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On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:
This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either.
There's a lot to like about the NASL, and I'll continue to support it. Already, the Season 2 roster is absolutely bonkers.
But will I support it for $25, as I did with Season 1? Uggggghhhhh .... tough call. And it's not simply a matter of spotty and inconsistent production. There just way more games than I'm capable of watching.
If they offered a discount for the Season 1 subscribers that "dug deep" and lived through their growing pains, than I'd probably resubscribe. If it's still $25, I'm just going to save up and try to catch as many games as I can live.
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I watched Day 1 and Day 2 and agree with all the comments and suggestions in the first post.
Camera being so far from the casters and where ppl were allowed to walk in front of it was not professional. Pls Pls Pls check the audio of the mics.
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On July 11 2011 09:55 Whitewing wrote:
Fix the open bracket issue, a lot of people don't like that a player can win the open bracket then get a fair shot at first place when all the league participants put in way more time and effort (even though it doesn't make it actually easier).
Maybe put the top 2 people in from each division and then the last spot, instead of going to an open bracket player goes to the person with the best record from the league play that didn't make the top 2 of his own division.
I like the open bracket idea. It gives relatively unknown or unpopular players a chance to show their skill. If Puma would have applied via applications, I don't think he would have had even been considered to be put in the regular pool.
And come on, it wasn't that bad for the regular players (except for the Koreans who had to wake up at absurd times). They didn't have to play every day, 8 hours a day, for 9 weeks as some people are making it sound. They played around once a week- in the comfort of their own home- in their underwear if they chose to.
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On July 11 2011 10:48 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:
This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either.
There's a lot to like about the NASL, and I'll continue to support it. Already, the Season 2 roster is absolutely bonkers. But will I support it for $25, as I did with Season 1? Uggggghhhhh .... tough call. And it's not simply a matter of spotty and inconsistent production. There just way more games than I'm capable of watching. If they offered a discount for the Season 1 subscribers that "dug deep" and lived through their growing pains, than I'd probably resubscribe. If it's still $25, I'm just going to save up and try to catch as many games as I can live.
Yeah, to me 25 dollars isn't worth it. I'm willing to occasionally pay for it for GSL, but only so that I can catch vods and not stay up all night. Since NASL is during the day I can usually just watch the matches that I want to live.
On July 11 2011 10:52 Dantat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 09:55 Whitewing wrote:
Fix the open bracket issue, a lot of people don't like that a player can win the open bracket then get a fair shot at first place when all the league participants put in way more time and effort (even though it doesn't make it actually easier).
Maybe put the top 2 people in from each division and then the last spot, instead of going to an open bracket player goes to the person with the best record from the league play that didn't make the top 2 of his own division. I like the open bracket idea. It gives relatively unknown or unpopular players a chance to show their skill. If Puma would have applied via applications, I don't think he would have had even been considered to be put in the regular pool. And come on, it wasn't that bad for the regular players (except for the Koreans who had to wake up at absurd times). They didn't have to play every day, 8 hours a day, for 9 weeks as some people are making it sound. They played around once a week- in the comfort of their own home- in their underwear if they chose to.
Agreed, especially since when the NASL started Puma was an unknown, and now so many other players have fell and others have risen- DRG wasn't big when NASL started, for example, and now MVP hasn't shown results in the longest time.
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Next time lower the prize pool and hire a production team that can do a nice stage setup with nice booths and good video and audio production.
I really dont care how much the prize pool is i want a tournament that is fun to watch. Like HSC
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On July 11 2011 10:57 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:48 Defacer wrote:On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:
This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either.
There's a lot to like about the NASL, and I'll continue to support it. Already, the Season 2 roster is absolutely bonkers. But will I support it for $25, as I did with Season 1? Uggggghhhhh .... tough call. And it's not simply a matter of spotty and inconsistent production. There just way more games than I'm capable of watching. If they offered a discount for the Season 1 subscribers that "dug deep" and lived through their growing pains, than I'd probably resubscribe. If it's still $25, I'm just going to save up and try to catch as many games as I can live. Yeah, to me 25 dollars isn't worth it. I'm willing to occasionally pay for it for GSL, but only so that I can catch vods and not stay up all night. Since NASL is during the day I can usually just watch the matches that I want to live. Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:52 Dantat wrote:On July 11 2011 09:55 Whitewing wrote:
Fix the open bracket issue, a lot of people don't like that a player can win the open bracket then get a fair shot at first place when all the league participants put in way more time and effort (even though it doesn't make it actually easier).
