EPTProfessionalism in electronic sports - Page 16
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mki
Poland882 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:28 mki wrote: You guys are giving a ton of examples where BM happens in other sports. However the point is - all those sports look down upon that - we're the only one that encourages it. So don't say that BM is good because they do it in traditional sports. Why do you keep makings shit up now? :X Nobody "encourages" it. We just don't care in most cases because it is super trivial. Do you think if Destiny played in a MLG and called insulted someones sexuality or race, people would not be upset? There is a MASSIVE difference between saying fuck off to someone and calling someone a faggot. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:28 mki wrote: You guys are giving a ton of examples where BM happens in other sports. However the point is - all those sports look down upon that - we're the only one that encourages it. So don't say that BM is good because they do it in traditional sports. Just a bit of advice, stop using the term BM! In the article you state that we should frown on bm, then go on to give an awful example when it comes to defining what bm is. I think everyone here agrees that there is a certain line that shouldn't be crossed, what your trying to do is determine where that line is. The only problem is you make no mention of said line, instead you just state "BM" as if everyones idea of bm is the same. | ||
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farvacola
United States18830 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:28 mki wrote: You guys are giving a ton of examples where BM happens in other sports. However the point is - all those sports look down upon that - we're the only one that encourages it. So don't say that BM is good because they do it in traditional sports. Either way, it is definitely worth mentioning that e-sports is so incredibly different from athletic competition, so much so that these comparisons are useless no matter which side one takes. The standards of e-sport professionalism should reflect their user base, complete with trolls and wk's. To adhere to some arbitrary standard decided upon by organizations like the NBA or NFL seems the utmost of conformist stupidity. All in all, the character of e-sports is yet to be fully fleshed out, but this seems like a conservative morality play that most gamers would scoff at. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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Hokay
United States738 Posts
Idra does more good and growth for the scene the way he is and you want to fine him for cursing?! That's absurd considering how this scene is still growing, and how much (lack of) money the majority of pro players make. The sponsors knows the demographics and how our gaming culture is, so why change the program into something it is not like some boring square golf tournament? It'll just do more harm if all of sudden our scene, our casters and our players started became "total professionals". Tastosis wouldn't be the same, some memorable MLG events wouldn't have happened, these dumb but sometimes entertaining ceremonies, good manner players looking even more good manner compared to the bad manner players, the drama and stories that keeps viewers attention etc. etc. This game and the sponsors are targetting preteens to their late 20's so I don't think the sponsors are too worried about "BM". | ||
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mki
Poland882 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:31 SafeAsCheese wrote: Why do you keep makings shit up now? :X Nobody "encourages" it. We just don't care in most cases because it is super trivial. Do you think if Destiny played in a MLG and called insulted someones sexuality or race, people would not be upset? There is a MASSIVE difference between saying fuck off to someone and calling someone a faggot. Are you kidding me? I can find at least 10 quotes where people ENCOURAGE it where they say - it's what makes e-sports fun...and "I like seeing it". Read the thread man. | ||
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ishboh
United States954 Posts
fining people for BM is just ridiculous. if a basketball player says "fuck off" to another player, he gets a technical foul, not a fine. sorry but manners were never a prerequisite for any sport. | ||
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seoul_kiM
United States545 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:18 CheckSix Gaming wrote: What I meant by both can co-exist is that it can still be interesting, without people being BM to each other. I think I thoroughly explained that in my comment right before saying that I am not saying we all need to be robots. You're telling me that the BM makes it interesting and I am telling you that I don't need the players I watch to call another player an asshole in order for it to be interesting..the games can stand on their own merit. They don't need "drama" to spice things up. Once again, I also feel like if you truly need that drama to be interested you are not here for the games, you're here to see the chaos. EDIT: You also said you were from CS as well, right? Well, how much "BM" was there in high level CS? Not a lot. Rivalries were developed, there was still a bit of drama..and some amazing matches were played. You do not have to have BM in order to have great matches and interesting content. Between teams and players there's plenty of BM in CS. Even recently during DreamHack, Na'Vi Ceh9 exploded after beating SK-Gaming in just 1 round. So I don't think you know what you're talking about in term of counter-strike. Wall-e from SK has been recorded talking trash about the entire EG line-up previously. And Spawn has been video-taped talking shit about fnatic.f0rest back in the day. There are plenty of other examples even among American teams, that you clearly have no idea about. Your logic that BM leads to chaos is confusing to me...The players might not need drama to spice things up but people watching like it...heck even other pro's like a little bit of drama from BM spicing up big spotlight matches. You're right, you don't need to call another player an asshole but MC's "BMish" ceremonies and little witty "BM" comments like "Are you angry?" are great for the spectators in creating a sense of excitement and anticipation. What you're saying is on the lines of, if you need the drama behind the medical intentions of Dr. House, you aren't here for the medicine, you're here for the chaos. How does that make sense? Esports has a whole entire side to it called "SPECTATING" and for esports spectating is a huge part of it and with drama comes more spectators. Do you really think 10,000 people would be writing "OOOOOOOOOOO MC VS IDRA" if that type of BM didn't happen. It created an increased popularity for the match-up and it's good for the game. I'm not saying BM is essential for the game but I don't think it's a bad thing. You're saying get rid of it. I'm saying it's already here and it isn't bad at all so we shouldn't worry about it. What chaos are you talking about? I don't see EG dropping Idra, MC being banned from events, battle.net geting lulzsec'ed, or the rapture ensuing.... | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
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oBlade
United States5626 Posts
