EPTI'm just making this topic as to inquire about what makes a silver level player better than a bronze level player, a gold league player better than a silver league player, and so on and so forth (in your opinion). As a resident bronzie, I've been facing silver level players and winning about 50% of my matches against them. It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues?
The Differences Between Each Respective League?
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
I'm just making this topic as to inquire about what makes a silver level player better than a bronze level player, a gold league player better than a silver league player, and so on and so forth (in your opinion). As a resident bronzie, I've been facing silver level players and winning about 50% of my matches against them. It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
The higher the league, the better macro, better use of economy (efficiency) and better control of units individually and collectively. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10324 Posts
There are many ways to improve to get yourself from Bronze to Silver for example, so there is no common answer. Basically, it's everything. Strategy, mechanics, micro, macro, and everything else. | ||
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
See, I'm mainly making this thread to see what I need to improve in my game to ascend the ladder. I'm #1 in my division with no bonus pool, and have about 50% win ratio against my silver league counterparts. I can always identify why I win, but never why I lose. | ||
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Jhohok
United States71 Posts
Look at the "Pretty Pictures" links of typical macro'ing Bronzie (stumbling) Silver (shakily rising) Gold (gradual rise) Plat (closer) Diamond (OP's line) And awareness And mechanics And micro And having a game plan But mostly macro | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). However, i have not played in bronze-silver for a long long time, and even then, It did not really take me a lot of time to go up (about 20 games from bronze to silver and another 20 from silver to gold), so I don't really have a big amount of games at this level. I could be somewhat wrong. | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? There are some differences, but both make tonnes of mistakes. It also depends what server you're playing on, as the quality of the lower leagues varies wildly from server to server. | ||
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Ghost.573
United States126 Posts
Plat and Diamond are where you refine all of this as just macro with no gameplan will rarely win you a game and obviously Masters is very well refined mechanically (generally) and have good strategic sense of what to do in different situations. Grandmasters is the best of the best or at least supposed to be. They all know their mechanics and have much knowledge about the race they play and how to defeat the other races as well. Some also study certain players as well to better understand how to defeat them. | ||
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:19 ForeverSleep wrote: not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). That's strange though, because with your logic I should be classified as a silver player. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:14 Purpleh433 wrote: Do you guys think that there are little to no differences between Bronze and Silver players? pretty much ya. basically bronze is like a giant cheese fest, ie if you know how to deal with them and you have a solid follow up strat u will get to silver pretty quick. basically like Destiny's experiment proved that solid mechanics can take you to at least Plat in NA ie if you have a solid execution of standard BO and general game knowledge(what unit to counter what unit etc especially if you play the more reactionary race zerg). | ||
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:22 Purpleh433 wrote: That's strange though, because with your logic I should be classified as a silver player. well yeah, if you try to have an idea of where you are going in a game, something you are seeking in a matchup, if you can react to what you see on the map, then by all means, you could very well be deserve to be in silver right now. If you want, you could post a replay or something. | ||
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BordZ
Australia118 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:19 ForeverSleep wrote: not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). However, i have not played in bronze-silver for a long long time, and even then, It did not really take me a lot of time to go up (about 20 games from bronze to silver and another 20 from silver to gold), so I don't really have a big amount of games at this level. I could be somewhat wrong. This is the problem I have with the entire team liquid board. They dont seem to understand as the skill ceiling and the reifnement of the game progresses the divisions between each league become larger and that they do actually exist. *taken from the sea server perspective, i understand that NA is easier. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
he is a master cheese, while i am a diamond macro player. thats how i see it. when he all ins me i cant defend (and it pisses me off lol), if we play a macro game i win. just think about how you play and what league your in and you will know what the league means for you. you cant just compare the leagues themselfs. the leagues basicly stands for a sum of different people. last but not least for me the league is an indicator of how you improve at whatever you do. if you have 1000 games and you are still in bronze you obviously do not improve and mostly just play the game for pure fun. if you are in the higher leagues you obsviously care about getting better. thats all there is to the hole topic. people who try to get better and people who dont. | ||
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InStride91
United States14 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:08 Purpleh433 wrote: It seems to me my main problem is a macro game, I almost always lose to a silver level player if I go 3 Gate Robo and turtle, or he turtles. Is it better macro that differentiates two leagues? Usually if your opponent is turtling, you can find a time to expand, which should give you a substantial lead. Grab watch towers and keep an eye on when your opponent is attacking or expanding. One thing I've been doing lately that has really helped me improve is to watch streams of high level players laddering. If you are P, then I'd suggest Minigun. I personally like to watch Cruncher's stream, but some people don't like him... | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