Maybe put the top 2 people in from each division and then the last spot, instead of going to an open bracket player goes to the person with the best record from the league play that didn't make the top 2 of his own division. I like the open bracket idea. It gives relatively unknown or unpopular players a chance to show their skill. If Puma would have applied via applications, I don't think he would have had even been considered to be put in the regular pool. And come on, it wasn't that bad for the regular players (except for the Koreans who had to wake up at absurd times). They didn't have to play every day, 8 hours a day, for 9 weeks as some people are making it sound. They played around once a week- in the comfort of their own home- in their underwear if they chose to. Agreed, especially since when the NASL started Puma was an unknown, and now so many other players have fell and others have risen- DRG wasn't big when NASL started, for example, and now MVP hasn't shown results in the longest time.
If the NASL was all a live event like the GSL, I'd happily pay up the $25. As it stands I can't bring myself to pay that amount of money for a mostly online tournament.
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On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 09:52 ZergMaestro wrote:
No fluff.
Use the casters you fly in from korea more. inc, and gre are not as fun to watch as taste, and artosis.
The sound was horrible as fuck. How is it possible to have that shitty of quality control with the sound? fire anyone who had anything to do with the sound.
Less horrible awkward fucking singing. Get better interviewers. I mean I like to look at pretty girls and all, but im watching this to nerd out, and watch some fucking video games. Let artosis do the interviews.
QUALITY CONTROL. QUALITY CONTROL. This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either. Its just your ego loving to criticise and point out mistakes. Its not easy to produce an event like this. Its not hard either. Its insanely fucking hard. You speak like an incensed child raging at an adult for not giving him exactly what he wants and how he wants it, unable to understand that an adult is human as well.
QFT
I will gladly be paying for a season 2 HD pass. Much better bang for the buck than GSL.
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I've really liked NASL. Considering the limited resources they've had at their disposal, it's been a great effort to get it to where it is.
One thing I'd suggest is using an industrial designer (if possible) for the offline event. It looks a bit drab and dull on the stream when you see the stage and the boothes. There's definitely scope to glam it up a bit!
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Finals made up for alot of the issues, but they still can't be overlooked. Also the after game interviews were awful all event long, the puma interview after the finals was just urg. Did enjoy inc and gretorp casting the finals though  Day9 and tastosis seemed highley underused and tbh it was probably a waste of money to even bring them. Easy money for them though i guess :d
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United States7483 Posts
On July 11 2011 10:52 Dantat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 09:55 Whitewing wrote:
Fix the open bracket issue, a lot of people don't like that a player can win the open bracket then get a fair shot at first place when all the league participants put in way more time and effort (even though it doesn't make it actually easier).
Maybe put the top 2 people in from each division and then the last spot, instead of going to an open bracket player goes to the person with the best record from the league play that didn't make the top 2 of his own division. I like the open bracket idea. It gives relatively unknown or unpopular players a chance to show their skill. If Puma would have applied via applications, I don't think he would have had even been considered to be put in the regular pool. And come on, it wasn't that bad for the regular players (except for the Koreans who had to wake up at absurd times). They didn't have to play every day, 8 hours a day, for 9 weeks as some people are making it sound. They played around once a week- in the comfort of their own home- in their underwear if they chose to.
It's a league. There should be a good reason to participate in league play. There is less of a reason if someone can conceivably (and did!) show up to one open bracket tournament, win that, then win the whole 50 grand. It makes the 9 weeks of games less meaningful and significant, and thus detracts from the value of the entire event.
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On July 11 2011 11:17 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:52 Dantat wrote:On July 11 2011 09:55 Whitewing wrote:
Fix the open bracket issue, a lot of people don't like that a player can win the open bracket then get a fair shot at first place when all the league participants put in way more time and effort (even though it doesn't make it actually easier).
Maybe put the top 2 people in from each division and then the last spot, instead of going to an open bracket player goes to the person with the best record from the league play that didn't make the top 2 of his own division. I like the open bracket idea. It gives relatively unknown or unpopular players a chance to show their skill. If Puma would have applied via applications, I don't think he would have had even been considered to be put in the regular pool. And come on, it wasn't that bad for the regular players (except for the Koreans who had to wake up at absurd times). They didn't have to play every day, 8 hours a day, for 9 weeks as some people are making it sound. They played around once a week- in the comfort of their own home- in their underwear if they chose to. It's a league. There should be a good reason to participate in league play. There is less of a reason if someone can conceivably (and did!) show up to one open bracket tournament, win that, then win the whole 50 grand. It makes the 9 weeks of games less meaningful and significant, and thus detracts from the value of the entire event.
