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On July 02 2011 08:42 ronpaul012 wrote:
The answer people is both. He only was able to go to korea because he was already very good. But there's no doubt that his training in Korea has made him a much better player. Huk has amazing work ethic, combine that with the korean training and you have one of the worlds best players.
Correction. He had a lot of potential. I really hope Joshy didn't overlook this fact. There's a reason why IdrA was able to find success there after living in Korea for 2 years. Hell, even Jinro's practice paid off.
If you have the balls, work ethic, skill and luck. You can get some decent results, but the underlying principle behind all of this is the Korean culture and their practice regime.
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On July 02 2011 08:43 Jayrod wrote:
God, not this conversation again... Thank you for bringing this up again it always leads to the most fascinating discussions and seldom leads to petty arguments.
Its called submersion. If I go to Mexico and just live there in a house with people speaking spanish all day, im going to learn the language eventually, but my heritage is not ever going to become Mexican. Maybe my kids could call themselves Mexican, but you can't change your heritage within one generation.
How has this thread gotten to 10 pages when this was only the 8th post down?
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mindlessly practicing 10+ hours a day does NOT get you results. Life isn't that simple. It requires direction, innovation and experimentation, something that non-Korean infrastructures currently do NOT provide. A part of the amazing success of the korean-training method is not simply "oh, let's practice 10 hours a day, yay" it's because there are brilliant coaches who can help direct each player in the right direction, because of the intense atmosphere under which they work AND because the skill level of every single player that they practice with can wipe the floor off with a typical non-Korean-trained player.
you CAN'T just practice 10 hours a day and assume you will be world class. 1 hour with oGsMC is worth more than 100 hours of solo-practicing.
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On July 02 2011 08:47 PartyBiscuit wrote:
HuK is HuK - he represents TL.
All HuK symbolizes, as the dreamhack commentators put (not Day9/Apollo) after his victory is that ANYBODY who trains hard enough in the right environment, can become a champion.
There is nothing left to discuss.
Stop underrating talent. Not ANYBODY can be a champion, look at ret and haypro. Those two trained in korea for so long and they're not even ahead of the other top europeans at all.
Not everyone can be a champion no matter how much they practice. We're all born differently, and we all have a different threshold.
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United States7483 Posts
If you work really hard for ~8-10 hours a day, almost every day, in an environment with other excellent players who are helping you improve while you help them improve, you'll be an amazing player, whether you are Korean or not.
Koreans have that environment, HuK has that environment. Most foreigners don't. Maybe EG will start kicking ass now that they're getting a similar environment up (not sure how much time they are putting in though). Hopefully TLO's house will show some massive improvement to those guys too.
It's the environment and work ethic that has them ahead, not their nationality.
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On July 14 2011 10:11 Spacekyod wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 08:43 Jayrod wrote:
God, not this conversation again... Thank you for bringing this up again it always leads to the most fascinating discussions and seldom leads to petty arguments.
Its called submersion. If I go to Mexico and just live there in a house with people speaking spanish all day, im going to learn the language eventually, but my heritage is not ever going to become Mexican. Maybe my kids could call themselves Mexican, but you can't change your heritage within one generation. How has this thread gotten to 10 pages when this was only the 8th post down?
Because in sc2 we don't give a shit about what language they speak or the color of their skin? We care about their training method.
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Excerpt
"HuK's victory at Dreamhack was an indicator that the western world was keeping up.
God, I can't believe big companies like IGN are spilling these blatant loads of crap. If anything, Huk's victory, as well as the last few months, has proven that the foreign scene is starting to fall behind.
Huk is a foreigner representing the Korean SC2 scene. Period.
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Huk is the most dedicated non-Korean. That's why he is so strong. He trained like KR when he was in America and his wins are his own.
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it's hard to say. I don't know whether genetics, environment is the dominating factor to why Koreans dominate starcraft.
Environmental factors like what is in the food, water, and air could be overwhelmingly more secure in South Korea at the moment. Since Western culture has been somewhat compromised in food safety and health. Perhaps Koreans are more cognizant of health traps and are benefiting from the results of a healthier life style.
If Koreans are supposedly better than Europeans at the moment in Starcraft. and it's due to just genetics. Why aren't chinese, Mongolians, Japanese people competing and becoming successful. Since many Japanese and Chinese people are similar to Koreans genetics wise. Obviousy, environment is at play.
