On July 08 2011 03:56 MattBarry wrote: Why can't the TL user base look at threads like these and say "Oh man, I sure am tired of arguing this topic to death like we have for the past few months." Like any rational person would. You're not changing anyone's mind and it's annoying to be such trollbait.
Truthfully everytime i read a thread about Bad manner i just sort of roll my eyes.
On July 08 2011 03:30 AlBundy wrote: A lot of people in this thread are saying "there's shit talk in a lot of sports so it's fine". What the fuck? I for one don't want esports to become like some of these real sports, you know, like football (soccer) where half the enthusiasts and supporters are retarded and/or alcohoolic douchebags. I want esports to stay classy and respectable. I don't want esports to become lowbrow entertainment like all these popular sports.
And I suppose half the enthusiasts and supporters of esports are sociophobic virgins and/or unemployed basement dwellers.
Just let things be what they are and drop the pretension.
I think looking at team competion in general is the wrong approach when looking at conduct (though players are signed to teams and some leagues are team formatted, it is a competition 1 vs 1) and look more towards sports for instance like boxing or tennis, John Mcenroe for instance. His behavior is outlandish depending on calls and helped more people to become aware of tennis. Granted also there are incredibly different crowds associated with such sports it adds drama and excitement and actually bring viewers in. Boxing, after a knockout there are emotions exibited by the boxer that also alows the crowd to connect with someone on a personal. These types of interactions bridge the gap between spectators and competitors.
The showing up on time part is great, but the part about the chatting during games, and the bm are not. In sports, one of the biggest parts is each players personality. If you think that making the players all be the same person just with a different playstyle, the gaming industry will never grow, because people won't be able to connect with any of the players. People need emotion to attach on to a player, whether they like the nice guy or the bad boy or the showman it doesn't matter, but each player needs to have their own personality or no one will show up to watch that player play the game.
If you think they don't talk shit in major leagues like the NFL you are insane. Idra saying fuck off once in a match and you get all upset? Think of how many time it's being yelled at each other in a NFL game. Fining a player for saying the word fuck would only hurt the players and not really benefit us.
On July 08 2011 03:30 AlBundy wrote: A lot of people in this thread are saying "there's shit talk in a lot of sports so it's fine". What the fuck? I for one don't want esports to become like some of these real sports, you know, like football (soccer) where half the enthusiasts and supporters are retarded and/or alcohoolic douchebags. I want esports to stay classy and respectable. I don't want esports to become lowbrow entertainment like all these popular sports. But if it's already too late, then tell me and I'll go away.
I feel that at the end of the day, a lot of people on TL are just here for the drama, the trash talk and the immature behavior and that's it. I guess we're all just human beings after all. Shortsighted and dumb human beings.
Stop sounding like you're superior or any better than any of us. When Idra and MC BM each other and create drama, they are creating a hype that creates a spectator's sensation that gets you pumped to watch the game. I'm surprised that you know the entire football enthusiast community and have found that exactly "half" of them are retarded or alcoholic douche-bags. A sport is a sport to those who are playing it but it's also a spectator's game for those who watch it for entertainment and people like drama. From the days of Ancient Greece, Drama has entertained the minds of Emperors, Kings, citizens, and the homeless. We aren't dumb for loving something that startles our emotional senses, it's what makes us...us.
Yeah, Idra flipping off a fellow competitor is totally similar to ancient greece theatre. Sure. Euripides ain't got nuthin on ma boi Grack.
If you want e-sports to stay "classy and respectable", as you put it, then learn to appreciate unique perspectives that people have, learn to accept diversity and stop imposing your goddamn vision on everyone else, stop disregarding anyone who disagrees with your vision of greatness. Maybe your vision is not perfect, maybe far from it and arguing about your personal vision of e-sports and what it should be, and what is wrong with it - does not support e-sports, I assure you. It supports divisions and conflicts, mostly about trivial and unimportant or about misconceptions and petty desires of the human ego.
What works towards what is good for e-sports are not fucking visionaries with their judgements of what is, and what should be and what shouldn`t be and why who have to convince others to their opinion, as if they would fucking melt if they didn`t try to do this.
What really works towards what is good for e-sports is understanding, coherence and unity within the community - unity based on what naturally unites us - the genuinely shared passion, shared interests, shared enthusiasm.
Aren't players not supposed to chat during the game anyways unless for pp or to pause/fix something/bathroom? And idra only typed after his opponent did
On July 08 2011 04:07 Jakkerr wrote: boohoo sum1 said a bad word in public and I was able to read it fine him!
sigh.. I really don't get why this is a problem, ever.
I think it is probably a US problem (dunno about Canada/South America). I don't think European audiences are as sensitive about these things - I mean, we don't have censorship in our TV shows and nobody cares or sees a reason for it.
Finnish television doesn't beep/edit out bad words. It's the parents' responsibility to not let their kids watch it if they don't want their kids exposed. mki just tell your kids not to watch Starcraft so we can enjoy uncencored content.
