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The Korean Online Invasion - what do you prefer? - Page 18

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 19 20 22 Next All
sefio
Profile Joined June 2011
103 Posts
June 26 2011 11:42 GMT
#341
I just wanna see good players play, not just some random NA GM players.
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 11:50:28
June 26 2011 11:48 GMT
#342
i really thinking that koreans europeans dominating US tournaments wont help starcraft grow but ok

i mean stuff like mlg is awesome now imagine that mlg only had online qualifers.. then at event there would be like 0 americans lol why would americans want to watch it ?

i mean i wouldnt mind watching a portuguese guy getting rotflstomped in a cup i dont care but i would watch it cause people like to see people that they cant identify with..

i think that if there are regional qualifiers then make them regional.. like those zenex guys if there was a korean regional they would go nowhere.. and you guys are saying they are the best ?...

what would you guys prefer watching a 20 koreans final or a finals with the best of each region battling it out ?

i mean why did people loved the team war of World vs Koreans ? just saying...
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
June 26 2011 11:55 GMT
#343
Big tournaments like NASL / TSL Qualifiers - let them participate.

Small tournaments (weekly zotac, go4sc, ...) I dont want to see them participating. I see those tournaments as a way to foster new & upcoming foreign players, some way to motivate them. It's especially important since most western tournaments are invite only so it's another way to demonstrate talent / skill.
A good example would be Stephano who participated in a lot of small tournaments and got invited to the Homestory Cup 3 + Show Spoiler [HSC3] +
and is doing well with wins over White-Ra, Huk, Jinro

I doubt he would've been invited or even motivated to put so much time in SC2 if he would be dominated by Korean B-teamers.
Kaolla
Profile Joined January 2003
China2999 Posts
June 26 2011 11:56 GMT
#344
On June 26 2011 20:48 GizmoPT wrote:
i really thinking that koreans europeans dominating US tournaments wont help starcraft grow but ok

i mean stuff like mlg is awesome now imagine that mlg only had online qualifers.. then at event there would be like 0 americans lol why would americans want to watch it ?

i mean i wouldnt mind watching a portuguese guy getting rotflstomped in a cup i dont care but i would watch it cause people like to see people that they cant identify with..

i think that if there are regional qualifiers then make them regional.. like those zenex guys if there was a korean regional they would go nowhere.. and you guys are saying they are the best ?...

what would you guys prefer watching a 20 koreans final or a finals with the best of each region battling it out ?

i mean why did people loved the team war of World vs Koreans ? just saying...


on the other hand would it be fun watching games that you know are not top lvl?
why do you think premier league and spanish liga are so popular? it's because they are the best leagues, not because ppl in china or wherever can identify with them...
The Chinese league isnt popular at all here, cause ppl know the teams suck...
Would be the same with sc, if you know all players in foreign cups suck, sure you will have some viewers, but most fans would focus on the top leagues probably...
This also forces the western players to try and compete with the koreans which keeps their lvl higher as well I guess...

didnt really read the rest of the topic, but i guess this has all been said before
its me
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
June 26 2011 11:58 GMT
#345
I want them be able to participate all over, so we can get more games with awesome players and harder competition means greater games and that players have to work harder to provide rest of us with quality series.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
June 26 2011 12:02 GMT
#346
I can't imagine it's helpful for the foreign sc2 scene when Koreans roflstomp every tournament all the time. I guess only the very top players would be on a sponsored team then and it would be even harder to get new top players.

It's just so much harder for foreigners to train in a similar environment as the Koreans. The teams here basically can't have a team house cause all the players live in different countries and many study/go to school/work and it's much harder to fully commit to sc2. And we will likely never have a ladder with Korean quality either.

Obviously solutions have to be found to improve the foreign scene but I don't think Koreans taking all the prize money and fame (-> sponsors) is one of them.

Everyone who watches Homestory Cup should also realize how much more interesting it is to see the foreigners interact and commentate games and so on. Sadly there IS a big language barrier (and also a cultural barrier) which will inevitably make Koreans more boring for us outside of the game itself.
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Carnagath
Profile Joined July 2010
230 Posts
June 26 2011 12:07 GMT
#347
On June 26 2011 08:45 unSpeake wrote:
Koreans are now going to win every single tournament that isn't a local LAN tourney, and even some of those (homestory) are going to be taken over.
Good bye to foreigners winning anything!


