote: most pro gamers dont speak english, and they fit your demographic, but its an irrelevant argument.
thats might have something to do with the fact that most pro-gamer kinda left school in order to play starcraft
I have quiet alot of korean acquintances and they speak 'understandable' english, the reason they dont speak english most of the time is not because they dont know how to but because they feel shy talking to caucasian, not that way to fellow asian though
On July 11 2011 20:31 lahey wrote: You seem to think calling people stupid does not classify YOURSELF as a hater. Double standards are ftw chubs
It's not a difficult distinction to make for anyone with a functioning cerebellum. Calling a spade a spade and hating on people who do more for the community in a day than you will in a lifetime, is about as different as swatting flies is from mass murder.
That said, the distinction could be difficult to make if you happen to suffer from your particular brand of delusions.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I agree that the flak that sheth will probably get for this is a little much. Until he says something himself, it looks like what happened was that he found out the hard way that the korean training regimen was not something he wanted to commit to. If sheth did, in any way, let down his team (which is total speculation at this point) that's between him and them. And so what if he didn't feel comfortable doing super long incredibly intense training? Sure, he probably won't ever be competing for the title of the world's top zerg. But if that's not what he wants to be, it's his call. He's still going to be a very strong player, and there's no question he'll still be an important member of the foreigner starcraft community.
If people feel let down that sheth won't be one the foreigners that can challenge the MCs, DRGs, Nesteas, MMAs, and MVPs in major tournaments, remember that he was by no means the only member of FXO in korea. I mean, QXC was probably a big part of why DRG couldn't make it through the code A qualifiers! And can you guys imagine how scary thorzain and naniwa are going to be after f-united?!
@TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? If you're defending someone else and someone attacks you personally on the internet, it just means they aren't actually refuting what you said. There will always be people who will find something not to like about you, so why waste the time and energy getting into arguments with them? It can't be worth it.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I agree that the flak that sheth will probably get for this is a little much. Until he says something himself, it looks like what happened was that he found out the hard way that the korean training regimen was not something he wanted to commit to.
On July 11 2011 20:28 lahey wrote: Well, then you better get on the treadmill because you have nothing going for you at the moment.
Proving my point about haters beyond a shadow of a doubt. Here endeth the lesson.
You seem to think calling people stupid does not classify YOURSELF as a hater. Double standards are ftw chubs
I guess hating on TB is something you do to look cool or something?
i hate on uneducated dolts, i can't help myself
It seems what when most people start a statement with, "I'm sorry, but, ..." that they aren't really sorry about what they are about to say. That being said:
I'm sorry, but you sound like a moron. You write a bunch of statements about the most manner person in Starcraft 2 being weak, disrespectful, decidedly bad mannered towards his team that are dripping with hatred. Then, when someone sticks up for said person you fall back to the solid argument: "You're fat." Stay classy bro.
With all the hate and judgement going on here I'm going to put in my two cents. Sheth is looking out for number one, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day if Sheth doesn't look out for himself no one will, and if his happiness is contingent upon being around his friends and family then I say good for him.
Lahey, you sit here with your snarky comments and kindergarten insults, but I highly doubt that if given the choice of making yourself happy and disappointing the community a little bit versus being personally miserable while abating a select few here in TL that you would not choose yourself over everyone else.
On July 11 2011 18:59 Falcor wrote: lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
I really don't need to keep up relations with dumb people who don't think before they post and are so quick to board the hate-express against someone who has done nothing but good things for Starcraft 2.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
If blindly going after higher profile community members is what it takes to be thought of as intelligent by mdb then please forgive me if I don't show much concern for your opinion.
There are some downright hateful remarks in this thread and Sheth has done nothing to deserve them.
I wouldnt really call it blind hate tho its in direct response to behavor they dont agree with?
Would you prefer I call it "fucking stupid hate"? Blind seemed more diplomatic and indeed more accurate, since as always, these people know very little about the thing they're attacking.
Today is Witchhunt day it would seem when it comes to nice people in this community. Who's next, Sean Plott?
I agree that the flak that sheth will probably get for this is a little much. Until he says something himself, it looks like what happened was that he found out the hard way that the korean training regimen was not something he wanted to commit to. If sheth did, in any way, let down his team (which is total speculation at this point) that's between him and them. And so what if he didn't feel comfortable doing super long incredibly intense training? Sure, he probably won't ever be competing for the title of the world's top zerg. But if that's not what he wants to be, it's his call. He's still going to be a very strong player, and there's no question he'll still be an important member of the foreigner starcraft community.
If people feel let down that sheth won't be one the foreigners that can challenge the MCs, DRGs, Nesteas, MMAs, and MVPs in major tournaments, remember that he was by no means the only member of FXO in korea. I mean, QXC was probably a big part of why DRG couldn't make it through the code A qualifiers! And can you guys imagine how scary thorzain and naniwa are going to be after f-united?!
@TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? If you're defending someone else and someone attacks you personally on the internet, it just means they aren't actually refuting what you said. There will always be people who will find something not to like about you, so why waste the time and energy getting into arguments with them? It can't be worth it.
Hi Haydin,
Nice post but just to clarify: Sheth posted on page 3 I think. Just seemed like you did not notice based on your second paragraph.
I consider myself a professional at my job - it doesn't mean I want to sacrifice my comfort to be the greatest at it.
Some people are commenting like Sheth should be willing to 'tough it out' or 'harden up', I suspect that Sheth is smart enough to realise that an unhappy life where he may play the BEST SC2 he could ever play is not as great a choice as a life where he's the best player he can be while still being happy and comfortable.
lol nice always working on your community relations i see.
Well there's an obvious bait that's rather condescending with the "lol", which is kind of ridiculous.
Who are you to call people dumb? Honestly, your replies dont leave the impression that you are super intelligent either.
He's defending a professional player who is known as one of the nicest guys in the community from flak he's getting out of nowhere. You are baiting a famous caster because you want to call him dumb on the internet. Yes, I'd say that's hostile.
On July 11 2011 20:45 Grend wrote: Hi Haydin,
Nice post but just to clarify: Sheth posted on page 3 I think. Just seemed like you did not notice based on your second paragraph.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
Good luck Sheth, will be fun to see you at MLG! Best of luck!
On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff?
I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity.
Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right.
Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us.
On July 11 2011 20:55 syllogism wrote: Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
Nobody is saying people can't think less of him, but 1) Think carefully about how you express it, there is a world of difference between constructive criticism and flaming and 2) Do not ignore everything he is done in the past and allow one incident to overshadow that. As others have already pointed out, he is an extremely well-mannered, positive force within this community, a highly skilled and entertaining player, a great contributor to the TL Strategy forum and did a 24 hour livestream very recently for charity.
Forgetting those things when expressing your opinion about a person (which is what a lot of these posts are, they aren't judgments of the opinion, they're judgments of the person, ad hominem) will not lead to a reasonable discussion and is highly reactionary.
On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff?
I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity.
Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right.
Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us.
I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
On July 11 2011 20:48 Demonaz wrote: I can't believe people are actually slating Sheth for this. This forum gets worse every day.
Its a personal decision and he can continue to grow as a player in USA or Korea, makes no difference.
It's not an entirely personal decision considering he went there to play in a team league
You're right. It's between him and his team, and not the teamliquid forums.
Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
You think less of this guy? Seriously? What the hell?
Gutted for Seth, I was kinda hoping that the big names of FXO would stay out in Korea for a bit to really raise there game... and it would have given Seth lots of experiance playing in a televised tournament so he could help deal with his nerves on stage..
On July 11 2011 20:58 gullberg wrote: His decision is understandable, the lifestyle in S.Korea doesn't fit everyone.
Aye, he atleast went out there and tried it. It didn't work out for him, so that's that. Having said that, it's a shame he doesn't feel confortable to finish the GSTL and then leave Korea, but ohh well. *most* of us still love you sheth <3 (even if you're a slimy zerg)
Privacy thing is definitely huge, i sure as hell couldn't live in a pro gaming house regardless of how cool my housemates were. Too much. When can i fap? This is serious. Hell the thought of having to share a room with anyone but a wife/girlfriend also kinda scares me. I haven't had to share a bedroom for 17 years, apart from silly things like family trips and stuff.
Still disappointing, but i can totally understand the decision now. Just gotta think about think think about it.
When I was searching for a flat near my university I had to make the decision do I save money and move in with a friend of mine or do I spend like everything I earn on a flat I would have for myself. I decided for the second option, I may be able to go on vacation with friends or live together for 1-2 weeks but after that it can REALLY get on your nerves. Privacy is a big deal.
On July 11 2011 21:00 nihlon wrote: I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
It's a very bothersome trait of the general SC2 community. Members are quick to leap on and tear apart the slightest thing, whether it be a player, an event, a caster, you name it. Why? Who knows, it's certainly not because they care that much about it, otherwise they'd be providing constructive criticism.
Oh well unfortunately that pretty much cuts FXO's chances to win even one match to zero especially as they are against fOu and IM. Hope they prove me wrong though.
Wish all the best to Sheth in any case, if Korea wasn't for him, it wasn't for him simple as.
On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff?
I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity.
Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right.
Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us.
I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
Pro gamers aren't helpless babies that need to be coddled. You know the saying if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen?
Fact is if you're going to call yourself a professional and be a prominent figure in the community, then accept the responsibilities and criticism that come with it. I'm not saying Sheth deserves hate or anything, but to say that 'pros' are immune to criticism simply for being well known is pretty retarded.
By your logic, you aren't allowed to say a movie sucks unless you've made a blockbuster movie yourself?
It's very understandable. It's tough for some people to constantly be around others in a small living space. Some people are fine with hanging out with people but like that they can go back home where they can recharge, relax, and have their privacy. Everyone's different.
For some people, it can be draining to always be around others without having some time for yourself.
In a foreign country where you don't speak the language, shoulder to shoulder with 10+ guys you kinda know, in cramped quarters every day, when you don't have to be to continue making a living... I am sad we wont be seeing you on GSTL anymore, but I respect the choice to stay home.
I've been in a similar situation with work. Middle of nowhere in the mountains working with a few guys I knew online. I thought I could do it for 3 months, only lasted a month. I knew what I was getting into, and could have done it if I absolutely needed to, but homesickness and other factors really drains some people more than you probably think.
On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff?
I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity.
Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right.
Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us.
I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
Pro gamers aren't helpless babies that need to be coddled. You know the saying if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen?
Fact is if you're going to call yourself a professional and be a prominent figure in the community, then accept the responsibilities and criticism that come with it. I'm not saying Sheth deserves hate or anything, but to say that 'pros' are immune to criticism simply for being well known is pretty retarded.
By your logic, you aren't allowed to say a movie sucks unless you've made a blockbuster movie yourself?
The issue isn't that people have negative opinions, or that pros can't be criticized. It's that people do it without an ounce of respect and in a pretty rude manner. It's why a lot of pros just don't want to engage with the community through the forums anymore. People are being assholes for no real reason, and it's taking away a really cool opportunity to engage more with major people in the SC2 community.
Yes, pros don't need to be coddled. They're called professionals fora reason. But the community doesn't have to be disrespectful jerks either.
On July 11 2011 21:01 Goibon wrote: Privacy thing is definitely huge, i sure as hell couldn't live in a pro gaming house regardless of how cool my housemates were. Too much. When can i fap? This is serious.
The first question that pops in my head about living in a pro gaming house.
Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
On July 11 2011 21:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
I bet if you asked Koreans to live in a progaming house in the US, in a completely alien culture, away from their family and friends, not so many of them would take up the offer. Some people can handle a big paradigm shift in their lives, other people can't. Sheth couldn't, its a shame, but thats how it is.
Sheth, I respect you more than any other player out there but I cannot support this decision that you have made. You have deprived a spot from many deserving players who have worked so hard and never achieved what you have gotten pretty easily, simply because you are a foreigner. Many other players would kill to get your Code A spot and yet you seem to give it up too easily. Sorry, but you have lost me as a fan.
On July 11 2011 21:01 Goibon wrote: Privacy thing is definitely huge, i sure as hell couldn't live in a pro gaming house regardless of how cool my housemates were. Too much. When can i fap? This is serious.
The first question that pops in my head about living in a pro gaming house.
This story about the brothers plott seems rather relevant:
On July 11 2011 20:55 syllogism wrote: Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
Nobody is saying people can't think less of him, but 1) Think carefully about how you express it, there is a world of difference between constructive criticism and flaming and 2) Do not ignore everything he is done in the past and allow one incident to overshadow that. As others have already pointed out, he is an extremely well-mannered, positive force within this community, a highly skilled and entertaining player, a great contributor to the TL Strategy forum and did a 24 hour livestream very recently for charity.
Forgetting those things when expressing your opinion about a person (which is what a lot of these posts are, they aren't judgments of the opinion, they're judgments of the person, ad hominem) will not lead to a reasonable discussion and is highly reactionary.
on point no 2), the world "in general" (the media anyone?) does tend to judge people by a one incident that overshadows anything they have done in the past, like having a criminal record pretty affects a person chances at jobs for life.
the fact that he left code A and the GSTL prematurely will probably stick with his name for a while no doubt, even though he explained his circumstances (which personally, i find it disappointing. I thought he could be the next jinro/huk, especially when he beat San) .
the willingness to not judge a book by its cover is not something everyone has on the forums, not like they need to have it especially since 90% of the people commentating here are anonymous
On July 11 2011 21:20 Biane wrote: on point no 2), the world "in general" (the media anyone?) does tend to judge people by a one incident that overshadows anything they have done in the past, like having a criminal record pretty affects a person chances at jobs for life.
the fact that he left code A and the GSTL prematurely will probably stick with his name for a while no doubt, even though he explained his circumstances (which personally, i find it disappointing. I thought he could be the next jinro/huk, especially when he beat San) .
the willingness to not judge a book by its cover is not something everyone has on the forums, not like they need to have it especially since 90% of the people commentating here are anonymous
Well yes, but there is no reason to lower the bar just because "most" people aren't talented enough to jump over it.
Unfortunately due to the anonymity that the internet provides some people see no reason to show any respect and freely post all their frustrations online.
Best thing to do is to not let this negativity affect you and to set a positive example to the rest of the community so that hopefully these people may come around.
always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
I cant believe he forfeited code a so easily which he got invited while others qualified for and now he's giving up he's team so easily by complaining about he's personal issues.He's excuses disgusts me.What a shame and a huge loss for FXO carring players who arent willing to sacrifice.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
On July 11 2011 21:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
I bet if you asked Koreans to live in a progaming house in the US, in a completely alien culture, away from their family and friends, not so many of them would take up the offer. Some people can handle a big paradigm shift in their lives, other people can't. Sheth couldn't, its a shame, but thats how it is.
Just to make clear: I am not blaming Sheth for anything. He has done very much for the non-Korean esports scene and is a great player, I respect him for that. My post was solely directed to people who say that Korean cultures is what makes the Korean players more comfortable with those living conditions.
On July 11 2011 21:26 Benga wrote: I cant believe he forfeited code a so easily which he got invited while others qualified for and now he's giving up he's team so easily by complaining about he's personal issues.He's excuses disgusts me.What a shame and a huge loss for FXO carring players who arent willing to sacrifice.
sigh... although i understand sheth's position, i felt like it;s an opportunity that only comes very few times to very lucky people. well good luck to sheth and hope to see him to well in the future
Did you guys not read his interviews at the GSL? He had repeatedly said he felt awkward living in a progamer house and was used to living alone. To me it really seemed like he was having hard time adjusting. I never really thought he would be going back in the first place when I saw him at at the NASL Grand Finals...
If you can't live with 12 people in the same house (something I'd say is quite reasonable - I have problems with just three roommates) it will affect your play and eventually your overall skill at the game.
I hope Sheth makes it to the grand finals of NASL Season 2 and wish him the best of luck.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
You keyboard warriors talk a lot of shit when most of you take the bus two blocks to your blue collar jobs then go back home to your parents' house. I don't know how old he us but most of the support he's getting is from people who understand how hard it is to take such a big step in your life and commit to something as moving to another country to pursue a career that he, quiet frankly may not be ready for (i.e. Korean programing).
I think he's doing what's best for him, and by that I mean what he wants to do, and there's no shame in that. It's not like he straight up said "fuck you FXO guys, I'm out of here". I wasn't paying attention to TL but did Moonglade get this kind of shit for not going?
I can't blame him for leaving. I'm sure it is uncomfortable living in a small house with a bunch of other guys and he also said that he was still paying rent for his place back in the US. I don't know anyone who would just shrug off losing money every month for a house they aren't living in currently, especially when your sole source of income is Starcraft 2
On July 11 2011 21:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
This post is similar to many fails of logic I seen on this topic. Korean progamers go into these houses because they know later they will come out better. Foreigners don't do that and are worse as GSL and all the bigger tournaments show us. Even tournaments with no koreans had foreigners that came from korea win them (2xMLG, copperhagen games)
I can't possibly imagine giving up so quickly if I were in his position. He turned down a very rare, probably once in a lifetime opportunity to pursue something he loves and seemed to have a shot at making it big. I'm very sad for him.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Will he get "homesick" again if he goes to live in Malaysia or will he just visit/boot-camp there for a couple of weeks?
Does not seem very professional only staying in Korea for two weeks and leaving with more games to go in GSTL (especially since he is the team captain, responsibility/accountability ya know.)
The MLG aspect of his reasoning leaves me scratching my head. There will be plenty of MLG's in the future.. when his team does not have more games in the GSTL.
The stars lined up for ya bud... "It is better to regret what you have done than what you have not."
On July 11 2011 21:35 carloselcoco wrote: WOW! So this means he might be kicked out of the team?
Where did you get that from? It says in the OP that he will not get kicked off the team... Did you even read it?
Will he still 'work' in the FXO house in malaysia though?
He lives in the US anyway, I think his trip to Malaysia was just to prep for Korea. He has said that he wouldn't stay in Korea, which is why I don't understand all the hate...
I forgive you Sheth, for making me pay 1 point for trading you from my Fantasy team. You earned me 2 points so 2-1 = 1 is still a profit and I'm thankful for your contributions to the team. Things can't stay they same forever and peoples surroundings and realities change. I wish you the best of luck and if that another time ever comes, I'll always have room for Sheth in my Fantasy team.
While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Phil Kessel's team (backed by a ridiculous amount of money, which of course makes a difference) can support him in more ways than FXO could ever support Sheth from counsellors, to private hotel rooms, to just about anything he needs in order to perform at the top of his game.
Of course money makes a difference - a team like FXO does not - and can not - supply its players with the things that the Maple Leafs supply to their players - therefore the obligations (and expectations) of the players are worlds apart.
You're comparing the obligations of Sheth to a man who would earn almost $10,000 x more than Sheth. And you're comparing the expectations of FXO to a team that earns almost $1,000,000 x more than FXO. Do you think FXO's contracts and expectations are as strict as the Maple Leafs?
You should do some research into how modern athletes are supported almost from the day they show potential as a result of all the money in the industry. They are provided with physical and psychological help including how to deal with competition and competing in foreign countries, and more. Phil Kessel is a sportsmen who has been trained to compete and bring everything he's got to the table since he was a teenager. Unfortunately the ESPORTS scene is still at the stage where its really just a bunch of guys who are exceptionally good at what was just a hobby. I still can't see how you can compare the two.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
no surprise at all. not evreybody can get accustomed to being there. of course for a hard core dedicated person for whom it doesn't matter where you are as long as you can play, it's a no-brainer ;P
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Phil Kessel's team (backed by a ridiculous amount of money, which of course makes a difference) can support him in more ways than FXO could ever support Sheth from counsellors, to private hotel rooms, to just about anything he needs in order to perform at the top of his game.
Of course money makes a difference - a team like FXO does not - and can not - supply its players with the things that the Maple Leafs supply to their players - therefore the obligations (and expectations) of the players are worlds apart.
You're comparing the obligations of Sheth to a man who would earn almost $10,000 x more than Sheth. And you're comparing the expectations of FXO to a team that earns almost $1,000,000 x more than FXO. Do you think FXO's contracts and expectations are as strict as the Maple Leafs?
You should do some research into how modern athletes are supported almost from the day they show potential as a result of all the money in the industry. They are provided with physical and psychological help including how to deal with competition and competing in foreign countries, and more. Phil Kessel is a sportsmen who has been trained to compete and bring everything he's got to the table since he was a teenager. Unfortunately the ESPORTS scene is still at the stage where its really just a bunch of guys who are exceptionally good at what was just a hobby. I still can't see how you can compare the two.
It's not about the money. It's about the commitment, which he's showing he doesn't have. You have to give a little to get a little.
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
On July 11 2011 22:56 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: It's not about the money. It's about the commitment, which he's showing he doesn't have. You have to give a little to get a little.
He practices a lot, he streams a lot. He also wrote some very good postings on TL. What commitment did you show?
Honestly, this is kind of ridiculous. Half of the people posting in this thread are saying "he knew what he was getting in to." This is complete and total bullshit.
He knew that he would be living in this space, but he didn't know how it would really be like.
Like when you're a kid, you see that commercial on TV for a super awesome toy; you have a expectation from visual and audial representations of it, and then you get it, and it ends up being very different than you had expected. This is by far the best argument against the belief that he "knew" what he was getting in to.
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
I don't care if it's hell on earth and worse than army boot camp/mandatory military service, which I highly doubt. It's two freaking weeks.
I'm sure that sheth woulda stayed for the last part of the GSTL if he was asked to, but there probably wasnt much point paying for travel expenses etc, if he was going home right after anyway.
On July 11 2011 22:59 kimjongskills wrote: Honestly, this is kind of ridiculous. Half of the people posting in this thread are saying "he knew what he was getting in to." This is complete and total bullshit.
He knew that he would be living in this space, but he didn't know how it would really be like.
Like when you're a kid, you see that commercial on TV for a super awesome toy; you have a expectation from visual and audial representations of it, and then you get it, and it ends up being very different than you had expected. This is by far the best argument against the belief that he "knew" what he was getting in to.
So what you're saying is Sheth acted like a child?
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
I don't care if it's hell on earth and worse than army boot camp/mandatory military service, which I highly doubt. It's two freaking weeks.
Why should Sheth care about the things you have to say about his decision? Did you do anything for the community that remotely compares to Sheth's work? How can you to judge his decision, having no pro-gamer experience at all and especialy no Korean practice experience?
It's remarkable to me the sense of entitlement the community feels. Just because he is a good player who can potentially compete and succeed in Korea and then ends up there, certain members of the community act as if he somehow owes it to them to stick it out, regardless of the circumstances. Anyone who dismisses it using generalities like "he's not dedicated" and the like are just being naive. This is real life ladies and gentlemen. Sometimes shit turns out to not be worth it. This is what Sheth learned at the GOM house. He's not somehow a worse human being he has just decided it isn't for him.
Look, Sheth can do what he wants. If he just wanted to try things out in korea, and now he's deciding he'd rather be other places, then so be it. Of course he's missing a potential opportunity, but that's up to him, not up to us giving him crap and saying he should go back.
What I have taken away from Sheth's post is that for him, not being able to see his family and have some rest and relaxation before MLG was the major breaking point for him to come to his decision. He was uncomfortable in Korea and the inability for him to have a week between events was not conducive to his mental health. (I openly admit this could be very far from fact, but obviously this is my opinion from reading what he posted and as such it must be taken "with a grain of salt.")
The stress of living with multiple people is very difficult to judge from any outside perspective. Some people are very accepting of such a situation and others are very very uncomfortable when unable to find privacy and peace. I am of the latter and much prefer privacy, peace, and quiet over having multiple people around me. As such, I can understand the difficulty of the living conditions in Korea for Sheth, someone who is very polite, kind, and respectful, because he would be unable to avoid wasting a lot of energy trying to fit into the environment in the best possible way. For Sheth, in my opinion and from my perspective of who he is as a person, trying to live your life around other people becomes a major obstacle to daily life. Whether your actual habits and activities are changed is irrelevant, the major factor is the mental stress of trying to fit those habits and activities into a space where it is required (at least for anyone with a strong since of morals/manners/respect) to take many other individuals preferences in mind and try to ensure you are not annoying or bothering those around you. It quickly becomes something that can seriously effect you mentally and physically, as your physical state is very dependent on mental health.
So from this perspective I can absolutely understand why he would make the decision to stay in the US where he is much more comfortable and familiar with his surroundings, and as such is much better suited to help him further his skills.
We, as outsiders unaware of all that has happened and ignorant of much of the inside information, can only postulate as to whether Sheth's decision was his own or that of a discussed compromise. Because of this we are unable to really make any statements as to how this relates to Sheth's performance as a professional gamer. However, and this is a big "but", he IS a professional gamer. He is part of a team, which in essence is a business, sponsored by a company, and as such has expectations of performance. The expectations in this case were a months dedication to performing in a foreign environment with his team. This expectation was not met. As such it can very easily seem like Sheth has destroyed his credibility as a "professional" gamer and abandoned his responsibilities because of his lack of comfort with the environment. I hesitate to come to such a conclusion, personally. With the information that has been provided, the response from Sheth, and the manner in which this was delivered to the community it would seem to me to be indication that FXO has discussed the situation with Sheth in an internal environment and come to a decision that was acceptable to both sides. If that is the case, then in my opinion it's a perfectly reasonable decision and if FXO is fine with it, I'm fine with it.
All that said, I would have hoped for more. We all have high expectations of those we hold in high regard, and when they fail to meet those expectations we are naturally disappointed. This is where I am at for the moment, disappointment. I had very high hopes and wishes for FXO in the GSTL, it was a very brave decision to compete in such a difficult foreign tournament and I wanted them to succeed. I do not think Sheth's decision will undermine what FXO is trying to achieve, but it would have been something to be proud of to have competed as part of the first foreign team in the GSTL. Especially if they had found success. (And I would qualify success as simply beating any one of the teams.) This decision will unfortunately deny him, as well as ourselves - the viewers, from enjoying that distinction. I still wish for great success for the FXO team and will be extremely happy when/if they win against a team without the quality Sheth brings to the table, but it will be slightly soured by his departure. For now, though, I will look to the future and hope for great success for Sheth at MLG.
P.S. My opinion on the Korean training environment, which has been discussed some in this thread, is that, while it has proven to be successful, there is no requirement that to succeed you MUST train and live in Korea. The best of the best are there, sure, whether that is because of the training environment or the cultural expectations or some other factor we aren't away of, I don't know. I believe the best opportunity for training and success as a professional gamer will come from a team environment like what has been developed in Korea, but I do not believe it will come from the same rigorous 10 hour days that they employ. I think the best success will come when professional teams learn from athletic sports. When you look at professional teams in athletic sports you see men with families who live wherever they think is best for themselves and their families, but who travel full time with the team, training and interacting with them on a daily basis. I think this will be the ultimate goal one day for eSports teams, having the facilities to house players while they train and compete and transporting them home outside of competitions. A lofty goal to be sure, but I think the ultimate place to be for any team. I also believe that more structured regiments of training are the best way to help players improve, rather than sheer time investment. You don't just have pitchers go out and throw 300 pitches everyday to get better. They meet with coaches specialized in the task they wish to achieve and work on very specific things in very specific ways to maximize the training they undergo. I imagine this is being put to use in many cases, but I wouldn't personally know and this is just my opinion on where I think things should go.
Wow, just noticed how much text that is. O.O Apparently I had something to say. I guess I'll leave with a quote; I like quotes.
"Adversity causes some men to break; others to break records." -William Arthur Ward
Hopefully FXO and Sheth will be breaking records, not breaking themselves.
On July 11 2011 22:59 JiPrime wrote: I'll laugh so hard when Sheth gets thoroughly owned by his korea-trained teammates when practicing.
In the end, it's your choice, Sheth, but you'll gonna be left behind...
Good luck in your future endeavors.
That is going to happen for sure. I can still remember the MLG when Jinro won dominantly while all the TL members that were in Korea with him placed real high.
We can probably expect Moonan to do very well in next MLG.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Phil Kessel's team (backed by a ridiculous amount of money, which of course makes a difference) can support him in more ways than FXO could ever support Sheth from counsellors, to private hotel rooms, to just about anything he needs in order to perform at the top of his game.
Of course money makes a difference - a team like FXO does not - and can not - supply its players with the things that the Maple Leafs supply to their players - therefore the obligations (and expectations) of the players are worlds apart.
You're comparing the obligations of Sheth to a man who would earn almost $10,000 x more than Sheth. And you're comparing the expectations of FXO to a team that earns almost $1,000,000 x more than FXO. Do you think FXO's contracts and expectations are as strict as the Maple Leafs?
You should do some research into how modern athletes are supported almost from the day they show potential as a result of all the money in the industry. They are provided with physical and psychological help including how to deal with competition and competing in foreign countries, and more. Phil Kessel is a sportsmen who has been trained to compete and bring everything he's got to the table since he was a teenager. Unfortunately the ESPORTS scene is still at the stage where its really just a bunch of guys who are exceptionally good at what was just a hobby. I still can't see how you can compare the two.
It's not about the money. It's about the commitment, which he's showing he doesn't have. You have to give a little to get a little.
Risk and the reward for doing so are essential in this I think. If you compare the situation then you probably would have to conclude that Sheth is giving up more for less possible gain. Being a professional ice hockey player is more glorious and much better rewarded (money wise) then being a professional SC2 player. And as was pointed out is also a lot more comfortable. You can still question his dedication but I think it would be unfair not to take into account that e-sports is in comparison quite "small".
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
I don't care if it's hell on earth and worse than army boot camp/mandatory military service, which I highly doubt. It's two freaking weeks.
Why should Sheth care about the things you have to say about his decision? Did you do anything for the community that remotely compares to Sheth's work? How can you to judge his decision, having no pro-gamer experience at all and especialy no Korean?
There's a forum thread about it. I posted in it. You're confused.
Honestly, I'd rather see Sheth leave. He gave it a shot and did alright for his first run. He came back with experience and helped give some exposure to foreigners. However, I'd rather see that Code A spot given to someone who really wants it.
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
I don't care if it's hell on earth and worse than army boot camp/mandatory military service, which I highly doubt. It's two freaking weeks.
Why should Sheth care about the things you have to say about his decision? Did you do anything for the community that remotely compares to Sheth's work? How can you to judge his decision, having no pro-gamer experience at all and especialy no Korean?
Sheth shouldn't care, but as it is with any professional sport, people love to discuss decisions made by others. It's pretty much what being a fan is all about. Not being a pro-gamer doesn't automatically disqualify you from making comments/observations about pro-gaming.
Not to mention that quite a lot of people have experience living in a foreign country for their careers, and being one of those people, I kinda agree with the guy you're quoting. A month in a foreign country is nothing, 2 weeks is even less then nothing. Everyone sacrifices for their careers, and a month in a foreign country doesn't strike me as a very big one.
Then again, some people just can't deal with stuff outside of their comfort zone, and that's fine too, but it's a shame Sheth is leaving Korea nonetheless.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
some people like sheth are just mentally weak, nuff said.
Some people suffer from homesickness more than others, not many of you have tried living in Asia, it can be quite a culture shock. Good luck Sheth, see you at Anaheim.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
With MLG coming up at the end of the month, it's understandable that he may want to focus on that. I'm sure it would be nice to not worry about dealing with two more ridiculously long flights and two more jet-lag adjustments, especially if it means 2+ weeks in an environment that he isn't comfortable in.
I think it's pretty obvious that if you're really serious about improving as a player as fast as possible, then Korea is the place to be. So I find it disappointing that as a professional gamer Sheth wasn't able to make the most of the fantastic opportunity being afforded to him by FXO.
That being said I'm sure if Sheth was mentally able to endure staying in Korea he would have done so. Therefore I just want to wish Sheth all the best for the future.
On July 11 2011 22:29 vrok wrote: While I agree that Sheth has to do what's best for him I think leaving after two weeks is a bit ridiculous. Especially when it's supposed to be your profession. Two weeks is nothing.
Do you say that with own pro gaming / korean team house experience?
I don't care if it's hell on earth and worse than army boot camp/mandatory military service, which I highly doubt. It's two freaking weeks.