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Huk "won" it, although i contribute his win against moon to moon's own flawed decisions, not huk's ability to beat him. Those last 2 games were terrible decisions by Moon after he destroyed huk in straight up games.
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Huk wins attributed to Huk.
Why do we need to start a back-and-forth argument about this?
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On July 14 2011 11:06 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +Excerpt
"HuK's victory at Dreamhack was an indicator that the western world was keeping up. God, I can't believe big companies like IGN are spilling these blatant loads of crap. If anything, Huk's victory, as well as the last few months, has proven that the foreign scene is starting to fall behind. Huk is a foreigner representing the Korean SC2 scene. Period.
Agreed. Seems like a reach for viewership when the statement is not true.
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Huk is a Canadian who has made a significant improvement thanks to his training in South Korea.
Does anyone find anything wrong with what I just said? I don't understand why this topic comes up every few days and gets hundreds of people so passionately arguing each time, and lord it's annoying.
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We can be proud of HuKs success as one of us (A westerner) but we cannot hold HuK up as an example of the Western SC2 scene keeping up with the Korean scene because he is part of the Korean scene.
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On July 14 2011 11:34 chatuka wrote:
it's hard to say. I don't know whether genetics, environment is the dominating factor to why Koreans dominate starcraft.
Environmental factors like what is in the food, water, and air could be overwhelmingly more secure in South Korea at the moment. Since Western culture has been somewhat compromised in food safety and health. Perhaps Koreans are more cognizant of health traps and are benefiting from the results of a healthier life style.
If Koreans are supposedly better than Europeans at the moment in Starcraft. and it's due to just genetics. Why aren't chinese, Mongolians, Japanese people competing and becoming successful. Since many Japanese and Chinese people are similar to Koreans genetics wise. Obviousy, environment is at play.
this is probably one of the dumber posts i've seen in a while
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HuK wins are his own efforts, but it received a jump start when he decided to sit next to MC in team house.
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On July 14 2011 10:37 svi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 08:47 PartyBiscuit wrote:
HuK is HuK - he represents TL.
All HuK symbolizes, as the dreamhack commentators put (not Day9/Apollo) after his victory is that ANYBODY who trains hard enough in the right environment, can become a champion.
There is nothing left to discuss. Stop underrating talent. Not ANYBODY can be a champion, look at ret and haypro. Those two trained in korea for so long and they're not even ahead of the other top europeans at all. Not everyone can be a champion no matter how much they practice. We're all born differently, and we all have a different threshold.
Eh, those two left Korea a long time ago. Who knows where Huk would be now if he left with them then.
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anecdotal evidence also says that Ret and Haypro did not train as hard while in the house as HuK did and does.
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HuKs win is attributed to Korea. If he was still laddering in Canada he wouldn't be as successful as he is now. HuK is Korean not Canadian anymore because he trains like a Korean and trains with Koreans on a daily basis that's why he is so good at Starcraft because he is Korean. He represents the Koreans because thats where he trains and his skill set comes from his Korean training nothing more nothing less.
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On July 14 2011 12:04 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 10:37 svi wrote:On July 02 2011 08:47 PartyBiscuit wrote:
HuK is HuK - he represents TL.
All HuK symbolizes, as the dreamhack commentators put (not Day9/Apollo) after his victory is that ANYBODY who trains hard enough in the right environment, can become a champion.
There is nothing left to discuss. Stop underrating talent. Not ANYBODY can be a champion, look at ret and haypro. Those two trained in korea for so long and they're not even ahead of the other top europeans at all. Not everyone can be a champion no matter how much they practice. We're all born differently, and we all have a different threshold. Eh, those two left Korea a long time ago. Who knows where Huk would be now if he left with them then.
well, when haypro left korea and moved back to europe, he wasn't exactly lighting the european scene on fire. when he attended american tournaments while still residing in korea, he did pretty damn poorly. he was nothing special at all.
if you think anyone can go to korea and become a champion after mass gaming, then you're just completely naive.
this is the real world and things like intelligence will come into play when you're competing with others who play just as much as you.
if you have 100 guys who play 12 hours a day, then not all of them are gonna be champions. you guys make it sound as if any foreigner who goes to korea and nerds for 12 hours a day will be a champion like huk, which is completely ridiculous.
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EPT