I feel it's the Macro more than anything. I have 2 friends, one RL friend, and one from WoW. The RL friend has been playing other RTS games for damn near 10 years(Never Starcraft, though), while the other has been playing Starcraft for a few months now, and is silver. Getting my RL friend to play, he instantly went into macro mode, and without knowing unit counters, hotkeys, or even what tech labs were, he just rolled over my silver buddy due to flat macro. This wasn't a one time thing, either. We had them player over and over. Now, put him against someone with comparable macro and it's one sided against him. But, he's not the only case. Taking the silver level player again, comparing him to my plat friend, the silver friend knows more about the strategy side of the game. He knows the counters, how to react, and so forth. Meanwhile my plat friend just plays how he wants to, but has decent macro. For some reason I don't think what I was trying to say came out right...I'm kinda tired. But anyway, Macro is what separates the leagues. Bronze->Silver isn't that big of a jump in skill, and neither is Silver->Gold, or Gold->Plat. But comparing a Bronze to a Gold you can see the macro difference more than anything. | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:42 leecH wrote: did i every mention my terran buddie who got into master with cheese and 1base allins only? now he is in master league does he have better macro/game understanding than someone in, lets say platin? haha think about that. he is a master cheese, while i am a diamond macro player. thats how i see it. when he all ins me i cant defend (and it pisses me off lol), if we play a macro game i win. just think about how you play and what league your in and you will know what the league means for you. you cant just compare the leagues themselfs. the leagues basicly stands for a sum of different people. last but not least for me the league is an indicator of how you improve at whatever you do. if you have 1000 games and you are still in bronze you obviously do not improve and mostly just play the game for pure fun. if you are in the higher leagues you obsviously care about getting better. thats all there is to the hole topic. people who try to get better and people who dont. I'd look into your play; you might be being greedy in some way. Can you not defend even knowing the cheese is coming? There's cheese at every level and beating it is pretty much the same at every level. Obviously it's different on the ladder one you never know what's coming, so it really pays to be safe. If you can't beat your friend even if you know cheese is coming then there's a problem. Sometimes it pays to be safe if you know your macro and mistake are really strong to catch you back yp. See dongraegu, opening up gas pool instead of 15 hatch against Sc knowing how deadly scs 2 tax is and trusting his ability to catch up later, and doing as safe build to survive. Macro is not greed. | ||
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Pondo
Australia283 Posts
Before I was literally just macroing and making roaches and hydras; then attacking every game. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:48 dave333 wrote: Speed and execution. I've been coaching my bronze friend up. He knows what he needs to do in games but when I coach in used to have tell him stuff as he didn't because he was so slow at doing. I think that's a major factor. Simply doin what you need to do is enough to be decent at the game. Pretty much this, I don´t know about others but I have friends in Silver and bronze and most of them know about Build Orders and all that stuff. Hell by seeing their replays its not that the low leagues don´t know any strategies they just don´t have the experience and speed to pull them off. So answering the question, the difference is mostly execution. Even cheese gets a lot more refines(and it still exists in higher leagues ) | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
Low Bronze - still learning the ropes of the game, very vulnerable to cheese which can keep these players down at the bottom pits of the ladder, unable to move up. Mid - High Bronze - they know the game, the counters, know what needs to be done, but lacking the execution to fully make what's happening in their minds to translate to the screen. They commonly have issues with scouting and making sense of what information is presented. Silver - They know the game reasonably well and can execute a build order fairly accurately, but have some challenges doing both Macro and Micro at the same time. Gold - These players represent the middle of the pack, and there are some genuinely scary players within. Innumerable Masters league players have smurf accounts in this league. The typical Gold player macros and micros with good degree of skill, and can take games from higher leagues, in many cases with finesse. Do not underestimate this league. Plat - One step above Gold, but this league also represents an enormous pack of players who are all fighting to break into diamond league. The constant infighting within creates an equilibrium which forces many within doomed to an stagnant existence within. Diamond and Masters - Elite creme of the crop, before GM. *EDIT When you beaten by a Gold player who seemed nigh unstoppable, I highly recommend that you message this player, say hello, compliment them on the game well played, and you'll be surprised how friendly and helpful many of them are. Chances are good that he/she is a Master in disguise  | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
On June 25 2011 14:05 D_K_night wrote: There is a great deal of disdain snob-type behavior towards all leagues lower than masters, and imo it's unwarranted. Here's my take on it. Low Bronze - still learning the ropes of the game, very vulnerable to cheese which can keep these players down at the bottom pits of the ladder, unable to move up. Mid - High Bronze - they know the game, the counters, know what needs to be done, but lacking the execution to fully make what's happening in their minds to translate to the screen. They commonly have issues with scouting and making sense of what information is presented. Silver - They know the game reasonably well and can execute a build order fairly accurately, but have some challenges doing both Macro and Micro at the same time. Gold - These players represent the middle of the pack, and there are some genuinely scary players within. Innumerable Masters league players have smurf accounts in this league. The typical Gold player macros and micros with good degree of skill, and can take games from higher leagues, in many cases with finesse. Do not underestimate this league. Plat - One step above Gold, but this league also represents an enormous pack of players who are all fighting to break into diamond league. The constant infighting within creates an equilibrium which forces many within doomed to an stagnant existence within. Diamond and Masters - Elite creme of the crop, before GM. *EDIT When you beaten by a Gold player who seemed nigh unstoppable, I highly recommend that you message this player, say hello, compliment them on the game well played, and you'll be surprised how friendly and helpful many of them are. Chances are good that he/she is a Master in disguise Put your post in spoilers since it seemed unecasarry to quoute whole post On June 25 2011 14:05 D_K_night wrote There is a great deal of disdain snob-type behavior towards all leagues lower than masters, and imo it's unwarranted. Here's my take on it. Diamond and Masters - Elite creme of the crop, before GM. Daimond - The dues that know certain builds fairly well or a certain style, but lacks responses follow ups and macro to back that up with Masters - This is such a mixbagged that it's astounding to me. Either they are like the daimond players or they could (depending on server) be as good as any other GM or about to break there. GM - Either they are really good or the top elite, or some people that just abused the ladder during reset and stayed there. Took yours and added on since I thought it was kinda correct ^__^ | ||
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
Bronze is throwing paint at a wall Silver is drawing outside the lines with the wrong crayons gold is using the right colours platinum is drawing in the lines diamond is putty a shitty picture together masters is something recognizable by all, but not always brilliant grandmasters tend to be masterpieces. | ||
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Parodoxx
United States549 Posts
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