The problem with the idea of this article is that every player isn't making a living off SC2 when at these events, and any person can join.(In the instant of MLG of course) Now when you talk about a CONSIDERABLE fine for something like this, it's ridiculous, people wouldn't be able to afford it, and it doesn't actually change the sport in any considerable way. If you decided to impose large fines on high school and university team players who swore, they couldn't do shit to pay, that's the same demographic (in general) you'd be hitting with such a fine/fee.
If you have to you could ban from events, give forfeits, etc. But you can't fucking fine people who most the time don't have the income to pay it.
One of the main reasons players get fined ( really sporting organizations) for bad language and sometimes mannerisms is because of the FCC and its governing over the broadcasting of the sport. For example, on the PGA tour, a a player swears and get heard on camera, they incur a ~$5,000 fine (these are so frequent and generally unimportant that these are unannounced) and is used to cover the penalty the PGA needs to pay the broadcaster who in which needs to pay the FCC for the violation of their terms and conditions. If Starcraft is not hindered by such, I see no practical way why a Starcraft would need to be fined, I mean, who would the money go to first of all? No one is governing the game's behavior (like the FCC and broadcasted sporting events).
On July 08 2011 03:56 MattBarry wrote: Why can't the TL user base look at threads like these and say "Oh man, I sure am tired of arguing this topic to death like we have for the past few months." Like any rational person would. You're not changing anyone's mind and it's annoying to be such trollbait.
Truthfully everytime i read a thread about Bad manner i just sort of roll my eyes.
This one was no exception
Its like someone opened a Starbucks right beside a Starbucks.
I disagree. But then again, i don't give a shit about eSports...i just want to have great tournaments that are entertaining. I believe that it's doable even with some BM.
I am not a psychic; I cannot see the future. However, I do see a future I no longer like to be apart of with eSports if we continue down this path of overall disrespect and bad manner. To me, the leagues shouldn't HAVE to create rules and enforce them with an iron fist. Being well mannered to each other should be something that should have been taught to you by your parents or people in your community and you should have enough respect for yourself and our community to enforce yourself. Don't like losing? Get over it. No one like's losing. It's a fact of life.
To me, as a manager, a sponsor, and as a person with a little common fucking sense..I will not support anyone that is not able to execute a little self-discipline and professionalism to others in his/her own community.
( That is also not a poke at Idra; or anyone in specific for that matter. I don't necessarily agree with Idra, and the way he acts..but he is getting better so I can at least appreciate that. Hopefully, he will continue to do so. )
I logged in to personally tell you your article is stupid and to fuck off. I'm tired of people complaining about BM in esports. Let's just suck all the fun out of shit.
On July 08 2011 04:22 CheckSix Gaming wrote: I am not a psychic; I cannot see the future. However, I do see a future I no longer like to be apart of with eSports if we continue down this path of overall disrespect and bad manner. To me, the leagues shouldn't HAVE to create rules and enforce them with an iron fist. Being well mannered to each other should be something that should have been taught to you by your parents or people in your community and you should have enough respect for yourself and our community to enforce yourself. Don't like losing? Get over it. No one like's losing. It's a fact of life.
To me, as a manager, a sponsor, and as a person with a little common fucking sense..I will not support anyone that is not able to execute a little self-discipline and professionalism to others in his/her own community.
( That is also not a poke at Idra; or anyone in specific for that matter. I don't necessarily agree with Idra, and the way he acts..but he is getting better so I can at least appreciate that. Hopefully, he will continue to do so. )
We shouldn't have to have laws that prohibit rape, robbery, and murder but....we do need it.
If you think that players BM'ing has a whole lot to do with how they were brought up, I think you got it all wrong. It's about having a competitive nature and feeling an instinctive burst of emotion when you win or lose that takes over a person's rationality. Not many players BM on a regular basis to everyone they meet which would indicate a psychological connection between the general familial education of a player.
Many players BM before and during games...not really after they lose. Idra didn't flip MC off after he lost...he did it during one of MCs funny "BMish" ceremonies and it created hype and drama that came from high levels emotions from both players.
This isn't a parochial private school...it's an online competitive computer game...
The other extreme is the Kespa control of BW. A player can only say a select few things, mainly gg to end a game. They have to type p a specific number of times to request a pause in game and are disqualified if the pause is found to be for insufficient reason (i.e. something other than a hardware problem or other serious issue). This sounds pretty good at first, but then you get things like players being disqualified for trivial things like typing the incorrect number of p's. While this sounds like a ridiculous extreme, you have to be very careful in drawing lines regarding this sort of thing and enforcing them. Allowing special cases makes for extra responsibility on the refs and possibility of abuse.
In addition, Kespa was the governing body for all of pro BW. In SC2 MLG, GSL, NASL, etc. would likely all have their own rules making for an even more confusing scene and more possible mistakes. The huge variety of map versions is an example of how this can become troublesome.
The idea behind outlawing BM in games can be argued based on freedom of speech or professionalism, but really the implementation is extremely complicated. Even if you could show that censorship of this sort of behavior was a must for the growth of the community, how could it possibly be done?
Every once in a while someone remarks on a difference between esports and pro physical sports, and then attributes that to be a cause in a lack of popularity of esports. Just like people who say that esports should use real names rather than nicknames. People here have no sense of proportion on what's important and what isn't.
EPT
fine him!
