EPTI'm just making this topic as to inquire about what makes a silver level player better than a bronze level player, a gold league player better than a silver league player, and so on and so forth (in your opinion). As a resident bronzie, I've been facing silver level players and winning about 50% of my matches against them. It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues?
The Differences Between Each Respective League?
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
I'm just making this topic as to inquire about what makes a silver level player better than a bronze level player, a gold league player better than a silver league player, and so on and so forth (in your opinion). As a resident bronzie, I've been facing silver level players and winning about 50% of my matches against them. It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
The higher the league, the better macro, better use of economy (efficiency) and better control of units individually and collectively. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10324 Posts
There are many ways to improve to get yourself from Bronze to Silver for example, so there is no common answer. Basically, it's everything. Strategy, mechanics, micro, macro, and everything else. | ||
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
See, I'm mainly making this thread to see what I need to improve in my game to ascend the ladder. I'm #1 in my division with no bonus pool, and have about 50% win ratio against my silver league counterparts. I can always identify why I win, but never why I lose. | ||
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Jhohok
United States71 Posts
Look at the "Pretty Pictures" links of typical macro'ing Bronzie (stumbling) Silver (shakily rising) Gold (gradual rise) Plat (closer) Diamond (OP's line) And awareness And mechanics And micro And having a game plan But mostly macro | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). However, i have not played in bronze-silver for a long long time, and even then, It did not really take me a lot of time to go up (about 20 games from bronze to silver and another 20 from silver to gold), so I don't really have a big amount of games at this level. I could be somewhat wrong. | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? There are some differences, but both make tonnes of mistakes. It also depends what server you're playing on, as the quality of the lower leagues varies wildly from server to server. | ||
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Ghost.573
United States126 Posts
Plat and Diamond are where you refine all of this as just macro with no gameplan will rarely win you a game and obviously Masters is very well refined mechanically (generally) and have good strategic sense of what to do in different situations. Grandmasters is the best of the best or at least supposed to be. They all know their mechanics and have much knowledge about the race they play and how to defeat the other races as well. Some also study certain players as well to better understand how to defeat them. | ||
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:19 ForeverSleep wrote: not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). That's strange though, because with your logic I should be classified as a silver player. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? pretty much ya. basically bronze is like a giant cheese fest, ie if you know how to deal with them and you have a solid follow up strat u will get to silver pretty quick. basically like Destiny's experiment proved that solid mechanics can take you to at least Plat in NA ie if you have a solid execution of standard BO and general game knowledge(what unit to counter what unit etc especially if you play the more reactionary race zerg). | ||
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:22 Purpleh433 wrote: That's strange though, because with your logic I should be classified as a silver player. well yeah, if you try to have an idea of where you are going in a game, something you are seeking in a matchup, if you can react to what you see on the map, then by all means, you could very well be deserve to be in silver right now. If you want, you could post a replay or something. | ||
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BordZ
Australia118 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:19 ForeverSleep wrote: not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). However, i have not played in bronze-silver for a long long time, and even then, It did not really take me a lot of time to go up (about 20 games from bronze to silver and another 20 from silver to gold), so I don't really have a big amount of games at this level. I could be somewhat wrong. This is the problem I have with the entire team liquid board. They dont seem to understand as the skill ceiling and the reifnement of the game progresses the divisions between each league become larger and that they do actually exist. *taken from the sea server perspective, i understand that NA is easier. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
he is a master cheese, while i am a diamond macro player. thats how i see it. when he all ins me i cant defend (and it pisses me off lol), if we play a macro game i win. just think about how you play and what league your in and you will know what the league means for you. you cant just compare the leagues themselfs. the leagues basicly stands for a sum of different people. last but not least for me the league is an indicator of how you improve at whatever you do. if you have 1000 games and you are still in bronze you obviously do not improve and mostly just play the game for pure fun. if you are in the higher leagues you obsviously care about getting better. thats all there is to the hole topic. people who try to get better and people who dont. | ||
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InStride91
United States14 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:08 Purpleh433 wrote: It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues? Usually if your opponent is turtling, you can find a time to expand, which should give you a substantial lead. Grab watch towers and keep an eye on when your opponent is attacking or expanding. One thing I've been doing lately that has really helped me improve is to watch streams of high level players laddering. If you are P, then I'd suggest Minigun. I personally like to watch Cruncher's stream, but some people don't like him... | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
I feel it's the Macro more than anything. I have 2 friends, one RL friend, and one from WoW. The RL friend has been playing other RTS games for damn near 10 years(Never Starcraft, though), while the other has been playing Starcraft for a few months now, and is silver. Getting my RL friend to play, he instantly went into macro mode, and without knowing unit counters, hotkeys, or even what tech labs were, he just rolled over my silver buddy due to flat macro. This wasn't a one time thing, either. We had them player over and over. Now, put him against someone with comparable macro and it's one sided against him. But, he's not the only case. Taking the silver level player again, comparing him to my plat friend, the silver friend knows more about the strategy side of the game. He knows the counters, how to react, and so forth. Meanwhile my plat friend just plays how he wants to, but has decent macro. For some reason I don't think what I was trying to say came out right...I'm kinda tired. But anyway, Macro is what separates the leagues. Bronze->Silver isn't that big of a jump in skill, and neither is Silver->Gold, or Gold->Plat. But comparing a Bronze to a Gold you can see the macro difference more than anything. | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:42 leecH wrote: did i every mention my terran buddie who got into master with cheese and 1base allins only? now he is in master league does he have better macro/game understanding than someone in, lets say platin? haha think about that. he is a master cheese, while i am a diamond macro player. thats how i see it. when he all ins me i cant defend (and it pisses me off lol), if we play a macro game i win. just think about how you play and what league your in and you will know what the league means for you. you cant just compare the leagues themselfs. the leagues basicly stands for a sum of different people. last but not least for me the league is an indicator of how you improve at whatever you do. if you have 1000 games and you are still in bronze you obviously do not improve and mostly just play the game for pure fun. if you are in the higher leagues you obsviously care about getting better. thats all there is to the hole topic. people who try to get better and people who dont. I'd look into your play; you might be being greedy in some way. Can you not defend even knowing the cheese is coming? There's cheese at every level and beating it is pretty much the same at every level. Obviously it's different on the ladder one you never know what's coming, so it really pays to be safe. If you can't beat your friend even if you know cheese is coming then there's a problem. Sometimes it pays to be safe if you know your macro and mistake are really strong to catch you back yp. See dongraegu, opening up gas pool instead of 15 hatch against Sc knowing how deadly scs 2 tax is and trusting his ability to catch up later, and doing as safe build to survive. Macro is not greed. | ||
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Pondo
Australia283 Posts
Before I was literally just macroing and making roaches and hydras; then attacking every game. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:48 dave333 wrote: Speed and execution. I've been coaching my bronze friend up. He knows what he needs to do in games but when I coach in used to have tell him stuff as he didn't because he was so slow at doing. I think that's a major factor. Simply doin what you need to do is enough to be decent at the game. Pretty much this, I don´t know about others but I have friends in Silver and bronze and most of them know about Build Orders and all that stuff. Hell by seeing their replays its not that the low leagues don´t know any strategies they just don´t have the experience and speed to pull them off. So answering the question, the difference is mostly execution. Even cheese gets a lot more refines(and it still exists in higher leagues ) | ||
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