Silver- start of consistent builds Gold- starting to know how to react to builds; production isn't consistent, but it is getting better Platinum- Has a set of builds for each mu; production starts to be consistent (especially w/ probes and scvs); Starts to micro; Bottom of diamond- knows the basics for reacting; Micro is basic but effective; Has a build order for most maps/positions; production of workers is consistent, production of army units is fair. Top of diamond/bottom of masters- Has the basics of Micro, Macro and strats on all maps. Middle and upper masters- beginning of higher level strats, also can be seen as just playing more than rest of masters GM- everyone knows the basics and the metagame shifts, "Special tactics" as White-ra would say, deviations based off of your opponents play made because of good decisions. _________________ To get to silver, you really just need to refine your builds and start to consistently produce workers and army units. If you do that, you will win 70% of your builds because they won't be doing the same, you could literally produce nothing but stalkers or roaches or marauders and win most of your games against other bronze and silver players. Edit: Also, I would say to get to the rank above you, you need to be playing better than them, ie playing at the level above the level you are going for. | ||
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
Yes macro is a clear way to get into silver, but if you kept your macro and learned how concaves work, you would probably easily get into silver too. If you got gosu (or even decent) banshee control, you would also probably win every game as well. | ||
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leecH
Germany385 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:56 dave333 wrote: I'd look into your play; you might be being greedy in some way. Can you not defend even knowing the cheese is coming? There's cheese at every level and beating it is pretty much the same at every level. Obviously it's different on the ladder one you never know what's coming, so it really pays to be safe. If you can't beat your friend even if you know cheese is coming then there's a problem. Sometimes it pays to be safe if you know your macro and mistake are really strong to catch you back yp. See dongraegu, opening up gas pool instead of 15 hatch against Sc knowing how deadly scs 2 tax is and trusting his ability to catch up later, and doing as safe build to survive. Macro is not greed. yeah you are right i am greedy and have a lots of flaws in my play. but against him its like i am totally paranoid everytime i play him it´s really wierd xD. sometimes i defend but i am just bad at holding all ins. i also try to play my normal game even knowing he probably gonna all in because i dont really care about beating him because he like played sc1 since release and now just plays sc2 for fun.. balbalbala... but i tried to make a point that you cant put leagues into catagories i dont know how i even made it into diamond myself. i played FPS´s for 8 years i should be below average so really i think the league system is somehow.. stupid? it´s an indicator of how you improve at most. of course if you are like a solid master or grandmaster you are insanly good. everything else for me is just a random big pool of people playing the game with different mindsets.. for example sometimes when i play and drink at the same time, and im really wasted and keep on playing (because its fun ^^) and i start to hit platin players again i still go up in my division because of the bonus pool. if your ranking inside the league does not mean anything how can the league itself mean anything? ive read the TL thread explaining the leagues, still i cant think about how you could break down the leagues beside the mindset the players have. imo there should be like a chess elo without a bonus pool (because bonus pool makes no sense) where your ranking actually means something. then you could try to put certain ranges into categories if that makes sense what i just said. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
For example in my last game vs a gold player I opened 2 port banshee and got completely shut down because he went blind raven, but didn't do anything for 20 minutes as I expanded to his natural and every base on the map and got 200/200 3/3 bcs. Around platinum is the point where most people start to recognize shit like that and go 'hey he's got 5 marines I could just amove over his army right now' | ||
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ZarMulix
United States77 Posts
As a zerg I felt that the biggest difference that took me from silver to gold was learning how to hold all-ins without dying, because they are very common and 1-2 base play was kind of the standard. macro play would happen but only after failed 1-2 base plays. So the biggest thing was to be able to macro hard to survive, and macro hard to recover from abusive harass. In gold macro play was the standard; the main thing helping my opponents survive was playing super turtly and then moving out with the standard "killing blows." This would involve large mech play from terran and general deathball antics from protoss. The thing that got me out of gold was keeping up my macro but also learning to harass back effectively without letting my macro slip. I saw a lot of cool tactics here (elevator dropping, warp prism play, etc). In plat I saw a major decrease in tactful play. In general macro was average and in lower plat I saw a lot of 1-2 base all-ins again and general attempts to end games quickly and desperately. My opinion at that point was that gold > plat and that pretty much held true until higher plat. Then there would be random gems that would completely out play me (good macro, harass, tactics, timings, game sense, etc) but the overall standard rose a tiny bit (more long term planning instead of just throwing stuff at your opponent). Facing lower diamond plays I saw an overall skill decrease again. Once again back to 1-2 base all ins followed by rage quits (lol). Haven't played since I've been busy so I don't know about the rest. My observations were that the higher levels of each league were less reliant on specific strategies doing enough damage to win as opposed to the lower levels. The difference between the similar levels of each league was more multitasking and better timings/game sense. As for the comments about micro, they're laughable at best and is how I KNOW it's complete bullshit. It's not difficult to micro at all, and to be honest you'll see more micro in silver as opposed to plat because they'll actually sacrifice macro to do so. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:19 ForeverSleep wrote: not much, but in silver league they know how to make workers, and usually they try to use and apply actual build orders (by that, I mean they somewhat have an idea of what they want to do. In bronze, its more like, hey lets make marines, hey, i could make a factory and make tanks!!! lets do this. Hey, a mdivac can heal me, lets make 2 of those...you see where I am going like that). However, i have not played in bronze-silver for a long long time, and even then, It did not really take me a lot of time to go up (about 20 games from bronze to silver and another 20 from silver to gold), so I don't really have a big amount of games at this level. I could be somewhat wrong. That was what Bronze was like on release. You can't get out of Bronze nowadays without having some sort of build. People are very capable of hitting specific timings, churning out that 4gate or whatever right when you'd expect it from a Diamond player, of course their micro is horrible, they don't macro while combat is happening, they don't scout and they don't do anything to try and hide it, but Bronze is nothing like it used to be. It's certainly not good, but it's not like "oh, let's build this, that looks good!" either. | ||
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