Why should Sheth care about the things you have to say about his decision? Did you do anything for the community that remotely compares to Sheth's work? How can you to judge his decision, having no pro-gamer experience at all and especialy no Korean?
There's a forum thread about it. I posted in it. You're confused.
First you were only uninformed, now you are just trolling.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
some people like sheth are just mentally weak, nuff said.
Even if one considers that "mentally weak", he still did a lot more for the community than you and me combined. That means we still should respond to his decision with respect.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
This is well said, but you cannot compare eports with normal career, but with other sports. And in other sports it takes a HUGE sacrifice to be the best that you can be and earn big bucks (for sports that allow this) or good bucks for most sports.
I read countless interview with people from different sports and they all say the same. They made sacrifices to get to where they are. There is no way around this.
Looked like sheth was doing just fine at home outside of korea, yeah his game might be better in korea but hes still pretty damn good playing from home where hes with his family and friends and a home that hes comfortable in. Most of you guys posting are either young and dont realize the value of family and friends, or never have been in a situation hes been in.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
some people like sheth are just mentally weak, nuff said.
Take that to the Sheth Hate Club forum. Wait, that doesn't exist? Weird... maybe there isn't a proper outlet for you to express these feelings then. I guess you should take them somewhere else.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
some people like sheth are just mentally weak, nuff said.
Can you not understand someone wanting to be closer to their family and friends? It would be a move so far from home he could never see his family. I can really respect how close Sheth is to his family/ friends, and completely understand why he would not want to go. Just think about the bigger picture for a minute
I understand sheths decision, I understand why some would disagree with it, What I don't understand is bashing somebody for a big life decision that you have to perspective on
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Phil Kessel's team (backed by a ridiculous amount of money, which of course makes a difference) can support him in more ways than FXO could ever support Sheth from counsellors, to private hotel rooms, to just about anything he needs in order to perform at the top of his game.
Of course money makes a difference - a team like FXO does not - and can not - supply its players with the things that the Maple Leafs supply to their players - therefore the obligations (and expectations) of the players are worlds apart.
You're comparing the obligations of Sheth to a man who would earn almost $10,000 x more than Sheth. And you're comparing the expectations of FXO to a team that earns almost $1,000,000 x more than FXO. Do you think FXO's contracts and expectations are as strict as the Maple Leafs?
You should do some research into how modern athletes are supported almost from the day they show potential as a result of all the money in the industry. They are provided with physical and psychological help including how to deal with competition and competing in foreign countries, and more. Phil Kessel is a sportsmen who has been trained to compete and bring everything he's got to the table since he was a teenager. Unfortunately the ESPORTS scene is still at the stage where its really just a bunch of guys who are exceptionally good at what was just a hobby. I still can't see how you can compare the two.
It's not about the money. It's about the commitment, which he's showing he doesn't have. You have to give a little to get a little.
Risk and the reward for doing so are essential in this I think. If you compare the situation then you probably would have to conclude that Sheth is giving up more for less possible gain. Being a professional ice hockey player is more glorious and much better rewarded (money wise) then being a professional SC2 player. And as was pointed out is also a lot more comfortable. You can still question his dedication but I think it would be unfair not to take into account that e-sports is in comparison quite "small".
We're disapointed because he knew that FXO was going to stay on Korea for at least one and a half month for GSTL, and he went to Korea anyway, and after 2 weeks he goes back to USA because he doesn't feel up to it? I mean, if he doesn't wanted to commit on this training why he let FXOBoss pay his ticket?Why he didn't stayed on USA?
lol... I really can't believe that people are so upset about this... Whoever called him a "weak minded person" is a complete idiot. He doesn't like the environment, so he left... What's so hard about understanding that.
Shame he's leaving; GSL is more interesting when there's a foreign zerg to root for. The foreign scene is doing well anyway so we'll still see plenty of him.
I couldn't do it myself either, just up and go live in Korea. I only lived outside the Anglosphere once and it probably wasn't nearly the kind of culture shock Korea would be.
To be honest i find it pathethic. Alot of time, cash, faith was put into Sheth, so he could live his dream in Korea. Two weeks later he decide to call quits, and announces it when he is back in USA, so they cant talk him back into staying, for atleast a while longer. So childish.
On July 11 2011 22:59 kimjongskills wrote: Honestly, this is kind of ridiculous. Half of the people posting in this thread are saying "he knew what he was getting in to." This is complete and total bullshit.
He knew that he would be living in this space, but he didn't know how it would really be like.
Like when you're a kid, you see that commercial on TV for a super awesome toy; you have a expectation from visual and audial representations of it, and then you get it, and it ends up being very different than you had expected. This is by far the best argument against the belief that he "knew" what he was getting in to.
So what you're saying is Sheth acted like a child?
Wow you missed the point. let me make it clear since it obviously isn't.
On July 11 2011 21:26 royal.cze wrote: always good when the players contracted by teams dictate what they want to do... even when its not in the best interest of the team... such a joke... imagine nhl players saying im not playing in winnipeg ot Calgary its not for me... to cold...
not good for the progression of esports...
Oh my... I think it will be a VERY long time before any comparison like this between the SC2 competitive scene and the multi-million (if not billion) dollar industry of the NHL is anything but nonsensical.
how is it diffrent ?
You have FXOBoss and Brian Burke but run a team and provide all the resources nessecary to thier employee / contracted players to succeed in return for their effort and paticipation in team events game / tournaments...
If Phil Kessel says hes not going to Chicago to play when its at no out of pocket expense to him and he is contracted to do so,how is it any diffrent Seth saying hes not going with his team to play in the team league.
Both decisions are identical, both players are under contract receive salaries and both thier actions are detrimental to their respective communities no ?
Just because the amount of money isn't the same doesnt mean the obligations are any diffrent or more flexible...
Seriously... the privacy thing ? What do you need privacy for as a man besides rubbing one out ?
Phil Kessel's team (backed by a ridiculous amount of money, which of course makes a difference) can support him in more ways than FXO could ever support Sheth from counsellors, to private hotel rooms, to just about anything he needs in order to perform at the top of his game.
Of course money makes a difference - a team like FXO does not - and can not - supply its players with the things that the Maple Leafs supply to their players - therefore the obligations (and expectations) of the players are worlds apart.
You're comparing the obligations of Sheth to a man who would earn almost $10,000 x more than Sheth. And you're comparing the expectations of FXO to a team that earns almost $1,000,000 x more than FXO. Do you think FXO's contracts and expectations are as strict as the Maple Leafs?
You should do some research into how modern athletes are supported almost from the day they show potential as a result of all the money in the industry. They are provided with physical and psychological help including how to deal with competition and competing in foreign countries, and more. Phil Kessel is a sportsmen who has been trained to compete and bring everything he's got to the table since he was a teenager. Unfortunately the ESPORTS scene is still at the stage where its really just a bunch of guys who are exceptionally good at what was just a hobby. I still can't see how you can compare the two.
It's not about the money. It's about the commitment, which he's showing he doesn't have. You have to give a little to get a little.
Risk and the reward for doing so are essential in this I think. If you compare the situation then you probably would have to conclude that Sheth is giving up more for less possible gain. Being a professional ice hockey player is more glorious and much better rewarded (money wise) then being a professional SC2 player. And as was pointed out is also a lot more comfortable. You can still question his dedication but I think it would be unfair not to take into account that e-sports is in comparison quite "small".
We're disapointed because he knew that FXO was going to stay on Korea for at least one and a half month for GSTL, and he went to Korea anyway, and after 2 weeks he goes back to USA because he doesn't feel up to it? I mean, if he doesn't wanted to commit on this training why he let FXOBoss pay his ticket?Why he didn't stayed on USA?
Definitely agree with this, if he commits to something (GSTL) just finish it out, I doubt they would try to force him stay in Korea longer. He just left his team hanging and he's one of the best if not the best player on his team.
I've been reading TL for the longest time but only now have I found (thanks Totalbiscuit) a thread where there's enough insanity going on for me to feel obligated to post. There's a few things I really feel are important to keep in mind when passing judgement on Sheth as a professional individual.
I've lived away from my home country/family/friends for extended periods of time during my life. In fact, I'm currently living in the UK but am not from here originally. Last time I was overseas was when I lived in Canada. My stay in Canada sucked, and I wanted to go home. My stay in the UK is going really well and I don't mind being here. There's a lot to be said about the details of any circumstance, and my situation proves - to me at least - that I shouldn't be generalizing about "staying overseas", because my various experiences of extended stays away from home have felt so different to me. So how would Sheth prepare for what it's like to be in that very situation if he's never been in it before? And even if he has, there can be enough differences between two seemingly similar situations for one to be okay and the other to be ass.
Equally, just because you've been in situations that you think mirror the one Sheth was in over in Korea, doesn't actually make yours and his comparable. I'm a militant agnostic on this one; I don't know and you don't either.
2.) Even if you find a perfectly analogous situation, it doesn't matter.
Let's say you've been in the exact same situation Sheth was. Unless you disliked it just as much as Sheth did and for the same reasons, you have no right to compare your situation to his. The only comparison that is even remotely valid is a situation where you actually wanted to quit, but decided not to - and even then you can't be sure that you wanted to quit as much as he did.
3.) Practice scenarios in Korea are not ideal even for all Koreans.
Ask yourselves this - if money and logistics weren't an issue, do you still think Korean progaming lives would still be the same? You'd have no reason to think so, as the science is in on the matter. Pro athletes are generally catered to as individuals, insofar as it is practical to do so. Coaches address them in different ways to work around/with the mental predispositions of the different athletes. Living arrangements differ. Catering is as individual as it needs to be.
The Korean model is what has been proven to work best for the biggest amount of people considering the circumstances and financial realities of E-sports. This does not mean that if there was money to do so, there wouldn't be another large group of Koreans who could all get to that level of skill by practising alone in their condominiums or whatever. It's just not feasible to accommodate everyone on their own terms - but don't think for a second that practice houses as they exist in Korea are Utopian ideals in any way, even for Koreans.
4.) This situation proves that Sheth will actually play better on his own terms.
I'm going to assume that one of the big reasons that Sheth has gotten to where he is is the fact that he's been happy getting there. If there is a situation where he could enjoy all the advantages of living in a pro house in Korea, while still remaining happy and psyched and my favourite jovial giant, then of course it'd be better for his play, and of course he'd have no problems whatsoever with signing up for it - because it wouldn't tax his endurance. But if he feels bad in his circumstance, hating his life and the game, there's no way he is going to improve. If he puts in 20 quality hours of practice every week, feeling energized and content in the process, he's going to massively out-improve his hypothetical self in a situation where he'd put 40 hours in a week while hating every minute of it.
Finally, I want you all to remember that we're talking about a grown man here. This wasn't some hissy-fitty "I want to leeeeeee-he-he-heave" situation by a homesick child. For a grown adult to react in this way he must've been really unhappy. And good on him for acting on it, that's what being a man is all about to me.
Now y'all can infer whatever the hell you want from Sheths decision to not stay in Korea. But I'm going to bet that if he's allowed to stay in his element, he's going to continue kicking ass in tournaments and placing higher than the many of the very Koreans who by some of you's logic should be unstoppable just by virtue of sniffing 10 other guys' rectums on a daily basis.
Remember, Sheth didn't have to practice in Korea to stomp Koreans. In fact, it's possible and to me quite likely that if he'd forced himself to be in Korea for this past year, in spite of his dislike of the situation over there, he never would've gotten invited to Code A in the first place. One of those little ironies I suppose.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
This is well said, but you cannot compare eports with normal career, but with other sports. And in other sports it takes a HUGE sacrifice to be the best that you can be and earn big bucks (for sports that allow this) or good bucks for most sports.
I read countless interview with people from different sports and they all say the same. They made sacrifices to get to where they are. There is no way around this.
Of course they have to make sacrifices. But I know several soccer players who don't make every sacrifice they can make. One in particular is well known to drink and smoke a lot. He still is the best player at one of the best clubs in the Netherlands. Could he be better if he didn't drink and smoke? Yes. But he's happy the way it is now and nobody feels entitled to say he must stop smoking and drinking. It's just the way it is.
I also understand your point about sports being different. Sports require a lot more sacrifices than other careers. But that doesn't mean it requires every sacrifice that one can make. And I dare say Sheth has made a lot of sacrifices already.
On July 11 2011 23:27 Benkestok wrote: To be honest i find it pathethic. Alot of time, cash, faith was put into Sheth, so he could live his dream in Korea. Two weeks later he decide to call quits, and announces it when he is back in USA, so they cant talk him back into staying, for atleast a while longer. So childish.
Curious how you know Sheths hopes and dreams. He said that it was never his intention to stay in Korea for longer than the GSTL. For one it was more economical for him to stay in the US since he would be coming back after the GSTL and also you have no right to judge Sheth on life changing decisions.
On July 11 2011 23:29 Odious_Repeater wrote: I've been reading TL for the longest time but only now have I found (thanks Totalbiscuit) a thread where there's enough insanity going on for me to feel obligated to post. There's a few things I really feel are important to keep in mind when passing judgement on Sheth as a professional individual.
I've lived away from my home country/family/friends for extended periods of time during my life. In fact, I'm currently living in the UK but am not from here originally. Last time I was overseas was when I lived in Canada. My stay in Canada sucked, and I wanted to go home. My stay in the UK is going really well and I don't mind being here. There's a lot to be said about the details of any circumstance, and my situation proves - to me at least - that I shouldn't be generalizing about "staying overseas", because my various experiences of extended stays away from home have felt so different to me. So how would Sheth prepare for what it's like to be in that very situation if he's never been in it before? And even if he has, there can be enough differences between two seemingly similar situations for one to be okay and the other to be ass.
Equally, just because you've been in situations that you think mirror the one Sheth was in over in Korea, doesn't actually make yours and his comparable. I'm a militant agnostic on this one; I don't know and you don't either.
2.) Even if you find a perfectly analogous situation, it doesn't matter.
Let's say you've been in the exact same situation Sheth was. Unless you disliked it just as much as Sheth did and for the same reasons, you have no right to compare your situation to his. The only comparison that is even remotely valid is a situation where you actually wanted to quit, but decided not to - and even then you can't be sure that you wanted to quit as much as he did.
3.) Practice scenarios in Korea are not ideal even for all Koreans.
Ask yourselves this - if money and logistics weren't an issue, do you still think Korean progaming lives would still be the same? You'd have no reason to think so, as the science is in on the matter. Pro athletes are generally catered to as individuals, insofar as it is practical to do so. Coaches address them in different ways to work around/with the mental predispositions of the different athletes. Living arrangements differ. Catering is as individual as it needs to be.
The Korean model is what has been proven to work best for the biggest amount of people considering the circumstances and financial realities of E-sports. This does not mean that if there was money to do so, there wouldn't be another large group of Koreans who could all get to that level of skill by practising alone in their condominiums or whatever. It's just not feasible to accommodate everyone on their own terms - but don't think for a second that practice houses as they exist in Korea are Utopian ideals in any way, even for Koreans.
4.) This situation proves that Sheth will actually play better on his own terms.
I'm going to assume that one of the big reasons that Sheth has gotten to where he is is the fact that he's been happy getting there. If there is a situation where he could enjoy all the advantages of living in a pro house in Korea, while still remaining happy and psyched and my favourite jovial giant, then of course it'd be better for his play, and of course he'd have no problems whatsoever with signing up for it - because it wouldn't tax his endurance. But if he feels bad in his circumstance, hating his life and the game, there's no way he is going to improve. If he puts in 20 quality hours of practice every week, feeling energized and content in the process, he's going to massively out-improve his hypothetical self in a situation where he'd put 40 hours in a week while hating every minute of it.
Finally, I want you all to remember that we're talking about a grown man here. This wasn't some hissy-fitty "I want to leeeeeee-he-he-heave" situation by a homesick child. For a grown adult to react in this way he must've been really unhappy. And good on him for acting on it, that's what being a man is all about to me.
Now y'all can infer whatever the hell you want from Sheths decision to not stay in Korea. But I'm going to bet that if he's allowed to stay in his element, he's going to continue kicking ass in tournaments and placing higher than the many of the very Koreans who by some of you's logic should be unstoppable just by virtue of sniffing 10 other guy's rectums on a daily basis.
Remember, Sheth didn't have to practice in Korea to stomp Koreans. In fact, it's possible and to me quite likely that if he'd forced himself to be in Korea for this past year, in spite of his dislike of the situation over there, he never would've gotten invited to Code A in the first place. One of those little ironies I suppose.
To be honest, the behavior of some people in this thread is pathetic.
FXO posts this in a neutral way. Sheth posts in order to explain to you, why he has decided that way. That guy even mentions that it was a dick move to do. Now just about everyone that is effected by this situation seems to have settled their shit before the info even comes out.
Then suddenly from the abyss of the internet some guys appear, who somehow seem to think Sheth has any obligations towards them, since he would be able to live "their dream" and decides not to.
Even people mentioning him as weak, just because their life seems to suck and they weren't given the chances Sheth was given.
In the end, it's his decision and no amount of whining from you guys is gonna do anything about it.
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
This is well said, but you cannot compare eports with normal career, but with other sports. And in other sports it takes a HUGE sacrifice to be the best that you can be and earn big bucks (for sports that allow this) or good bucks for most sports.
I read countless interview with people from different sports and they all say the same. They made sacrifices to get to where they are. There is no way around this.
Of course they have to make sacrifices. But I know several soccer players who don't make every sacrifice they can make. One in particular is well known to drink and smoke a lot. He still is the best player at one of the best clubs in the Netherlands. Could he be better if he didn't drink and smoke? Yes. But he's happy the way it is now and nobody feels entitled to say he must stop smoking and drinking. It's just the way it is.
I also understand your point about sports being different. Sports require a lot more sacrifices than other careers. But that doesn't mean it requires every sacrifice that one can make. And I dare say Sheth has made a lot of sacrifices already.
Maybe they don't feel entitled to say he must stop smoking and drinking because he is the best of the best in the Netherlands already?
Yes, Sheth is a professional gamer, but let's think about what that means. Being a gamer is not easy. Salaries are sparse and for many players, that have to rely on prize money of some sort if they want to hope for anything less than a very modest income.
This is how it sounds to me and this is something I can respect. Sheth feels that there is very little opportunity out in Korea for him. He does not hold much hope of placing or winning in Code S and there would be no pay out for him in the GSTL. He has come to the conclusion that the practice environment there isn't benefiting his play either. If you question that, you have to consider for a moment how much it takes out of you mentally to practice something over and over again for a very extended period of time.
If Sheth wants to be a success, if he wants to practice at any reasonable consistency, he needs to be where he is happy mentally. If that's in the US, why fault him for it? It's not like he is giving up his pro-gaming career because "he couldn't handle the work". He's staying in the US because that is where the opportunity is for him. He's staying in the US because that is where he plays best and where he practices best.
So when you say things like, "he's taking the easy road" or other such judgements, don't try to defend the ignorance of those statements. You're speaking without all of the information. Do you know for certain that he was practicing less in the US compared to his practice time in Korea? Why do you assume that he's going to sit on his ass all day and that he was too lazy to cope with the training model. There are countless other rationals for why he wasn't comfortable at the GSL Foreigner House.
It's just sad to see the state of the community when people jump on someone immediately and make gross assumptions when he is just doing what's best for his career and whats best for him emotionally and mentally.
Yes, I would have loved to see Sheth competing in the GSTL too. He is a great Zerg player and to see him combating Koreans in that format would have been exciting to watch. However, it is never good to let our own disappointment seep into harsh criticism for a man who certainly didn't deserve it.
Rofl ,anyone else have the picture in their head, once he got out of Korea, he was like NO IM NOT GOING BACK NOOOOOOOO, because they kept him hostage there, playing sc2 12 hours a day?
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
Just wanting to say that there is also people that just think that you can atleast stay away from your home 1 month and finish what you started.
Just want to know what you think about that ? Even if it is hard, what is difficult in staying ONE SINGLE MONTH to finish GSTL ?
Well, I think Sheth actually explained his reasoning in the post he made.
He wanted to go visit/stay with his family before MLG. There were no flights after finishing the GSTL. There was a flight to visit NASL. So he decided not to stay the next 14 days.
I dont think Sheth would've minded to stay the last part of a frigging month. I don't think that is his point entirely that he was somehow scared to go back to that pro house. He just knew he was going to end it after the scheduled stay and he took the chance to fly home when he was flying anyways. In a sense, by taking that decision and not moving back to korea only to quit half a month later he even saved the team some money.
On July 11 2011 23:29 Odious_Repeater wrote: I've been reading TL for the longest time but only now have I found (thanks Totalbiscuit) a thread where there's enough insanity going on for me to feel obligated to post. There's a few things I really feel are important to keep in mind when passing judgement on Sheth as a professional individual.
I've lived away from my home country/family/friends for extended periods of time during my life. In fact, I'm currently living in the UK but am not from here originally. Last time I was overseas was when I lived in Canada. My stay in Canada sucked, and I wanted to go home. My stay in the UK is going really well and I don't mind being here. There's a lot to be said about the details of any circumstance, and my situation proves - to me at least - that I shouldn't be generalizing about "staying overseas", because my various experiences of extended stays away from home have felt so different to me. So how would Sheth prepare for what it's like to be in that very situation if he's never been in it before? And even if he has, there can be enough differences between two seemingly similar situations for one to be okay and the other to be ass.
Equally, just because you've been in situations that you think mirror the one Sheth was in over in Korea, doesn't actually make yours and his comparable. I'm a militant agnostic on this one; I don't know and you don't either.
2.) Even if you find a perfectly analogous situation, it doesn't matter.
Let's say you've been in the exact same situation Sheth was. Unless you disliked it just as much as Sheth did and for the same reasons, you have no right to compare your situation to his. The only comparison that is even remotely valid is a situation where you actually wanted to quit, but decided not to - and even then you can't be sure that you wanted to quit as much as he did.
3.) Practice scenarios in Korea are not ideal even for all Koreans.
Ask yourselves this - if money and logistics weren't an issue, do you still think Korean progaming lives would still be the same? You'd have no reason to think so, as the science is in on the matter. Pro athletes are generally catered to as individuals, insofar as it is practical to do so. Coaches address them in different ways to work around/with the mental predispositions of the different athletes. Living arrangements differ. Catering is as individual as it needs to be.
The Korean model is what has been proven to work best for the biggest amount of people considering the circumstances and financial realities of E-sports. This does not mean that if there was money to do so, there wouldn't be another large group of Koreans who could all get to that level of skill by practising alone in their condominiums or whatever. It's just not feasible to accommodate everyone on their own terms - but don't think for a second that practice houses as they exist in Korea are Utopian ideals in any way, even for Koreans.
4.) This situation proves that Sheth will actually play better on his own terms.
I'm going to assume that one of the big reasons that Sheth has gotten to where he is is the fact that he's been happy getting there. If there is a situation where he could enjoy all the advantages of living in a pro house in Korea, while still remaining happy and psyched and my favourite jovial giant, then of course it'd be better for his play, and of course he'd have no problems whatsoever with signing up for it - because it wouldn't tax his endurance. But if he feels bad in his circumstance, hating his life and the game, there's no way he is going to improve. If he puts in 20 quality hours of practice every week, feeling energized and content in the process, he's going to massively out-improve his hypothetical self in a situation where he'd put 40 hours in a week while hating every minute of it.
Finally, I want you all to remember that we're talking about a grown man here. This wasn't some hissy-fitty "I want to leeeeeee-he-he-heave" situation by a homesick child. For a grown adult to react in this way he must've been really unhappy. And good on him for acting on it, that's what being a man is all about to me.
Now y'all can infer whatever the hell you want from Sheths decision to not stay in Korea. But I'm going to bet that if he's allowed to stay in his element, he's going to continue kicking ass in tournaments and placing higher than the many of the very Koreans who by some of you's logic should be unstoppable just by virtue of sniffing 10 other guys' rectums on a daily basis.
Remember, Sheth didn't have to practice in Korea to stomp Koreans. In fact, it's possible and to me quite likely that if he'd forced himself to be in Korea for this past year, in spite of his dislike of the situation over there, he never would've gotten invited to Code A in the first place. One of those little ironies I suppose.
I've spent time living abroad as well and I 100% agree with this. Well said.
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
Just wanting to say that there is also people that just think that you can atleast stay away from your home 1 month and finish what you started.
Just want to know what you think about that ? Even if it is hard, what is difficult in staying ONE SINGLE MONTH to finish GSTL ?
Well, I think Sheth actually explained his reasoning in the post he made.
He wanted to go visit/stay with his family before MLG. There were no flights after finishing the GSTL. There was a flight to visit NASL. So he decided not to stay the next 14 days.
I dont think Sheth would've minded to stay the last part of a frigging month. I don't think that is his point entirely that he was somehow scared to go back to that pro house. He just knew he was going to end it after the scheduled stay and he took the chance to fly home when he was flying anyways. In a sense, by taking that decision and not moving back to korea only to quit half a month later he even saved the team some money.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
This is well said, but you cannot compare eports with normal career, but with other sports. And in other sports it takes a HUGE sacrifice to be the best that you can be and earn big bucks (for sports that allow this) or good bucks for most sports.
I read countless interview with people from different sports and they all say the same. They made sacrifices to get to where they are. There is no way around this.
Of course they have to make sacrifices. But I know several soccer players who don't make every sacrifice they can make. One in particular is well known to drink and smoke a lot. He still is the best player at one of the best clubs in the Netherlands. Could he be better if he didn't drink and smoke? Yes. But he's happy the way it is now and nobody feels entitled to say he must stop smoking and drinking. It's just the way it is.
I also understand your point about sports being different. Sports require a lot more sacrifices than other careers. But that doesn't mean it requires every sacrifice that one can make. And I dare say Sheth has made a lot of sacrifices already.
Generally speaking tho, sports are limited by physical factors. After x hours of exercise/practice a week, more practice becomes counterproductive. This isn't the case for competitive SC2, where more time invested seems to directly relate to better play.
Just look at SC1, where in order to be a top player, you have to sacrifice everything for several years. If you're not willing to do so, you cannot become a top player.
Another way in which most sports are different is that it is possible to play in a lower league, at a lower level, where you're able to slack off a little because the competition is weaker, and still make good money. Take your example of the dutch footballer, who will probably never play against barca or Man U, let alone take an actual game off them.
SC2 does not have this tiered competition, everyone has to get past barca's and Man U's in order to make decent money, and the barca's of SC2 are the people that sacrifice everything.
It is ofcourse entirely Sheth's decision, but he is one of the more prominent/promising foreigners, and I'd hate to see him drop to a level where he's consistently competing for place 10-20 at MLG/NASL, without ever having a shot at actually winning.
Best of luck for sheth, I will miss him in the gsl! It`s unfortunate he didn`t want to stay longer, but a man must do what makes him happy, no one has the right to criticize his choices.
How would someone like that even get past college life where they aren't around their family? I just don't think its the right mindset you can't just back down the moment one hardship happens, you grow into it. Well I'm not fond of players that give up easily, or at least don't want to try for the sake of doing it. Sometimes you just got to adapt. Or play Terran.
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
Just wanting to say that there is also people that just think that you can atleast stay away from your home 1 month and finish what you started.
Just want to know what you think about that ? Even if it is hard, what is difficult in staying ONE SINGLE MONTH to finish GSTL ?
I'm in France for a month for a summer job. Even though I enjoy my job I don't really like staying here. Of course I can't just go back home because of the contract I signed when I started this job, but if I could return home, I would already be at the airport buying tickets for the next flight.
So yes, 1 month can be a lot of time for some people.
It's Sheth's choice, and his alone. Clearly his team are happy for him to return to the US, so it's really frustrating seeing people try to BM him for this. Sheth hwaiting!
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
Just wanting to say that there is also people that just think that you can atleast stay away from your home 1 month and finish what you started.
Just want to know what you think about that ? Even if it is hard, what is difficult in staying ONE SINGLE MONTH to finish GSTL ?
Well, I think Sheth actually explained his reasoning in the post he made.
He wanted to go visit/stay with his family before MLG. There were no flights after finishing the GSTL. There was a flight to visit NASL. So he decided not to stay the next 14 days.
I dont think Sheth would've minded to stay the last part of a frigging month. I don't think that is his point entirely that he was somehow scared to go back to that pro house. He just knew he was going to end it after the scheduled stay and he took the chance to fly home when he was flying anyways. In a sense, by taking that decision and not moving back to korea only to quit half a month later he even saved the team some money.
no money was saved...
That's why I wrote "in a sense" and not that it was a fact. As in you're potentially saving the money for the flight back to korea and than to MLG again. Of course you'll most likely already have paid for these flights beforehand and/or the actual tournaments pay/paid/would've paid for these flights.
On July 11 2011 21:27 Linwelin wrote: Yep, Sheth going back home is hurting ESPORTS
Sacrifice your life upon the altar of ESPORTS. GAMES FOR THE GAME GOD, NUBS FOR THE NUBTHRONE!
I know that this is meant in a sarcastic way but I think it is an open question of how much a pro player needs to sacrifice in order to be highly competitive in SC2.
I made an earlier post without realizing that Sheth had already clarified why he is going back. I read the post now and it seems indeed personal reasons are the issue. While this is perfectly understandable, it still begs the question what is the alternative.
Is it possible to compete with the korean style training by "doing it yourself" at home? I don't think that pros in the west are lazier per se then korean pros. This is often an argument which is thrown around in this forum. But tournament results so far seem to indicate that the korean training method simply works better.
To reiterate the main point of my original post. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for your career. That is not just true for esports. So I think it is reasonable to question Sheth decision and to be critical of it.
The blind hate and silliness some people are exhibiting in this thread is of course stupid and uncalled for.
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Firstly, is it possible to compete by DIY at home? Probably not, I'd say. But I doubt anyone is pretending you can here. Secondly, the discussion about Sheth's decision. Everybody here knows he can only achieve his true potential in sc2 by training in Korea(and that is apart from whether he would succeed with serious personal issues). However, does he have to sacrifice his personal life in order to further his career?
That is his own decision. And I think it's a wise decision not to. WhiteRa might be better at sc2 if he wasn't married and didn't have any sort of personal life. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be married and have any sort of personal life.
The problem is some in the community somehow feel entitled and think every gamer should sacrifice everything he has, just so they can see some better games from him. This, I feel, is ridiculous. In normal careers, you respect people for balancing their work and their personal life. I feel we should do this too in the sc2 community.
This is well said, but you cannot compare eports with normal career, but with other sports. And in other sports it takes a HUGE sacrifice to be the best that you can be and earn big bucks (for sports that allow this) or good bucks for most sports.
I read countless interview with people from different sports and they all say the same. They made sacrifices to get to where they are. There is no way around this.
Of course they have to make sacrifices. But I know several soccer players who don't make every sacrifice they can make. One in particular is well known to drink and smoke a lot. He still is the best player at one of the best clubs in the Netherlands. Could he be better if he didn't drink and smoke? Yes. But he's happy the way it is now and nobody feels entitled to say he must stop smoking and drinking. It's just the way it is.
I also understand your point about sports being different. Sports require a lot more sacrifices than other careers. But that doesn't mean it requires every sacrifice that one can make. And I dare say Sheth has made a lot of sacrifices already.
He has sacrificed more then probably 99% of the people arguing in this thread for sure. But in his post the reason for not flying back seems to boil down to the fact that FXOpen was unable to provide him with a ticket to return home before MLG to see his family.
And I think that you can be critical of that. Again... Sheth himself knows best what is good for him but let me say that I'm surprised by how calmly FXOpen seems to react to the fact that Sheth is not returning to Korea because of that.
I do not know what their agreement with GomTV is but when I saw the GSTL schedule the first time I noticed right away that FXOpen plays every week the first couple of weeks without a break in between. I'm quite sure that was done on purpose for the benefit of FXOpen.
On July 11 2011 23:59 skrzmark wrote: Sheth knocked out one of my favorite players San, and since Sheth is not using that spot that sucks to be San who now has to re-qualify.
One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
On July 12 2011 00:14 trias_e wrote: One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
I don't think people assume equal personalities but people are just stating the fact that Korea is the best place to train for SC2 and this might hurt Sheth's chances at becoming the player Huk or Jinro has become with the Korean training. If you actually purely consider SC2 and training, Korea is the best and the best style. The results show it and there's no denying it.