People who practice a lot and correctly will always do well (like Naniwa). I don't see why artificially limiting the players to lazy whiners who practice 3 hours a day and have the nerve to still call themselves progamers (like Idra) is beneficial to anyone. It's a competitive game, players like that should be filtered out of the pool for the viewers's pleasure, which is why E-sports exist. I don't agree with especially accomodating Koreans and treating them favorably like it sometimes seems to happen, but large tournaments should be open for everyone who wants to participate.
"If you can chill, chill". -Tyler
whamm
Profile Joined December 2009
67 Posts
June 26 2011 12:10 GMT
#348
It's an eventuality that will keep on happening time and time again. Koreans will be our source of sc2 entertainment and all foreign pros will become expert commentators, live with it and allow koreans access.
Sableyeah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands2119 Posts
June 26 2011 12:11 GMT
#349
My intake in this is that it's really easy money for them and generally big big promotion for themselves and their team.

This is exactly why Rain joined MSI instead of a korean team (methinkz). Anyhow it's good for spectators for awesome gaimz but pretty sad for good "foreigners" because they just can't compete on their level yet (yes HuK won Dreamhack beating alot of koreans but we can all say that HuK is a korean-gamer). I bet most koreans that join these tournaments just want some extra money and general good "practice" for GSL
Might aswell play tournaments to practice than to spam ladder yeah? :D
BoA | Sunny | HyunA | ChoA | Hyemi // Preoccupied with a single leaf, you won't see the tree. Preoccupied with a single tree and you will miss the entire f0rest - Takuan Soho
provrorsbarn
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 12:43:11
June 26 2011 12:26 GMT
#350
I wanna see the best players win ofc...I dont mind koreans etc.
But i really dont like online tournaments that accept any player from any region.
They usually produce alot of bad games cuz of latency....and its hard for me to watch....
So online tourneys should have a rule where participants should live in the same region IMO to be able to play....

the worst games Ive seen in tourneys are NASL, TSL etc
TSL was broadcasted with replays so any form of lag is hard to spot (but you can see it in micro battles etc.. if they did it live....the event would be awful cuz of the latency issues would be more evident in the korean games)
NASL though is prerecorded live and almost every korean game was a big lag fest and an utter dissapointment.

and the best games are the "offline" ones, such as MLG, Dreamhack, GSL etc....

Im just a zerg
Cosmos
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium1077 Posts
June 26 2011 12:48 GMT
#351
On June 26 2011 07:10 MassIncestor wrote:
awesome, the best players should participate

i don't care about nationality, but skill


Exactly, e-sport is one of the only sport were viewers don't support players because of their nationality !
http://www.twitch.tv/becosmos
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
June 26 2011 12:56 GMT
#352
On June 26 2011 21:48 Cosmos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 07:10 MassIncestor wrote:
awesome, the best players should participate

i don't care about nationality, but skill


Exactly, e-sport is one of the only sport were viewers don't support players because of their nationality !


That's so not true. Just because the majority of the TL forum doesn't do that for SC2 doesn't mean nobody does it in all esports.

I support Germans/EU players more, so at least that's not true for me
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 26 2011 12:58 GMT
#353
On June 26 2011 21:26 provrorsbarn wrote:
I wanna see the best players win ofc...I dont mind koreans etc.
But i really dont like online tournaments that accept any player from any region.
They usually produce alot of bad games cuz of latency....and its hard for me to watch....
So online tourneys should have a rule where participants should live in the same region IMO to be able to play....

the worst games Ive seen in tourneys are NASL, TSL etc
TSL was broadcasted with replays so any form of lag is hard to spot (but you can see it in micro battles etc.. if they did it live....the event would be awful cuz of the latency issues would be more evident in the korean games)
NASL though is prerecorded live and almost every korean game was a big lag fest and an utter dissapointment.

and the best games are the "offline" ones, such as MLG, Dreamhack, GSL etc....



The NASL Season had a lot of terrible games for sure.

But the Open Tournament qualifier had some awesome games.

I think it's a lot more to do with very little being on the line in the regular season so players aren't as bothered.
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 26 2011 13:00 GMT
#354
On June 26 2011 21:07 Carnagath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 08:45 unSpeake wrote:
Koreans are now going to win every single tournament that isn't a local LAN tourney, and even some of those (homestory) are going to be taken over.
Good bye to foreigners winning anything!