On June 25 2011 16:55 ZarMulix wrote: As for the comments about micro, they're laughable at best and is how I KNOW it's complete bullshit. It's not difficult to micro at all, and to be honest you'll see more micro in silver as opposed to plat because they'll actually sacrifice macro to do so. i saw a big difference in stutter-stepping/kiting, baneling splitting, muta control, attacking into chokes/concaves, FORCEFIELDS, target firing, spreading armies, etc. but you KNOW it's complete bullshit. ok brah. micro is easy. lol | ||
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Hakaruu
United States22 Posts
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ZarMulix
United States77 Posts
On June 25 2011 17:12 sleigh bells wrote: i saw a big difference in stutter-stepping/kiting, baneling splitting, muta control, attacking into chokes/concaves, FORCEFIELDS, target firing, spreading armies, etc. but you KNOW it's complete bullshit. ok brah. micro is easy. lol Micro IS pretty easy. Sure I don't see mkp splits in silver, but everything else is pretty simple. How else do you explain the mass appeal of MOBA games where all you do is micro? Stutter step - spam s. Kite - click and press h, s, p, a, whatever Target firing - you click (really?) Muta control - I think it's more about knowing how much you can get away with and how opponents will react when you attack various parts of a base (so having more experience to be bolder with them, picking off marines, etc) Spreading armies is pretty simple too, it's just that NO ONE does it for some reason. It pains me to play against people who still use 1 hotkey for their army but who's fault is that? None of this is difficult by any means of the imagination. I'll concede forcefields because I forgot to mention that those DO get significantly better. That part is true. Like I said before I see tons of people doing nice micro tactics, but then they don't macro behind it. That's the biggest problem behind lower leaguers apart from experience and game sense. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
On June 25 2011 18:14 ZarMulix wrote: Micro IS pretty easy. Sure I don't see mkp splits in silver, but everything else is pretty simple. How else do you explain the mass appeal of MOBA games where all you do is micro? Stutter step - spam s. Kite - click and press h, s, p, a, whatever Target firing - you click (really?) Muta control - I think it's more about knowing how much you can get away with and how opponents will react when you attack various parts of a base (so having more experience to be bolder with them, picking off marines, etc) Spreading armies is pretty simple too, it's just that NO ONE does it for some reason. It pains me to play against people who still use 1 hotkey for their army but who's fault is that? None of this is difficult by any means of the imagination. I'll concede forcefields because I forgot to mention that those DO get significantly better. That part is true. Like I said before I see tons of people doing nice micro tactics, but then they don't macro behind it. That's the biggest problem behind lower leaguers apart from experience and game sense. and making scvs and units is "difficult by any means of the imagination" when you put it into button pressing terms? you select a CC and press s. soooo hard have you ever SEEN a silver type player try to stutter step? it's not pretty. it must be easy for you because you are so gosu, but it's obviously hard for them, just like making SCVs is. wtf. and perfect stutter step is hard, just like perfect macro. i saw more micro in plat as opposed to silver. why is your ladder experience the right one? wtf | ||
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ZarMulix
United States77 Posts
On June 25 2011 18:32 sleigh bells wrote: and making scvs and units is "difficult by any means of the imagination" when you put it into button pressing terms? you select a CC and press s. soooo hard have you ever SEEN a silver type player try to stutter step? it's not pretty. it must be easy for you because you are so gosu, but it's obviously hard for them, just like making SCVs is. wtf. and perfect stutter step is hard, just like perfect macro. i saw more micro in plat as opposed to silver. why is your ladder experience the right one? wtf I was responding to this comment: Platinum- Has a set of builds for each mu; production starts to be consistent (especially w/ probes and scvs); Starts to micro; Starts to micro means that everyone below plat is not microing at all, so I guess that means 1aing into every battle. This is simply not true and I never said it was perfect, I said they do it. I must have played different people than you did, and I'm stressing the importance of not generalizing off of falsified ideas about lower leagues. My first hand experience is perfectly relevant, and so is yours. Had I said that ALL lower league players have "perfect" micro, then you would be perfectly justified in calling me out and I would have to reconsider my argument. I just posted what I had faced, which is contrary to what some people have posted before (I suspect out of ignorance) and is therefore a false generalization. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On June 25 2011 16:55 ZarMulix wrote: As for the comments about micro, they're laughable at best and is how I KNOW it's complete bullshit. It's not difficult to micro at all, and to be honest you'll see more micro in silver as opposed to plat because they'll actually sacrifice macro to do so. You sound like someone that doesn't know what/when it is important to micro. You mentioned army splitting with multiple hotkeys in your other post, but that's not how it's done unless you're doing a complete flank sandwich, which is pretty difficult to do on a lot maps. Contrary to what you believe, lots of higher ranked players do split their army right before a battle to get the most surface area and lessen AOE attacks against them. What about tank focus firing with marine retreat and splitting all at the same time vs. muta/ling/bane? What about dropship popping with heavier HP units like tanks or immortals during a battle? What about perfect rine or baneling split when attacking into siege tanks? The list goes on and on. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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ZarMulix
United States77 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:11 Devolved wrote: You sound like someone that doesn't know what/when it is important to micro. You mentioned army splitting with multiple hotkeys in your other post, but that's not how it's done unless you're doing a complete flank sandwich, which is pretty difficult to do on a lot maps. Contrary to what you believe, lots of higher ranked players do split their army right before a battle to get the most surface area and lessen AOE attacks against them. What about tank focus firing with marine retreat and splitting all at the same time vs. muta/ling/bane? What about dropship popping with heavier HP units like tanks or immortals during a battle? What about perfect rine or baneling split when attacking into siege tanks? The list goes on and on. Where do people get the idea that I'm criticizing higher ranked players? I'm talking strictly lower league players and I'm talking about all forms of micro (mostly basic micro as was listed before). All I'm arguing is that micro EXISTS. No it's definitely not the best, it's not done at the right times, it's just attempted. People attempt to micro in the lower leagues, often at the expense of their macro. I don't see how this is debatable. It is first hand experience and does not apply to everyone. My theory is that people find microing easier or funner to do, or don't always have the multitasking/game sense to know when to. This is opinion but is not what you're arguing against. You're arguing that micro isn't easy and I agree I mispoke(posted, w/e). I meant that basic micro is simple, so it's not an issue of whether they're capable of doing it, it's an issue of how often you'll see a lower league player choose it over everything else. | ||