Also, I think most people are being supportive of Sheth's decision. He had good reasons and if his life isn't up for the task of Korea then it's his choice.
People acting up as if it was there money that was put into his stay in Korea or if it was their chance at training with the best was wasted.
Just wanting to say that there is also people that just think that you can atleast stay away from your home 1 month and finish what you started.
Just want to know what you think about that ? Even if it is hard, what is difficult in staying ONE SINGLE MONTH to finish GSTL ?
Well, I think Sheth actually explained his reasoning in the post he made.
He wanted to go visit/stay with his family before MLG. There were no flights after finishing the GSTL. There was a flight to visit NASL. So he decided not to stay the next 14 days.
I dont think Sheth would've minded to stay the last part of a frigging month. I don't think that is his point entirely that he was somehow scared to go back to that pro house. He just knew he was going to end it after the scheduled stay and he took the chance to fly home when he was flying anyways. In a sense, by taking that decision and not moving back to korea only to quit half a month later he even saved the team some money.
no money was saved...
did Sheth's ticket go to Choya? if yes, well played.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
probably the most disturbing part of the thread - what kinda internet-gaming training house doesn't have CD DRIVES on their computers?
On July 12 2011 00:14 trias_e wrote: One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
I don't think people assume equal personalities but people are just stating the fact that Korea is the best place to train for SC2 and this might hurt Sheth's chances at becoming the player Huk or Jinro has become with the Korean training. If you actually purely consider SC2 and training, Korea is the best and the best style. The results show it and there's no denying it.
Also, I think most people are being supportive of Sheth's decision. He had good reasons and if his life isn't up for the task of Korea then it's his choice.
You're somewhat missing my point though. It's possible that Sheth would be worse off if he stayed in that environment not only as a person, but also as a player. While it's true that the best players in the world thrived in that environment, it doesn't mean that every player will thrive in it. It's a fallacy to assume that everyone will become a better player in the korean training environment, just because the best players came from it.
to see his family? really, this is his job, some people make far greater sacrifices for less. Opportunities like this come up only once in your life, he was given the opportunity to train in an environment that would close to guarantee success In international tournaments. My ex's dad went to Europe for 2 years, and only came back for 2 week's a year.
Sacrifices, people, are we all just spoiled gamers that don't want to fucking work for a living? I work a full time job and am currently getting through college by doing online courses. Dedicating probably 60-70 hours a week to purely working.
And then someone bitches that they couldn't see their family for a week?...... this is your job, welcome to the real world. This worries me because I see too many people given opportunities and squandering them. If players continue to do this, and organizations don't put their foot down, then Koreans will continue to be top, and it will continue, and the disparity will get larger and larger, cause they will have practiced harder and better.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
probably the most disturbing part of the thread - what kinda internet-gaming training house doesn't have CD DRIVES on their computers?
what the hell?
I honestly cant remember the last time I used my CD/DVD drive for something I could not have downloaded. At least not in the last year
I hate to say it, but this is exactly why MC is right about Koreans.
Sheth is probably one of the top players the foreign community has to offer which could compete with the korean scene, but none of them will stay with the environment...besides Huk which is why he is doing so good!
Idra has even begun to get worse ever since he took on this new "more casual, practice is bad" outlook.
I'm not saying that for any foreigner to be as good as koreans they have to go live and practice in the environment of Korea. I'm not saying that at all. But they need to recreate the environment of practice and dedication back at home which they do not do because they did not like it in Korea.
To be as successful pro-gamers as Koreans, It will just be what they have to do.
On July 12 2011 00:31 Cold-Blood wrote: Idra has even begun to get worse ever since he took on this new "more casual, practice is bad" outlook.
Idra's situation was different altogether. He never had the benefit of a practice house full of SC2 players, he did mainly all his practice on the Korean ladder. Huk/Sheth's situations seem much more optimal.
On July 11 2011 16:33 Destiny wrote: Sheth not honoring team contract to play in GSTL?
Y U DESTROYING E-SPORTS, BRO?
Sheth, people will fault your commitment to your team, but I want to praise your commitment to family, to your fans, and to being an awesome PERSON as well as a great progamer. You are not destroying e-sports. You are improving it with honest transparency, opennes to admiting your faults, and awesome manners.
On July 12 2011 00:14 trias_e wrote: One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
I don't think people assume equal personalities but people are just stating the fact that Korea is the best place to train for SC2 and this might hurt Sheth's chances at becoming the player Huk or Jinro has become with the Korean training. If you actually purely consider SC2 and training, Korea is the best and the best style. The results show it and there's no denying it.
Also, I think most people are being supportive of Sheth's decision. He had good reasons and if his life isn't up for the task of Korea then it's his choice.
You're somewhat missing my point though. It's possible that Sheth would be worse off if he stayed in that environment not only as a person, but also as a player. While it's true that the best players in the world thrived in that environment, it doesn't mean that every player will thrive in it. It's a fallacy to assume that everyone will become a better player in the korean training environment, just because the best players came from it.
I wasn't talking about your point. I was just clarifying and seeing "other people's" views in a different light. I don't think anyone here (besides a few trolls and idiots) want Sheth to be in an environment that affects him in a negative way but still people are just mentioning that Korea is the place to be for SC2.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
probably the most disturbing part of the thread - what kinda internet-gaming training house doesn't have CD DRIVES on their computers?
what the hell?
South Korea is so ahead technologically, they don't use CD-Drives anymore... All on USB or DVD-Drives now...maybe unless you go to the PC Bangs. ....
Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
On July 11 2011 16:33 Destiny wrote: Sheth not honoring team contract to play in GSTL?
Y U DESTROYING E-SPORTS, BRO?
Sheth, people will fault your commitment to your team, but I want to praise your commitment to family, to your fans, and to being an awesome PERSON as well as a great progamer. You are not destroying e-sports. You are improving it with honest transparency, opennes to admiting your faults, and awesome manners.
Best of luck. I will always be a fan!!!!!!!!!
Lol, trolled by Destiny :D
You didn't read the thread about Destiny leaving Col?
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
probably the most disturbing part of the thread - what kinda internet-gaming training house doesn't have CD DRIVES on their computers?
what the hell?
South Korea is so ahead technologically, they don't use CD-Drives anymore... All on USB or DVD-Drives now...maybe unless you go to the PC Bangs. ....
No Optical Disk Drives AT ALL in PC Bangs where I used to live...
On July 12 2011 00:14 trias_e wrote: One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
I don't think people assume equal personalities but people are just stating the fact that Korea is the best place to train for SC2 and this might hurt Sheth's chances at becoming the player Huk or Jinro has become with the Korean training. If you actually purely consider SC2 and training, Korea is the best and the best style. The results show it and there's no denying it.
Also, I think most people are being supportive of Sheth's decision. He had good reasons and if his life isn't up for the task of Korea then it's his choice.
You're somewhat missing my point though. It's possible that Sheth would be worse off if he stayed in that environment not only as a person, but also as a player. While it's true that the best players in the world thrived in that environment, it doesn't mean that every player will thrive in it. It's a fallacy to assume that everyone will become a better player in the korean training environment, just because the best players came from it.
I wasn't talking about your point. I was just clarifying and seeing "other people's" views in a different light. I don't think anyone here (besides a few trolls and idiots) want Sheth to be in an environment that affects him in a negative way but still people are just mentioning that Korea is the place to be for SC2.
Ahh, fair enough. Korea certainly is the place to be for SC2 at the moment and as you say the results speak for themselves. But it still isn't for everyone. Another good point someone brought up earlier was that it is likely that if things were reversed and the best player houses were in the west, Koreans wouldn't necessarily be up for sacrificing their home culture, friends, and family for them either. There are additional barriers and hardships for foriegners moving to Korea than for Koreans playing in Korea, and they will affect some people more than others.
On July 11 2011 16:33 Destiny wrote: Sheth not honoring team contract to play in GSTL?
Y U DESTROYING E-SPORTS, BRO?
Sheth, people will fault your commitment to your team, but I want to praise your commitment to family, to your fans, and to being an awesome PERSON as well as a great progamer. You are not destroying e-sports. You are improving it with honest transparency, opennes to admiting your faults, and awesome manners.
Best of luck. I will always be a fan!!!!!!!!!
On July 12 2011 00:44 -Archangel- wrote: Lol, trolled by Destiny :D
You didn't read the thread about Destiny leaving Col?
Man... now I feel silly. Still, i mean what I said.
On July 12 2011 00:14 trias_e wrote: One thing that bothers me about some of the reactions in this thread is their assumption that basically everyone is the same. Everyone will benefit from the Korean training style. Everyone is best off in a small team house with no privacy.
Some people are going to be better off without it. People have different personalities (gasp!) and for some, having no privacy and living with 12 people in cramped conditions will simply not allow you to grow as a player or operate optimally as a person.
It is unfortunate that Sheth left early, as I do believe that he does have some responsibility to his team to stay, but otherwise Sheth knows what's best for Sheth and those who are bashing him over that are only showing their own immaturity and closed-mindedness.
I don't think people assume equal personalities but people are just stating the fact that Korea is the best place to train for SC2 and this might hurt Sheth's chances at becoming the player Huk or Jinro has become with the Korean training. If you actually purely consider SC2 and training, Korea is the best and the best style. The results show it and there's no denying it.
Also, I think most people are being supportive of Sheth's decision. He had good reasons and if his life isn't up for the task of Korea then it's his choice.
You're somewhat missing my point though. It's possible that Sheth would be worse off if he stayed in that environment not only as a person, but also as a player. While it's true that the best players in the world thrived in that environment, it doesn't mean that every player will thrive in it. It's a fallacy to assume that everyone will become a better player in the korean training environment, just because the best players came from it.
I wasn't talking about your point. I was just clarifying and seeing "other people's" views in a different light. I don't think anyone here (besides a few trolls and idiots) want Sheth to be in an environment that affects him in a negative way but still people are just mentioning that Korea is the place to be for SC2.
Ahh, fair enough. Korea certainly is the place to be for SC2 at the moment and as you say the results speak for themselves. But it still isn't for everyone. Another good point someone brought up earlier was that it is likely that if things were reversed and the best player houses were in the west, Koreans wouldn't necessarily be up for sacrificing their home culture, friends, and family for them either. There are additional barriers and hardships for foriegners moving to Korea than for Koreans playing in Korea, and they will affect some people more than others.
You're right. It's all up to the individual and their hunger for success in one way or another. I hope Sheth continues to be successful but it might be a different type of success than he would have been chasing in Korea. If the situation was reversed, I don't think many Koreans would flock to the west in gaming houses. You can kind of see it with Counter-strike and how Europe (the focal point of CS) expanded counter-strike with team houses and such while Asia just didn't buy into it.
this is why i wish everyone had to serve in the military like in Korea, get away from their families so they can learn to be independent and survive outside of their comfort zone... learning to succeed outside of your comfort zone is probably the best lesson the military has taught me, and im not trolling - seriously, people need to be challenged.. I feel like Sheth's been a bit too spoiled or something if he couldn't handle a few months in another country with a bunch of teammates and the internet where he can actually communicate with his family just fine...
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
probably the most disturbing part of the thread - what kinda internet-gaming training house doesn't have CD DRIVES on their computers?
what the hell?
South Korea is so ahead technologically, they don't use CD-Drives anymore... All on USB or DVD-Drives now...maybe unless you go to the PC Bangs. ....
No Optical Disk Drives AT ALL in PC Bangs where I used to live...
It's all about Ghost files there.
yea...basically...hahaha but Korea is way past CD-Drives...unless you go to e-mart or something and buy it on your own and install it on your own..lot of times people will have one cd-drive and pass it around computers whenever it is needed..because it's so rare hahaha
Hey Sheth! it's really our fault for providing such shitty practice on the NA ladder; so shitty that you would feel compelled to fly all the way out to Korea in order to find better competition. Too bad it didn't work out, glad to have you back.
On July 12 2011 00:52 seoul_kiM wrote: yea...basically...hahaha but Korea is way past CD-Drives...unless you go to e-mart or something and buy it on your own and install it on your own..lot of times people will have one cd-drive and pass it around computers whenever it is needed..because it's so rare hahaha
So basically no-one will ever buy a retail version of the SC2. Only digital version.
I respect Sheth's decision but its a little disheartening. I must say it puts him off my radar of pro players to follow, at least not now when there is so much competition with so many foreigners in Korea.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
Still he came farther than most of us.
By the way, how much do you know about the sacrificed he already made? It is easy to sit in a chair and demand sacrifices from someone. He owes us nothing. We owe him a lot, for his streaming, for his TL postings, for everything he has done already, including his BO3 versus San. He was able to beat a korean of that level, showing us games one can learn so much from. Impressive.
Sheth chose the optimal way for him to practice. He would not be able to deliver results in that environmental, so he made the decision to continue practice in an environment where he can practice.
Instead of advise him to make sacrifices, how about to just thank him, wish him luck for his further career and go study his games to improve your zerg play?
On July 12 2011 00:51 UNeeK wrote: this is why i wish everyone had to serve in the military like in Korea, get away from their families so they can learn to be independent and survive outside of their comfort zone... learning to succeed outside of your comfort zone is probably the best lesson the military has taught me, and im not trolling - seriously, people need to be challenged.. I feel like Sheth's been a bit too spoiled or something if he couldn't handle a few months in another country with a bunch of teammates and the internet where he can actually communicate with his family just fine...
It's disrespectful to think in that way because while Koreans are proud of their military service it's still extremely sad to see sons going off for service every year for their families. Koreans have to do this to be ready to defend their nations, they don't do this because they want to experience independence for themselves. Get it right. I have an uncle who died while serving their military service in Korea and I never got to meet him. My entire family in the United States and in Korea are worried sick about two of my cousins who are currently serving because of the recent rise of tensions. Don't say things like (I wish everyone blah blah blah) because nothing is fit for everyone. If Sheth couldn't handle being in a foreign environment where everything is different and had a hard time adjusting, it's his own choice. People can challenge themselves in other ways and you did it through the military and others do it through things like Gaming and such. Many Koreans are making their first trips outside of Korea for foreign tournaments and I guarantee even those who served in the military would be uncomfortable and would find it hard to adjust even to an open society like the United States. It's different from seeing and interacting with your family and Skyping with them. I was studying abroad in Europe for a year and at times was extremely home-sick and also my dad is in Korea for half the year at a time so I know how it feels to actually be with someone and to just skype with them. Your post comes off a bit ignorant in my opinion.
On July 12 2011 00:52 seoul_kiM wrote: yea...basically...hahaha but Korea is way past CD-Drives...unless you go to e-mart or something and buy it on your own and install it on your own..lot of times people will have one cd-drive and pass it around computers whenever it is needed..because it's so rare hahaha
So basically no-one will ever buy a retail version of the SC2. Only digital version.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
I think it's safe to assume not every professional gamer wants to be the best? It's like expecting everyone who works at a pharmaceutical company to actively seek a cure for cancer.
If you're making a good living enjoying what you do, with a big fan base and contribution to the community, it's not unreasonable not to want to sour it in living conditions you're uncomfortable with, with practice regiments you're not on board with.
On July 11 2011 15:58 ZidaneTribal wrote: a lot of people just dont want to change their life style, especially since now we have a lot of sc2 tournys in NA scene
But unless you switch to a harcore (Korean) practice routine, you aren't going to win them. Too bad, I think Sheth could've improved a lot there. As pretty much every other player out there. Work ethic, yo.
On July 12 2011 00:51 UNeeK wrote: this is why i wish everyone had to serve in the military like in Korea, get away from their families so they can learn to be independent and survive outside of their comfort zone... learning to succeed outside of your comfort zone is probably the best lesson the military has taught me, and im not trolling - seriously, people need to be challenged.. I feel like Sheth's been a bit too spoiled or something if he couldn't handle a few months in another country with a bunch of teammates and the internet where he can actually communicate with his family just fine...
I have to agree with this post. Also i would argue that this isn't a personal decision at all, it was a personal decision when he decided to sign his name on a contract, it became a business decision when the ink dried. Professionally this is inexcusable, imo. You knew exactly what you were in store for and if you did not then im afraid that is your own fault. Either way the consequences of your actions need to be seen through. I don't want to pretend to know how Sheth or anyone else was raised up but as i was always taught when you make a commitment you see it through. Your 'comfort' or personal needs cease to matter (barring the most extreme of cases i.e. family illness). If it was the case that Sheth was mislead in some way i could see grounds for breaking the terms of the agreement but somehow i find this very unlikely. Sheth is extremely likable and i wish him nothing but success but im extremely disappointed in his choice.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
Still he came farther than most of us.
By the way, how much do you know about the sacrificed he already made? It is easy to sit in a chair and demand sacrifices from someone. He owes us nothing. We owe him a lot, for his streaming, for his TL postings, for everything he has done already, including his BO3 versus San. He was able to beat a korean of that level, showing us games one can learn so much from. Impressive.
Sheth chose the optimal way for him to practice. He would not be able to deliver results in that environmental, so he made the decision to continue practice in an environment where he can practice.
I demand nothing of anyone. What Sheth does is Sheth's choice. I am merely stating a reality. I do think it is disappointing that he has left his team high and dry because he wasn't properly able to evaluate his tendencies before making a commitment. I am still a fan, I just hope this serves as an example for others heading to Korea to a team house that they need to think long and hard about whether they can truly be dedicated enough to make things happen. I think that if Sheth toughed it out for another couple months he'd start to get used to it and even enjoy it. Making a big move like this is never fun, but you learn to cope, and then you learn to have fun.
Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
I think it is a bit weird that so many think "it`s his decision" is a good enough justification to support any choice someone makes. I think we can all agree that even though someone does something and think it is the right choice when they do so, it is not neccessarily the best thing for them in the long run. We do not make perfect decisions all the time.
Whether Sheth did the right thing or not is impossible to say, but I think it is sort of weak to just say that since he decided to go home, it obviously has to be the best decision since that was what he decided for and since it mainly impacts himself. That is like saying noone ever can be persuaded into changing their opinion and that that never can have a positive outcome.
Although I felt it was necessary for me to announce before our fOu match, that sheth would not be there. I didn't expect the responses posted in this forum. I am not saying people are right or wrong in how they are thinking.
However, there are alot of false facts in this thread. Weird perspectives about professionalism and strange insights into a country that people probably know little about.
Perhaps I shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag, but I kind of had to avoid the "Wheres sheth" questions by posting this.
Guys chill out. I don't even think that this thread requires much of a response.
I don't really hate Sheth for doing this. What I hate is everytime the foreigners send someone to Korea, we have our hope up, and we got shot down every time. Sheth is just one of many so-called progamers that can't get serious enough to sacrifice for at least 1 month.
Note to FXO: prepare a CD-ROM in FXO house in Malaysia, or Sheth won't come.
his reasons are completely valid i dont think anyone can blame him for this decision. if anything the most you can be is dissapointed that he wont get the same kind of training. he still deserves the same amount of respect that he got 1 week ago for being an amazing player and an amazing person.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
I think it has more to do with us being disappointed with this. Sheth was getting really good lately and going to Korea to train might have made him into the next Idra. So it is disappointing to see him throw this away. And some people display their disappointment in a more rough manner.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
So Sheth please enlighten up as to what you have learned from your time in Korea.
Will you be putting this into your usual practice schedule?
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
Yeah cause everyone is filled with positive energy and comments. Sorry but many people like to be real and honest. Those who are so kind and nice take this as an insult. Get thicker skins and take it as a comment and nothing more.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
Still he came farther than most of us.
By the way, how much do you know about the sacrificed he already made? It is easy to sit in a chair and demand sacrifices from someone. He owes us nothing. We owe him a lot, for his streaming, for his TL postings, for everything he has done already, including his BO3 versus San. He was able to beat a korean of that level, showing us games one can learn so much from. Impressive.
Sheth chose the optimal way for him to practice. He would not be able to deliver results in that environmental, so he made the decision to continue practice in an environment where he can practice.
Instead of advise him to make sacrifices, how about to just thank him, wish him luck for his further career and go study his games to improve your zerg play?
We paid for our GSL subscriptions. His flight, stay and appearance in the league was paid for. He received a Code A seed without qualifying. Hell, I haven't even seen his games there, only his first GSTL appearance. How about what he owes? Sure, maybe not to us, but to the GSL, and to his team?
I'm pretty sure no one is demanding that he sacrifices himself and his life in order to compete in Starcraft, but people who thought he was a professional gamer with untapped potential will obviously be disappointed.
And about the last paragraph, which I didn't bold, there's no way you can tell that after two weeks. No way. At all.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
How is a couple of weeks or maybe even months giving up your whole life? People go 6 months to a year abroad to study, to train for their job. This is no different.
It's of course Sheths own choice, the only reason why so many people have an opinion on it is because he is in the spotlight on these forums. But in the end he did bail on a training/promo trip for his work. If FXO is really his employer they won't be happy.
I'm curious if this affects the whole Malaysia thing though.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
Yeah cause everyone is filled with positive energy and comments. Sorry but many people like to be real and honest. Those who are so kind and nice take this as an insult. Get thicker skins and take it as a comment and nothing more.
If you don't have anything positive to add why do you even speak? Just throwing shit around for the hell of it seems rather pointless. None of us know enough about the situation that Sheth described to judge if it was a good or bad thing. That's entirely up to him. Complaining about other people's lives which you know nothing about and then calling it "being honest" is just stupid. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion but if nothing good comes out of expressing it not commenting at all might be a better choice. Hate won't help anyone progress.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
How is a couple of weeks or maybe even months giving up your whole life? People go 6 months to a year abroad to study, to train for their job. This is no different.
What? This is no different? Are you dumb? This is completely different. When you go abroad to study for 6 months you do it to immerse yourself in a culture that's different from yours. You'll most likely learn the same shit in the class you're taking so that is irrelevant. It's all about the culture.
Going abroad for 6 months for job training is totally different than going to Korea to play Starcraft. For one, your job isn't as fucking volatile. To win SC2 tournaments you have to be at your best every hour you play & then there's still no guarantee you will win any money to support yourself. To work your job, you just have to show up and you get paid.
Going abroad isn't for Sheth. He's a cool guy and you all really need to fuck off. He doesn't owe you anything. Quit judging him on this one decision.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
How is a couple of weeks or maybe even months giving up your whole life? People go 6 months to a year abroad to study, to train for their job. This is no different.
What? This is no different? Are you dumb?
I wish I didn't read past that testament to your intelligence. 'You just show up and get paid durr' Ok man.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
How is a couple of weeks or maybe even months giving up your whole life? People go 6 months to a year abroad to study, to train for their job. This is no different.
What? This is no different? Are you dumb?
I wish I didn't read past that testament to your intelligence. 'You just show up and get paid durr' Ok man.
That is how most of the jobs in today's society are. There's very little, if any, critical thinking involved in jobs. Most jobs are just "follow these instructions and you'll be done in a few hours!" or "browse the internet all day!" I take it you haven't gotten past college yet, have you?
Edit - It's always fun to insult people and completely ignore everything they said because you know it's right.
back then, when going pro to korea was hard as fuck, foreigners would sweat, and struggle, and keep practicing, eager for the next courage league which was as hard to win as fucking Code A in sc2 or for an appearance in any league if they were lucky enough, they wouldnt give up so easily as kids do today.
today so many sponsors, so many global tournaments make foreigners "lazy", and thats why koreans will keep dominating at least until sc3, living in another country with another culture, far from friends and family is not for everybody, but if you can't be determined on that regard, you would better stop playing for money, starcraft is not for pussies, it's for hardworkers.
but I guess we can't be too harsh on them, since going to korea now is seen as a trip with friends to play some videogame and win some bucks, rather than a chance to excel at something you are suposed to love.
I feel like Sheth is catching more crap than he would have normally for this decision because of how hot of a topic the Korean vs the World is right now. Over the past few weeks this has been in so many threads following Korean domination in NA events, Huk's winning and his "Korean-ness". It seems as though the community has concluded that the strict Korean training style is needed to compete at the highest level. Had this been a few months ago I don't think we'd be as critical of his decision because this conclusion was in our minds but not as concrete as it is now. Sheth isn't the first person to leave Korea but I don't recall the others getting critisized as badly and I'd argue this was because we did not realize the beast that is the Korean way of training. Either way, though, if he was going to practice like a Korean in Korea there's no doubt he'd improve greatly. However! I am confident he can train hard in NA and hopefully be a pioneer for the emergence of an NA scene that practices hard.
Sheth is soooo manner. His stream is like listening to a flowing river in a meadow. Let's not be too harsh.
Edit: I'd like to add that when I say "the emergence of an NA scene that practices hard" I am not knocking how hard the NA players practices now. Instead, I think it is necessary for them and the teams to adopt strict practicing schedules and to move into pro houses...
FXO Boss is a business guy who knows the time (befor the other guy) and how to word a message to let others understand it (short tight sentences without positive words). These kind of statements are usual when the business partners have a difficult time and are very likely to seperate ways. You should not be surprised if either of these both ends the relationship.
On July 11 2011 17:39 sickle wrote: And this is why, unfortunately, the foreign scene will never be as good as the Korean. The captain of the team deserts them, and the majority of the community is saying that he did the right thing. It's pretty embarrassing, especially considering many many others would love to have such an opportunity.
yes, agree at least finnish your contract and come back home. many ppl wants this opportunity.
On July 11 2011 18:07 JYN wrote: This is very disappointing news. He is not only forgoing a rare opportunity to train with his team in Korea, but he is also abandoning his team in the GSTL as well as giving up his spot in the GSL Code A. Not to mention he is also bailing as the team's ace player and the team's best zerg coach/training partner.
Korea might be a difficult experience, but guess what?, Sheth's full time job is to be a professional gamer representing FXO. I am sure many of us have had to make sacrifices on our jobs and progaming should be no exception, especially if we want e-sports to be taken more seriously. I am sure if any of us pulled this on our jobs, we'd be cleaning our desks the very next day. Two weeks is certainly not enough and I can say that is was a disrespectful move to bail on the team especially after the organization flew him back to the US for NASL and I am sure booked a return ticket for him for Korea. Not many players have the privilege for that type of financial backing and I am sure none of this was a cheap investment.
I apologize for sounding a bit harsh in advance if Sheth had more severe reasons to not return to Korea, but the biggest loser is certainly the fans. Maybe Sheth isn't someone I should be rooting for. Looking forward to Naniwa, Thorzain, Fenix, and Sase in August.
I respect Sheth's decsion. It sort of put's perspective on what Huk and Jinro are doing. They are taking it very seriously. If I was striving to be a pro sc2 gamer I'd try and stay in south korea as long as possible. For all we know SC2 could last as long as brood war. There are some tournys to be won now but what about what the future will bring? Even more prize money. The people who get that 2-3 years + to come will be the people who have practiced the most.
Reminds me of the begining of NASL with Tastless saying he dropped out of college broke up with his g/f then moved to south korea to follow his dream. Look at Tasteless now! I'm sure Tasteless is very proud of his decsion.
Luckily there is a big scene in NA, maybe some team houses can be put up in America? I think an important part of team houses though is to have a coach. It'd be hard to practice all day with a bunch of friends with no one to really push you.
I wish all the best of luck to Sheth! Hopefully he will keep improving cause he is so nice and I love nice people!!!
Poor San. A foreigner gets a freebie into Code A, knocks him to Code B, then said foreigner decides he'd rather not stay in Korea even to finish up the GSTL season.
That said, all right, Sheth's a cool dude, and it's his decision. I'll just let the San fan in me cry a few bitter tears.
On July 12 2011 01:08 SpiritAshura wrote: Wow Team Liquid, just wow. I can't believe so many people just write Sheth off because he doesn't want to give up his whole life for SC2. The lack of respect for his decision is pathetic imo. Good luck to Sheth and hopefully he is happier back in Amurrriccaaaa.
How is a couple of weeks or maybe even months giving up your whole life? People go 6 months to a year abroad to study, to train for their job. This is no different.
What? This is no different? Are you dumb?
I wish I didn't read past that testament to your intelligence. 'You just show up and get paid durr' Ok man.
That is how most of the jobs in today's society are. There's very little, if any, critical thinking involved in jobs. Most jobs are just "follow these instructions and you'll be done in a few hours!" or "browse the internet all day!" I take it you haven't gotten past college yet, have you?
Edit - It's always fun to insult people and completely ignore everything they said because you know it's right.
The fuck are you talking about, lol. Just because your job is brainless doesn't mean you should generalize everyone else's. His point is perfectly valid - people are talking about going to Korea for any period of time as 'giving up your life.' I feel sorry for people with lives like that. Visiting and living in other places, and leaving your parents' home IS life.
well that's a shame, he was doing so well in Korea having a relatively strong showing in GSL Code A (unfortunately he got put against Puzzle) and he was most likely the strongest player in the GSTL for them =/
Hmm he must have some extremely good reasons for not going back other than "O it wasn't for me". OK, you didn't like it, but you are one of the best players for your team who is getting eaten alive at the moment. Looks a like a massive cop out with the information we have been given.
I should make it clear that what eats me up is him ditching his team mates as their ace when FXO gives him financial assistance that other (better?) foreigners can only dream of. If he was over there playing by himself I'd be much more understanding. No longer a fan, sorry.
On July 12 2011 00:25 r_con wrote: to see his family? really, this is his job, some people make far greater sacrifices for less. Opportunities like this come up only once in your life, he was given the opportunity to train in an environment that would close to guarantee success In international tournaments. My ex's dad went to Europe for 2 years, and only came back for 2 week's a year.
Sacrifices, people, are we all just spoiled gamers that don't want to fucking work for a living? I work a full time job and am currently getting through college by doing online courses. Dedicating probably 60-70 hours a week to purely working.
And then someone bitches that they couldn't see their family for a week?...... this is your job, welcome to the real world. This worries me because I see too many people given opportunities and squandering them. If players continue to do this, and organizations don't put their foot down, then Koreans will continue to be top, and it will continue, and the disparity will get larger and larger, cause they will have practiced harder and better.
Pretty much....Sheth is a nice guy but people forget that sc2 is his job. People make sacrifices for their job all the time a lot bigger than getting free flights and board to a different country to be able to train. I don't see how quitting after 2 weeks is something that can really be seen in a positive light especially when the reasons are pretty silly. I mean did Sheth really expect to be able to get used to a different country and living environment in 2 WEEKS? It seems like he just went into this with the totally wrong mindset and didn't even give it a chance to pan out...I mean really the whole spiel about the rosetta stone is just silly and doesn't even make any sense -_-. Maybe I'm being a little harsh but it just seems like he wasted time for nothing when many other players would've loved an opportunity like this.
OK..... I like Sheth and used to watch his steam very often. Let me just get that out there.
There seem to be 2 types of people here: ones who embraces Seth back and his decision and ones who criticizes his decion. There is no reason for anyone to convince the opposite group because everyone just feels different about his choice and there is right or wrong.
Having said that, here's my thought. Regardless which group of people you are in, we all agree that E-sports is getting bigger and we would like others to take this E-sports more seriously. Progamer is a person who plays a video/computer game competitvely for living. This type of job is far more different than just working in a cubicle in the office.
This is what Sheth said pretty much: I don't have really good reasons why I'm not returning to Korea. I just don't want to go back . Sheth seems to be missing following qualities as a progamer:
1.Passion to get better every day: practicing in Korea will get you better and some progamer want to come to Korea but they just don't have the finance to do it. It's an opportunity.
2.dedication to your team and teamates: What are you doing to your teamates- most of them are pretty much under the same condition as you were except you got thorough code a qualification. The person with most reason to stay in Korea from Fxo decides to leave for personal discomforts.....
3. love for the game and your fans: There are your fans who cheer and support upon your Korea trip. Watching you play on Gomtv at 3-5 am.... Instead, he rather sits at home, does streaming with commercials, and do some coaching. He is not a fighter. He just wants to do just enough to get by as a progamer.