But your chances at making the finals are much greater by playing in the 9 week season rather than the open tournament. You are able to drop games in the regular season, but if you do in the open tournament you are done. Darkforce and HasuObs both went 5-4 in the regular season, but still made the finals. Puma went like 8-0 in the open bracket and faced multiple Korean pro's on the way.
The good reason to participate in league play is that you have a better chance at making the finals.
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Ok, so here are my 2 cents if anyone cares:
Delays/schedule
First of all i want to say i watched almost every game this weekend. Even if i had to stay awake until 7 or 8 o clock in the morning. But as a BW fan in europe im very used to wake up/stay awake to watch SC. The delays were a bit annoying but in the end it was acceptable. The only thing that should be handled better is the information. Get someone on the stream/stage and tell the people what is happening and im totally OK with delays.
The long pauses inbetween the games werent the greatest thing too, but i was sitting on my couch with chips alcohol and weed. When i had to wait for the next game i just watched a episode of futurama or something so waiting was no big problem.
Technical issues
This is my biggest criticism. I understand such an event is hard to organise and there is a lot of technical stuff that can go wrong. But if you organise such a big event that so many people are going to watch you absolutely need to test your setup in advance. And with that i mean long enough to be able to fix your technical issues before the event starts.
The sound issues could have been solved before but they werent i dont know why. This is really unacceptable for the people who have paid to watch this (i didnt so im not really pissed but i understand if those who paied are).
Commentators
I cant understand those people who critisize the commentators with sentences as: "OMG i wanted Tastosis to cast this match and now INC/gretorp ruin this game for me"
This is fucking ridiculous and you people are just idiots im sorry i have to say this in such a insulting way but it has to be said.
Gretorp and especially Incontrol are great casters. Definitely among the best english casters that exist. They casted the whole season and did a great job, they were a reason why i prefered to watch NASL instead of other daily tournaments. Yes i like Tastosis more too but it would be very bad for esports if they would cast every tournament.
If you dont like the casters then turn the volume down and listen to kpop or porn sounds or whatever you like most while watching SC. If you need Tastosis to enjoy the games you are not a true SC fan period.
Many people here were watching BW with Korean casters, although we didnt understand one single word they were saying, for years and no one had problems with it, think about that.
Format
I like the format please dont cange it, atleast not to double elimination. Maybe im alone with this opinion but i dont like DE at all and i dont understand why its so wide spread in the gaming community while no other sport (i watch) uses it. Yes its annoying if your favourite player gets knocked out in the first round (i like ret too), but thats the way it is. Hes a professional and will get over it so should you.
Games
The games were amazing. I have nothing more to say about it.
Stage decor
There were people saying that the stage looked "amateurish". And they were right. NASL finals was definitely not at the level of Korean Air OSL. But in the end id didnt need to be. So many people talk about "professionalism" here and how its so important for esports but thats noly a secondary problem as i see it. I would watch this finals if the players if they were played in incontrols apartment (pun intended) as long as the stream and sound quality is good its professional enough for me. Im not saying it wouldnt be nice if there was a better presentation/ decor but thats not the reason why i watch such events.
killing esports
This is really getting an meme here on TL. as soon as a little detail is not working some people are crying: "this is killing esports". WTF? as long as we, the audience, are loving the game and are willing to watch it esports wont be killed. Its not the fancy stage lights or the pop stars singing before the event that make esports big. but the great games and people who are willing to watch them.
If a event fails it kills itself and makes room for others. As long as the audience wants to watch esports there will be esports. The fact that so many people care about esports and dont want it to die is proof that nothing is going to kill it.
conclusion
NASL was a great tournament with some problems. But im willing to forgive everything that went wrong as long as the organizers try to do it better the next time. And i dont even need big apology letters or free HD stream offers or such. Just learn from your mistakes and fix the problems you had, especially the sound issues (really this is the only thing that really bothered me)
Id like to add that im a bit drunk and that my post probably isnt of very high quality. But i spent an hour or so to write it now and couldnt wait to get sober to say some things. so grammar nazis please dont kill me. 
Thank you NASL and everyone involved you made my day / weekend i had so much fun, see you next season.
Puma fighting you are a beast!!!! I love TL, greetz im off
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On July 11 2011 10:59 eqez wrote:
Next time lower the prize pool and hire a production team that can do a nice stage setup with nice booths and good video and audio production.