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Clonze
Canada281 Posts
silver- struggles with macro more so than micro gold- not struggling as much as silvers with macro (unit control is probably a bit better than silver) platinum- again.. not struggling as much with macro and starting to learn "builds" diamond- can macro 1-2 bases decently (their macro starts sucking when they have to multitask) micro is not that bad.. These players can learn builds. masters- can macro and micro pretty well and knows a decent amount about builds. Grandmaster is basically top10masters but around ~rank100 and up know a lot more about countering builds and they tend to use more economical builds(FE'ish builds cause they know how to defend most aggression). ~top16 are really really good at macro/micro/multitasking. From my point of view, between each league is a huge leap of skill... I feel that a top10 diamond player will stand no chance against a top10 master player. But at the same time people can get missplaced into higher league from the first 5 matches and they can also climb to a league higher than their actual skill by executing one simple build like 4gate. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On June 25 2011 14:05 D_K_night wrote: There is a great deal of disdain snob-type behavior towards all leagues lower than masters, and imo it's unwarranted. Here's my take on it. Low Bronze - still learning the ropes of the game, very vulnerable to cheese which can keep these players down at the bottom pits of the ladder, unable to move up. Mid - High Bronze - they know the game, the counters, know what needs to be done, but lacking the execution to fully make what's happening in their minds to translate to the screen. They commonly have issues with scouting and making sense of what information is presented. Silver - They know the game reasonably well and can execute a build order fairly accurately, but have some challenges doing both Macro and Micro at the same time. Gold - These players represent the middle of the pack, and there are some genuinely scary players within. Innumerable Masters league players have smurf accounts in this league. The typical Gold player macros and micros with good degree of skill, and can take games from higher leagues, in many cases with finesse. Do not underestimate this league. Plat - One step above Gold, but this league also represents an enormous pack of players who are all fighting to break into diamond league. The constant infighting within creates an equilibrium which forces many within doomed to an stagnant existence within. Diamond and Masters - Elite creme of the crop, before GM. *EDIT When you beaten by a Gold player who seemed nigh unstoppable, I highly recommend that you message this player, say hello, compliment them on the game well played, and you'll be surprised how friendly and helpful many of them are. Chances are good that he/she is a Master in disguise this is a lame troll, master players do not have smurf accounts in gold. bronze - diamond: i don't know what the fuck i'm doing masters: i still don't know what the fuck i'm doing unless i'm all-inning, but i do it faster than diamond players can grandmasters: am i on the NA server? yes-> then you still don't know what the fuck you're doing | ||
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
On June 25 2011 14:05 D_K_night wrote: There is a great deal of disdain snob-type behavior towards all leagues lower than masters, and imo it's unwarranted. Here's my take on it. Low Bronze - still learning the ropes of the game, very vulnerable to cheese which can keep these players down at the bottom pits of the ladder, unable to move up. Mid - High Bronze - they know the game, the counters, know what needs to be done, but lacking the execution to fully make what's happening in their minds to translate to the screen. They commonly have issues with scouting and making sense of what information is presented. Silver - They know the game reasonably well and can execute a build order fairly accurately, but have some challenges doing both Macro and Micro at the same time. Gold - These players represent the middle of the pack, and there are some genuinely scary players within. Innumerable Masters league players have smurf accounts in this league. The typical Gold player macros and micros with good degree of skill, and can take games from higher leagues, in many cases with finesse. Do not underestimate this league. Plat - One step above Gold, but this league also represents an enormous pack of players who are all fighting to break into diamond league. The constant infighting within creates an equilibrium which forces many within doomed to an stagnant existence within. Diamond and Masters - Elite creme of the crop, before GM. *EDIT When you beaten by a Gold player who seemed nigh unstoppable, I highly recommend that you message this player, say hello, compliment them on the game well played, and you'll be surprised how friendly and helpful many of them are. Chances are good that he/she is a Master in disguise I wasn't going to bother posting in this thread for reasons I will explain, but this post just seemed so wrong and is representative of an attitude many seem to have. The thing that separates people in different leagues is who they can win consistently against. That is oversimplified, but the ladder is better explained in other threads devoted to that. This is really all that defines a league (mmr) and the wins can come for any reason (a decent memorized build, macro, miccro, some combination). Thus, there is no one specific skill that determines your league, but you will advance if you can develop and be able to win regularly against players in a higher league while rarely losing to players in your own. The attitude that the above quotation as well as many others seem to be advocating is wrong for a number of reasons. First, the mastery of lower level players is greatly overstated. Good macro is a skill that people at all levels can be seen to occasionally fail at. How many times will you see a caster comment on a pro players money getting over 1k? Obviously their macro is normally better than players of less skill since macro is one of the defining skills of the game, but it is wrong to suggest that gold or plat players have basically gotten down their macro. In addition, it is suggested that there comes a level (in this post it is claimed to be gold league), at which you can take a game off anyone. There is some truth to this sentiment in that you could perhaps master a specific cheese that could possibly catch anyone off guard. However, the reality is that skill gaps increases exponentially as you go up the ladder and into the pro scene. i.e. I could likely win 90%+ of games against people a league or two below me, but that doesn't mean I am likely to take even 1% of games against a mid level gsl player. I'll be honest and say that I haven't played in most of the leagues the quoted poster describes, but people really need to stop overestimating the lower leagues. I'm not saying this to be insulting. There is nothing wrong with being in bronze or silver or w/e. However, if you are looking to improve, assuming mastery of some basic skill that you certainly don't have is not the way. | ||
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ronpaul012
United States769 Posts
For a while I just tried to improve my macro, but I was still losing to timing attacks, or not macroing well enough. The answer i'm finding is micro. I personally have been working on my micro, and I jumped from a lower plat to higher plat. So to answer your question on what makes a better player by league, I guess I'd say it depends on your league | ||