I know and we all agree that he is a nice guy. I'm not arguing that nor his skills but mentally he is as bad as it gets for a progamer.
he must have a reason(s) that we don't know about. its very unprofessional to not see out the 3 months of GSTL. whoever paid for GSTL to watch sheth has been jacked.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
Still he came farther than most of us.
By the way, how much do you know about the sacrificed he already made? It is easy to sit in a chair and demand sacrifices from someone. He owes us nothing. We owe him a lot, for his streaming, for his TL postings, for everything he has done already, including his BO3 versus San. He was able to beat a korean of that level, showing us games one can learn so much from. Impressive.
Sheth chose the optimal way for him to practice. He would not be able to deliver results in that environmental, so he made the decision to continue practice in an environment where he can practice.
I demand nothing of anyone. What Sheth does is Sheth's choice. I am merely stating a reality.
Every person has a different view on the reality.
On July 12 2011 01:04 puzzl wrote:I do think it is disappointing that he has left his team high and dry because he wasn't properly able to evaluate his tendencies before making a commitment.
He already was in Korea and did win some games there. He did his part. We hoped for more, true. Still no reason to criticize lack of commitment. So far as he went, he committed most of his life to the game and the team.
On July 12 2011 01:13 canikizu wrote: I don't really hate Sheth for doing this. What I hate is everytime the foreigners send someone to Korea, we have our hope up, and we got shot down every time. Sheth is just one of many so-called progamers that can't get serious enough to sacrifice for at least 1 month.
Note to FXO: prepare a CD-ROM in FXO house in Malaysia, or Sheth won't come.
QFT. Sheth could have been the next jinro/huk. Lets be frank, when he defeated san, I personally thought he could go the whole way. For someone who had only just arrived in korea, taking out one of the better protoss in the GSL, now thats an incredible feat, losing only to the code A finalist.
On July 12 2011 01:12 FXOpen wrote: Although I felt it was necessary for me to announce before our fOu match, that sheth would not be there. I didn't expect the responses posted in this forum. I am not saying people are right or wrong in how they are thinking.
However, there are alot of false facts in this thread. Weird perspectives about professionalism and strange insights into a country that people probably know little about.
Perhaps I shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag, but I kind of had to avoid the "Wheres sheth" questions by posting this.
Guys chill out. I don't even think that this thread requires much of a response.
Another way to view this is that due to sheth's "short success" during his showings in the GSL, he did very good for the circumstances he was under and people start to "pin expectations" on him.
Maybe not many people saw the previous post about sheth's forfeiting the wildcard tournament (only 5 pages, this one's already 20++) and about his intentions to stay for about only a month. For some reason your post implies that this decision of sheth should be of no surprise to everyone, but judging from the amount of responses here, it certainly is.
I might be wrong on this, but if sheth isnt as famous as i think he is, we wouldnt get all these varying responses from people. You cant get more known/famous attracting only diehard fanboys (no offence) without attract the other wider spectrum of people on a bell curve.
On July 12 2011 02:46 bovi wrote: he must have a reason(s) that we don't know about. its very unprofessional to not see out the 3 months of GSTL. whoever paid for GSTL to watch sheth has been jacked.
He delivered some games and I am happy about that. Would I like to see more of him in the GSTL or even GSL? Fuck yes! I purchased the GSL July ticket partly because of my hope to see Sheth running deep into Code-A. Then he lost in RO16 and forfeits the match for the free Code-S spot.
I still support any of his decisions, even if I see less GS(T)L games of him. I hoped for more; but to be honest, never truly expected that he can beat San in the GSL. Yet he did.
On July 12 2011 01:13 canikizu wrote: I don't really hate Sheth for doing this. What I hate is everytime the foreigners send someone to Korea, we have our hope up, and we got shot down every time. Sheth is just one of many so-called progamers that can't get serious enough to sacrifice for at least 1 month.
Note to FXO: prepare a CD-ROM in FXO house in Malaysia, or Sheth won't come.
QFT. Sheth could have been the next jinro/huk. Lets be frank, when he defeated san, I personally thought he could go the whole way. For someone who had only just arrived in korea, taking out one of the better protoss in the GSL, now thats an incredible feat, losing only to the code A finalist.
On July 12 2011 01:12 FXOpen wrote: Although I felt it was necessary for me to announce before our fOu match, that sheth would not be there. I didn't expect the responses posted in this forum. I am not saying people are right or wrong in how they are thinking.
However, there are alot of false facts in this thread. Weird perspectives about professionalism and strange insights into a country that people probably know little about.
Perhaps I shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag, but I kind of had to avoid the "Wheres sheth" questions by posting this.
Guys chill out. I don't even think that this thread requires much of a response.
Another way to view this is that due to sheth's "short success" during his showings in the GSL, he did very good for the circumstances he was under and people start to "pin expectations" on him.
Maybe not many people saw the previous post about sheth's forfeiting the wildcard tournament (only 5 pages, this one's already 20++) and about his intentions to stay for about only a month. For some reason your post implies that this decision of sheth should be of no surprise to everyone, but judging from the amount of responses here, it certainly is.
I might be wrong on this, but if sheth isnt as famous as i think he is, we wouldnt get all these varying responses from people. You cant get more known/famous attracting only diehard fanboys (no offence) without attract the other wider spectrum of people on a bell curve.
No, you misinterpret me. I simply stated that it should be a neutral thing. It was just an advisory to the public. Same as if Beckham werent attending a friendly match, or something like that.
On July 12 2011 00:44 puzzl wrote: Sorry, Sheth, if you want to compete at the highest level, you are going to have to make some sacrifices, that is the simple truth. No one ever became #1 by running away from difficult situations. We know how hard it must be getting used to living in a team house, but this is a disappointing turn of events.
To me, this read as nothing but a string of petty excuses with one core point—living in a pro-gamer house isn't for you. Then, maybe pro-gaming isn't for you either. It is no secret that the Koreans are now a presence on the global scene, and it order to produce results you are going to have to train like they do. You have *so much* potential as a player, but I'm afraid if you run away from these opportunities then you will never realize it.
Still he came farther than most of us.
By the way, how much do you know about the sacrificed he already made? It is easy to sit in a chair and demand sacrifices from someone. He owes us nothing. We owe him a lot, for his streaming, for his TL postings, for everything he has done already, including his BO3 versus San. He was able to beat a korean of that level, showing us games one can learn so much from. Impressive.
Sheth chose the optimal way for him to practice. He would not be able to deliver results in that environmental, so he made the decision to continue practice in an environment where he can practice.
I demand nothing of anyone. What Sheth does is Sheth's choice. I am merely stating a reality.
On July 12 2011 01:04 puzzl wrote:I do think it is disappointing that he has left his team high and dry because he wasn't properly able to evaluate his tendencies before making a commitment.
He already was in Korea and did win some games there. He did his part. We hoped for more, true. Still no reason to criticize lack of commitment. So far as he went, he committed most of his life to the game and the team.
He didn't do his part, he peace'd on his team. He. Abandoned. His. Team. Later dudes gotta hang out with mommy and daddy.
If Jinro plays 100 more games in Korea and loses every single one of him he'd still be 100x more successful in my eyes.
In fact I'd rather just see Sheth get trashed in Code A and team league but still try his hardest than bail on his team.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
............ ........heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
No worries man , we totally understand , I'd feel the same way! You can represent the US in the US and do your damn thing better if your cool and calm.
On July 12 2011 01:13 canikizu wrote: I don't really hate Sheth for doing this. What I hate is everytime the foreigners send someone to Korea, we have our hope up, and we got shot down every time. Sheth is just one of many so-called progamers that can't get serious enough to sacrifice for at least 1 month.
Note to FXO: prepare a CD-ROM in FXO house in Malaysia, or Sheth won't come.
QFT. Sheth could have been the next jinro/huk. Lets be frank, when he defeated san, I personally thought he could go the whole way. For someone who had only just arrived in korea, taking out one of the better protoss in the GSL, now thats an incredible feat, losing only to the code A finalist.
On July 12 2011 01:12 FXOpen wrote: Although I felt it was necessary for me to announce before our fOu match, that sheth would not be there. I didn't expect the responses posted in this forum. I am not saying people are right or wrong in how they are thinking.
However, there are alot of false facts in this thread. Weird perspectives about professionalism and strange insights into a country that people probably know little about.
Perhaps I shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag, but I kind of had to avoid the "Wheres sheth" questions by posting this.
Guys chill out. I don't even think that this thread requires much of a response.
Another way to view this is that due to sheth's "short success" during his showings in the GSL, he did very good for the circumstances he was under and people start to "pin expectations" on him.
Maybe not many people saw the previous post about sheth's forfeiting the wildcard tournament (only 5 pages, this one's already 20++) and about his intentions to stay for about only a month. For some reason your post implies that this decision of sheth should be of no surprise to everyone, but judging from the amount of responses here, it certainly is.
I might be wrong on this, but if sheth isnt as famous as i think he is, we wouldnt get all these varying responses from people. You cant get more known/famous attracting only diehard fanboys (no offence) without attract the other wider spectrum of people on a bell curve.
No, you misinterpret me. I simply stated that it should be a neutral thing. It was just an advisory to the public. Same as if Beckham werent attending a friendly match, or something like that.
Well i guess this advisory is getting a bit out of hand then. It seems that its really hard to maintain neutrality (much less common sense, manners and decency!) on a matter that will involve "fans" emotionally one way or another.
On July 12 2011 01:13 canikizu wrote: I don't really hate Sheth for doing this. What I hate is everytime the foreigners send someone to Korea, we have our hope up, and we got shot down every time. Sheth is just one of many so-called progamers that can't get serious enough to sacrifice for at least 1 month.
Note to FXO: prepare a CD-ROM in FXO house in Malaysia, or Sheth won't come.
QFT. Sheth could have been the next jinro/huk. Lets be frank, when he defeated san, I personally thought he could go the whole way. For someone who had only just arrived in korea, taking out one of the better protoss in the GSL, now thats an incredible feat, losing only to the code A finalist.
On July 12 2011 01:12 FXOpen wrote: Although I felt it was necessary for me to announce before our fOu match, that sheth would not be there. I didn't expect the responses posted in this forum. I am not saying people are right or wrong in how they are thinking.
However, there are alot of false facts in this thread. Weird perspectives about professionalism and strange insights into a country that people probably know little about.
Perhaps I shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag, but I kind of had to avoid the "Wheres sheth" questions by posting this.
Guys chill out. I don't even think that this thread requires much of a response.
Another way to view this is that due to sheth's "short success" during his showings in the GSL, he did very good for the circumstances he was under and people start to "pin expectations" on him.
Maybe not many people saw the previous post about sheth's forfeiting the wildcard tournament (only 5 pages, this one's already 20++) and about his intentions to stay for about only a month. For some reason your post implies that this decision of sheth should be of no surprise to everyone, but judging from the amount of responses here, it certainly is.
I might be wrong on this, but if sheth isnt as famous as i think he is, we wouldnt get all these varying responses from people. You cant get more known/famous attracting only diehard fanboys (no offence) without attract the other wider spectrum of people on a bell curve.
No, you misinterpret me. I simply stated that it should be a neutral thing. It was just an advisory to the public. Same as if Beckham werent attending a friendly match, or something like that.
Well i guess this advisory is getting a bit out of hand then. It seems that its really hard to maintain neutrality (much less common sense, manners and decency!) on a matter that will involve "fans" emotionally one way or another.
On July 12 2011 03:01 Ownos wrote: This is extremely disappointing. -.-
Many players would've loved such a rare opportunity. This is like quitting your job while you're out on a lunch break.
Worse is he ditches his teammates.
Sir, which qualification do you have to make such a bold statement?
Are you a professional gamer? Do you actually know what Sheth had to do to go so far as he went? Are you into deep enough in the scene so you can compare his move with quitting a job on a lunch brake? Did FXO members tell you that they feel being let down?
May be I should no longer reply in this thread as I cannot stand it anymore.
Beside some rare appearances – none of them really critical – this thread is filled with noobs including myself. Yet Sheth gets a lot of advise. He must wonder how many pro gaming experts exist.
This is ridiculous. Sheth is a great guy and a great player, and you random people think you are entitled to having him go to a different country and compete for your entertainment? This decision is between Sheth and his team, not anyone else. They've issued statements just to be polite and obviously resolved it amicably based on those statements.
This is just another witch-hunting expedition from a drama-mongering community and everyone declaring Sheth a traitor or otherwise insulting this guy should be ashamed.
Well, wow, this is pretty disappointing news to hear. He was doing pretty damn good too. I hate to rain on his parade like alot of others here but I don't get it. I view it as a slap in the face to alot of other guys out there who may not be as good as sheth but would work their ass off for a long time in Korea.
On July 12 2011 03:18 Zauvryn wrote: This is ridiculous. Sheth is a great guy and a great player, and you random people think you are entitled to having him go to a different country and compete for your entertainment? This decision is between Sheth and his team, not anyone else. They've issued statements just to be polite and obviously resolved it amicably based on those statements.
This is just another witch-hunting expedition from a drama-mongering community and everyone declaring Sheth a traitor or otherwise insulting this guy should be ashamed.
I wrote this earlier. People who criticize for Sheth's decision does not mean they are out to get him.
OK..... I like Sheth and used to watch his steam very often. Let me just get that out there.
There seem to be 2 types of people here: ones who embraces Seth back and his decision and ones who criticizes his decion. There is no reason for anyone to convince the opposite group because everyone just feels different about his choice and there is right or wrong.
Having said that, here's my thought. Regardless which group of people you are in, we all agree that E-sports is getting bigger and we would like others to take this E-sports more seriously. Progamer is a person who plays a video/computer game competitvely for living. This type of job is far more different than just working in a cubicle in the office.
This is what Sheth said pretty much: I don't have really good reasons why I'm not returning to Korea. I just don't want to go back . Sheth seems to be missing following qualities as a progamer:
1.Passion to get better every day: practicing in Korea will get you better and some progamer want to come to Korea but they just don't have the finance to do it. It's an opportunity.
2.dedication to your team and teamates: What are you doing to your teamates- most of them are pretty much under the same condition as you were except you got thorough code a qualification. The person with most reason to stay in Korea from Fxo decides to leave for personal discomforts.....
3. love for the game and your fans: There are your fans who cheer and support upon your Korea trip. Watching you play on Gomtv at 3-5 am.... Instead, he rather sits at home, does streaming with commercials, and do some coaching. He is not a fighter. He just wants to do just enough to get by as a progamer.
I know and we all agree that he is a nice guy. I'm not arguing that nor his skills but mentally he is as bad as it gets for a progamer.
On July 12 2011 03:01 Ownos wrote: This is extremely disappointing. -.-
Many players would've loved such a rare opportunity. This is like quitting your job while you're out on a lunch break.
Worse is he ditches his teammates.
Sir, which qualification do you have to make such a bold statement?
Are you a professional gamer? Do you actually know what Sheth had to do to go so far as he went? Are you into deep enough in the scene so you can compare his move with quitting a job on a lunch brake? Did FXO members tell you that they feel being let down?
I think most people are just tired of getting their hopes up for pros that go to Korea as tourists "for the experience" rather than competitors. Luckily two competitors will arrive soon to accompany Jinro and Huk.
On July 11 2011 21:00 nihlon wrote: I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
It's a very bothersome trait of the general SC2 community. Members are quick to leap on and tear apart the slightest thing, whether it be a player, an event, a caster, you name it. Why? Who knows, it's certainly not because they care that much about it, otherwise they'd be providing constructive criticism.
A. This is the internet and internet rules apply (i.e mostly anonymous) B. The SC2 community demographic is male teens.
I think any community that has these attributes will be plagued with haters.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
What do YOU foreigners have for a GSL-equivalent? That's right, NOTHING. Oh wait, there's IPL but that's foreigner exclusive.
Start a GSL-equivalent league in NA/EU, then we'll discuss this further.
Since everybody seems to feel entitled to a qualified opinion/advice on this, here's mine:
Sheth, please don't take the opinions of these random online people to heart. Most of them don't know anything about the circumstances. Also just because your profession make you an entertainer doesn't mean that you have to give up your privacy to entertain these people.
Also to the people talking crap about foreigners just not having the stomach should really rethink what they are saying. We don't have many Koreans to compare that went to a country whose language they don't understand (english doesn't count since they are taught in school to a degree) where they are surrounded by just a handful of people who speak their native language, subject to strict training regiments and have to live in a crowded space with a social dynamic that they might not feel comfortable in.
Koreans going to NA/EU doesn't make sense because there will never be a GSL equivalent. There's no Korean style team houses in the US. The team houses in Seoul are all probably about an hour's travel from each other (max).
Everyone defending him should also consider that the rest of his teammates are making the exact same sacrifices that he was expected to make. QXC doesn't speak Korean, probably doesn't know that much about culture, probably doesn't have a big group of friends there and most certainly doesn't have any family there. A lot of people are expecting him to lose many of his games there but he's fighting it out and trying his hardest, win or lose. He's human too, possibly homesick, who knows. But he's fighting it out and pushing himself to get better.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I don´t get it. I think to be in Korea was a dream to Sheth. And wen he reach´s that dream, he just quit? Like that? Two weeks and someone leaves a life´s dream? Something is not right in here. Really sad to read that.
When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
No, doesn't compare. Tell me that when a foreigner can take down a major tournament. And we don't have the same level of dedication. They don't need to come here, because they are winning, they have sacrificed plenty to just get to the level they are at. Once the "average" sponsored progamer from the west doesn't get crushed by code B players from korea your point will be valid. Because only the best of the best of the western world can even compete with code A-B. And most of our top top players just get crushed by code S players.
And sheth was in a progaming house with people who all spoke english, this is perhaps the best situation he could have hoped for to advance his progaming career.
what do you care if he stays or not, it is HIS decision and neither of you knows him well enough to tell he's making a mistake. maybe it's all too much for him? we dont know!
also:
Should San Still be in Code A?
of course not?? sheth got kicked OUT of GSL by PLAYING (and unfortunately losing last of) his games, remember? he didnt go to san *oh yeah imma take your spot and then forfeit my games. durp*
good luck whatever you'll do, sheth grab a beer with me if you play at IEM cologne.
Sheth is a top foreign player and can easily win many of the 1,000-15,000 dollar tournaments that are popping up through out the foreigner scene more easily than attempting to win Code A or Code S, while still making a salary from FXO or some other top team, all be it not a large one. I mean since Idra left the GSL he has made 10,000 dollars in major tournaments winnings( not all 1st ), which is pretty impressive. He probably has also won some other things that have paided out as well. So the Korean scene isn't the only option to make bank
Why should anyone need to respect his decision? I don't think I'll ever be able to respect someone who turns on their them when they need him. He's definitely a strong FXO player and they're going to have a harder time without him. Plus, how must it feel for the rest of FXO in Korea with him leaving? They are (were) all in the same boat. They all make sacrifices but they don't all quit.
I'm not going to do anything more than rant about it on an internet forum and I know he's a nice person and all, but he's lost a lot of respect from me as a professional player.
Also, it's just better than trying to win Code A and failing because your mental condition sucks. there is no point arguing that he shouldn't have left, because as I understand it, he HAD TO.
On July 12 2011 04:12 fourColo wrote: Why should anyone need to respect his decision? I don't think I'll ever be able to respect someone who turns on their them when they need him. He's definitely a strong FXO players and they're going to have a harder time without him. Plus, how must it feel for the rest of FXO in Korea with him leaving? They are (were) all in the same boat. They all make sacrifices but they don't all quit.
Glad to read someone's post who shares the same opinions regarding TEAM SPIRIT. <.<
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
Right, because the results of tournaments show that right?
What your biased brain fails to comprehend is that Koreans go through the exact hardships you described. You do realize that living in a prohouse and training 10 hours a day entails not seeing your family whether you're foreign or Korean? At best they'll see their family on weekends, but you act as if every night they enjoy a home cooked meal from mommy.
And also, SK is a small country, but that doesn't mean the entire country is within walking distance. Stop trying to make foreigners out as having some tough life full of hardships. You fucking make me puke. As if going to another country and having your room and board paid to play VIDEO GAMES is a third world life.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
Right, because the results of tournaments show that right?
What your biased brain fails to comprehend is that Koreans go through the exact hardships you described. You do realize that living in a prohouse and training 10 hours a day entails not seeing your family whether you're foreign or Korean? At best they'll see their family on weekends, but you act as if every night they enjoy a home cooked meal from mommy.
And also, SK is a small country, but that doesn't mean the entire country is within walking distance. Stop trying to make foreigners out as having some tough life full of hardships. You fucking make me puke. As if going to another country and having your room and board paid to play VIDEO GAMES is a third world life.
You aren't accounting for the fact that moving to a foreign country is a massive change, and one that some people can't deal with. Seeing your family or not, being surrounded by people where you require a translator outside of the house is a big deal. It's not a 3rd world life, but it's also harder than you realize because a ton of foreigners have mentioned it being difficult.
On July 12 2011 04:09 P0ckets wrote: Sheth is a top foreign player and can easily win many of the 1,000-15,000 dollar tournaments that are popping up through out the foreigner scene more easily than attempting to win Code A or Code S, while still making a salary from FXO or some other top team, all be it not a large one. I mean since Idra left the GSL he has made 10,000 dollars in major tournaments winnings( not all 1st ), which is pretty impressive. He probably has also won some other things that have paided out as well. So the Korean scene isn't the only option to make bank
Are you kidding me? He has won NOTHING major and as seen on GSL he is far, far, away from competing for the top prize in any big tournament.
Korea was his best chance to improve and he blew it because he didn't like the living conditions. If you're a progamer, you better keep at it and this is an example of why foreigners will never be as good as Koreans. Their worth ethic is terrible.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 04:09 P0ckets wrote: Sheth is a top foreign player and can easily win many of the 1,000-15,000 dollar tournaments that are popping up through out the foreigner scene more easily than attempting to win Code A or Code S, while still making a salary from FXO or some other top team, all be it not a large one. I mean since Idra left the GSL he has made 10,000 dollars in major tournaments winnings( not all 1st ), which is pretty impressive. He probably has also won some other things that have paided out as well. So the Korean scene isn't the only option to make bank
Are you kidding me? He has won NOTHING major and as seen on GSL he is far, far, away from competing for the top prize in any big tournament.
Korea was his best chance to improve and he blew it because he didn't like the living conditions. If you're a progamer, you better keep at it and this is an example of why foreigners will never be as good as Koreans. Their worth ethic is terrible.
Your just hater. I guess the only way you measure skill is by winning a tournament not beating individual players over and over again. Also he has won/placed will in several tournaments just not any of the major ones if you happened to check his liquidpedia page. I mean most of IdrA's winnings are from 2nd or 3rd places.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 04:09 P0ckets wrote: Sheth is a top foreign player and can easily win many of the 1,000-15,000 dollar tournaments that are popping up through out the foreigner scene more easily than attempting to win Code A or Code S, while still making a salary from FXO or some other top team, all be it not a large one. I mean since Idra left the GSL he has made 10,000 dollars in major tournaments winnings( not all 1st ), which is pretty impressive. He probably has also won some other things that have paided out as well. So the Korean scene isn't the only option to make bank
That is not true..the whole idea that foreigner tourneys are easier is false since Koreans just come over and win and if Sheth can't win in America then he would have been better off in Korea which would have turned him into beastmode. You guys remember that one of the reasons Idra left Korea was to play in the NASL which he though would be easy money but Koreans completely dominated that tourney and how much did Idra get?? 0 dollars while if he stayed in Code S he would have got a lot more money.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
Yeah I don't see any Koreans making the sacrifice... <.<
How long have both of them been living in a foreign country since making that change?
From the best of my knowledge, they don't speak English very well, or have never really lived in a foreign country.
That's what I'm saying is that moving to a new country is a very difficult thing to do on short notice, I don't have any doubt that they'll succeed, but it will be far harder for them to do than anyone is taking notice of. It's not surprising that some people have failed making the transition to Korea, and as we see more Koreans make the move to the US, it won't be surprising if some of them fail to make that transition also.
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
Yeah I don't see any Koreans making the sacrifice... <.<
How long have both of them been living in a foreign country since making that change?
From the best of my knowledge, they don't speak English very well, or have never really lived in a foreign country.
That's what I'm saying is that moving to a new country is a very difficult thing to do on short notice, I don't have any doubt that they'll succeed, but it will be far harder for them to do than anyone is taking notice of. It's not surprising that some people have failed making the transition to Korea, and as we see more Koreans make the move to the US, it won't be surprising if some of them fail to make that transition also.
Yeah moving to another country for 1 month as schedule has laid out is very difficult thing. And do you really think FXOBoss just suddenly woke up 1 day and put all the players on the plane to Korea?
On July 12 2011 03:21 IcedBacon wrote: Basically just helping to confirm Mr. Chae's statement that foreigners don't have the dedication/sacrifice required to be the very best.
Statements like this reek of ignorance. Lets get the Koreans in America, training 10+ hours a day surrounded by people who don't speak their language, and several thousand miles from their families and see how many of them last for a long period of time.
The statement that "foreigners" don't have the dedication/sacrifice is stupid, what have the Korean's sacrificed while being able to stay close to home? You can look at TLO's pro-gaming house, and EG's upcoming gaming house(and bootcamp) to see that foreigners have the same dedication, and when a bunch of Koreans are coming across the ocean and living here for months we can compare the levels of sacrifice, but only then.
I'm pretty confident that most willing Koreans will stick around in when a GSL-equivalent starts in NA/EU.
I'm pretty confident that the world will end tomorrow. Your entire argument is based on you thinking that you know the personal thoughts and opinions of Korean progamers, there isn't any evidence at all to support your claim, and until there is any comparisons are invalid.
First of all, I AM Korean and lived there for a decade, so I at least know what the general ideals of them, and second, I actually know one of them in person, but I won't name it here since my reputation is here is... not that great.
We have this kind of "American Dream" where a poor Korean becomes successful and return triumphant after moving to a foreign country.
So yeah, at least we'll stick around longer, at the very least.
I wasn't aware of that attitude, and it does make sense. However, until we actually see the Korean's really sacrificing then Mr. Chae's statement is still just inflammatory without anything backing it up.
On July 12 2011 04:09 P0ckets wrote: Sheth is a top foreign player and can easily win many of the 1,000-15,000 dollar tournaments that are popping up through out the foreigner scene more easily than attempting to win Code A or Code S, while still making a salary from FXO or some other top team, all be it not a large one. I mean since Idra left the GSL he has made 10,000 dollars in major tournaments winnings( not all 1st ), which is pretty impressive. He probably has also won some other things that have paided out as well. So the Korean scene isn't the only option to make bank
That is not true..the whole idea that foreigner tourneys are easier is false since Koreans just come over and win and if Sheth can't win in America then he would have been better off in Korea which would have turned him into beastmode. You guys remember that one of the reasons Idra left Korea was to play in the NASL which he though would be easy money but Koreans completely dominated that tourney and how much did Idra get?? 0 dollars while if he stayed in Code S he would have got a lot more money.
has also to be accounted for the strange organisation of the tourney where you play 3 months worth of games just to get kicked out by someone who played a 2-day (dont know exactly) qualifier. also he makes a lot of money by teaching (last time i read was $300/h) which would be more difficult from korea.
I understand Sheth, some people are just more introverted than others, and need time to "recharge" after being with people. When there's no place to get away and be alone, you can get really stressed and just feel worn out. I'm still rooting for you and hope you continue to get better and better!
Sucks he isn't going back but honestly I prefer and Good sheth to a BAD sheth. From what Sheth posted it almost seems like it wasn't helping him as much as it could have. Hopefully his time at home will help him recharge so he is in good shape for Anaheim.
It is also very surprising to me that so many people are attacking Sheth... gaming communities always make me scratch my head.
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending all my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
This post is one of the proofs that separates real fans from the casual fans. <.<
I love Sheth, don't get me wrong, but it really irks me when people don't honor their commitments.
I probably wouldn't like it there anymore than he does, but his team is in Korea right now and, quite frankly, they need him if they want to get any wins in the GSTL.
He's gotta do what's right for himself. Sure, he's passing up an opportunity that many would kill for, but his personal well being is more important. too bad :\
Man, he could've done so much more ! Being white in Asia, he could've been an extra in a Korean movie, or got laid simply by speaking proper English, or competed in the Korean Basketball League. shame he left early before experiencing these things :D.
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending all my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
Then quit SC2 and be a house child? Staying in Korea doesn't mean you never see your family ever again. It doesn't even mean you stay there forever, heck even staying there until you're eliminated from Code A would be doing more than peacing on his team.
On July 12 2011 04:34 fourColo wrote: How long has SelecT been in the states?
Isn't he going to school in the USA though?
How does that matter?
Living in a foreign country is living in a foreign country, and it can be hard. You force yourself to deal with it, because its your job. Millions of people all over the world do this, some of them like it, some of them hate it. I've worked in Benin/Nigeria/Togo for several years, and while I liked it, most of my colleagues hated every minute of it and would rather be anywhere else. Yet they did it, because they knew what they were signing up for and you know, it's your job. Let's not pretend it's some kind of hell to live in Korea, or that it is some kind of 'sacrifice' that's unique to SC2. In the big scheme of things, 4 weeks in korea is a vacation.
Then again, if you really want to go home, go home, entirely your right and entirely your choice.
If everyone was like sheth we would never get a Boxer -- who's faced depression, destroyed his shoulder, and faced existential crises fighting to stay relevant while he's entering middle ages knowing nothing but starcraft.
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending all my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
Then quit SC2 and be a house child? Staying in Korea doesn't mean you never see your family ever again. It doesn't even mean you stay there forever, heck even staying there until you're eliminated from Code A would be doing more than peacing on his team.
On July 12 2011 04:34 fourColo wrote: How long has SelecT been in the states?
Isn't he going to school in the USA though?
He quit school when SC2 came out. Decided to stay in America. Probably if the whole SC2 pro-gamer thing doesn't pan out he can still go back to school. I think he said that in his IPL1 interview.
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending all my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
Then quit SC2 and be a house child? Staying in Korea doesn't mean you never see your family ever again. It doesn't even mean you stay there forever, heck even staying there until you're eliminated from Code A would be doing more than peacing on his team.
Amazing opportunity and I feel as a pro gamer it is a horrible choice to pass up this opportunity, I feel you know the commitments you are making going into pro gaming as a career choice and as such should honor your commitments.
Takes sacrifice to succeed and I feel going for whats more comfortable in your life is never going to get you anywhere.
Ultimately his choice though, however terrible of a choice is it.
On July 12 2011 04:02 fourColo wrote: When I'm 80 and looking back on my life's achievements I really want to look back and say "back in '11 I had the chance to go nuts in Korea, a foreign land drastically different form my own and experience all sorts of new things... sure glad I spent the rest of my life in the town I grew up in living with my parents..."
Or you might say I'm glad I spent more time with the people I care about than spending all my time playing a game and being miserable. Who knows?
Then quit SC2 and be a house child? Staying in Korea doesn't mean you never see your family ever again. It doesn't even mean you stay there forever, heck even staying there until you're eliminated from Code A would be doing more than peacing on his team.
This is a really disappointing turn of events for the foreign sc2 scene. There is so much evidence that shows putting in the dedication and hard-work produces results (just look at Huk and Jinro). Before I get flamed for attacking Sheth as a person, I want to ask everyone who is playing the "Sheth is doing what's best for him" card, what does he have to say to his teammates who are now left without their captain? What kind of example is he setting for his team when he can't stick it for a couple extra weeks? (I cringe when I say stick it out because training in Korea and participating in the GSL would be the ultimate dream for a majority of the people who play this game competitively) From my experience playing on a college baseball team I know that I wouldn't be able to respect a teammate, much less the captain, if he threw in the towel half way through the season because things got a little "uncomfortable" (again cringing because living rent free in a pro-gaming training house in Korea could be considered a dream) Now I don't pretend to know any of the members of FXO or Sheth, just saying if it was me in the FXO guys shoes, Sheth wouldn't have much of my respect. You don't quit on your team because the allotted living conditions don't suit your personal preferences. Seems pretty weak imo, especially if he was GIVEN a spot into Code A when people like QXC and DRG are still unable to get in. Anyway GL to FXO and Sheth, who knows maybe he will show better results training the way he seems fit.