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Helio-s
United States4 Posts
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Kui
United Kingdom88 Posts
Let me use Destiny as an example. He streams a lot and makes his living off of it. (A good one, too.) He isn't famed for his outstanding play.. + Show Spoiler + although he did 2:1 bomber :o but people watch him play for hours on end. Why? Because of his personality. IdrA would have thousands less fans if he didn't show his "BM"; which isn't actually BM, in my opinion, as I would classify BM as actively trying to anger your opponent as opposed to IdrA who is just very honest about his opinions of other players. In SoTG ep 40 or 41 IdrA talks about why he flipped off the MLG interviewer after his loss. There's nothing wrong with that, he was provoked, he's a human being. But, I digress. The point is, would one watch MLG/DH/GSL/Whatever if it was just plain replays being streamed? No, the tournament would lose at least 95% of its viewers. The personalities of commentators make the event what it is. Whether it's pure entertainment, such as TB or analytical mastery with IdrA or a combination of the two such as Tastosis, the game is based on the personalities and the amazing things that happen when like minded individuals meet over an interest. In that interest, yes, it's similiar to sports. But this will be a very different scene for a long time, perhaps infinitely. Perhaps when we see SC10 broadcasted on main TV channels and progaming teams advertise on everyday products, maybe it will be toned down. But for now, stop trying to change a wonderful thing, emotion. P.S. No offence to any, i'm just trying to state my opinion and I don't have time to change this to cater to those that seek to be or are easily offended. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On July 08 2011 04:39 mki wrote: I have heard that I'm not a good writer but it has always been constructive criticism and helped me improve (like a few posts already here). Your post is just: "I've been around for a while back in the glory days everyone look at me". If you are going to critique especially in a way you did, at least give something constructive to not look like a complete asshole. It's one community we are part of - I wrote the article to stimulate discussion and that was accomplished. Your post didn't stimulate anything but "MYM sucks". Quality post. Just consider yourself lucky that I cared enough to call you out. Your article is just a notch higher than "this article is crap i won't even bother post a comment". | ||
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mki
Poland882 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:47 Helio-s wrote: Listen OP, I'm gonna be frank with you: You're out of touch, and you're contradicting yourself. BM is not hurting e-sports. We are not going to get a ton of new people watching streams and tournaments by having everyone act like a robot. Sure, I agree that there should definitely be some limits, but the idea that BM in and of itself should be outlawed is absolutely absurd. Take the great UCLA vs USC(two colleges with football teams for anyone not sport savvy) rivalry for example. This rivalry is built on bragging rights and beating the other team into submission. I can guarantee you the fans in the crowds aren't shouting "Effectively outplay the other team in a sportsman-like fashion team!". I don't think that would go over well as a chant. I'd also like to take offense to the fact that in tons of your responses in this thread you don't actually address what people are saying, you just tell them they're wrong. Look at the top of this page for example "so don't say that bm is good because they do it in traditional sports". This SCREAMS elitism. You're trying to dictate the responses. Why even make a thread if you aren't going to allow for any discussion? Even in your OP you are trying to dictate what MUST happen as though you have some intrinsic knowledge of what will give E-sports billions of viewers. I hate to break it to you, but I have literally never heard of your website before this page, and I think that indicates that you may not be the person to say what NEEDS to happen in e-sports. I don't mean that in a "who the f--- are you?" way, I mean it in the context that you guys aren't MLG or GSL. Now for the contradictions. A page or two ago you referred to a person as a "complete asshole" for responding to this thread in a way you disliked. Really? Aren't you the guy against BM? It's very clear that there's some dissonance between what you're saying and the way you conduct yourself. I'm in no way an example for the entire community to follow. Don't compare me to someone who has the viewership of IdrA. Also - the entire point was anti-BM in a public setting from professional players. Don't even use the argument, lead by example. This article was a suggestion (and yes a strong push towards my opinion), but a suggestion nonetheless. I called him an asshole not because I didn't like his opinion. I called him an asshole because his post brought nothing to the thread yet he still found it necessary to place it there. It only brought negativity without contributing anything else. | ||
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Mallard86
186 Posts
On July 08 2011 02:45 Red Rain wrote: Bad manner on the field of play is not met with a fine; it is met with a penalty. Only extreme examples of BM are met with actual fines. In the SC2 esports I have watched, there has not been an example of BM worthy of a fine. Wrong, football fines players all the time for on-field antics, Basketball does it too. Baseball is the one that doesn't really go that path. Incorrect. Play celebrations and trash talking occur in every single game in football and basketball. The vast vast majority receive neither a penalty nor a fine. Excessive cases receive a penalty and only a tiny portion receive any kind of fine. I would be surprised if fines given for such antics outnumbered the fines given for illegal hits and uniform violations. | ||
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Helio-s
United States4 Posts
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mki
Poland882 Posts
On July 08 2011 05:57 Helio-s wrote: You again tell me I can't do something. Especially infuriating due to the fact that you're saying I can't hold you responsible for breaking the views you're promoting in the very same thread. Just because his post was negative doesn't mean it didn't bring anything, and you still called him an asshole. I'm afraid I've just added MYM to my blocksite list due to your actions and this article. I don't want to turn this into a flamewar so may I just suggest you consider trying to open your mind. I'm not sure we're talking about the same post. | ||
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manawah
123 Posts
Road goes both ways... if the event coordinators can't provide the services agreed to in the contracts they also should be held liable. | ||
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mr.reee
121 Posts
On July 08 2011 03:06 zz_ wrote: The Huk-Idra ss is out of context and I don't exactly agree with what you say, I think the drama that comes from the bm far outweighs the "public appeal" that we lose. After all, I watch esports to be entertained, not because I want it to become the new Soccer. Soccer - the most BM sport by a mile. | ||
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