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thepeonwhocould
Australia334 Posts
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lowlypawn
United States241 Posts
On June 25 2011 14:05 D_K_night wrote: grandmasters: am i on the NA server? yes-> then you still don't know what the fuck you're doing So many people on TL have this mentality and I don't get it. People think unless you're a top 10 Grandmaster you're shit... All servers: Bronze:----------------------31.9% (379,845 players) Silver:------------------------22.9% (272,218 players) Gold:-------------------------18.4% (218,902 players) Platinum:--------------------14.8% (175,730 players) Diamond:--------------------2.5% (29,406 players) Grandmaster Master---- 0.2% (1,842 players) source: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all | ||
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Keldrath
United States449 Posts
On June 25 2011 18:32 sleigh bells wrote: and making scvs and units is "difficult by any means of the imagination" when you put it into button pressing terms? you select a CC and press s. soooo hard have you ever SEEN a silver type player try to stutter step? it's not pretty. it must be easy for you because you are so gosu, but it's obviously hard for them, just like making SCVs is. wtf. and perfect stutter step is hard, just like perfect macro. i saw more micro in plat as opposed to silver. why is your ladder experience the right one? wtf not knowing how to do it doesnt make it difficult, it just means you dont know how to do it. stutter step is one of the easiest micro things to learn in the game, all you do is tell your units to move back with right click while u just intermittently press s to time it between shots so when they stop the fire. theres nothing difficult about it your just spamming right click and pressing s | ||
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
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Johnnybb
Denmark486 Posts
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:25 rauk wrote: this is a lame troll, master players do not have smurf accounts in gold. bronze - diamond: i don't know what the fuck i'm doing masters: i still don't know what the fuck i'm doing unless i'm all-inning, but i do it faster than diamond players can grandmasters: am i on the NA server? yes-> then you still don't know what the fuck you're doing This is absolute bullshit. Basically anyone gold and up is generally doing proper build orders and strategy every single game, they just don't execute it flawlessly. There is no one in gold building like 5 gate robo before expo and other non sensical things. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
the answer I have found is: nijaedit: warning, wall of text incoming. all players that dont constantly build workers: constant worker production is important, do it, only exception is zerg players (that build workers until bases are saturated) and when you have 70+ workers, moderation please. bronze(no gameplan) - bronze (has gameplan): because the worse bronzie doesn't have a gameplan he can't focus on what he want's to do and his macro is butchered, to people that doesn't have a gameplan I say: get a gameplan, anything will do, I can guarantee you that if your gameplan is mass queen and you concentrate on going mass queen, you will be better off than if you didn't have a gameplan. ANYTHING will do. bronze(has gameplan) - silver: neither player is anywhere close to decent here, so trying to do cute stuff like tweaking your unit composition oh so slighty or getting a tech you normally don't, is actually detrimental to the quality of the players. example: you have made a gameplan consisting of "I want to go mass stalker" and then later see that your opponent is going for mass zergling, and you switch to half stalker, half zealot, then you will end up banking 100s or 1000s of gas because you are not spending them on stalkers, thus decreasing the efficiency of your macro and weakening your play, you would have been better off going mass stalker all the time. for bronze players I say to concentrate on one of the following, mastering only one of them will almost certainly send you to silver league because of superior macro: 1. supply; NEVER GET SUPPLYBLOCKED EVER. rule of thumb: it is better to have a 30 supply cushion through the whole game than to be supplyblocked for 30 seconds. 2. money; spend it, don't bank it. rule of thumb: if you have 1000 minerals, build 1 hatchery if you are zerg or 2 gateways/barracks if you are protoss or terran, but avoid getting that much money to begin with if you can. if you are a protoss or terran then this cathegory also contains MINIMAL PRODUCTION QUEUEING. 3. expanding; an extremely common problem in bronze and silver league (not as prominent in silver league) is the refusal to go past 1 or 2 bases, YOU WILL QUICKLY FALL BEHIND IF YOU DO NOT EXPAND. rule of thumb for those players choosing this path: do funday monday expo crazy, aka you must expand every 5 ingame minutes and you must not expand at any other time. silver - gold: scouting start to matter. around here players have a gameplan and can execute it fairly well, but nowhere near perfect, if bronze is horrible, silver is plain bad, then gold are scrubs. (me included) for silver leaguers that want to get to gold I say: don't watch your battles. (exception spellcasters, avoid building spellcasters) interestingly enough, any micro you attempt to do will very likely not make your army any more efficient than if you had just A-moved it, remember, A-move will make all your units try to do as much damage as possible, DO NOT WATCH YOUR BATTLES, IT WILL IMPROVE YOUR PLAY. if there is a silver league player reading this thinking to himself "my micro is good, I will disregard this advice because me microing is increasing the effectiveness of my units, this guy is ertainly referring to people that watch their battles and don't do anything while watching" no, I am referring to you, you missed my point entirely, my point is the following: lets say you have an army, lets say in an engagement both armies will die if you A-move, but you will be able to save 10 units if you micro (this is realistic, neither an over or underestimation). the logical choice seem to be to micro the battle, however in reality microing the battle means in 90% of the cases that you stop macroing, go watch some of your replays, are all of your unit-producing buildings being used DURING THE BATTLE? an extremely common occurrence in gold league and down (occurring more the further down you go), is that the players stop macroing during battles, because they want to save those extra 10 units, but because they didn't macro, there was 30 units not being produced, so you end up having lots of money in the bank, but no units after the battle, you have a net loss of 20 units by microing the battle. gold - platinum if gold players are scrubs, platinum players are okay, the difference between gold and platinum is that platinum players do all of the above at the same time (macroing efficiently, expoing when they can, supplyblocks occur but are rare in comparison to silver or gold, the micro that does occur is not wasted apm and they macro while the battle is going on). (the below is largely a progressive line of the skill being more and more refined, I may be wrong however since it is difficlut for me to gauge the skill of players far superior to me) platinum - diamond if platinum players are okay, diamond players are good, the difference is polished skill, diamond players do everything platinum players do but better. tactics and cutesy stuff show their real potential around here and up. diamond - master master players are excellent players, they do everything diamond players do but better. game balance matter around here and can start to be gauged. master - grandmaster grandmaster players are ****ing amazing, they do everything at once almost perfectly and extremely rarely make mistakes. tl.dr lower leagues: macro, NO CUTESY STUFF! higher leagues: overall skill | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:03 thepeonwhocould wrote: Macro is the biggest factor that determines which league you will be in. It's only when you get to high diamond that things other than macro start becoming important (mostly scouting and being able to defend/react to cheese builds). Scouting matters at all levels. A master level Zerg will not be able to hold a gold level 4 gate if he has no idea it's coming until the units hit his creep. | ||