From a personal standpoint I can understand where Sheth is coming from. However, Sheth is the captain of the FXO team during the GSTL. To abandon his team is very unprofessional. How can the captain abandon his own team when they need him? A captain doesn't abandon his ship.
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
People were disappointed but no, they didn't get as much shit, because they stayed a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks to try and make it work, and that was after failing to even qualify for the GSL. They also didn't abandon their team in the middle of a team league.
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
no
But keep in mind all the TL guys spent at least 3-4 months in Korea. I know TLO was the least amount of time at like 2 and a half months maybe. Not %100 sure.
Ret spent 5 months I think and Haypro spent 6-7 months there. So its a lot more time than 2 weeks.
I think thats why everyone is more angry. Cause sheth was top 16 Code A. Was going to be in code A in August. Only spent 2 weeks there and basically said "i'm out,".
We don't know all the circumstances involved in his decision so who are we to judge? There are probably some reasons for this that he doesn't want to share which is understandable. All I know is that Sheth seems like a great guy and it was fun to see him in Korea for a while atleast. Hopefully we'll see him stream more now that he's back, unless he wants to focus purely on traning which I respect aswell.
I'll keep cheering for you Sheth, we need all the good guys we can get in the SC2 community in order to bring balance to the force
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
I think you, and many others in this thread, need to have a little bit more RESPECT for just how difficult it can be to live in a different country, where you don't speak the language, where you don't have a lot of luxuries you grew up with, etc. Please have some respect for Sheth's decision, it's his to make, not yours.
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
no because those 3 at least gave it a decent shot. while 2 weeks is not giving it a shot, anyway you put it.
besides TLO had good reasons. not "i miss home" type thing u know.
Not to mention the situation is different. All the FXO guys are in a unique position.
There was a lot of hype with FXO participating in Korea. How can FXO NOT understand the reaction when the team's best player decides he's not coming back?
I'm disappointed as well. When Nony (Tyler) went back to the US I was extremely sympathetic because it would be extremely hard to live in a house full of guys who don't speak your language and only sit at the computer practicing, devoid of social aspects. However, Sheth is with his entire team, who also speak his language.
It would be one thing if he didn't think progaming was for him (at the time, that was also Nony's thought), or he didn't want to do it that seriously, but he quit school for it, so he should at least take golden opportunities to further his career like these.
Then of course there's the fact that his team is still in the GSTL as the first foreign team to ever compete and he leaves them as captain.
Meh. It's his decision, he choose the, in most peoples eyes, poor one for his career. That's all, get on with your lives because it's his life and in his eyes he choose the right one, and guess what? It's his decision. While I do feel a little upset that his not going to practice in Korea any more, I'm fine with his decision. When you can play on a professional level and only then can you criticize Sheth's decision for his career. You can't criticize Sheth's personal decision.
But in terms of his team, his the captain. His in the the top 3 best players on their team and his skipping out on them, while I'm sure that the other players aren't disheartened by this the community sees this as an act of betrayal and are going to look at the "Manner Bear" in a less then positive light now. I feel that his ejection from Korea was a little premature, there's only like 2-3 more GSTL matches that FXO are participating in and if he can't stick around for those 2-3 weeks despite Korea not being the 'place' for him I wouldn't want him on my team, let alone the captain of my team.
But like I said, from a personal standpoint I see no reason for anyone to criticize him leaving. However, from a team perspective he should be damned for skipping on his team during one of their biggest events they've ever participated in.
Kinda bullshit to abandon his team that way. Of course you can criticize his personal decision. It's his decision, but it's a bad one, and he's hurting his team.
Sure it's his decision but this does not reflect the true mindset of a competitor. If he is telling that being pro is his dream and he gets the chance, the only right thing to do is to seize that chance. Giving up on Korea is like leaving the NBA to play in the NBA-D League.
I respect his decision and yes family is important, but this seems like a stepback for Sheths career. And as someone who thinks that his abilities are terrific and someone who roots for him everytime he plays; this just saddens me.
Sheth the person can do whatever he wants. He's a nice guy and deserves respect.
Sheth the player does not deserve the same respect. Maybe he's not cut out to be a pro player -- fine for Sheth the person, he should do what he wants, and being a pro SC2 player apparently isn't his dream.
I don't know him as a person and I don't mean for him to take any of this personally but as a player he just seems like a waste.
More than one person has mentioned Sheths "abandoning" his team, but as far as any of us know he went with his team's blessing.
In this, and every other aspect of this decision, there's a lot of assuming and jumping to conclusions.
I really don't get what people's angle is. Just feels like justifying hating on Sheth for not doing what they think they would've done in that same situation. As for that last bit, I refer to my previous post.
People should refrain from commenting in such confident language on topics they know little to nothing about.
I doubt his team hates him or anything, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to burn bridges. But there just aren't any respectable, serious American pro gamers right now. We thought Sheth was going to be the one but we were wrong. He was the ONLY North American in the NASL finals. There's a vaccuum of talent in the US and sheth didn't want to step up.
I'm sure hundreds of other "good" american players would love to practice their ass off and show the world what they can do but they can't because they don't have the money to improve. Sheth was given this by the unbelievably generous FXO and he doesn't want it?
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
I think you, and many others in this thread, need to have a little bit more RESPECT for just how difficult it can be to live in a different country, where you don't speak the language, where you don't have a lot of luxuries you grew up with, etc. Please have some respect for Sheth's decision, it's his to make, not yours.
First of all I don't owe Sheth anything, much less respect for a decision many find disappointing, especially considering how many people would jump all over this opportunity. I guess the foreigners want everything to come easy to them. Seems they don't understand the concept of making sacrifices to achieve your goals.I understand his choice, but that doesn't make it any easier to sallow. I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, I really am. I guess allotted training in the mecca of the world's biggest e-sport isn't enough for Sheth, he needs his cake and wants to eat it too
On July 12 2011 05:48 sylverfyre wrote: Don't worry FXOSheth, you're still my favorite zerg in the world!
On July 12 2011 05:46 OddisH wrote:
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
I think you, and many others in this thread, need to have a little bit more RESPECT for just how difficult it can be to live in a different country, where you don't speak the language, where you don't have a lot of luxuries you grew up with, etc. Please have some respect for Sheth's decision, it's his to make, not yours.
First of all I don't owe Sheth anything, much less respect for a decision many find disappointing, especially considering how many people would jump all over this opportunity. I guess the foreigners want everything to come easy to them. Seems they don't understand the concept of making sacrifices to achieve your goals.I understand his choice, but that doesn't make it any easier to sallow. I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, I really am. I guess allotted training in the mecca of the world's biggest e-sport isn't enough for Sheth, he needs his cake and wants to eat it too
I agree with with the premise of your statement about certain foreigners not sticking it out but boy did that come off as harsh.
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
He took the opportunity, he gave Code A a shot and did pretty well. People keep going on and on about 2 weeks but you can know if a living condition is going to work out for you in 2 weeks easily. It didn't work for him so he made a decision to make his life more enjoyable. He doesn't owe some random guy sitting behind a computer judging him any explanation. Everyone is different Sheth is not Huk/Jinro/TLO/Ret/Haypro/idra etc. so you cant really compare the situations. Ill just say I'm proud of him he had a pretty good GSL run and I hope he learned from the experience.
No one was hurt, nothing was lost, lets try not to crucify one of the nicest players in the community for leaving a situation he was not comfortable with.
There's an opportunity loss if you figure FXO, the daddy warbucks of the foreigner starcraft scene, could have conceivably sent someone passionate about SC2.
On July 12 2011 05:48 sylverfyre wrote: Don't worry FXOSheth, you're still my favorite zerg in the world!
On July 12 2011 05:46 OddisH wrote:
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
I think you, and many others in this thread, need to have a little bit more RESPECT for just how difficult it can be to live in a different country, where you don't speak the language, where you don't have a lot of luxuries you grew up with, etc. Please have some respect for Sheth's decision, it's his to make, not yours.
First of all I don't owe Sheth anything, much less respect for a decision many find disappointing, especially considering how many people would jump all over this opportunity. I guess the foreigners want everything to come easy to them. Seems they don't understand the concept of making sacrifices to achieve your goals.I understand his choice, but that doesn't make it any easier to sallow. I'm sorry things didnt work out for him, I really am. I guess allotted training in the mecca of the world's biggest e-sport isn't enough for Sheth, he needs his cake and wants to eat it too
I agree with with the premise of your statement about certain foreigners not sticking it out but boy did that come off as harsh.
Now that I heard it a couple times it does seem a little harsh, and for that I am sorry. I just find it unnerving that such a grand opportunity was pushed away
On July 12 2011 06:02 fourColo wrote: Sheth the player does not deserve the same respect. Maybe he's not cut out to be a pro player -- fine for Sheth the person, he should do what he wants, and being a pro SC2 player apparently isn't his dream.
Don't feel like I'm singling you out by quoting you bro, your post was just the closest one that expressed this sentiment.
Let's be dry and pragmatic about this aspect of things, shall we? Being "Pro" by definition means "making one's living by doing something", in the strictest definition of the word. It's NOT about bragging rights or recognition, which I can kind of understand that some people associate with being in the GSL - where arguably the best players are.
But as a pro, a person making money off of playing SC2, things actually become a bit more complex than just "GSL is where it's at". Making money in the GSL becomes difficult exactly because it is so competitive. Now, I'm not privy to the economic subtleties of professional gaming. I can totally imagine that you can make quite a bit of salary/sponsorship dough by just being reasonably high in the GSL consistently, because it gets you air time and you may get bonuses for displaying sponsor logos and stuff.
However, one must contrast this with the sheer number of tournaments available in the western scene. Competing in those may ultimately give Sheth:
A.) A bigger net share of exposure than would one or two televised appearances a month in the GSL B.) Actually prize money - sure, smaller amounts than winning Code S or even Code A would award, but also a lot more easily won
I don't know the maths (and most of you don't either), but if it's really about Sheths "career", the there's a lot more to it than the bragging rights of being among the best of the best. It's the same in other sports and forms of entertainment. Look at the number of athletes past their prime who spend a few years in foreign countries where they are paid enormous sums of money sitting on a bench - think they give a rat's ass that some might call them sellouts or whatever?
I'd like to also call people's attention to the fact that we're seeing more of Ret and Haypro now than we ever did when they were over in Korea. Oh, and how's Jinro been doing lately? I mean, I know it's all down to how one defines "success" and stuff, but I'd rather be in White-Ra's, Idra's or Sheths shoes right now than Jinros.
On July 12 2011 06:03 Odious_Repeater wrote: More than one person has mentioned Sheths "abandoning" his team, but as far as any of us know he went with his team's blessing.
In this, and every other aspect of this decision, there's a lot of assuming and jumping to conclusions.
I really don't get what people's angle is. Just feels like justifying hating on Sheth for not doing what they think they would've done in that same situation. As for that last bit, I refer to my previous post.
People should refrain from commenting in such confident language on topics they know little to nothing about.
Even if there was a statement from FXO saying that Sheth left with their blessing would you believe it? I know if I was in FXO and went with my team to Korea and one of our best players/captain decide to stay in America and not come back I would feel abandoned. I can't hate Sheth that he left his team but I would have a lot more respect for him if he could stick around and help his team out. Nobody said Korea was going to be easy and with FXO struggling in GSTL this is probably when their team needs their captain the most. I hope FXO can pull through regardless and finish the season strong
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the oven. If someone is completely dedicated / serious in competing to the highest level I think Korea would be where they would want to be.
When it comes to tournament earnings Jinro has made about 12 times as much as Sheth has. Why would you rather be Sheth than Jinro? Jinro also gets to practice with the best in the world, Sheth does not.
TLO and Ret have made considerably more than Sheth according to the SC2 earnings site as well. Sheth could have easily beat them, he has the potential. And for every Sheth there's probably several dozen Koreans just as good as him that struggle and fail to qualify for Code A every season.
GSL isn't the only tournament but Korea has the highest concentration of talent, there's really no argument to be made about it.
On July 12 2011 06:22 storm44 wrote: Even if there was a statement from FXO saying that Sheth left with their blessing would you believe it?
I would accept it, if not believe it, and shut my mouth in the face of the burden of proof being put on me. The allegation that a team would lie about being okay with someone leaving is a big enough one that if I wanted to make a case to the contrary, I'd best provide some proof rather than just conspiracy theories based on preconceived notions about what "team captain" means in a context like this.
However, if the team really did think it was a really, really big deal and the team brass - as well as the players on the team - lost confidence in Sheth as a result... wouldn't you think it very likely that they'd part ways permanently? I mean, that's usually what happens in other areas. If my team at work doesn't want to rally behind me, I'm going to quit on my own - and wouldn't be surprised in the least if someone beat me to the punch and asked me to leave.
If we are to talk from personal experience and hypotheticals, I mean...
On July 12 2011 06:26 NuKedUFirst wrote: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the oven. If someone is completely dedicated / serious in competing to the highest level I think Korea would be where they would want to be.
I agree completely, just look at Naniwa or QXC, in almost every interview or public statement I've seen of them recently they can't (couldn't) wait to get to Korea to prove their skill. The foreign scene needs more players like this...
He's also going home to a land that's arguably responsible for stagnating Idra due to lack of available talent. How is Sheth going to beat the likes of MC if he never plays anyone nearly as good as MC?
The only thing I don't understand is he acts like 1 month is like 1 year. Honestly, 1 month is nothing and that time flies by real fast. Just seems a bit strange cause it's really not that much time to be away from friends and family if he's missing them that much.
On July 12 2011 06:29 fourColo wrote: When it comes to tournament earnings Jinro has made about 12 times as much as Sheth has. Why would you rather be Sheth than Jinro? Jinro also gets to practice with the best in the world, Sheth does not.
TLO and Ret have made considerably more than Sheth according to the SC2 earnings site as well. Sheth could have easily beat them, he has the potential. And for every Sheth there's probably several dozen Koreans just as good as him that struggle and fail to qualify for Code A every season.
GSL isn't the only tournament but Korea has the highest concentration of talent, there's really no argument to be made about it.
I missed reiterating the perhaps most important bit of my argument - that if Sheth would have been over in Korea and stayed unhappy, he is more likely than not to have posted any results that were even half decent. Depressed people generally don't perform. Do you think he'd have made it to Code S, where the real dough is?
Jinro's earnings are impressive - but he has two semis back-to-back. I'm curious to see what happens on a long enough timeline; how much has Jinro made since dropping down to code A?
Yes, TLO and Ret have made consideraby more than Ret. How much of that was made while they were in Korea? How much did Ret win at Assembly compared to his earnings in the GSL?
I've already admitted to not knowing the fullness of the maths, but tournament earnings are hardly the entirety of a player's income, correct?
On July 12 2011 05:36 ptbl wrote: From a personal standpoint I can understand where Sheth is coming from. However, Sheth is the captain of the FXO team during the GSTL. To abandon his team is very unprofessional. How can the captain abandon his own team when they need him? A captain doesn't abandon his ship.
Pretty much my view. Imagine if Nestea or MVP were to say "k IM, [insert personal reason] so I don't feel like playing in the GSTL anymore." It's so unprofessional...it's no wonder FXO is getting demolished both inside and outside of the booth.
again, everyone is just *oh I KNOW HOW IT IS* and judging Sheth from there on.
Do you know?
Maybe he's got some mental issues? We don't know?
And again: You are not letting your team down if you know you are going to slump and be a bad captain because you dont like your current life and want to go back.
On July 12 2011 06:42 schaf wrote: again, everyone is just *oh I KNOW HOW IT IS* and judging Sheth from there on.
Do you know?
Maybe he's got some mental issues? We don't know?
And again: You are not letting your team down if you know you are going to slump and be a bad captain because you dont like your current life and want to go back.
It's not about whether you are going to be in a slump or not.
On July 12 2011 06:29 fourColo wrote: When it comes to tournament earnings Jinro has made about 12 times as much as Sheth has. Why would you rather be Sheth than Jinro? Jinro also gets to practice with the best in the world, Sheth does not.
TLO and Ret have made considerably more than Sheth according to the SC2 earnings site as well. Sheth could have easily beat them, he has the potential. And for every Sheth there's probably several dozen Koreans just as good as him that struggle and fail to qualify for Code A every season.
GSL isn't the only tournament but Korea has the highest concentration of talent, there's really no argument to be made about it.
I missed reiterating the perhaps most important bit of my argument - that if Sheth would have been over in Korea and stayed unhappy, he is more likely than not to have posted any results that were even half decent. Depressed people generally don't perform. Do you think he'd have made it to Code S, where the real dough is?
Jinro's earnings are impressive - but he has two semis back-to-back. I'm curious to see what happens on a long enough timeline; how much has Jinro made since dropping down to code A?
Yes, TLO and Ret have made consideraby more than Ret. How much of that was made while they were in Korea? How much did Ret win at Assembly compared to his earnings in the GSL?
I've already admitted to not knowing the fullness of the maths, but tournament earnings are hardly the entirety of a player's income, correct?
To me getting depressed about not seeing your family for a month and having to live with a bunch of other guys is the same as not being a pro. Some people have it in them and some people don't.
I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
I can respect a decision like this... being uncomfortable where you live is something that you can't just sweep away as inconsequential. Get back to your real home, chill out, and take it easy dude.
On July 12 2011 06:52 fourColo wrote: To me getting depressed about not seeing your family for a month and having to live with a bunch of other guys is the same as not being a pro. Some people have it in them and some people don't.
Fair enough, though that stuff comes down to luck really. You can say "some people have it in them and some people don't", but an equally valid explanation is "some people mind and some people don't". If you're one of those people who don't mind (I am one too), then you may just be lucky (or an emotionally detached sociopath, or maybe your family/friends suck - there's plenty of reasons for people to not mind being away from their family/friends).
Now, if everyone was equally likely to get equally depressed, but some people managed to pull through anyway through sheer force of will... that I could respect on my own terms. A lot more than some people who simply didn't have a certain emotional response to being away from friends and family.
On July 12 2011 06:52 Shockk wrote: I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
The people criticizing his decision probably have no problem moving around like most adults his age... I've spent a month in Korea on vacation which is more than Sheth and I lived in youth hostels so it's not like I had a lot of privacy. It was a HUGE highlight of my life. So much good food, tons of friends I'm still in contact with today, amusement parks, free BW to watch, noraebang, TONS of clubs, amazing public transit, palaces, beautiful islands, parks, tours, it was great. I know going to Seoul for SC2 wouldn't be about having fun but being exposed to a different culture is worth it by itself.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
On July 12 2011 06:52 fourColo wrote: To me getting depressed about not seeing your family for a month and having to live with a bunch of other guys is the same as not being a pro. Some people have it in them and some people don't.
Fair enough, though that stuff comes down to luck really. You can say "some people have it in them and some people don't", but an equally valid explanation is "some people mind and some people don't". If you're one of those people who don't mind (I am one too), then you may just be lucky (or an emotionally detached sociopath - plenty of reasons for people to not mind being away from your family).
Now, if everyone was equally likely to get equally depressed, but some people managed to pull through anyway through sheer force of will... that I could respect on my own terms. A lot more than some people who simply didn't have a certain emotional response to being away from friends and family.
Yeah again I guess I can't really say he made a bad choice since it's personal it's just a big let down. He was supposed to be the great American hope.
Also I'm extremely fond of Korea and pretty much any big city with worthwhile public transit and fun things to do.
On July 12 2011 06:29 fourColo wrote: When it comes to tournament earnings Jinro has made about 12 times as much as Sheth has. Why would you rather be Sheth than Jinro? Jinro also gets to practice with the best in the world, Sheth does not.
TLO and Ret have made considerably more than Sheth according to the SC2 earnings site as well. Sheth could have easily beat them, he has the potential. And for every Sheth there's probably several dozen Koreans just as good as him that struggle and fail to qualify for Code A every season.
GSL isn't the only tournament but Korea has the highest concentration of talent, there's really no argument to be made about it.
Yet Sheth, even with his inferior training went as far as Jinro did this season.
Korea isn't for everyone guys. He tried it and he didn't like it. He was going to stay through the GSTL, but then flights kept him from doing so.
On July 12 2011 07:02 fourColo wrote: Yeah again I guess I can't really say he made a bad choice since it's personal it's just a big let down. He was supposed to be the great American hope.
Also I'm extremely fond of Korea and pretty much any big city with worthwhile public transit and fun things to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head right there; a lot of people projected a lot onto Sheth. I think if he were just one of many Americans competing in Code A or even S, people would feel a lot less disappointed with Sheth leaving.
For the record, I would probably be in heaven being in Korea, for the same reasons you mentioned and more. As I said in my original post, I've done a bunch of travelling and love doing it. I can understand on some level that some people who live vicariously through the players feel a bit disappointed by proxy. Kind of like they're thinking "if I'd had that opportunity, shiet, I would've been all over it".
I guess being as good as Sheth is what's required to be able to accept or refuse such an opportunity. Back to the ladder we go...
I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
All the best for you Shawn I'm really happy you spent some time in Korea thanks for playing in the GSL and participating in gstl when you were there. <3
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
At least he got out before it got worse. If you know something is wrong for you don't keep doing it and just increase the misery. He gave it a shot and it isn't for him.
Sad news is this is a fatal blow to FXO in korea, imo. Losing one of your best players has to hurt a lot.
This is somewhat disappointing, but there will be more opportunities in the future. Fxo will just have to make due and maybe this will motivate the other players to train harder because their star will not be returning. I dont know what sheth's reasoning is but i can respect his decision because of what he has done for the community. Best of luck to Fxo and Sheth in the future.
I find it so weird that people have this issue with the transition especially now with the GOM house even if it isn't team oriented exactly there are people who speak your language. But then again I guess it could be similar to that statistic about college where 50% of freshman drop out because of the drastic change in lifestyles.
If Sheth was going to stay for only a month from the beginning, then I have to question the decision to give him that free Code A spot. It's just so difficult to get into Code A (even guys like DRG and Puma have never managed to get there yet), so why give it to someone who was only going to try it out for one tournament and then leave? If it had to be given to a non-Korean, then GOMtv might as well have given it to qxc instead.
@totalbiscuit Its probably best to just leave the haters to the TL staff. When you argue with people that approach matters with a completely biased standpoint it's just adding fuel to the fire. You're a really exciting caster and you dont need to give yourself a bad image by arguing with kids who think they know everything.
@the haters Stop hating on people that have done more for esports than you could ever do. Sheth has contributed by writing zerg guides on the forums as well as commentating and interacting with viewers on his stream. If Sheth doesnt want to return to korea he doesnt have to, its his life not yours. everyone has their opinions but i think someone as nice and mannered as sheth deserves a little more respect on the forums. and you dont get to the skill level that sheth is on by half-assing it in training. The guy is amazing he just doesnt want to be in korea for some reason, thats his decision.
So far we learned that not everyone is cut out to be a profesional starcraft player who is sponsored by a team.
Im not just talking about Sheth here, but all pro gamers on a team. Profesional is taking an employer opportunity and sticking with it, even if it includes travel, and supporting them and their team. Being their best player I think he should have stayed with FXO until the day they leave. Being a part of a team means to be responsible not only to his fans but to the guys who write his cheques, and the sponsors who rely on the best players possible to show off their product.
Pro teams and managers work hard to get sponsorships. You know the first thing they say when they approach a sponsor? We can get you exposure because we have some top level players who can get you noticed.
If gamers want everyone to start respecting pro gaming, and for pro gamers to make loads of cash now and forever, then we have to start treating gaming as a job that has its responsibilities, and if not, then gaming will forever be in the nerds only stage and nobody in the west will respect it. Am I right?
On July 12 2011 10:42 Cartel wrote: So far we learned that not everyone is cut out to be a profesional starcraft player who is sponsored by a team.
Im not just talking about Sheth here, but all pro gamers on a team. Profesional is taking an employer opportunity and sticking with it, even if it includes travel, and supporting them and their team. Being their best player I think he should have stayed with FXO until the day they leave. Being a part of a team means to be responsible not only to his fans but to the guys who write his cheques, and the sponsors who rely on the best players possible to show off their product.
Pro teams and managers work hard to get sponsorships. You know the first thing they say when they approach a sponsor? We can get you exposure because we have some top level players who can get you noticed.
If gamers want everyone to start respecting pro gaming, and for pro gamers to make loads of cash now and forever, then we have to start treating gaming as a job that has its responsibilities, and if not, then gaming will forever be in the nerds only stage and nobody in the west will respect it. Am I right?
I'm pretty big on being a team player, I don't think I could abandon my team ESPECIALLY if I was the captain. If I was Sheth and I felt like I couldn't cut it out and had to abandon my team I'd prob just step down and hope there is someone on the team who felt like they were more capable.
this sucks alot cause although people were not expecting FXO to take it home was at least expecting to see them give their all. Cause if they want the title or not they represent foreigners. Korea does not have to worry about e-sports being mainstream there cause it is, stuff like this happening does have an impact on e-sports development.
It's not like he'd be literally going down with a ship into sinking water. He wouldn't see his family for another quarter of a year or something. It's really surprising because studying abroad and going away from home for college are big parts of American culture.
Nothing wrong with being homesick. Family and friends are important. Starcraft at the end of the day is a game and a job. If he is not happy there is nothing wrong with change.
Sheth can dominate from the USA! We will cheer for you no matter where you are.
On July 12 2011 10:14 frostbite23 wrote: @the haters Stop hating on people that have done more for esports than you could ever do. Sheth has contributed by writing zerg guides on the forums as well as commentating and interacting with viewers on his stream. If Sheth doesnt want to return to korea he doesnt have to, its his life not yours. everyone has their opinions but i think someone as nice and mannered as sheth deserves a little more respect on the forums. and you dont get to the skill level that sheth is on by half-assing it in training. The guy is amazing he just doesnt want to be in korea for some reason, thats his decision.
I'm not going to deny sheth's contribution to the community as i'm just one of the many anonymous posters on TL trying to take a stab here (who isnt?. after all, the two main groups of people here are people who are defending Sheth's decision and the ones who are attacking him (which however is further separated into two different groups, the ones who just post MINDLESS hate, and the ones who do it civilly/decency/objectively/and with common sense))
Respect for a person can only be earned, which sheth has. This respect however can easily be lost by a single bad incident no matter how much good deeds a person has done before (I posted earlier on this same thread about something similar, using Criminal records as an example), and that only diehard fans (which is not a bad thing) will still maintain that same level of respect for that person where everyone else has fallen off.
There are many different people in here with different backgrounds, life experiences, expectations and ideas, and this in turn influences the way they see the incident. Yes, mindless hate and non-contributing comments are not appreciated, but no one here is entitled to give respect to sheth for his decision unless they want to as they will not see it the same way (like there are a group of people who say Sheth's gotta do whats best for sheth while others say that Team first, individual second).
Sheth acknowledges this, he even calls it a dick move himself. For someone as famous as Sheth, criticism will be expected of anything he does, and while FXOpen calls for neutrality in this, I'm not surprise that Sheth might have expect the level of 'controversy' that we are seeing here in this thread.
On July 12 2011 10:14 frostbite23 wrote: @the haters Stop hating on people that have done more for esports than you could ever do. Sheth has contributed by writing zerg guides on the forums as well as commentating and interacting with viewers on his stream. If Sheth doesnt want to return to korea he doesnt have to, its his life not yours. everyone has their opinions but i think someone as nice and mannered as sheth deserves a little more respect on the forums. and you dont get to the skill level that sheth is on by half-assing it in training. The guy is amazing he just doesnt want to be in korea for some reason, thats his decision.
Soo.. Because someone isn't as good as a pro for the game, they're not doing anything for esports?
I'm 100% sure if other people would be in this situation and had the game knowledge Sheth has they would do the exact same thing, maybe not the 24hr live streams though, but they would still write guides, stream with commentary and provide entertainment AND serious business. It's not about how good he is or not, it's about how the captain of a pro-gaming team doesn't want to return to his team to participate in one of their biggest debuts. I would disrespect any captain of a team who does this - Korean or not.
Now if you're going to say we're haters then that's ok - your judgement is just clouded. I think we all respect Sheth the person - the well mannered and kind guy, but some of us don't respect Sheth the captain of FXO, and one of their ace players that could of pulled them through.
I understand his personal reasons but in my eyes - and maybe others - his let his team down, abandoning them when they're trying to make history in E-Sports. If you call us haters for disrespecting Sheth for this then you need to look at the bigger picture. We don't hate Sheth - we are just disappointed.
On one hand its like yea who would want to live in a small ass apartment sharing a bunkbed with 10 guys, 0 privacy, far away from home, family, friends, girlfriend, etc.
On the other he made the commitment knowing what he was signing up for. The thing that makes it so much worse is that he was the captain, I wonder what that did to the morale of the team or how the team feels about it.
If you honestly think about it, it is completely understandable. Kind of odd, but you never know how you'll feel about a certain situation until you try it I guess, I mean if he just passed it up he would have never known, or had the experience. but in the end if its not for him it's not for him.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on Sheth but man.. more power to him, best of luck in future endeavors.
Well he should of stuck it in there for at least another 2 weeks. It is only 2 weeks after all. Does FXOBoss pay for everything? Assuming that he does then in the Korean culture its disrespectful to turn down something halfway through, but alas Americans are free minded and its their culture to do what ever they want. I have watch a bit of their stream online and I have not seen the team play a single game.. I seen soccer, mortal combat and facebook tetris. All on different occasions, so if the FXO team is taking gsl serious or not then I have no clue.. or maybe I am just tuning into their stream at the wrong time.
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
agreed, he was also given a second shot at the up and down matches through the wild card tournament and declined. He just doesnt seem really driven, he gives off a vibe of being lazy to be honest. He doesnt want to put in the work thats fine , he shouldnt have commited to it in the first place, everyone else there seems to have adjusted fine , why is prince sheth so special? (QXC plans on staying until september i beleive)
On July 12 2011 14:57 ilmman wrote: Well he should of stuck it in there for at least another 2 weeks. It is only 2 weeks after all. Does FXOBoss pay for everything? Assuming that he does then in the Korean culture its disrespectful to turn down something halfway through, but alas Americans are free minded and its their culture to do what ever they want. I have watch a bit of their stream online and I have not seen the team play a single game.. I seen soccer, mortal combat and facebook tetris. All on different occasions, so if the FXO team is taking gsl serious or not then I have no clue.. or maybe I am just tuning into their stream at the wrong time.
I was playing the socer and MK, the tetris was tgun because it was like midnight??? They start training early morning.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
Yea i agree, to me it just seems wierd and rather childish because i go travelling for months at a time and have a blast, he couldnt even last 2 weeks in a foreign country? I guess i expect more out of progamers, i dont expect him to go very far if he cant even be away from home for more than a week or two though.
In a way i sort of agree with you that if he could have handeled it he would have, but from his responses in my wildcard tournament thread and like i said in my previous post he gives off a bit of a vibe of being lazy , its kind of like a "ah fuck it w/e" attitude that i think alot of people that read this think is going through his head. I just cant imagine a grown man getting that homesick especially since hes not even alone hes with his team and his coach. As far as i know he lives by himself/ with a roomate so its not like hes super missing his family ( i could be mistaken , I live on my own and i see my family 2-3 times a month)
Either way its a huge let down to see a progamer behave in this way, if he does have anxiety issues then thats fine , i have my own anxiety issues (agoraphobia) and i understand where hes coming from , my therapist says the best thing for anxiety is to try and comfront it until you feel comfortable in your uncomfortable situation or at least not as disturbed so it would have been really good for him to try and stick it out.
Personally, I think Sheth should of stuck it out. Not because it would change his mind, but 2 weeks of sharing a bathroom is not too much to ask of a teammate.
As a general policy, it's always good to finish what you start (within reason, of course).
I'll still be rooting for Sheth of course, he seems like a decent guy.
i'm rooting for qxc! seems a pretty focused and dedicated player. fans root for players with dedication.
you cant root for some1 who is here then gone tmr.