I really dont care how much the prize pool is i want a tournament that is fun to watch. Like HSC
I am pretty sure that the people actually competing in this don't agree with you.
Some of the top players probably wouldn't fly over to compete if the prize pool wasn't as high as it is.
This seems like common sense to me...
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On July 11 2011 11:50 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:59 eqez wrote:
Next time lower the prize pool and hire a production team that can do a nice stage setup with nice booths and good video and audio production.
I really dont care how much the prize pool is i want a tournament that is fun to watch. Like HSC I am pretty sure that the people actually competing in this don't agree with you. Some of the top players probably wouldn't fly over to compete if the prize pool wasn't as high as it is. This seems like common sense to me...
Where do u think NASL get their income from? The players or the viewers?
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On July 11 2011 11:10 RowdierBob wrote:
I've really liked NASL. Considering the limited resources they've had at their disposal, it's been a great effort to get it to where it is.
One thing I'd suggest is using an industrial designer (if possible) for the offline event. It looks a bit drab and dull on the stream when you see the stage and the boothes. There's definitely scope to glam it up a bit!
"Limited resources"
Looking at the prizepool they werent that limited.
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On July 11 2011 11:52 eqez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 11:50 Perseverance wrote:On July 11 2011 10:59 eqez wrote:
Next time lower the prize pool and hire a production team that can do a nice stage setup with nice booths and good video and audio production.
I really dont care how much the prize pool is i want a tournament that is fun to watch. Like HSC I am pretty sure that the people actually competing in this don't agree with you. Some of the top players probably wouldn't fly over to compete if the prize pool wasn't as high as it is. This seems like common sense to me... Where do u think NASL get their income from? The players or the viewers?
The viewers watch BECAUSE of the players that are in it.
I guarantee if you and me were in it in place of MC and select a lot less people would be watching 
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Still havent watched the sunday matches because the VOD system is really bad.
Which is kinda ironic since for that $25 you are basically paying for the VOD because the live stream is free to watch :-/
So I guess that's the last $25 NASL get from me unless they greatly improved the VOD delivery
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On July 11 2011 11:09 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:On July 11 2011 09:52 ZergMaestro wrote:
No fluff.
Use the casters you fly in from korea more. inc, and gre are not as fun to watch as taste, and artosis.
The sound was horrible as fuck. How is it possible to have that shitty of quality control with the sound? fire anyone who had anything to do with the sound.
Less horrible awkward fucking singing. Get better interviewers. I mean I like to look at pretty girls and all, but im watching this to nerd out, and watch some fucking video games. Let artosis do the interviews.
QUALITY CONTROL. QUALITY CONTROL. This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either. Its just your ego loving to criticise and point out mistakes. Its not easy to produce an event like this. Its not hard either. Its insanely fucking hard. You speak like an incensed child raging at an adult for not giving him exactly what he wants and how he wants it, unable to understand that an adult is human as well. QFT I will gladly be paying for a season 2 HD pass. Much better bang for the buck than GSL.
Plz explain how.
and no. player and matches don't count since that is something no event can do anything about.
How is NASL better then GSL?
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On July 11 2011 11:58 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 11:09 Doodsmack wrote:On July 11 2011 10:34 UFO wrote:On July 11 2011 09:52 ZergMaestro wrote:
No fluff.
Use the casters you fly in from korea more. inc, and gre are not as fun to watch as taste, and artosis.
The sound was horrible as fuck. How is it possible to have that shitty of quality control with the sound? fire anyone who had anything to do with the sound.
Less horrible awkward fucking singing. Get better interviewers. I mean I like to look at pretty girls and all, but im watching this to nerd out, and watch some fucking video games. Let artosis do the interviews.
QUALITY CONTROL. QUALITY CONTROL. This is an example of a callous and one-dimensional evaluation. Yes, there were issues, it wasn`t perfect, maybe far from it but it wasn`t terrible either. Its just your ego loving to criticise and point out mistakes. Its not easy to produce an event like this. Its not hard either. Its insanely fucking hard. You speak like an incensed child raging at an adult for not giving him exactly what he wants and how he wants it, unable to understand that an adult is human as well. QFT I will gladly be paying for a season 2 HD pass. Much better bang for the buck than GSL. Plz explain how. and no. player and matches don't count since that is something no event can do anything about. How is NASL better then GSL?
NASL is based in America, the fans here, you hear the Korean's say all the time, is a lot more fun and expressive then korean fans.
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EPT