People who practice a lot and correctly will always do well (like Naniwa). I don't see why artificially limiting the players to lazy whiners who practice 3 hours a day and have the nerve to still call themselves progamers (like Idra) is beneficial to anyone. It's a competitive game, players like that should be filtered out of the pool for the viewers's pleasure, which is why E-sports exist. I don't agree with especially accomodating Koreans and treating them favorably like it sometimes seems to happen, but large tournaments should be open for everyone who wants to participate.


Naniwa hasn't really proven yet he can compete with the Koreans. There's a big difference between playing in a tournament where there's one Korean and one where you're beating nothing but Koreans.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 13:54:44
June 26 2011 13:41 GMT
#355
Honestly does anybody expect tournament organizers to start banning Koreans?

Yeah, I thought so.
The growth of E-Sports lies in the large number of tournaments that are going on; look to your right and you'll see one almost every minute.
Expecting tournaments to start banning Koreans for being "too good" is absurd.
They have so much to gain, from the publicity to the quality of games, by having Koreans compete.
There are no advantages to banning Koreans; it just ushers in accusations of racism/xenophobia.

Despite all the arguments thrown around, tournaments aren't going to throw away the advantage of having so many Korean players compete. There's likely to be little to no response to all these pleas of protectionism.

The simple solution (the only solution) is basically: Practice more. Play better. Pick up Korean playstyles or learn how to counter them. Cheer on and encourage your favorite foreigners.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Modulen
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden38 Posts
June 26 2011 13:49 GMT
#356
if more korean players join the foreign tournaments it will make it easier for us to study/copy the korean strategys which will only help us improve our play.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 13:51:56
June 26 2011 13:51 GMT
#357
I feel like having to play against Koreans will push Foreigners to step up their game and actually get good. That's good for everyone, because then there will be more good Foreigners.

I think part of why Korea utterly dominated Broodwar was because of how little Foreigners played with Koreans.



You have to play against the best to become the best.
monx
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1400 Posts
June 26 2011 13:56 GMT
#358
On June 26 2011 22:51 Zzoram wrote:
I feel like having to play against Koreans will push Foreigners to step up their game and actually get good. That's good for everyone, because then there will be more good Foreigners.

I think part of why Korea utterly dominated Broodwar was because of how little Foreigners played with Koreans.



You have to play against the best to become the best.


i agree. And any players that whine against koreans in foreigners tournaments should stop playing SC2. Simple as that. If you don't want to compete against the best players, why are you still playing?
@ggmonx
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
June 26 2011 14:15 GMT
#359
I think the problem isn't so much that Koreans are playing in other tournaments, but rather that there are few amateur options for new players to come into the scene. If the same players are always the ones winning tournaments, how is a new player supposed to compete with someone who has years of BW experience? Will the pro scene develop into the same people playing each other in every tournament?

It is a big sacrifice to give up social aspects and a job/money in hopes of winning a tournament and making a name to gain sponsorship.. Why sponsor a nobody who has doesn't have tournament titles? How is a nobody supposed to have the finances to play SC like it's a full time job?

Look at basketball in the US for example. New talent is trained in high school, college can be paid for with sponsorships, and the truly great players go on to make millions in the NBA. You don't see high school players competing against NBA players. Of course people want to watch the best, but only supporting the best also means that the sport will become stagnant and eventually die out.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
June 26 2011 14:24 GMT
#360
On June 26 2011 20:55 Zocat wrote:
Big tournaments like NASL / TSL Qualifiers - let them participate.

Small tournaments (weekly zotac, go4sc, ...) I dont want to see them participating. I see those tournaments as a way to foster new & upcoming foreign players, some way to motivate them. It's especially important since most western tournaments are invite only so it's another way to demonstrate talent / skill.
A good example would be Stephano who participated in a lot of small tournaments and got invited to the Homestory Cup 3 + Show Spoiler [HSC3] +
and is doing well with wins over White-Ra, Huk, Jinro

I doubt he would've been invited or even motivated to put so much time in SC2 if he would be dominated by Korean B-teamers.


I seriously hope that the tournament organizers aren't ignorant enough to look over somebody who is amonst the top players of his region just because he traditionally finishes behind Koreans.
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