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
Bronze/Silver - mostly casual players, some newbie serious players Gold/Plat - half average serious players, half casual/cheese players Diamond - mostly above average serious players, some cheese/casual players Master - mostly good serious players, few cheese/casual players GM - very serious players only EDIT: if you have previous RTS experience you should get into gold/plat almost straight off the bat if you have previous Starcraft experience you should get into diamond even master if you just do timing attacks almost straight off the bat. if you are a casual player with no RTS experience you can just learn 1 base builds and/or cheese to get into plat very quickly or diamond even. if you are a serious player, if you still haven't got into gold after 200-300 games. I think there is some specific things that are holding you back. You should get someone from diamond/master to help you out or post on TL. | ||
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Keldrath
United States449 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:23 lunchforthesky wrote: Scouting matters at all levels. A master level Zerg will not be able to hold a gold level 4 gate if he has no idea it's coming until the units hit his creep. it doesnt really matter until you get to the level where you actually understand what you are scouting for and what it means and how to react to it, honestly a bronze player could scout a 4 gate coming and completely not prepare for it cause he doesnt know the difference between a 4 gate or a 3 gate and doesnt even realize hes getting 4 gated or even how to appropriatly respond to it. | ||
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Flummie
Netherlands417 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:18 lunchforthesky wrote: People assume the skill of silver/gold players hasn't risen like everyone elses. There is almost no players around now who don't make workers, don't execute a very basic strategy etc.. like there was in early release/beta. Even bronze kids can 4 gate, bunker rush, stim timing etc.. Exactly this! I agree so much with this. I played a silver lately who had 150 apm throughout the entire game, dropped on every corner on the map and was everywhere at once and always had the nice unit compositions and spended his minerals. According to this topic silver players are players who get supplyblocked all the time, dont make workers, have terrible macro + multitasking and 10 apm while wacthing their armies die. Face it; t he skilllevel has been upgraded in these kind of leagues for sure and they aren't the clueless newbies anymore they used to be. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:32 Keldrath wrote: it doesnt really matter until you get to the level where you actually understand what you are scouting for and what it means and how to react to it, honestly a bronze player could scout a 4 gate coming and completely not prepare for it cause he doesnt know the difference between a 4 gate or a 3 gate and doesnt even realize hes getting 4 gated or even how to appropriatly respond to it. I agree, but would like to add that there are gold players that can't scout and there are bronze that can, the level where you as a player "learn to scout" is very varying. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:33 Flummie wrote: Exactly this! I agree so much with this. I played a silver lately who had 150 apm throughout the entire game, dropped on every corner on the map and was everywhere at once and always had the nice unit compositions and spended his minerals. According to this topic silver players are players who get supplyblocked all the time, dont make workers, have terrible macro + multitasking and 10 apm while wacthing their armies die. Face it; t he skilllevel has been upgraded in these kind of leagues for sure and they aren't the clueless newbies anymore they used to be. Probably a smurf or someone that purposely lowered their rank for one reason or another. You should message the guy and ask him. I tanked my ranking on purpose to Silver at one point because I hadn't played in 3 months and wanted to develop timings for builds while getting the rust off my mechanics. The only good players in Silver were the ones that were doing what I did for one reason or another (lots of portrait farmers). As a Diamond-level player, it was not difficult for me to move up in ranks basically at will...not bragging or anything, just stating that Silver is still very noobish (not that there's anything wrong with that..feel like Seinfeld). In BW terms, Silver is D- at best. I say "at best" even though D- is the worst possible rank because most people of that skill would not even try to compete on Iccup or other BW ladders since they were not near as forgiving or populated with casual gamers as Bnet 0.2 is. Bronze = D- Silver = D- Gold = D- Platinum = D Diamond = D+ to C- Masters = C to B- Grandmasters = B to A+ | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
Differences between leagues, i'd say: play style (all in vs macro) makes a huge difference. For ex. all the toss players that 4 gate every game but fall apart after the 15 min mark. macro decision making (never see this, but its prob the most important attribute next to macro) | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On June 25 2011 20:33 Flummie wrote: I played a silver lately who had 150 apm throughout the entire game, dropped on every corner on the map and was everywhere at once and always had the nice unit compositions and spended his minerals. According to this topic silver players are players who get supplyblocked all the time, dont make workers, have terrible macro + multitasking and 10 apm while wacthing their armies die. Face it; t he skilllevel has been upgraded in these kind of leagues for sure and they aren't the clueless newbies anymore they used to be. I got my beta account on the first day of invites, due to having attended Blizzcon 2008. I'd never played RTS games of any kind before that, other than a few hours starting the WC3 campaign with no idea what I'd been doing. I've played consistently since then, and in the intervening time have gone from bottom of the bottom of Copper (my first day, I had an opponent telling me "YOU ARE TRASH, GTFO STARCRAFT AND NEVER COME BACK") to (currently) high Gold. The people around me have gotten better, but today when I play silver players I see glaring weaknesses in their play, and can win against them consistently. I take games off low Plat players but mid to high Plat consistently win against me. So, while people are all improving, there's still a significant difference between the leagues in terms of performance. I'm currently working on becoming a lot more consistent about my upgrades, as that seems like the biggest difference between me and the Platinum players who beat me. However, there's a lot to learn and I try to have no ego about the strengths I've acquired, because I'm so far behind the people who are fantastic at the game. | ||
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PBJ