I suspect other reasons for him leaving. could be promises not fulfilled etc. disagreement with management style / capabilities. inability to make friends etc.
that thing with the rosette stone, no dvd-rom crap..is just full of holes. rosetta stone's content is all online on their website. + you're telling me no1 at GOM can download your DVD into the PCs? no1 at GOM has a laptop/pc with dvd-rom? Could be sheth is being nice to FXO and taking the blame.. i dunno.
pretty sad not going to lie. I understand his decision to not return. But he hit the best person in Code A and it was a close match. Just sad too not see more of him.
I suspect other reasons for him leaving. could be promises not fulfilled etc. disagreement with management style / capabilities. inability to make friends etc.
yer im suspecting he is getting bullied. I dont see why he would throw away an experience like that so easily. I mean just look at him, even i would take measures to bully him just because of the way he looks.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
On July 12 2011 06:52 Shockk wrote: I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
The people criticizing his decision probably have no problem moving around like most adults his age... I've spent a month in Korea on vacation which is more than Sheth and I lived in youth hostels so it's not like I had a lot of privacy. It was a HUGE highlight of my life. So much good food, tons of friends I'm still in contact with today, amusement parks, free BW to watch, noraebang, TONS of clubs, amazing public transit, palaces, beautiful islands, parks, tours, it was great. I know going to Seoul for SC2 wouldn't be about having fun but being exposed to a different culture is worth it by itself.
And you aren't sheth so your experience is meaningless. People aren't generic, monolithic beings that all think and act the same.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Here comes the internet psychology. Lol kid you have no idea about Sheth's mental state.
Personally, I can not fault Sheth in any way for not deciding to return to Korea.
Regardless of his position on the team, he has every single right to make a decision like this in an attempt to preserve his own mental health. Look past the whining and complaining "fans" and their narrow view of the situation, and realize that if Sheth wasn't happy in Korea, there are many negative effects that he could suffer from. The last thing I want is one of my favorite players struggling doing what he loves because of a loss of passion or god forbid a serious case of depression brought on by not being comfortable in his environment.
Starcraft is a game. It may be Sheth's main source of income, but when you boil down the situation to what really matters, nothing is more important than his happiness.
On a side note, I'm finding all of the American bashing in this thread to be pathetic. A desperate attempt to make a low blow in an area that has no relevance to this discussion at all.
On July 12 2011 05:36 jmbthirteen wrote: Did people give Haypro, TLO and Ret this much shit when they left Korea?
Haypro, TLO and Ret weren't GIVEN a spot into Code A. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not living in a ENGLISH speaking pro-gaming house with ALL of their teammates there. Haypro, TLO and Ret were not the CAPTAINS of their team. Haypro, TLO and Ret did not abandon their team in the middle of a team league. Haypro, TLO and Ret stuck it out in a KOREAN SPEAKING pro-gaming house for MUCH longer than 2 weeks. Haypro, TLO and Ret EARNED the respect of the foreign scene for giving it their all when presented with a great opportunity. Sheth threw away an opportunity people would kill for just because he was a little home sick...
HayprO, Ret, and HuK were all given spots in code A. TLO gave up his spot after the rankings were done for Codes A/S in January. I think you're being pretty unfair to Sheth.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Here comes the internet psychology. Lol kid you have no idea about Sheth's mental state.
My entire point is that we can't know his mental state. I gave an example of how my girlfriend is someone who wouldn't be able to do the whole flying out to Korea thing, and as such, it would be possible Sheth is the same way. And because of that possibility, it is unfair to assume Sheth is in a better condition and more capable of handling it. He has a lot of good reason to go to Korea, so he must have even more reason to not go.
Wow, I can't believe how needlessly judgmental people in this thread are being. The bottom line is that no one really knows what prompted his decision to leave and he doesn't owe it to any of us to play this game, period. You make career moves based on your happiness and what you know is best for you regardless of whether kids on TL.net think you're lazy.
Has anyone considered that maybe Sheth thinks that he can't train adequately in Korea because of how uncomfortable he is? This could be the best move for both him and his team.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Here comes the internet psychology. Lol kid you have no idea about Sheth's mental state.
Most of the negative comments in this thread have been major shots that Sheth is a failure at life or abandons everything in his life because he wouldn't go back to Korea for 2 weeks (not like he hadn't been there for a month already). We're far, far past the point of people making statements on Sheth's mental state. At least one in support of it is nice. A lot here can travel well, others can't. Sheth only traveled to his first LAN a few months ago, now he went to Korea. It wasn't working out for him too well and, due to some logistics issues that changed a few things, he decided to head back home a few weeks early in prep for MLG.
Not really a huge deal. But a lot of people are trying to make it out to be.
On July 11 2011 17:07 okay320 wrote: No offense but why didn't Sheth think of all this shit earlier? The korean training environment isn't a secret, the language barrier isn't a secret and living with 10 guys is easy to imagine.
I'm sure there are people in NA who would love the opportunity to train in Korea. When you go there, drop out in 2nd round of code A and leave after 2 weeks it makes the foreigner scene look like a bunch of noobs.
agreed, he was also given a second shot at the up and down matches through the wild card tournament and declined. He just doesnt seem really driven, he gives off a vibe of being lazy to be honest. He doesnt want to put in the work thats fine , he shouldnt have commited to it in the first place, everyone else there seems to have adjusted fine , why is prince sheth so special? (QXC plans on staying until september i beleive)
It has nothing to do about being lazy if you would actually read what he's written. Good god some of the conclusions you people jump to to satisfy your predetermined biases are ridiculous.
On July 12 2011 16:04 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sheth only traveled to his first LAN a few months ago, now he went to Korea. It wasn't working out for him too well and, due to some logistics issues that changed a few things, he decided to head back home.
What are theses issues? did he poop the bed, or what?
Imagine being on a team who traveled to korea to compete with the best. You lean on your best player for support and know that we always have a chance.
Then he says he doesn't want to play in korea anymore and up and leave in the middle of the season. Abandons his team. I don't understand why you couldn't just stick it out for another period of time. Its not like you are going to be there for another year or so.
He should of known what korea was like before he went. Pro players probably told him what it was like. No one is saying he isn't a nice guy. People are saying for someone who is suppose to be "pro", he is just a quitter. He GG'ed before his time was over.
all this reminds me of this "FXO is no rocking GTSL, they are ruining foreign e-sports!" story. Just because he doesn't fulfill people's expectations they feel like he let them down. HE DOESN'T OWE YOU ANYTHING!
On July 12 2011 15:14 Executor1 wrote: Yea i agree, to me it just seems wierd and rather childish because i go travelling for months at a time and have a blast, he couldnt even last 2 weeks in a foreign country? I guess i expect more out of progamers, i dont expect him to go very far if he cant even be away from home for more than a week or two though.
I suspect other reasons for him leaving. could be promises not fulfilled etc. disagreement with management style / capabilities. inability to make friends etc.
yer im suspecting he is getting bullied. I dont see why he would throw away an experience like that so easily. I mean just look at him, even i would take measures to bully him just because of the way he looks.
On July 12 2011 06:52 Shockk wrote: I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
The people criticizing his decision probably have no problem moving around like most adults his age... I've spent a month in Korea on vacation which is more than Sheth and I lived in youth hostels so it's not like I had a lot of privacy. It was a HUGE highlight of my life. So much good food, tons of friends I'm still in contact with today, amusement parks, free BW to watch, noraebang, TONS of clubs, amazing public transit, palaces, beautiful islands, parks, tours, it was great. I know going to Seoul for SC2 wouldn't be about having fun but being exposed to a different culture is worth it by itself.
And you aren't sheth so your experience is meaningless. People aren't generic, monolithic beings that all think and act the same.
On July 12 2011 16:04 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sheth only traveled to his first LAN a few months ago, now he went to Korea. It wasn't working out for him too well and, due to some logistics issues that changed a few things, he decided to head back home.
What are theses issues? did he poop the bed, or what?
i think the real reason is his snoring. he was snoring a lot and sharing rooms with other gamers, and they were getting pissed off at his snoring thats all there is to it.
i can't remember who it was, but in an interview i read one of the FXO members commented on someone snoring at night, saying "you can guess who it was".
Seth made a brave choise here. The life of a pro in Korea isn't Easy. It sometimes reminds my of a documentary I once saw about WoW "gold farmers". He maybe should have considered going to Korea better, but when pursuing a dream you easily ignore the negative aspects of it.
On July 12 2011 15:48 Fishriot wrote: Personally, I can not fault Sheth in any way for not deciding to return to Korea.
Regardless of his position on the team, he has every single right to make a decision like this in an attempt to preserve his own mental health. Look past the whining and complaining "fans" and their narrow view of the situation, and realize that if Sheth wasn't happy in Korea, there are many negative effects that he could suffer from. The last thing I want is one of my favorite players struggling doing what he loves because of a loss of passion or god forbid a serious case of depression brought on by not being comfortable in his environment.
Starcraft is a game. It may be Sheth's main source of income, but when you boil down the situation to what really matters, nothing is more important than his happiness.
On a side note, I'm finding all of the American bashing in this thread to be pathetic. A desperate attempt to make a low blow in an area that has no relevance to this discussion at all.
Lol. get used to the American bashing. Welcome to TL
On July 12 2011 16:38 schaf wrote: all this reminds me of this "FXO is no rocking GTSL, they are ruining foreign e-sports!" story. Just because he doesn't fulfill people's expectations they feel like he let them down. HE DOESN'T OWE YOU ANYTHING!
On July 12 2011 15:14 Executor1 wrote: Yea i agree, to me it just seems wierd and rather childish because i go travelling for months at a time and have a blast, he couldnt even last 2 weeks in a foreign country? I guess i expect more out of progamers, i dont expect him to go very far if he cant even be away from home for more than a week or two though.
I suspect other reasons for him leaving. could be promises not fulfilled etc. disagreement with management style / capabilities. inability to make friends etc.
yer im suspecting he is getting bullied. I dont see why he would throw away an experience like that so easily. I mean just look at him, even i would take measures to bully him just because of the way he looks.
On July 12 2011 06:52 Shockk wrote: I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
The people criticizing his decision probably have no problem moving around like most adults his age... I've spent a month in Korea on vacation which is more than Sheth and I lived in youth hostels so it's not like I had a lot of privacy. It was a HUGE highlight of my life. So much good food, tons of friends I'm still in contact with today, amusement parks, free BW to watch, noraebang, TONS of clubs, amazing public transit, palaces, beautiful islands, parks, tours, it was great. I know going to Seoul for SC2 wouldn't be about having fun but being exposed to a different culture is worth it by itself.
And you aren't sheth so your experience is meaningless. People aren't generic, monolithic beings that all think and act the same.
On July 12 2011 16:04 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sheth only traveled to his first LAN a few months ago, now he went to Korea. It wasn't working out for him too well and, due to some logistics issues that changed a few things, he decided to head back home.
What are theses issues? did he poop the bed, or what?
read his statement page 16 idiot.
ouch, calm down with the name calling. Idiot is a little out of line.
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
On July 12 2011 16:38 schaf wrote: all this reminds me of this "FXO is no rocking GTSL, they are ruining foreign e-sports!" story. Just because he doesn't fulfill people's expectations they feel like he let them down. HE DOESN'T OWE YOU ANYTHING!
On July 12 2011 15:14 Executor1 wrote: Yea i agree, to me it just seems wierd and rather childish because i go travelling for months at a time and have a blast, he couldnt even last 2 weeks in a foreign country? I guess i expect more out of progamers, i dont expect him to go very far if he cant even be away from home for more than a week or two though.
maybe the answer ist: he is not you!
On July 12 2011 15:35 ilmman wrote:
On July 12 2011 15:31 bovi wrote:
I suspect other reasons for him leaving. could be promises not fulfilled etc. disagreement with management style / capabilities. inability to make friends etc.
yer im suspecting he is getting bullied. I dont see why he would throw away an experience like that so easily. I mean just look at him, even i would take measures to bully him just because of the way he looks.
??
On July 12 2011 15:44 Serpico wrote:
On July 12 2011 06:59 fourColo wrote:
On July 12 2011 06:52 Shockk wrote: I like how every second post is by someone who judges Sheth's decision without knowing anything about the background, the reasons, his contract details or other important information.
He went to Korea, he competed, he leaves. His team and manager appear to be ok with it, so his contract probably covers such a case. That he's leaving his team without a captain in the GSL is unfortunate, certainly. But it's not a catastrophe and, let's face it, FXO will need more than moral support and foreigner sympathy to win, they'll get rolled anyway (at least this season).
I'd like to know how many of you loud-mouthed protesters would want to go home again - badly! - after having been in Korea for a while, pursuing your "dream" (or how many other progamers that aren't in Korea but would like to). There are several sayings about the downside of dreams coming true; maybe this has happened to Sheth.
Anyway, his team accepts it, and so should you. And stop judging Sheth unless you know facts.
The people criticizing his decision probably have no problem moving around like most adults his age... I've spent a month in Korea on vacation which is more than Sheth and I lived in youth hostels so it's not like I had a lot of privacy. It was a HUGE highlight of my life. So much good food, tons of friends I'm still in contact with today, amusement parks, free BW to watch, noraebang, TONS of clubs, amazing public transit, palaces, beautiful islands, parks, tours, it was great. I know going to Seoul for SC2 wouldn't be about having fun but being exposed to a different culture is worth it by itself.
And you aren't sheth so your experience is meaningless. People aren't generic, monolithic beings that all think and act the same.
+1
On July 12 2011 16:16 okay320 wrote:
On July 12 2011 16:04 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sheth only traveled to his first LAN a few months ago, now he went to Korea. It wasn't working out for him too well and, due to some logistics issues that changed a few things, he decided to head back home.
What are theses issues? did he poop the bed, or what?
read his statement page 16 idiot.
ouch, calm down with the name calling. Idiot is a little out of line.
So is accusing a grown man of pooping the bed. T_T
I'm surprised he only gave it two weeks. It could have been a serious problem or it just may have been that he was scared living in a new unknown place and had a knee jerk reaction to go home. Who knows. I hope he does well in the future though.
First, we were ashamed of his weight (we can't make fun of July and MC as chubby, as they look anorexic next to him).
Now we're ashamed of his quitter attitude (his reasons were stupid - no CD drives on GOMTV computers, can't live with 10 other people in room which he knew before coming).
It's really a blow to our confidence as foreigners
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Trolling of this level is ruining e-sports.
Seems like he was just giving his honest answer. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he is trolling.
On July 12 2011 15:48 Fishriot wrote: Personally, I can not fault Sheth in any way for not deciding to return to Korea.
Regardless of his position on the team, he has every single right to make a decision like this in an attempt to preserve his own mental health. Look past the whining and complaining "fans" and their narrow view of the situation, and realize that if Sheth wasn't happy in Korea, there are many negative effects that he could suffer from. The last thing I want is one of my favorite players struggling doing what he loves because of a loss of passion or god forbid a serious case of depression brought on by not being comfortable in his environment.
Starcraft is a game. It may be Sheth's main source of income, but when you boil down the situation to what really matters, nothing is more important than his happiness.
On a side note, I'm finding all of the American bashing in this thread to be pathetic. A desperate attempt to make a low blow in an area that has no relevance to this discussion at all.
well lets be thankful that e-sports is not a real sport
if a person of the sheth equivalent in a ( real sport ) like basketball, football, boxing ect
if that (sportsmen) decided in the middle of a tourney or match w/e this isn't me I'm done he could face server consequences to his career or even possible legal action
I'm not saying hes not in the position of someone like Kobe for say and that does apply to him. I'm just saying he should treat it like it regardless, can you imagine if someone like MJ had said hey I'm home sick and I'm done with the rest of the season how bad that would be for his career on so many different levels its stupid. If FXO was a seen by everyone as a sure win in GSTL and Sheth did this and they lost I cant imagine how people would react and what that would do to his career people will love him regardless but still
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Trolling of this level is ruining e-sports.
Seems like he was just giving his honest answer. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he is trolling.
On teamliquid it does. If you dont agree with me you are hurting ESPORTS and trolling
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
I respect your decision Sheth. I have been asia as well, and it was a culture shock for me! But the biggest difference was that I did not have to share rooms wtih 10 other guys!
The only problem i have is that your the team captain and although you admit that leaving the team is a dick move, I feel as if the captain should never bail out. In my opinion a captain of team is a vital role, and it is a privelege that the rest of your teammates votes you as their captain.
On another note, everyone has personal issues. It is not fair to judge others just becuase his/her problems are different from your own.
I hope you had fun in Korea, and good luck on MLG!!! I know we will see u in Korea in the future Sheth!
On July 12 2011 15:48 Fishriot wrote: Personally, I can not fault Sheth in any way for not deciding to return to Korea.
Regardless of his position on the team, he has every single right to make a decision like this in an attempt to preserve his own mental health. Look past the whining and complaining "fans" and their narrow view of the situation, and realize that if Sheth wasn't happy in Korea, there are many negative effects that he could suffer from. The last thing I want is one of my favorite players struggling doing what he loves because of a loss of passion or god forbid a serious case of depression brought on by not being comfortable in his environment.
Starcraft is a game. It may be Sheth's main source of income, but when you boil down the situation to what really matters, nothing is more important than his happiness.
On a side note, I'm finding all of the American bashing in this thread to be pathetic. A desperate attempt to make a low blow in an area that has no relevance to this discussion at all.
well lets be thankful that e-sports is not a real sport
if a person of the sheth equivalent in a ( real sport ) like basketball, football, boxing ect
if that (sportsmen) decided in the middle of a tourney or match w/e this isn't me I'm done he could face server consequences to his career or even possible legal action
I'm not saying hes not in the position of someone like Kobe for say and that does apply to him. I'm just saying he should treat it like it regardless, can you imagine if someone like MJ had said hey I'm home sick and I'm done with the rest of the season how bad that would be for his career on so many different levels its stupid. If FXO was a seen by everyone as a sure win in GSTL and Sheth did this and they lost I cant imagine how people would react and what that would do to his career people will love him regardless but still
I think this is fairly sad, but true. You look at examples such as Terran's history of team-hopping, painuser's monster flake-out in NASL, Naniwa's insulting of NASL, Destiny's signing a contract "under duress" fiasco with coL, and this situation, and it's fairly clear to see that eSports simply isn't a sport at all. This is basically kids doing whatever they want with little-to-no-real-life-repercussions. Can we just be honest and go back to calling it "gaming"? It's as if I applied for a job that required travelling, told my employer that I'd travel/do whatever it takes to succeed, and then reneged on that promise, and still expect to keep my job.. There's a severe disconnect with the real working world that I think most pro gamers suffer from, and it's going to absolutely wreck them once/if their gaming "careers" end. I guess still living with your parents and/or in a house where living expenses are provided for you really doesn't teach you what it means to be a responsible person (i.e. showing up for work, actually having to provide for yourself).
On the other side of the coin (the personal side, rather than the general overview of the industry), it's important for us all to do what keeps us happy and sane. The people that truly enjoy their jobs are in the vast minority, and that sometimes means that your happiness has to be found in your free/social time, because working isn't usually fun..but bills have to be paid when you're an independent person.. I sincerely hope Sheth's choices work out well for him, and that he never regrets passing up on what would be a dreamlike opportunity for many of us. Ideally, this frees up a spot in the FXO team house for someone who would be able to enjoy the experience.
Sad to see the manner zerg wont be playing in the GSTL anymore, but its great that FXO is the type of team that supports what their players decide to do. My already high opinion of them is going up every day. Sheth Fighting!
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Trolling of this level is ruining e-sports.
......How is he a troll? He was just stating his thoughts on the subject
I don't understand all of the hate in this thread. Sheth is a great player, and an incredibly nice guy. I think the situation is totally understandable. Being stuck in a house with several people all of the time would get extremely claustrophobic, and since he doesn't speak the language, going out would be isolating.
Continuing to play in an environment where he is stressed, tired and distracted would probably hurt his play, and possibly the morale of the team in general. I think Sheth made a brave decision to leave. He clearly feels guilty about his decision, but it's probably for the best.
I'm sure he thought a lot about whether or not to go, but until you're there, you have no idea what it will be like.
I want Sheth to be playing wherever he is most comfortable, where we can get to see the best play out of him. He's an amazing player, and maybe Korea just wasn't for him. With the rapid growth we've seen in the West, maybe Korea wont HAVE to be for him either. All I know is I want to see more games from Sheth, I don't care what country he's in when he plays them.
On July 12 2011 06:29 fourColo wrote: When it comes to tournament earnings Jinro has made about 12 times as much as Sheth has. Why would you rather be Sheth than Jinro? Jinro also gets to practice with the best in the world, Sheth does not.
TLO and Ret have made considerably more than Sheth according to the SC2 earnings site as well. Sheth could have easily beat them, he has the potential. And for every Sheth there's probably several dozen Koreans just as good as him that struggle and fail to qualify for Code A every season.
GSL isn't the only tournament but Korea has the highest concentration of talent, there's really no argument to be made about it.
I missed reiterating the perhaps most important bit of my argument - that if Sheth would have been over in Korea and stayed unhappy, he is more likely than not to have posted any results that were even half decent. Depressed people generally don't perform. Do you think he'd have made it to Code S, where the real dough is?
Jinro's earnings are impressive - but he has two semis back-to-back. I'm curious to see what happens on a long enough timeline; how much has Jinro made since dropping down to code A?
Yes, TLO and Ret have made consideraby more than Ret. How much of that was made while they were in Korea? How much did Ret win at Assembly compared to his earnings in the GSL?
I've already admitted to not knowing the fullness of the maths, but tournament earnings are hardly the entirety of a player's income, correct?
You seem to miss the whole point of staying in Korea. You go there to become the best you can be, not necessarily win GSL. But then you can come back to EU/NA and own local competition. This is exactly what Ret/TLO did. This is what Idra did and still does (if there wasn't so many Koreans he would win many more)
On July 12 2011 07:16 Mohdoo wrote: I think people need to consider the fact that Sheth is probably just really weird in terms of how easily he gets homesick. He obviously dedicates a huge portion of his life to SC2, but he can't control how emotional he naturally is.
I don't really see this any differently than an anxiety disorder. He gets mega, mega, mega homesick. If he didn't, he'd stay. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't look down on him. Its really unfortunate that he is socially vulnerable in this way.
I'm sure that if he was able to control his feelings of loneliness and likely depression he experiences from being away from home, he would.
I mean, if he could barely even make it this far, you gotta feel sorry for the guy. It is extremely embarrassing for him to have to tell everyone "Sorry, I got too homesick" to thousands of fans who supported him. I'm sure he'd avoid it in any way possible if he could.
You're making it look like a serious mental issue when in reality it's a development that would arise for a large part of people (if not the majority) placed in such a situation. Please don't dramatize that much.
You're not thinking about this logically. SC2 is Sheth's job. He is dedicating a portion of his life to it that he could otherwise be doing a variety of other things. No one is going to decide to just needlessly throw away a few years of their life doing something half assed. Do you know anyone who would choose to just waste away years of their life?
Sheth knows that there is amazing training opportunity in Korea. He knows how beneficial it could be to what he has chosen to spend his time doing. If he had it in him to stay in Korea, it would be absolutely fucking stupid not to. Sheth doesn't seem like a stupid guy. You gotta realize that there really are people out there who get homesick like this or have other socially dysfunctional problems.
I just can't imagine Sheth is like "Well, sure, I could be really good and accomplish a lot. But on the other hand, its cool to see my mom sometimes and chilling with my homies is fun too. I think I will blow this gigantic opportunity so that I can have dinner with my mom". I just can't see that. There is more to it than that. It might not be the way you are, but Sheth is very likely someone who struggles way, way, way more with homesickness than most people.
My girlfriend, for example, is someone who I simply could not see doing something like this. Moving away from her family was really tough on her, and it was only by living with me that it was remotely possible. And this was moving 1.5 hours away to go to college. Her moving to Korea, away from me and her family would be downright impossible, no matter the motivation or purpose. She simply could *not* ever do it. Because of that, it seems totally possible that Sheth could be the same way. Why couldn't he be? If he's anything like my girlfriend, it has nothing to do with respecting FXO or being dedicated or anything like that. Some people just *can't*.
Trolling of this level is ruining e-sports.
How is it trolling to mention that I am very close to someone who I know would respond the exact same way to moving away from home to another country? My point is that there are plenty of people out there who, no matter how hard they tried, would not be able to comfortably adapt to such a drastic change. And since we know that such people exist, and we are not psychologists who have Sheth as a patient, we can not comment on who Sheth is mentally. We cannot properly judge his mental state, and thus, it is useless to assume he is just a lazy guy. Being super good at SC2 doesn't mean you're super good at everything else :p
I know that it is hard for some people to imagine being like that. Its hard for me to understand how my girlfriend is the way that she is. But I have been around her for so long, that I at least understand how valid and real the issue is. And since I have seen it in one case, it would make no sense for me to say this could not be the case for Sheth, as there is nothing about Sheth that makes it impossible.
On a serious note, beast player, but just because he leaves korea doesnt mean you can anywhere near count him out. He got as good as he is in NA, not korea after all.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
Sheth is easely the best player of FXO so its sad that he has to leavy there but I completely understand him and support hes desicion. The living environment with lot of people in same place, no privacy, no-one other people or services does speak english. He also mentioned that theres no mcdonald and same kinda fastfood places like in europe or us so he doesnt feel good there. You feeling good is after all the most important thing in life.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
I respect your decision Sheth. I have been asia as well, and it was a culture shock for me! But the biggest difference was that I did not have to share rooms wtih 10 other guys!
The only problem i have is that your the team captain and although you admit that leaving the team is a dick move, I feel as if the captain should never bail out. In my opinion a captain of team is a vital role, and it is a privelege that the rest of your teammates votes you as their captain.
On another note, everyone has personal issues. It is not fair to judge others just becuase his/her problems are different from your own.
I hope you had fun in Korea, and good luck on MLG!!! I know we will see u in Korea in the future Sheth!
Wow terrible team captain, just terrible. I have no more respect for sheth and here's a couple reason why.
FIrst of all no cd drives? LOL rofl are you serious that a f#$^ing joke haha. That was the funniest excuse I have ever heard in my life. So ridiculous and if you didn't want to stay don't make up bs excuses.
Secondly be in a house with 12 ppl? Dude you signed in and knew that was the way it was going to work? Like seriously your going to say you didn't know there was going to be this much people there in a training house to train? Just plan ridiculous
3rd at what I am most disgusted at is that your a team captain and you abondoned your team. You make me sick.
Well either way the Koreans are coming out of the gsl and turning up to foreign events. If foreigners like sheth don't step up then the growth of exports might stagnate.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Boss will you fly me to Korea? I'm not very good at Starcraft but I'll be your new team captain and I won't get sad and leave after two weeks because I'm homesick. Many other people, almost all who are certainly better than me at Sc2, would say the exact same thing that I just did. Sheth abandoned the team and I lost a lot of respect for him. If you're not going to do what you agreed to do, get out and get another profession. I heard nothing is hiring. Have fun with that.
The team captain abandons his entire team because he's homesick? This must be a joke or I'm missing something, because if this is all there is to it it shows a severe lack of character. I mean it hasn't even been 2 months has it?
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Manner up, that is all.
How am I being bad mannered? If I can't sit here and tell him why it's a bad choice then you shouldn't be allowed to sit there and support him.
Telling him it was a pathetic choice based on poor character is not telling him how to live his life--it's giving him perspective. Maybe he realizes the repercussions of his choice, but maybe he doesn't (you don't know any more than I do). It might be kind of hard when fanboys will blindly support every decision with blaze and glory no matter what.
This is the most annoying part of Team Liquid. If I says one thing even remotely negative people like you have to come out and act like I'm doing something bigger than giving my opinion.
On July 13 2011 03:37 Hierarch wrote: Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
Why do you care about us enough to reply? Hypocrite.
It's called a discussion board. Why are you here if that's the way you feel about discussion?
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Manner up, that is all.
How am I being bad mannered? If I can't sit here and tell him why it's a bad choice then you shouldn't be allowed to sit there and support him.
Telling him it was a pathetic choice based on poor character is not telling him how to live his life--it's giving him perspective. Maybe he realizes the repercussions of his choice, but maybe he doesn't (you don't know any more than I do). It might be kind of hard when fanboys will blindly support every decision with blaze and glory no matter what.
This is the most annoying part of Team Liquid. If I says one thing even remotely negative people like you have to come out and act like I'm doing something bigger than giving my opinion.
On July 13 2011 03:37 Hierarch wrote: Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
Why do you care about us enough to reply? Hypocrite.
It's called a discussion board. Why are you here if this is the way you feel about discussion?
I just find it annoying when people are trying to put their ideals of what's right and wrong on someone else, you're also not discussing anything you're just lambasting someone for a decision you don't agree with.
You claim it was a pathetic choice based on poor character yet you have no idea if it was a bad choice, doing what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with is always the right choice, doing something you don't like will always yield a less than 100% effort. Being in korea is not the best for everyone regardless what people may think. Players like Ret and idrA have kept a high level of play outside of korea and even played better then when they were there due to being in a better environment that they like. Korea is not for everyone, it is a great place to train but if it's not for you it's not for you, it has nothing to do with character.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Manner up, that is all.
How am I being bad mannered? If I can't sit here and tell him why it's a bad choice then you shouldn't be allowed to sit there and support him.
Telling him it was a pathetic choice based on poor character is not telling him how to live his life--it's giving him perspective. Maybe he realizes the repercussions of his choice, but maybe he doesn't (you don't know any more than I do). It might be kind of hard when fanboys will blindly support every decision with blaze and glory no matter what.
This is the most annoying part of Team Liquid. If I says one thing even remotely negative people like you have to come out and act like I'm doing something bigger than giving my opinion.
On July 13 2011 03:37 Hierarch wrote: Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
Why do you care about us enough to reply? Hypocrite.
It's called a discussion board. Why are you here if this is the way you feel about discussion?
I just find it annoying when people are trying to put their ideals of what's right and wrong on someone else, you're also not discussing anything you're just lambasting someone for a decision you don't agree with.
You claim it was a pathetic choice based on poor character yet you have no idea if it was a bad choice, doing what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with is always the right choice, doing something you don't like will always yield a less than 100% effort. Being in korea is not the best for everyone regardless what people may think. Players like Ret and idrA have kept a high level of play outside of korea and even played better then when they were there due to being in a better environment that they like. Korea is not for everyone, it is a great place to train but if it's not for you it's not for you, it has nothing to do with character.
No I gave my opinion just like you just did. Difference is I'm being attacked for mine just because it's not supportive. I've been having to defend my own opinion. Because that's the TeamLiquid motto--Stone the naysayers!
Also, nice contradiction: "I just find it annoying when people are trying to put their ideals of what's right and wrong"
"doing what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with is always the right choice"
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Manner up, that is all.
How am I being bad mannered? If I can't sit here and tell him why it's a bad choice then you shouldn't be allowed to sit there and support him.
Telling him it was a pathetic choice based on poor character is not telling him how to live his life--it's giving him perspective. Maybe he realizes the repercussions of his choice, but maybe he doesn't (you don't know any more than I do). It might be kind of hard when fanboys will blindly support every decision with blaze and glory no matter what.
This is the most annoying part of Team Liquid. If I says one thing even remotely negative people like you have to come out and act like I'm doing something bigger than giving my opinion.
On July 13 2011 03:37 Hierarch wrote: Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
Why do you care about us enough to reply? Hypocrite.
It's called a discussion board. Why are you here if this is the way you feel about discussion?
I just find it annoying when people are trying to put their ideals of what's right and wrong on someone else, you're also not discussing anything you're just lambasting someone for a decision you don't agree with.
You claim it was a pathetic choice based on poor character yet you have no idea if it was a bad choice, doing what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with is always the right choice, doing something you don't like will always yield a less than 100% effort. Being in korea is not the best for everyone regardless what people may think. Players like Ret and idrA have kept a high level of play outside of korea and even played better then when they were there due to being in a better environment that they like. Korea is not for everyone, it is a great place to train but if it's not for you it's not for you, it has nothing to do with character.
No I gave my opinion just like you just did. Difference is I'm being attacked for mine just because it's not supportive. I've been having to defend my own opinion. Because that's the TeamLiquid motto--Stone the naysayers!
I've never felt that in any thread i've viewed, so no idea where you're getting that. But to each their own, you keep on hating on Sheth, more power to you!
Edit: Got me! you found a small contradiction in my post yet missed the rest of it, +1 point for you, keep on hating it suits you.
obviously he can do what he wants to but he is seriously handicapping himself by not spending time in Korea.
staying and practicing in korea for even just 6 months would benefit his career greatly. i'm disappointed that he can't man up enough to stick it out for the quality practice--even if he hates everything else about living there.
not only that, but he was one of the only players who showed immediate promise on FXO. so despite what his teammates say, i'm sure he is letting them down.
overall this is a very poor choice that shows a serious lack of character.
good luck tho--have fun trying to become the best player you can be while practicing in the worst main region.
People like you disgust me. He knows that the best place to train is Korea you have to be a fucking moron to not realize that there is more to this than "he doesn't like it". Making stupid statements like "he can't even man up enough to stick it out" your incredibly insensitive towards his situation. He's trying to be the best he can and douche bags like you saying he has a "lack of character" don't help. How about you have some kind of consideration for what he has gone through which has obviously been a very uncomfortable time for him, otherwise he wouldn't be leaving, and have some fucking respect. It's pathetic. Manner the fuck up.
Owned.
xD
No, get out.
This is like a kid studying business in college dropping out.. just to go start his own business without a degree. He claims college just "wasn't for him" and that starting his own business without going through college is a much better decision because it's what he is comfortable with. Would you seriously sit there and tell that kid he is doing the right thing?
Just read his post.. the reasons are pathetic. It really does come down to him not being man enough to stick it out for the improvement of himself and his team. Put your fanboyism aside and open your eyes.
How are people suppose to take these players seriously when they can't even take themselves seriously?
Life's about decisions and consequences. This hypothetical kid may succeed, he's likely going to fail and have to live with some repercussions. Sheth made a decision as an adult, I'm sure he knows the consequences of his actions, and he sure doesn't need you to tell him how to live his life.
Manner up, that is all.
How am I being bad mannered? If I can't sit here and tell him why it's a bad choice then you shouldn't be allowed to sit there and support him.
Telling him it was a pathetic choice based on poor character is not telling him how to live his life--it's giving him perspective. Maybe he realizes the repercussions of his choice, but maybe he doesn't (you don't know any more than I do). It might be kind of hard when fanboys will blindly support every decision with blaze and glory no matter what.
This is the most annoying part of Team Liquid. If I says one thing even remotely negative people like you have to come out and act like I'm doing something bigger than giving my opinion.
On July 13 2011 03:37 Hierarch wrote: Why do people care so fucking much what Sheth does with his life? If his team is fine with it and this is what he feels is best for him then why does everyone care so much that they are now disgusted with him and have no respect for him? He gave his reasons, he was apologetic and his team has accepted this decision, so why do people feel the need to get on their high horses and criticize him when they have no idea how the experience in Korea was for him.
Why do you care about us enough to reply? Hypocrite.
It's called a discussion board. Why are you here if this is the way you feel about discussion?
I just find it annoying when people are trying to put their ideals of what's right and wrong on someone else, you're also not discussing anything you're just lambasting someone for a decision you don't agree with.
You claim it was a pathetic choice based on poor character yet you have no idea if it was a bad choice, doing what you feel is right and what you're comfortable with is always the right choice, doing something you don't like will always yield a less than 100% effort. Being in korea is not the best for everyone regardless what people may think. Players like Ret and idrA have kept a high level of play outside of korea and even played better then when they were there due to being in a better environment that they like. Korea is not for everyone, it is a great place to train but if it's not for you it's not for you, it has nothing to do with character.
No I gave my opinion just like you just did. Difference is I'm being attacked for mine just because it's not supportive. I've been having to defend my own opinion. Because that's the TeamLiquid motto--Stone the naysayers!
I've never felt that in any thread i've viewed, so no idea where you're getting that. But to each their own, you keep on hating on Sheth, more power to you!
Of course you wouldn't see it, because you're one of them.
"Hurr, I don't like you giving your ideals on whats right or wrong! You have no place to do that!"
"Durr, but here's my idea of what's right! Get out troll! heuheueh"
It's not a small contradiction, it sets up your entire post to contradict itself. The amount of blindness you show towards everything of the opposite opinion is amazing.
On July 11 2011 15:35 Wren wrote: Woah, gigantic news! Sorry to hear it didn't work out in Korea, hope to hear more positive news from Sheth soon! Sheth FIGHTING!!!
I had huge expectations for sheth. He was definitely the top 3 in FXO (Oz,qxc,Sheth). After all that money spent on the trip he decides to back out. Kinda pathetic. but hey, u gotta do watcha gotta do.
He just missed out on a HUGE opportunity to get considerably better. He's got to sort out his personal things first though, shame it didn't work out. Hopefully the other FXO guys can pick up the slack.
The point I tried to make earlier was that people here don't know the whole story and to judge him and hate him for it is unfair and immature. To see people be so idiotic got me kind of annoyed and the things I said were probably a little out of place but the point still remains that without knowing what actually happened and why he left people should not be judging him and even more so hating him and saying things to insult him personally is silly.
I feel for the FXO owners.. I mean he is pouring his heart and soul into his team. I heard he invested his money to send select members to korea to participate in the GSL (I may be wrong), so I expect them to fulfil the duration because its a paid for by FXO, and their key players gone missing brings it down. Where is moonglade btw, shouldn't be come as well? Common FXO guys ur boss is putting hope into ya guys and helping the scene grow. I wish the FXO tournaments gets more publicity because it is really exciting to watch and sometimes different types of tournaments makes it interesting.
All in all I hope fxo is making profits for their investment because dayme they need some publicity.. AND PLzzz get a big SC2 in Australia please I wana watch some live games in a conference centre at least once in my life.
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
Although I have the same problem it comes simply from not being used to living with other people in my room. I absolutely understand that the team house is too big of a step from private living, on the other hand Korea is what's FXO about and their house in Malaysia should provide enough living space for him to come back after MLG. You cannot really support/hate him for it, the problem I see is that he got on the team, the team accepted him and now he has to take it slow. S**t happens.
On July 13 2011 04:13 Zedex wrote: The point I tried to make earlier was that people here don't know the whole story and to judge him and hate him for it is unfair and immature. To see people be so idiotic got me kind of annoyed and the things I said were probably a little out of place but the point still remains that without knowing what actually happened and why he left people should not be judging him and even more so hating him and saying things to insult him personally is silly.
I attacked his decision. And we do know what happen, did you read the post by Sheth? We know what happened, we don't know every facet of the case, but i can come to conclusions based on what we were given. Its a job, not a hobby, if he can't take the heat, get someone who can.
I just listened to Sheth talk about this on Destiny's stream, and I totally support his decision to not go back. A trip to Korea can be a good experience, but staying there isn't for everybody. If eSports continues to grow in the West as it has, and teams start to push their players more, it hopefully won't be necessary to move to Korea to be one of the best.
Maybe some people would feel better about this... if Sheth used his own money to go to Korea like Torch did. But he didn't and now FXO is footing his entire bill. I suppose that's what many are upset over.
That's too bad about Sheth, but it makes me respect Jinro and Huk more who truly want to compete with the best and have the passion and determination to stick with the tough korean training regimen.
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Quoted for super awesomeness
This! IMO if foreigners aren't willing to make the sacrifices it takes to compete with the Koreans, neither the foreigners themselves nor their fans have any right to complain about Koreans coming and winning all of our tournaments.
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Naniwa is my new hero. Jinro and Huk have ambitions. <3
They have ambitions to make money, at the cost of sucking. Actually with koreans coming over, they can say goodbye to their monetary ambitions as well.
When you work hard, you get rewarded. You'll never succeed if you take the easy way out of life. Now koreans will forever be better AND richer. gg foreigners.
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Naniwa is my new hero. Jinro and Huk have ambitions. <3
They have ambitions to make money, at the cost of sucking. Actually with koreans coming over, they can say goodbye to their monetary ambitions as well.
When you work hard, you get rewarded. You'll never succeed if you take the easy way out of life. Now koreans will forever be better AND richer. gg foreigners.
I don't understand why a lot of the progamers don't understand this. If they let this trend continue, eventually Koreans are just gonna get better and better exponentially while we are still lagging behind. They are in damn near the perfect environment for getting better, and we think that the way we practice is gonna keep up? step your games up if you want to keep food coming in. You are competing for your jobs validity
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Naniwa is my new hero. Jinro and Huk have ambitions. <3
They have ambitions to make money, at the cost of sucking. Actually with koreans coming over, they can say goodbye to their monetary ambitions as well.
When you work hard, you get rewarded. You'll never succeed if you take the easy way out of life. Now koreans will forever be better AND richer. gg foreigners.
Pretty much this. I'm not going to BM Sheth - he can whatever the hell he wants, its his life, but I don't understand the mind set a lot of the Western pro-gamers seem to have. At the end of the day its your job, and unlike other professions there isn't much middle ground for being 'ok but not great.' You either work your ass off or do something else if you want to make a living. I also can't imagine it being profitable at all for FXO to pay for flights etc for gamers (pure speculation here), so it seems even crazier that you'd tell your team and sponsors you were going home.
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Quoted for super awesomeness
This! IMO if foreigners aren't willing to make the sacrifices it takes to compete with the Koreans, neither the foreigners themselves nor their fans have any right to complain about Koreans coming and winning all of our tournaments.
I totally agree with imke55. From what I have heard, more and more BW players will soon transition over to SC2 when their contracts finishes or when KESPA starts organize SC2 tournaments. When that day comes, it will be near impossible to win anything unless you are in Korea and practice with the best.
On July 13 2011 05:09 Naniwa wrote: i dont understand why nobody wants to stay in korea.. doesnt anyone have ambitions
Quoted for super awesomeness
This! IMO if foreigners aren't willing to make the sacrifices it takes to compete with the Koreans, neither the foreigners themselves nor their fans have any right to complain about Koreans coming and winning all of our tournaments.
I totally agree with imke55. From what I have heard, more and more BW players will soon transition over to SC2 when their contracts finishes or when KESPA starts organize SC2 tournaments. When that day comes, it will be near impossible to win anything unless you are in Korea and practice with the best.
I have no doubt the foreigner scene could create a similar atmosphere if they would just take it seriously. I'm not sure what the regiment is in the (few) team houses we have, but I'm positive it isn't as hardcore as the Korean houses.
In case people have forgotten, Koreans are not genetically better at Starcraft. They are, however, culturally better at applying themselves. As other people in this thread have mentioned, if the foreign pros aren't willing to put in the time and effort (not just Sheth) the gap will keep widening, and nothing will stop Koreans from flying all over the world to compete with other Koreans in foreign tournaments.
I sure hope Sheth doesn't read anything in this thread as it is mostly uncalled for criticism by a bunch of idiots who have no perspective on Sheth's life or the decisions he makes. From what I can tell he didn't want to go to Korea in the first place. I doubt when he signed with FXO or accepted the captaincy it was in his contract that he had to go to Korea.
I have been living in Mexico City for 5 months (originally from Canada) and I can completely understand the difficulty of being away from friends/family/gf etc... I never had the opportunity to return home after 2 weeks, but I can say that at that point you are feeling the loneliness the MOST. I did get the opportunity to return after 6 months (instead of 1 year) and I leaped at the opportunity. Living away from family/friends can be really hard for some people, and judging from Sheth's personality I can completely understand how hard it would be for him.
Further, everyone in this thread who thinks playing in Korea is the only way to be good at SC2 you have no idea. Sure a lot of Koreans have won a lot of things, but they had a head start. Every NA or EU player that has come out of obscurity to be a SC2 pro has done it BY THEMSELVES in their own homes. Korea is not the end all of SC2 and very soon these opinions will be shown to be foolish. NA and EU will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but it will take time.
@Sheth: I hope you haven't read this bilge, but if you are reading I completely understand and support your decision. I'm sure it was really hard for you to make that decision but I expect it was the right one for you. Keep on keepin' on bro!
Further, everyone in this thread who thinks playing in Korea is the only way to be good at SC2 you have no idea. Sure a lot of Koreans have won a lot of things, but they had a head start. Every NA or EU player that has come out of obscurity to be a SC2 pro has done it BY THEMSELVES in their own homes. Korea is not the end all of SC2 and very soon these opinions will be shown to be foolish. NA and EU will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but it will take time.
How about the fact that recent tournaments have shown that a few select koreans sent overseas have practically dominated eu/na tournaments. And those that are sent aren't GSL champs but rather ones showing potential. And Huk is showing results, like BIG results.
There are a number of things we should learn from here, and not hate.
This is weird but let's think about IdrA. He's been in Korea for several years...and became the person we know today. That shows persistence, professionalism, willingness to work in an environment which didn't favor him, forced him to learn Korean, learn foreign things which were surely harsh on him.
But if there's yet another thing that we should learn from IdrA, that's this:
When something isn't going your way, don't waste time. Get out quickly and move on.
And that's what Sheth did. So really - while you guys are saying this and that about Sheth, always remember the IdrA lesson.
On July 13 2011 06:40 algorithm0r wrote: I sure hope Sheth doesn't read anything in this thread as it is mostly uncalled for criticism by a bunch of idiots who have no perspective on Sheth's life or the decisions he makes. From what I can tell he didn't want to go to Korea in the first place. I doubt when he signed with FXO or accepted the captaincy it was in his contract that he had to go to Korea.
I have been living in Mexico City for 5 months (originally from Canada) and I can completely understand the difficulty of being away from friends/family/gf etc... I never had the opportunity to return home after 2 weeks, but I can say that at that point you are feeling the loneliness the MOST. I did get the opportunity to return after 6 months (instead of 1 year) and I leaped at the opportunity. Living away from family/friends can be really hard for some people, and judging from Sheth's personality I can completely understand how hard it would be for him.
Further, everyone in this thread who thinks playing in Korea is the only way to be good at SC2 you have no idea. Sure a lot of Koreans have won a lot of things, but they had a head start. Every NA or EU player that has come out of obscurity to be a SC2 pro has done it BY THEMSELVES in their own homes. Korea is not the end all of SC2 and very soon these opinions will be shown to be foolish. NA and EU will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but it will take time.
@Sheth: I hope you haven't read this bilge, but if you are reading I completely understand and support your decision. I'm sure it was really hard for you to make that decision but I expect it was the right one for you. Keep on keepin' on bro!
I agree with you in that Sheth needs to do what is best for him, but it's true that foreign pros in general don't seem to have the drive to improve and succeed that Korean players do.
And I disagree about your last point. How did Koreans get a head start? If anything, the foreign scene dug into SC2 more hungrily because they saw it as their chance for a fresh start, because the skill gap in BW was so wide. As for a head start, foreigners had the same opportunities to create team houses and training programs that Koreans did.
Yes, over time NA and EU players will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but by that time, Koreans will be even better. "Catching up" to them implies that somehow the foreign scene is working harder and faster, because there is already a skill gap. It has everything to do with the atmosphere that so many pros seem to dislike, but you can't say that it doesn't have positive results on their play.
There is a lot of money at stake in major foreign tournaments. Koreans are training like they want it, foreigners are training like they deserve it.
On July 13 2011 06:40 algorithm0r wrote: I sure hope Sheth doesn't read anything in this thread as it is mostly uncalled for criticism by a bunch of idiots who have no perspective on Sheth's life or the decisions he makes. From what I can tell he didn't want to go to Korea in the first place. I doubt when he signed with FXO or accepted the captaincy it was in his contract that he had to go to Korea.
I have been living in Mexico City for 5 months (originally from Canada) and I can completely understand the difficulty of being away from friends/family/gf etc... I never had the opportunity to return home after 2 weeks, but I can say that at that point you are feeling the loneliness the MOST. I did get the opportunity to return after 6 months (instead of 1 year) and I leaped at the opportunity. Living away from family/friends can be really hard for some people, and judging from Sheth's personality I can completely understand how hard it would be for him.
Further, everyone in this thread who thinks playing in Korea is the only way to be good at SC2 you have no idea. Sure a lot of Koreans have won a lot of things, but they had a head start. Every NA or EU player that has come out of obscurity to be a SC2 pro has done it BY THEMSELVES in their own homes. Korea is not the end all of SC2 and very soon these opinions will be shown to be foolish. NA and EU will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but it will take time.
@Sheth: I hope you haven't read this bilge, but if you are reading I completely understand and support your decision. I'm sure it was really hard for you to make that decision but I expect it was the right one for you. Keep on keepin' on bro!
Actually, you have no idea. Do you know how much the koreans practice? Do you know what kind of environment they live in? Do you know why they don't stream? Have you heard about a progaming team's internal ranking system?
If you know any of these things, try to compare it to progamers who are busy streaming and offering coaching lessons, and try to find out who's probably going to be the become the better player.
Also, you mention "its gonna take some time." Time happens to be what the foreigners are running out of. The gap is already increasing and will only continue to get bigger at this rate. Don't be so ignorant.
It disappoints me to see the number of people bashing Sheth. It's easy for a fan to say "oh you should just work harder/more intensely/more regimented in the Korean ways!" from our standpoint...but it's obviously not an easy thing.
A post I saw on page 30 or something sums this up for me perfectly: "damn why do you disappoint me, Sheth?" <-- fan self-centeredness. First, an actual fan would understand Sheth's view - sure, they can be personally sad that Sheth won't play in Korea, but to say that Sheth disappointed THEM implies that Sheth is some sort of servant of their wants, which is obviously ridiculous. The second issue is the sheer commitment overload.
Yes, everybody wants to win. But having done my share of competitive events, I can tell you that while everyone wants to win, there comes a certain point where what it takes to win comes at a high price and even does not guarantee its own victories. Going to Korea does not guarantee that you will then dominate, Huk and Jinro have become heroes for their breakthroughs, but even Jinro has hit a slump, and the other TL players have left without that big of a splash. At this point, it becomes a huge personal cost (sacrificing your free-living lifestyle, being with family, etc.) for an uncertain gain.
Now, this is not to disparage the efforts of those going to Korea. I also can easily recognize the merits of those who have that ambition, that drive - I admire it, because that IS a key factor in success in whatever form they may strive to achieve. I'm still rooting for Jinro to keep powering it strong and return to his glory. What I am saying, though, is that this decision is a personal one based on how each person can weigh the costs of dedication and their efforts and ambitions in striving for success. Only that individual person can know when that price becomes too high for himself and hurts his overall ambitions. That said, glhf to Sheth and to all who are going to Korea, I sincerely hope you reach whatever goals and dreams you pursue.
On July 13 2011 06:40 algorithm0r wrote: I sure hope Sheth doesn't read anything in this thread as it is mostly uncalled for criticism by a bunch of idiots who have no perspective on Sheth's life or the decisions he makes. From what I can tell he didn't want to go to Korea in the first place. I doubt when he signed with FXO or accepted the captaincy it was in his contract that he had to go to Korea.
I have been living in Mexico City for 5 months (originally from Canada) and I can completely understand the difficulty of being away from friends/family/gf etc... I never had the opportunity to return home after 2 weeks, but I can say that at that point you are feeling the loneliness the MOST. I did get the opportunity to return after 6 months (instead of 1 year) and I leaped at the opportunity. Living away from family/friends can be really hard for some people, and judging from Sheth's personality I can completely understand how hard it would be for him.
Further, everyone in this thread who thinks playing in Korea is the only way to be good at SC2 you have no idea. Sure a lot of Koreans have won a lot of things, but they had a head start. Every NA or EU player that has come out of obscurity to be a SC2 pro has done it BY THEMSELVES in their own homes. Korea is not the end all of SC2 and very soon these opinions will be shown to be foolish. NA and EU will figure out ways to be just as good as Koreans, but it will take time.
@Sheth: I hope you haven't read this bilge, but if you are reading I completely understand and support your decision. I'm sure it was really hard for you to make that decision but I expect it was the right one for you. Keep on keepin' on bro!
I would have a little faith in this post if it was made maybe 8 months ago, when GSL was filled with bad players and bad games. However since then, there's no basis for "NA/EU will soon be better than Koreans". Koreans are absolutely better and the skill gap has only widened over the months.
Also I don't know why you went off on that tangent. Nobody is disappointed in Sheth for skipping on Korean training. It's not like he was the next HuK or anything. People were disappointed that FXO was being abandoned by their captain mid-season.
I don't criticize Sheth for his decision to leave Korea, certainly there is more to the story and maybe he really was just exhausted to the point of making him under-perform.
However, I think Sheth needs to ask himself if he wants to be a progamer who makes money and is respected by his peers/teammates. Additionally if he does want to pursue a real progaming career, he needs to decide if he is capable of making the sacrifices necessary to reach that goal.
On July 13 2011 05:06 JustPassingBy wrote: I wonder, if Korea failed that hard, how will he be able to stay in the team house in malaysia?
Well, there is a big difference between a flat full of smelly nerds and a big villa with housemaids and a swimming pool . So as far as privacy goes I feel like the team house "should" be acceptable for him. Then again, it's up to FXO and Sheth, about his obligations or lack of thereof.
EDIT: Damn, we've actually been annoying his family, people really should calm down .
I'd like to hear a korean's perspective on living in a team house and practicing for long hours. Based on my own experience as a Chinese American, I have a feeling that foreigners are not well suited for the team house model.
Take a Korean team. Everyone in the house is Korean and share a similar background. It's easy to share food, everyone has a good understanding of everyone elses customs. In a foreign team, people come from different countries with different cultural and religious backgrounds, different food preferences, different cleanliness standards, etc... I think the "living on your own with team house as the workplace" model that Sheth mentions is more ideal for a foreign team.
the best part is that the foreigners doesn't need to come to korea. the koreans are willing to travel and make some extra money from foreigners that arn't on the same level as koreans.
Watching the videos from the team houses, where it's typical that Korean players sleep on the floor, have multiple guys to one bedroom...I can kinda see how moving from home to that type of environment would be a huge shock to your system.
Who knows how FXO's teamhouse was setup, maybe it was setup to be more foreigner-friendly, but what I'm trying to say is, it probably wasn't any one thing that bothered Sheth enough for him to throw in the towel. It was surely a snowball little things here and there, and finally the homesickness topped it all off, and decision to leave was simply the light at the end of the tunnel.
You work hard, only to see that it's a life not worth living.
On July 14 2011 07:03 D_K_night wrote: Watching the videos from the team houses, where it's typical that Korean players sleep on the floor, have multiple guys to one bedroom...I can kinda see how moving from home to that type of environment would be a huge shock to your system.
Who knows how FXO's teamhouse was setup, maybe it was setup to be more foreigner-friendly, but what I'm trying to say is, it probably wasn't any one thing that bothered Sheth enough for him to throw in the towel. It was surely a snowball little things here and there, and finally the homesickness topped it all off, and decision to leave was simply the light at the end of the tunnel.
You work hard, only to see that it's a life not worth living.
So you GG now, before it's too late.
Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense. I hope we'll get to see him in "our" tournaments then, such as Dreamhack and MLG, and possibly next NASL. I actually didn't check the info on the second season, it's been so busy for me in the last few days that I feel I need to take a deep breath.
Every time I watch some tournament with friends, I think we all pretty much root for him when we see him.
On July 14 2011 07:03 D_K_night wrote: Watching the videos from the team houses, where it's typical that Korean players sleep on the floor, have multiple guys to one bedroom...I can kinda see how moving from home to that type of environment would be a huge shock to your system.
Who knows how FXO's teamhouse was setup, maybe it was setup to be more foreigner-friendly, but what I'm trying to say is, it probably wasn't any one thing that bothered Sheth enough for him to throw in the towel. It was surely a snowball little things here and there, and finally the homesickness topped it all off, and decision to leave was simply the light at the end of the tunnel.
You work hard, only to see that it's a life not worth living.
So you GG now, before it's too late.
Yeah that actually makes a lot of sense. I hope we'll get to see him in "our" tournaments then, such as Dreamhack and MLG, and possibly next NASL. I actually didn't check the info on the second season, it's been so busy for me in the last few days that I feel I need to take a deep breath.
Every time I watch some tournament with friends, I think we all pretty much root for him when we see him.
We like Sheth!
You mean the tournaments where Koreans now go an win everything (usually top3 spots that give most money)
I think FXO should think seriously at Sheth's complaints and consider creating a team house. I know they have a FXO mansion but how viable is it since its not located near Soul? Also this goes on GOM's shoulders for not finding a bigger place to house FXO. They should have done everything in their power to accomodate FXO comfortably.
That is totally understandable. Its not worth suffering through if you dont think it will help you. I wanna see you tearing up some upcoming tournys. <3 and also i miss seeing on the stream :D <33333333333
I read pretty much every post in this entire thread, including Sheth's explainations. This whole thing is pretty laughable.
1) I wanted to install rosetta stone but they didn't have CDROM drives (when you buy rosetta stone online you download it, if you bought a retail copy you can still download the media files and use your key on the sleeve)
2) I wanted to go home after the GSTL but learned due to flight restrictions I would have to experience Korea an additional two weeks. This is unacceptable.
3) Korea is for people who are about 5 foot 1 inch and roughly 98lbs dripping wet
All being said, it's completely obvious to anyone paying attention to this that Sheth offered to sleep over your house, but then called his mom and asked for her to come pick him up. He knows it's a dick move, but he's doing it anyways.
You put faith in people, and then they bring their personal problems to work. Time was, shame would keep this behavior in check. Seems like shame has been nerfed over the past couple decades
On July 14 2011 09:27 onedayclose wrote: I think FXO should think seriously at Sheth's complaints and consider creating a team house. I know they have a FXO mansion but how viable is it since its not located near Soul? Also this goes on GOM's shoulders for not finding a bigger place to house FXO. They should have done everything in their power to accomodate FXO comfortably.
GOM has had this house since long before FXO moved into it. It was made for invidiual foreigners to come over and compete in the GSL, not for whole teams to. FXO was aware of what they were getting into when they decided to go, it's not GOM's fault at all.
I'm not sure if I would stay in korea if I was sheth either. No chance to really win the GSTL games with FXOPENS korean team. also- in terms of general respect and living I'm not sure what the stigma is about weight or being fat but I could see some korean youths being treacherous to sheth on the streets.
On State of the Game, Sheth said his mom actually reads the forums to keep up with what's going on with Sheth. It makes me sad that she might've seen all the negative crap some of you guys wrote about him. Now that's a mom who cares and supports his son for being in e-sports. Could you blame the guy for missing his family?
On July 15 2011 14:41 OPL3SA2 wrote: I read pretty much every post in this entire thread, including Sheth's explainations. This whole thing is pretty laughable.
1) I wanted to install rosetta stone but they didn't have CDROM drives (when you buy rosetta stone online you download it, if you bought a retail copy you can still download the media files and use your key on the sleeve)
2) I wanted to go home after the GSTL but learned due to flight restrictions I would have to experience Korea an additional two weeks. This is unacceptable.
3) Korea is for people who are about 5 foot 1 inch and roughly 98lbs dripping wet
All being said, it's completely obvious to anyone paying attention to this that Sheth offered to sleep over your house, but then called his mom and asked for her to come pick him up. He knows it's a dick move, but he's doing it anyways.
You put faith in people, and then they bring their personal problems to work. Time was, shame would keep this behavior in check. Seems like shame has been nerfed over the past couple decades
How is it laughable at all? It is Sheth's personal choice to go home for many different reasons which are his own. You can go on and on about what you might have done in his shoes, but the fact of the matter is that he is going back to America for MLG and the like.
1. Sheth's issues with Rosetta Stone were completely legitimate for him. Perhaps he could have downloaded the program off of some external server, but Rosetta Stone is an expensive investment regardless. I'm sure that if Sheth wants to go to Korea for any great length of time he would like to learn about the culture and immerse himself in the Korean lifestyle. Language is the barrier which bars him from doing this.
2. With MLG Anaheim coming up, Sheth wanted to be able to spend time with his family before playing over in America. Certainly he could have stayed in Korea for the remainder of that time, but it is understandable why he took the early flight home rather than wait. After all there were other conditions which he was not particularly happy with at the time as well, and besides, MLG is tiring in and of itself. Nothing like some family time to prepare yourself for it.
3. That is a pretty silly statement. Sheth explained that he enjoyed Korea, but some of the living conditions weren't for him. Maybe some people do not like to be cramped together in a small room, no?
And what is all this about shame and other crap? Sheth did stay in Korea for the majority of his prescribed travel time. Sure he did not stay and watch the rest of his team play in the GSTL, but that was his choice. Get over it. It sure does annoy me when some people make these hardcore posts detailing exactly what should happen without putting themselves in their target's shoes. Be a bit more lenient. After all, I believe Sheth said that he would like to go to Korea again after he has had a bit more time to prepare himself for the experience.
And as for all that crap about sleeping over and what not, it's more like Sheth came over to your house for five days out of the week and then requested to go home for the last two so that he could see his family for a couple days before going back to school....
On July 15 2011 14:41 OPL3SA2 wrote: I read pretty much every post in this entire thread, including Sheth's explainations. This whole thing is pretty laughable.
1) I wanted to install rosetta stone but they didn't have CDROM drives (when you buy rosetta stone online you download it, if you bought a retail copy you can still download the media files and use your key on the sleeve)
2) I wanted to go home after the GSTL but learned due to flight restrictions I would have to experience Korea an additional two weeks. This is unacceptable.
3) Korea is for people who are about 5 foot 1 inch and roughly 98lbs dripping wet
All being said, it's completely obvious to anyone paying attention to this that Sheth offered to sleep over your house, but then called his mom and asked for her to come pick him up. He knows it's a dick move, but he's doing it anyways.
You put faith in people, and then they bring their personal problems to work. Time was, shame would keep this behavior in check. Seems like shame has been nerfed over the past couple decades
How is it laughable at all? It is Sheth's personal choice to go home for many different reasons which are his own. You can go on and on about what you might have done in his shoes, but the fact of the matter is that he is going back to America for MLG and the like.
1. Sheth's issues with Rosetta Stone were completely legitimate for him. Perhaps he could have downloaded the program off of some external server, but Rosetta Stone is an expensive investment regardless. I'm sure that if Sheth wants to go to Korea for any great length of time he would like to learn about the culture and immerse himself in the Korean lifestyle. Language is the barrier which bars him from doing this.
2. With MLG Anaheim coming up, Sheth wanted to be able to spend time with his family before playing over in America. Certainly he could have stayed in Korea for the remainder of that time, but it is understandable why he took the early flight home rather than wait. After all there were other conditions which he was not particularly happy with at the time as well, and besides, MLG is tiring in and of itself. Nothing like some family time to prepare yourself for it.
3. That is a pretty silly statement. Sheth explained that he enjoyed Korea, but some of the living conditions weren't for him. Maybe some people do not like to be cramped together in a small room, no?
And what is all this about shame and other crap? Sheth did stay in Korea for the majority of his prescribed travel time. Sure he did not stay and watch the rest of his team play in the GSTL, but that was his choice. Get over it. It sure does annoy me when some people make these hardcore posts detailing exactly what should happen without putting themselves in their target's shoes. Be a bit more lenient. After all, I believe Sheth said that he would like to go to Korea again after he has had a bit more time to prepare himself for the experience.
And as for all that crap about sleeping over and what not, it's more like Sheth came over to your house for five days out of the week and then requested to go home for the last two so that he could see his family for a couple days before going back to school....
i don't really care for reason 2 and 3 but reason 1 come on thats ridiculous lol
The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
IF you were a progamer, and you were serious about it, Korea should be the place to be. This decision makes it seem that Sheth was never that serious about progaming at all. Just a side job.
On July 16 2011 13:35 Crissaegrim wrote: IF you were a progamer, and you were serious about it, Korea should be the place to be. This decision makes it seem that Sheth was never that serious about progaming at all. Just a side job.
All the best to you nonetheless.
I think it's just anxiety/feeling out of place, homesick, uncomfortable... Korea isn't even necessarily the place to be any more, btw.
It's a shame but as the saying goes, if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen. Looks like Sheth simply couldn't handle the heat. I can see him being a fantastic national player, but nothing more with this kind of mentality. Sorry to see you leave Sheth.