United States141 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:55 tskarzyn wrote: Those iccup rankings sure seem rather generous. Weren't TLO/Huk/QXC around B? And they are pro? I also can't see any C- player being stuck in diamond? Differences between leagues, i'd say: play style (all in vs macro) makes a huge difference. For ex. all the toss players that 4 gate every game but fall apart after the 15 min mark. macro decision making (never see this, but its prob the most important attribute next to macro) The comparison isn't that a player ranked C- on ICCUP directly translates into Diamond rank in SC2, but rather that the skill level of a Diamond SC2 player compared to the skill level of the rest of the players is similar to the skill level of a C- player compared to the rest of ICCUP. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:55 tskarzyn wrote: Those iccup rankings sure seem rather generous. Weren't TLO/Huk/QXC around B? And they are pro? I also can't see any C- player being stuck in diamond? I'd suggest, obviously without being an expert, that BW and SC2 may have very different requirements for success. In BW, the small unit groups and one building per hotkey limitations raised the mechanical requirements high enough that it's possible that those requirements took on an outsized impact on game results. While I often hear people say that SC2 has a lower skill ceiling because it doesn't have those limitations, it's very possible that reduced mechanical requirements may simply have the effect of allowing people with better strategic skills to get farther. That is, people who are stronger at the skills of inferring what their opponent is doing from limited information, good army positioning and timing, and micro of caster and other micro-intensive units might be freed by the reduced mechanical requirements to get a lot farther. So, that a top player might have been B rated in ICCUP or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that SC2 is just an easier game overall -- it might be that their specific skills are better suited to SC2 as a game, and someone with strong mechanical skills and poorer strategic thinking might not do as well. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:55 tskarzyn wrote: Those iccup rankings sure seem rather generous. Weren't TLO/Huk/QXC around B? And they are pro? I also can't see any C- player being stuck in diamond? Differences between leagues, i'd say: play style (all in vs macro) makes a huge difference. For ex. all the toss players that 4 gate every game but fall apart after the 15 min mark. macro decision making (never see this, but its prob the most important attribute next to macro) Your misunderstanding how the ratings are designed. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:55 tskarzyn wrote: Those iccup rankings sure seem rather generous. Weren't TLO/Huk/QXC around B? And they are pro? I also can't see any C- player being stuck in diamond? Differences between leagues, i'd say: play style (all in vs macro) makes a huge difference. For ex. all the toss players that 4 gate every game but fall apart after the 15 min mark. macro decision making (never see this, but its prob the most important attribute next to macro) TLO was around A- afaik? (IPS.Radio) i never bothered to play higher than B (im #1 in two masters divisions and wins vs grandmasters pretty often) so they seem kind of right | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:42 Devolved wrote: Probably a smurf or someone that purposely lowered their rank for one reason or another. You should message the guy and ask him. I tanked my ranking on purpose to Silver at one point because I hadn't played in 3 months and wanted to develop timings for builds while getting the rust off my mechanics. The only good players in Silver were the ones that were doing what I did for one reason or another (lots of portrait farmers). As a Diamond-level player, it was not difficult for me to move up in ranks basically at will...not bragging or anything, just stating that Silver is still very noobish (not that there's anything wrong with that..feel like Seinfeld). In BW terms, Silver is D- at best. I say "at best" even though D- is the worst possible rank because most people of that skill would not even try to compete on Iccup or other BW ladders since they were not near as forgiving or populated with casual gamers as Bnet 0.2 is. Bronze = D- Silver = D- Gold = D- Platinum = D Diamond = D+ to C- Masters = C to B- Grandmasters = B to A+ I'm platinum and there's no way I could ever have gotten past D- on iCCup; I'm terrible. You can't compare leagues to iCCup ranks. Leagues on battle.net are huge, with 20% chunks of the player population in them. | ||
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Roeder
Denmark735 Posts
On June 25 2011 19:25 rauk wrote: this is a lame troll, master players do not have smurf accounts in gold. bronze - diamond: i don't know what the fuck i'm doing masters: i still don't know what the fuck i'm doing unless i'm all-inning, but i do it faster than diamond players can grandmasters: am i on the NA server? yes-> then you still don't know what the fuck you're doing No, you're a lame troll. Go away. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 25 2011 21:42 Devolved wrote: Probably a smurf or someone that purposely lowered their rank for one reason or another. You should message the guy and ask him. I tanked my ranking on purpose to Silver at one point because I hadn't played in 3 months and wanted to develop timings for builds while getting the rust off my mechanics. The only good players in Silver were the ones that were doing what I did for one reason or another (lots of portrait farmers). As a Diamond-level player, it was not difficult for me to move up in ranks basically at will...not bragging or anything, just stating that Silver is still very noobish (not that there's anything wrong with that..feel like Seinfeld). In BW terms, Silver is D- at best. I say "at best" even though D- is the worst possible rank because most people of that skill would not even try to compete on Iccup or other BW ladders since they were not near as forgiving or populated with casual gamers as Bnet 0.2 is. Bronze = D- Silver = D- Gold = D- Platinum = D Diamond = D+ to C- Masters = C to B- Grandmasters = B to A+ You overestimate GM in SC2 a little bit here. Any D+ on ICCUP can reach Diamond/ Master no problem if they actually want to. GM is C to A for me. For the OP, most people don't know anything about the game untill they reach Diamond and onward. My Korean friend didn't play SC:BW for like 3 years, then I introduce him to SC2. He just sit down and play, got place into gold. He reach diamond now after 3 weeks. He plays Zerg and untill now he still has a very vague build order but still can hold up against Diamond, cos he just can macro and has good mechanic. | ||
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
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Introvert
United States4719 Posts
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
Especially T and P have some very strong all in builds (six rax, proxy play) which may yield a good winrate up to masters if executed well. | ||
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Suichoy
Canada397 Posts
Platinum players tend to have a more solid idea of what they want to do and can execute up to 2-base play but get sloppy after that. Diamond players have the macro to pull off whatever build order they want but lack multi-tasking power. Masters players will start to pull a lot more harass while macroing up as they are fluent enough in their macro to concentrate their apm in other areas. Armies will no longer just sit at each players base but will be used for "sharking", poking constantly for weaknesses. | ||
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