On July 16 2011 13:35 Crissaegrim wrote: IF you were a progamer, and you were serious about it, Korea should be the place to be. This decision makes it seem that Sheth was never that serious about progaming at all. Just a side job.
All the best to you nonetheless.
I think it's just anxiety/feeling out of place, homesick, uncomfortable... Korea isn't even necessarily the place to be any more, btw.
Korea is the place more now than at any point in SC2's release.
On July 16 2011 13:35 Crissaegrim wrote: IF you were a progamer, and you were serious about it, Korea should be the place to be. This decision makes it seem that Sheth was never that serious about progaming at all. Just a side job.
All the best to you nonetheless.
I think it's just anxiety/feeling out of place, homesick, uncomfortable... Korea isn't even necessarily the place to be any more, btw.
So being homesick is greater than being a profressional SC2 gamer? That's what Sheth is telling us.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
Wow, so many assumptions while not knowing almost anything about sheth. Damn that's an embarrassing post. He wants to live in Korea under his terms and has never said practicing a lot was an issue. You're a bit overzealous with how much you seem to love to evaluate how "passionate" and "professional" someone is from a very small chain of events.
Making the move to a country half way across the world is always going to be a bigger sacrifice than any Korean player would have to make because they never have to adapt to anything but the practice hours and living conditions. Foreigners have to go much further out of their element, plus there's everyone here drunk with the idea that practicing 10 hours a day in a foreign team house not in Korea just isn't good enough.
On July 16 2011 10:48 JediGamer wrote: I'm not sure what the stigma is about weight or being fat but I could see some korean youths being treacherous to sheth on the streets.
....Yes, Koreans hate fat people. If you're fat, those treacherous Korean kids will throw tomatoes at you on the street.
Haha, come on, that's just stretching things too far. Just look at July and how popular he is.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
Wow, so many assumptions while not knowing almost anything about sheth. Damn that's an embarrassing post. He wants to live in Korea under his terms and has never said practicing a lot was an issue. You're a bit overzealous with how much you seem to love to evaluate how "passionate" and "professional" someone is from a very small chain of events.
Making the move to a country half way across the world is always going to be a bigger sacrifice than any Korean player would have to make because they never have to adapt to anything but the practice hours and living conditions. Foreigners have to go much further out of their element, plus there's everyone here drunk with the idea that practicing 10 hours a day in a foreign team house not in Korea just isn't good enough.
Your response is completely irrelevant to the point I was making--I'm fairly certain I was being clear enough but apparently not.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
SC2 Pro: the only profession where you should be ashamed of spending time with your family. On Sheth's deathbed I'm sure he will say his only regret was not spending more time away from his loved ones.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
SC2 Pro: the only profession where you should be ashamed of spending time with your family. On Sheth's deathbed I'm sure he will say his only regret was not spending more time away from his loved ones.
There's no reason to be ashamed of spending time with your family. There is reason to be ashamed of breaking a commitment because you want to spend time with your family when you knew it was a consequence from the start--I'm quite certain this is not limited to the SC2 profession. Sheth himself admitted in his post on page 3 that this is a "dick move"; but sadly acknowledging the fact does little to make the reality of the matter any better.
I would be extremely displeased with a coworker or friend who made a promise to me knowing what it entailed, only to break it because of said knowledge they already possessed. How do you depend on someone that does that? How does someone run an efficient business with an employee like that?
Umm I think this is acceptable. Being in the GOM house gives you no privacy at all. I'm sure everyone here don't act like your normal self when you are with other people. I guess its hard for Sheth to put up that shield 24/7.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
SC2 Pro: the only profession where you should be ashamed of spending time with your family. On Sheth's deathbed I'm sure he will say his only regret was not spending more time away from his loved ones.
There's no reason to be ashamed of spending time with your family. There is reason to be ashamed of breaking a commitment because you want to spend time with your family when you knew it was a consequence from the start--I'm quite certain this is not limited to the SC2 profession. Sheth himself admitted in his post on page 3 that this is a "dick move"; but sadly acknowledging the fact does little to make the reality of the matter any better.
I would be extremely displeased with a coworker or friend who made a promise to me knowing what it entailed, only to break it because of said knowledge they already possessed. How do you depend on someone that does that? How does someone run an efficient business with an employee like that?
He was committed to South Korea for like 4 weeks. He knew from the start that he was going to see his family after the 4 weeks but then he learned later that if he went back for the last week he was going to have to miss out on seeing them when he promised them. Actually he's keeping his promise, its FXO that couldn't get him back to the states after the gstl is over.
Edit: and jesus christ calm down. You're acting like he personally made a promise to you to stay in Korea for another week. He doesn't owe a damn thing to you. You don't know how the agreement was between Sheth and FXO or how it came to be that they're not sending Sheth back to Korea.
honestly? that's quite the disappointment, I mean, why not stay in Korea and learn and get better? He beat san for christs sake! that's quite a big deal and does he not realize he is still in Code A for beating him? I hope he reconsiders because being in Code A is a pretty big deal and I think he has a great chance to succeed because of his personality.
I'm sure he has his reasons, but I really feel like he could do well over there.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
Wow, so many assumptions while not knowing almost anything about sheth. Damn that's an embarrassing post. He wants to live in Korea under his terms and has never said practicing a lot was an issue. You're a bit overzealous with how much you seem to love to evaluate how "passionate" and "professional" someone is from a very small chain of events.
Making the move to a country half way across the world is always going to be a bigger sacrifice than any Korean player would have to make because they never have to adapt to anything but the practice hours and living conditions. Foreigners have to go much further out of their element, plus there's everyone here drunk with the idea that practicing 10 hours a day in a foreign team house not in Korea just isn't good enough.
Quite frankly, if you want to be the absolute best, then it's completely true that practicing 10 hours in a foreigner house not in Korea isn't good enough. The fact that only Koreans and those with Korean training have won major LANs lately is evidence enough that the Korean way of training is the best and nothing else is good enough IF you want to be the best you can be.
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
SC2 Pro: the only profession where you should be ashamed of spending time with your family. On Sheth's deathbed I'm sure he will say his only regret was not spending more time away from his loved ones.
There's no reason to be ashamed of spending time with your family. There is reason to be ashamed of breaking a commitment because you want to spend time with your family when you knew it was a consequence from the start--I'm quite certain this is not limited to the SC2 profession. Sheth himself admitted in his post on page 3 that this is a "dick move"; but sadly acknowledging the fact does little to make the reality of the matter any better.
I would be extremely displeased with a coworker or friend who made a promise to me knowing what it entailed, only to break it because of said knowledge they already possessed. How do you depend on someone that does that? How does someone run an efficient business with an employee like that?
He was committed to South Korea for like 4 weeks. He knew from the start that he was going to see his family after the 4 weeks but then he learned later that if he went back for the last week he was going to have to miss out on seeing them when he promised them. Actually he's keeping his promise, its FXO that couldn't get him back to the states after the gstl is over.
Edit: and jesus christ calm down. You're acting like he personally made a promise to you to stay in Korea for another week. He doesn't owe a damn thing to you. You don't know how the agreement was between Sheth and FXO or how it came to be that they're not sending Sheth back to Korea.
Haha, calm down? People are really only reading what they want to read--apparently my words are being interpreted as a fit of rage and vengeance directed towards Sheth. I never followed Sheth as a player so I don't have some delusion that he owes me anything. My opinion of the matter is based off the information that is available concerning the situation irregardless of the actors--I'm not making an assumption that there was or was not a more comprehensive agreement at hand because neither Sheth nor FXO has stated it as such.
As for scheduling mistakes and changes, failure in that regard should be attributed to both parties involved. In such a case, there still remains a choice to either continue supporting the people depending on you, or the other more selfish decision of returning to the comforts of home. I'm sure it's obvious at this point which choice I approve of.
That being said, I'm done commenting on the matter since all I'm getting are heated responses under the perception that I'm denouncing Sheth. In actuality, I'm simply viewing this case in comparison to any other business profession, considering the growth of esports as a legitimate profession is currently a much-talked about issue in the west.
On July 16 2011 13:35 Crissaegrim wrote: IF you were a progamer, and you were serious about it, Korea should be the place to be. This decision makes it seem that Sheth was never that serious about progaming at all. Just a side job.
All the best to you nonetheless.
I think it's just anxiety/feeling out of place, homesick, uncomfortable... Korea isn't even necessarily the place to be any more, btw.
It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
People are acting like this is a rare or unamendable problem but tons of professional athletes have dealt with it but you don't hear about it because they stuck it out. Their dedication trumps everything else.
Derek Jeter soon will break Lou Gehrig's Yankee hit record, but it wasn't so long ago that even the perpetually-confident Jeter didn't believe anything like this was possible. Jeter, the Yankee shortstop now known as a great player, a great champion, struggled so much early in the minors he wondered if he had made a mistake choosing professional baseball.
The skinny 18-year-old shortstop who was prone to errors and needed four hits on the final day of his first season to hoist his batting average over .200, called back home to Kalamazoo, Mich., most nights, sometimes in tears. He doubted he belonged, at least once telling a member of the Yankee organization, "I don't think I'm going to make it."
"At one time," recalls Don Zomer, Jeter's coach at Kalamazoo Central High School, "I remember him saying, 'The Yankees wasted a lot of their money.'" ... "There's huge power in the true example of how he got to where he is," Newman says. "It was tough, but he got through it."
On July 16 2011 13:28 Jeity wrote: The defense of Sheth based on "unknown personal issues" is frankly, embarrassing. It doesn't matter who the player is or what the field of work is--this kind of conduct is unprofessional, period. In other lines of work people may never get the kind of opportunity Sheth was given no matter how hard they try; yet here it was being offered on a silver platter only to be refused due to ultimately minor personal discomfort. You hear tales about people who start off living in dingy apartments and surviving off of cup ramen, and I can only find this particular tale to be a sad one in light of what others have gone through to pave the way.
The difference here is that in Korea the majority of players pursue Starcraft as a professional sport, while all too many non-Koreans give the impression of simply trying to make money out of a hobby because they believe it to be easier than doing so through a non-gaming job.
Going to Korea or not going is not a problem. While competing in the holy land is indeed the surest way to make a name for yourself in the game, I do believe there are ways that non-Koreans can bring themselves up to the same level with management strategies tailored to their own cultures and circumstances. I can only imagine this has yet to happen because too many players are wasting time whining about what they don't have or justifying their decisions with shabby reasoning.
I'm not personally a fan of players like Naniwa, Thorzain, or qxc--but I do have huge respect for them especially in comparison to their less passionate peers. The image they've built is that of players who want to pursue the game as professionals. When you want something strongly enough it doesn't matter if you have to live in an unfamiliar country with an unfamiliar language and unfamiliar people. Sacrifice is part of the payment.
For me, this type of news does two things: disappoint, and make me question how much some players really want it. I hope that in the future players will make a greater effort in earning the "professional" in "professional gamer"; because until then all they are is a "gamer", and I can do that by sitting at home in front of my computer.
SC2 Pro: the only profession where you should be ashamed of spending time with your family. On Sheth's deathbed I'm sure he will say his only regret was not spending more time away from his loved ones.
The people who spend a lot of their time with their family in sports generally aren't the people worth interviewing.
Well I hope this guy isn't watching the GSTL because if he is he should be feeling pretty damn guilty for letting his team down BIG TIME.
We don't know the full story so it's impossible to be over critical but "not for him" is the official reason and frankly that's pathetic, how old is this guy 12?
Sheth is the best player on fxo and with him on the team fxo stood a chance of taking some games but now.... all killed every day.
The guy's a grown man, he's stood up on page 3 and admitted his decision. I think the people trying to white knight on his behalf are misguided. Its a dick move, we all know its a dick move. He decided to move to Korea and he backed out when he saw it wasn't for him. We all think he should have stuck it out, so does he in admitting the dick move, but he didn't. Thats a shame.
He's still a nice guy I'm sure, this only reflects on one small part of his character (I have plenty of friends that inexplicably change their mind once and a while - so what). He's also still a very good player.
On July 16 2011 10:48 JediGamer wrote: I'm not sure what the stigma is about weight or being fat but I could see some korean youths being treacherous to sheth on the streets.
....Yes, Koreans hate fat people. If you're fat, those treacherous Korean kids will throw tomatoes at you on the street.
Haha, come on, that's just stretching things too far. Just look at July and how popular he is.
Being american you may not have ever experienced this, but in some parts of asia people will jeer and laugh quite loudly at fat foreigners. Not just the exceptionally obese ones either.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Koreans repeatedly roflstomping non-Koreans in the events they've attended.
Idra is the most obvious example. Losing twice to Zenio in NASL, losing to Boxer (who at this point is one of the weaker Korean terrans), etc. etc.
Idra is a worse player now than he was during his Korean stint. I think that's pretty clear. He admits that he doesn't practice enough, and most non-Korean pros complain that they don't practice enough. I've heard Idra say that the Korean practice regime is detrimental...
Which is entirely right. It's detrimental to your chances of losing.
On July 16 2011 10:48 JediGamer wrote: I'm not sure what the stigma is about weight or being fat but I could see some korean youths being treacherous to sheth on the streets.
....Yes, Koreans hate fat people. If you're fat, those treacherous Korean kids will throw tomatoes at you on the street.
Haha, come on, that's just stretching things too far. Just look at July and how popular he is.
Being american you may not have ever experienced this, but in some parts of asia people will jeer and laugh quite loudly at fat foreigners. Not just the exceptionally obese ones either.
I had lived in Korea for over a decade, and I still have a lot of friends over there as well. Never seen it happen and never heard about anything like that happening either. At least not in Korea.
Of course, fat kids will sometimes be made fun of in elementary school, but doesn't that happen everywhere else?
On July 11 2011 16:21 mdb wrote: Of course its hard to stay with 10 guys in one room the whole day, it was hard for Flash, it was hard for Jaedong, it was hard for Nada, it was hard for Idra, It is hard for Huk and Jinro, but thats the price to pay if you want to be a champion. No love for the quitters.
Bullshit. I can 100% understand him, some people just need their privacy more than others.
Most of you have obviously never travelled, lived in a harsh environment and then come home for a week or two.
The pull of home is really difficult to resist. If he came home, he's made the right decision. It is also not oddly enough, as Sheth himself said, a dickish move. You're there to win Starcraft games. If you don't think the experience is going to help you, you don't stay. End of.
Korean pro houses sound like a miserable experience for virtually no pay, in a country you don't know, speaking a language you don't understand.
The people who spend a lot of their time with their family in sports generally aren't the people worth interviewing.
Paul Scholes. He plays at a club less than 3 miles away from where he was born. He plays and practices every single day. He takes his kids to watch Oldham on the weekend. He lives less than 10 miles away from where he was born. He goes home every single day to see his family and shunned the limelight, preferring to spend the evening with his children having a kickabout.
He's also probably the greatest living English midfielder. He retired aged 36, 4 years after most players are crocked. In terms of individual skill level, there is no comparison between what he is to football and a similar pro player in Starcraft. I have yet to see anyone make SC2 an art.
Most really legendary footballers have a stable family life. It's silly to say otherwise.
On July 17 2011 03:33 Evangelist wrote: Paul Scholes. He plays at a club less than 3 miles away from where he was born. He plays and practices every single day. He takes his kids to watch Oldham on the weekend. He lives less than 10 miles away from where he was born. He goes home every single day to see his family and shunned the limelight, preferring to spend the evening with his children having a kickabout.
He's also probably the greatest living English midfielder. He retired aged 36, 4 years after most players are crocked. In terms of individual skill level, there is no comparison between what he is to football and a similar pro player in Starcraft. I have yet to see anyone make SC2 an art.
Most really legendary footballers have a stable family life. It's silly to say otherwise.
That just the luck of the draw. He was born in an location where the infrastructure is present to compete at the highest level, and that's a unique position to be in. Same thing can't (at least not at the moment) for any place outside of Korea (and more specifically the greater seoul area). It's a lot easier to 'get lucky' in football, because most top clubs still have a regionally based youth training system.
(And the reason tabloids love footballers isn't that they can take pictures of them taking their kids to the movies or whatever, but that's neither here nor there.)
The insensitivity in this thread is astounding! Sheth is generally known as one of the nicest, most down to earth foreign pro-gamers. The dude streams for charity, and it so supportive of everyone he interacts with. Then he's forced to make probably one of the hardest decisions in his life based on the reasoning that he is NOT HAPPY, and you guys throw him to the wolves.
Why on earth do you have the right to tell someone that they should sacrifice their happiness? Sheth is obviously upset about this and had to make a tough call, respect him for standing up for himself and hopefully making the right choice for himself. Trading happiness for your career is a dangerous path that almost never has a happy ending.
I feel Sheth's reasoning here. As someone who has lived on my own for a while now, I tend to think of my home as my sanctuary. It's a place for me to go to and relax and have some peace, quiet, and privacy at the end of the work day. I would most certainly not be okay with going from this to a situation where I was in an apartment with 10 other guys all day every day for any extended amount of time, regardless of how much I enjoyed the profession. Were I a progamer, the only way I'd do the team thing is if I had my own place nearby and commuted to the team house every day for practice.
Well, I can agree with Sheth's decision. Staying in close proximity with 10 people is difficult enough. I couldn't take staying in close proximity with 6 other guys for 3 days, it got wearisome.
Hopefully Sheth can continue to do well, and maybe he'll move to the Malaysian house later on.
if people want to consider sc2 a sport and fxo a team they should kick sheth, this is just sad.
That guy is on some other planet. SC2 isn't like other sports where it is necessary to be physically present to practice with the team.
On July 17 2011 03:33 Evangelist wrote: Most of you have obviously never travelled, lived in a harsh environment and then come home for a week or two.
The pull of home is really difficult to resist. If he came home, he's made the right decision. It is also not oddly enough, as Sheth himself said, a dickish move. You're there to win Starcraft games. If you don't think the experience is going to help you, you don't stay. End of.
It IS a dick move. Quick dickish in fact. Bailing on your team when you're their captain and ace, and they have virtually no chance without you... Is the definition of a dick move.
Too many of you are forgetting that Sheth had a team that was relying on him. If he was there alone, it'd be different, but all of you saying stuff like "why should Sheth have to sacrifice his happiness" or something like that need to realize that Sheth made a commitment to his team and to his job, and that is why he should have to sacrifice his happiness. Maybe it's just the type of person I am, but if I were in his shoes, I'd stick it out until the end of the GSTL because it would be my job to do so.
On July 17 2011 03:33 Evangelist wrote: Most of you have obviously never travelled, lived in a harsh environment and then come home for a week or two.
The pull of home is really difficult to resist. If he came home, he's made the right decision. It is also not oddly enough, as Sheth himself said, a dickish move. You're there to win Starcraft games. If you don't think the experience is going to help you, you don't stay. End of.
It IS a dick move. Quick dickish in fact. Bailing on your team when you're their captain and ace, and they have virtually no chance without you... Is the definition of a dick move.
Too many of you are forgetting that Sheth had a team that was relying on him. If he was there alone, it'd be different, but all of you saying stuff like "why should Sheth have to sacrifice his happiness" or something like that need to realize that Sheth made a commitment to his team and to his job, and that is why he should have to sacrifice his happiness. Maybe it's just the type of person I am, but if I were in his shoes, I'd stick it out until the end of the GSTL because it would be my job to do so.
And people like you are neglecting the fact that Sheth is one of the nicest and most manner people in the world. HE SAID HIMSELF, that it was a dick move, but its what he needs. If anyone is acting like a dick here, it's you. You're making bold statements without fully understanding the situation and...reality check...YOURE NOT SHETH. You can't comment on how he feels, everyone here knows Sheth wouldn't just 'abandon'' FXO without a good reason, and on page 3, and on SOTG, he has made his good reasons clear.
Personally I think this thread should be closed, it's just turning into a flame war, when it doesn't need to be.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Have you not been watching any major SC2 tournament in the past 6 months? All the winners have been Korean, have Korean training regiments, or have the Korean ladder.
MLG Columbus - MMA, LosirA, MC DH 2011- HuK, Moon, Bomber, July HSC3- HuK, NaniwA (Who is going to KR), and MC NASL- Puma, MC, Sen (Sen is in TW, I don't know his practice regiment, but he practices frequently on KR, and now that KR+TW is merged, his practice will be the KR ladder through and through)
Not to mention all the TL-Opens being won by Koreans, and in fact sweeping 1-2-3 by Koreans. Sure there's easy money, but it's not so easy when the Koreans decide to come to battle for the money.
On July 17 2011 06:02 echO [W] wrote: HSC3- HuK, NaniwA (Who is going to KR), and MC
NaniwA is going to KR, and that proves your point how? He could do a Sheth. He's more a counter to your argument - he's been doing very well and yet does not train in Korea etc.
On July 17 2011 06:02 echO [W] wrote: HSC3- HuK, NaniwA (Who is going to KR), and MC
NaniwA is going to KR, and that proves your point how? He could do a Sheth. He's more a counter to your argument - he's been doing very well and yet does not train in Korea etc.
Naniwa said himself that HuK is a better player than him due to his korean practice though, Seriously, this isn't even up for discussion, Korean practice pays off.
Also I'd add IEM Grand Finals to the list. That is imo the best example of the impact of Korean practice.
On July 17 2011 03:33 Evangelist wrote: Most of you have obviously never travelled, lived in a harsh environment and then come home for a week or two.
The pull of home is really difficult to resist. If he came home, he's made the right decision. It is also not oddly enough, as Sheth himself said, a dickish move. You're there to win Starcraft games. If you don't think the experience is going to help you, you don't stay. End of.
It IS a dick move. Quick dickish in fact. Bailing on your team when you're their captain and ace, and they have virtually no chance without you... Is the definition of a dick move.
Too many of you are forgetting that Sheth had a team that was relying on him. If he was there alone, it'd be different, but all of you saying stuff like "why should Sheth have to sacrifice his happiness" or something like that need to realize that Sheth made a commitment to his team and to his job, and that is why he should have to sacrifice his happiness. Maybe it's just the type of person I am, but if I were in his shoes, I'd stick it out until the end of the GSTL because it would be my job to do so.
And people like you are neglecting the fact that Sheth is one of the nicest and most manner people in the world. HE SAID HIMSELF, that it was a dick move, but its what he needs. If anyone is acting like a dick here, it's you. You're making bold statements without fully understanding the situation and...reality check...YOURE NOT SHETH. You can't comment on how he feels, everyone here knows Sheth wouldn't just 'abandon'' FXO without a good reason, and on page 3, and on SOTG, he has made his good reasons clear.
Personally I think this thread should be closed, it's just turning into a flame war, when it doesn't need to be.
I'm a dick for thinking it's wrong to abandon your team in the middle of a tournament? lol
so I guess I'd be a dick if Kobe decided to quit the Lakers mid-season and I thought that was a bad thing too.
some people just don't understand the concept of commitment these days.
On July 17 2011 03:33 Evangelist wrote: Most of you have obviously never travelled, lived in a harsh environment and then come home for a week or two.
The pull of home is really difficult to resist. If he came home, he's made the right decision. It is also not oddly enough, as Sheth himself said, a dickish move. You're there to win Starcraft games. If you don't think the experience is going to help you, you don't stay. End of.
It IS a dick move. Quick dickish in fact. Bailing on your team when you're their captain and ace, and they have virtually no chance without you... Is the definition of a dick move.
Too many of you are forgetting that Sheth had a team that was relying on him. If he was there alone, it'd be different, but all of you saying stuff like "why should Sheth have to sacrifice his happiness" or something like that need to realize that Sheth made a commitment to his team and to his job, and that is why he should have to sacrifice his happiness. Maybe it's just the type of person I am, but if I were in his shoes, I'd stick it out until the end of the GSTL because it would be my job to do so.
And people like you are neglecting the fact that Sheth is one of the nicest and most manner people in the world. HE SAID HIMSELF, that it was a dick move, but its what he needs. If anyone is acting like a dick here, it's you. You're making bold statements without fully understanding the situation and...reality check...YOURE NOT SHETH. You can't comment on how he feels, everyone here knows Sheth wouldn't just 'abandon'' FXO without a good reason, and on page 3, and on SOTG, he has made his good reasons clear.
Personally I think this thread should be closed, it's just turning into a flame war, when it doesn't need to be.
I'm a dick for thinking it's wrong to abandon your team in the middle of a tournament? lol
so I guess I'd be a dick if Kobe decided to quit the Lakers mid-season and I thought that was a bad thing too.
some people just don't understand the concept of commitment these days.
I just don't see how you can argue against that. Whatever his reasons, he quit on his team in the middle of a tournament. That's the bottom line here, not whether he misses home, or whether he can't bear to stay in korea, its that he quit. There's no need to attack people that are dissapointed in him for that, becuase in fact, it is what he did. Whether its right or wrong, is up to Sheth himself to determine, but when it comes down to it, he did QUIT on his team.
I'm sorry, just because he's a pro gamer, it doesn't give him any special treatment. So many of us travel for work and stay away for extended periods of time. How is going to Korea any different from the thousands of kids that go abroad for university for months at a time without going home.
I myself travel a lot for work, for periods as long as 3 months without going back home. This is the modern age, there is skype to voice chat or webcam, or instant messaging to chat online, you just need to adjust and learn to deal with it, and figure out the time zone differences.
I don't get why people are here defending him. So many times people on TL say how Koreans "have it easy because they have a more developed gaming infrastructure" well this it the "developed infrastructure" guys. People being crammed into a room. They don't like it either but they realize that's what you need to succeed. If foreigners aren't ready to make that sacrifice then they aren't ready to dominate. This is honestly the last time I want to hear how Koreans are lucky for getting team practice houses, because they give up a lot.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
Agreed. And this is why I feel gamers like Naniwa and Thorzain show infinitely more drive and desire than the NA players who are too comfortable at home to challenge themselves (aside from HuK of course).
Being a progamer was never meant to be luxurious. All of us "regular" people have to work hard for our money too.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
Agreed. And this is why I feel gamers like Naniwa and Thorzain show infinitely more drive and desire than the NA players who are too comfortable at home to challenge themselves (aside from HuK of course).
Being a progamer was never meant to be luxurious. All of us "regular" people have to work hard for our money too.
30k a year for working 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
Agreed. And this is why I feel gamers like Naniwa and Thorzain show infinitely more drive and desire than the NA players who are too comfortable at home to challenge themselves (aside from HuK of course).
Being a progamer was never meant to be luxurious. All of us "regular" people have to work hard for our money too.
30k a year for working 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.
Or be really good like MC and win 200k/yr not counting salary :D
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
Agreed. And this is why I feel gamers like Naniwa and Thorzain show infinitely more drive and desire than the NA players who are too comfortable at home to challenge themselves (aside from HuK of course).
Being a progamer was never meant to be luxurious. All of us "regular" people have to work hard for our money too.
30k a year for working 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.
There are people with worse situations in the world. And you fail to mention that 'working' entails playing a video game. You also overestimate the workload by a significant margin; no one in SC2 practices that much (or at least, no one is forced to like in Brood War.) Read the interview with Slayers Jessica and she mentions that they want their members to have a healthy life outside of the game.
And finally, if you don't like it, then don't let the door hit you on the way out. Either call yourself a professional and do what it takes to be the best at what you love (in which case money should not even be a factor) or don't call yourself a 'professional' without having the results to back it up.
Everyone who is hating on Sheth on this thread listen to Sotg 43 and repent...It is funny to see people act like they know the circumstances of something like this when they don't. If people didn't care so much about stroking their own ego by putting forth their views that make them seem good and Sheth bad maybe they would try to learn the facts and stop looking like arrogant asses.
It is not Sheth's lack of commitment, dedication or distate of Korea that made him make the decision to not come back, but multiple completely valid reasons that he says on Sotg 43, that anyone sane would not blame him for.
If Sheth wasn't one of the best players on the team, I'd imagine he would be cut immediately for pulling such a selfish move.
EDIT: Looking back, my comments were out of line, not knowing the hardships that awaited Sheth at the progaming house and living in a foreign enviorment. Especially when directed at such an esteemed player. I really am sorry and hope Sheth will accept my apology.
In case you guys are wondering about how the Korean fans are taking this, at least half of the community considers Sheth as a something of a laughing stock.
Though the admins at PlayXP are trying their best to white-knight Sheth. :/
On July 17 2011 09:31 carltron wrote: If Sheth wasn't one of the best players on the team, I'd imagine he would be cut immediately for pulling such a selfish move.
And you Carltron are exactly why I hate the teamliquid forum. For the most part it is just a bunch of people who sit on their asses who judge people without knowing the truth or circumstances and frankly don't care enough to find them out as long as they get their daily self righteous dose in of the day.
On July 17 2011 06:02 echO [W] wrote: HSC3- HuK, NaniwA (Who is going to KR), and MC
NaniwA is going to KR, and that proves your point how? He could do a Sheth. He's more a counter to your argument - he's been doing very well and yet does not train in Korea etc.
While that may be true, most of NaniwA's HSC3 games were PvPs, which at the moment is a bit coin-flippy.
Also, Naniwa himself knows that the best way to do well and excel in the game is to move to Korea and play in Korea, the ladder and the Korean regiments, he himself posted in this thread.
On July 17 2011 09:31 carltron wrote: If Sheth wasn't one of the best players on the team, I'd imagine he would be cut immediately for pulling such a selfish move.
And you Carltron are exactly why I hate the teamliquid forum. For the most part it is just a bunch of people who sit on their asses who judge people without knowing the truth or circumstances and frankly don't care enough to find them out as long as they get their daily self righteous dose in of the day.
Is it supposed be ironic that you're exactly what you're describing? How are you posting on here... not sitting on your ass? Are you standing up?
1) Stop acting self righteous. You aren't morally superior to anyone here, so can the high and mighty attitude you tool.
2) You cite SotG, well guess what not everyone listens to that and fawns over every word coming from it. So if you're going to cite an unrelated source that is not mentioned in the original post, you should calmly paraphrase the information you want to convey rather than rage at others who don't listen to SotG.
On July 17 2011 06:02 echO [W] wrote: HSC3- HuK, NaniwA (Who is going to KR), and MC
NaniwA is going to KR, and that proves your point how? He could do a Sheth. He's more a counter to your argument - he's been doing very well and yet does not train in Korea etc.
Except that tournament in question had 1 Korean in it, and Huk as a second person training in Korea. So yes, I certainly hope that at least one non-Korean/training-in-Korea will be in the top 3 if there's only 2.
On July 16 2011 15:57 Jibba wrote:It is. It absolutely 100% is. The people that left early for "easy money" have all made a mistake.
What the fuck do you base this on?
Tournament results and observed skill? At this point it's basically ludicrous to argue that training in Korea doesn't make you better. And really, if you actually take playing SC2 seriously, I don't see how you could argue against training to be the best.
Perhaps if you have a real reason like you have a family/job, or your mother is sick so you don't want to leave your home country, but "It's kind of uncomfortable and the environment is different" is a rather impotent reason.
Agreed. And this is why I feel gamers like Naniwa and Thorzain show infinitely more drive and desire than the NA players who are too comfortable at home to challenge themselves (aside from HuK of course).
Being a progamer was never meant to be luxurious. All of us "regular" people have to work hard for our money too.
If I was 10 years younger I'd do it in a heartbeat. Doing something you love and even get paid while doing it. ( I mean, how many feel horrible in their current job? )
30k a year for working 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week.
On July 17 2011 09:33 JiPrime wrote: In case you guys are wondering about how the Korean fans are taking this, at least half of the community considers Sheth as a something of a laughing stock.
Though the admins at PlayXP are trying their best to white-knight Sheth. :/
On July 17 2011 09:33 JiPrime wrote: In case you guys are wondering about how the Korean fans are taking this, at least half of the community considers Sheth as a something of a laughing stock.
Though the admins at PlayXP are trying their best to white-knight Sheth. :/
Aren't you just back from a temp ban for being a shit-stirrer?
Bummer about Sheth, though it isn't terribly surprising given previous anecdotal evidence ("LAN-dodging" and resulting lack of experience in the limelight). Props to FXO for caring as much about their players.
EPT
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