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On June 23 2011 15:22 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 15:19 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world. that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something. It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it... Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game... Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not... the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves. music and movies on the other hand.... Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it. See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft. Your arguments are bordering on nonsensical. It's not up for debate whether piracy is stealing as it falls under an entirely different definition.
His example is extreme, but the underlying action is the same. I said it before and I'll say it again, pirating is taking a product that cost people money to make, with the expectation of profit, and offering no just compensation. It really is the equivalent of stealing.
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There's reviews, demos and forums for that. Just cause you don't enjoy something you bought doesn't mean they stole your money. Try again.
A demo doesnt tell me: You will have the game finished in about 2 hours. Demos dont tell me "The finished game will be bugged like hell" Deomos dont tell me "See the one situation which is extremely annoying? The game will be like this for the whole rest of the game, but the demo ends here"
A review just doesnt tell anything negative, Reviews are advertisment nowadays. I can remember times when certain game magazines really tested games out and literally wrote "This game isnt worth a penny, dont buy it. Give your money to an charity organisation, its better invested there"
Nowadays there is no game "bad" there are all grat games with at the very least 80/100 points, doesnt matter how shitty they are.
And as far as your "forum" argument goes. Just look here.... are the next seasons maps now good or bad? Do we all want GSL maps or not? Is the SC2 story great or not? Is SC2 worth buying if you never ever intend to play MP?
1000 users will give you 1000 answers about this topics. So... no help either.
The gameing industry (and to a part also the film industry) can get away with bad quality and blame it all to piracy.
If you buy a car which says "35 MPG" and you find out its really 8 MPG on average, you can just give it back. If a game says "1000 hours of gameplay" and in reallity its 10 you cant.
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Something to remember in HoN's defense is they have lan FOR TOURNAMENTS. Although all of you internet warriors are out to prove that the internet won't pirate a game with lan. It almost certainly will happen.
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On June 23 2011 15:37 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 15:22 Serpico wrote:On June 23 2011 15:19 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world. that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something. It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it... Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game... Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not... the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves. music and movies on the other hand.... Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it. See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft. Your arguments are bordering on nonsensical. It's not up for debate whether piracy is stealing as it falls under an entirely different definition. His example is extreme, but the underlying action is the same. I said it before and I'll say it again, pirating is taking a product that cost people money to make, with the expectation of profit, and offering no just compensation. It really is the equivalent of stealing.
No, it is not. It never was and never will be. You forget to mention piracy is the COPYING of something that is essentially INFINITE in quantity. It is far from being black and white like you make it seem.
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It confuses me how the reaction to piracy being the reason LAN does not exsist is simply "Just put a security feature on it!" Hello there, what do you think pirates do? The second the Starcraft 2 client gains LAN functionality they will crack whatever security features are put on it and open it up to abuse. There is NO security protection that would stop pirates from opening up LAN completely once it is there.
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On June 23 2011 15:37 Gak2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 15:25 visual77 wrote:On June 23 2011 15:18 Gak2 wrote:On June 23 2011 14:25 visual77 wrote:On June 23 2011 14:23 Gak2 wrote:Hmm I just had a thought. Wouldn't this be more of a problem with the legal system than with current industry ideals? Every game developed is copyright protected so what's stopping the companies from going on a manhunt for those who host LAN servers/blatant piraters and suing their asses for money. If legal fees or some other legal system deterrent is in the way, that's just like saying "Hey, people are stealing my stuff and the system doesn't let me do anything about it." I'm pretty noob when it comes to legal stuff but this is just the way I see it  That would be so retarded. Why would they want to hunt down their fans and treat them like criminals? Have you noticed how hated the RIAA is these days? Is any other industry going to take a lesson from this and handle the transition to the digital age properly? More importantly, as a consumer, why do you even think this is remotely acceptable? Did they really brainwash you that badly? What are you talking about? RIAA? Digital age? Are you saying people are entitled to a video game, which the developers want compensation for, for free? What I'm saying is this: if Blizzard wants people to pay $50 to play their game, then they should have that right and this right should be protected by law. It's the consumers choice to accept the deal or not. If you took their game for free... then you are, in fact, stealing. And as for brainwashing I'm not sure but.. . it seems like they brainwashed me to think people like you lack any intelligence. Please make your arguments more clear next time. Nope. You're a lost cause. See you in 10 years when things have changed. But I'm sure when that happens, you will have no realization of why, what economics changed, or how the industry adapted. Enjoy your carriage, friend. Calling me a lost cause based on two forum posts in which I invite arguments against my own? That's pretty low. Even for a troll.
You admitted that they brainwashed you to ignore any arguments other than your own. How am I trolling in refusing to refute someone who admits to something like that? I just want to talk to someone who doesn't outright admit they can't think for themselves on the concepts of pricing, infinite goods and scarce goods.
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On June 23 2011 15:38 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +There's reviews, demos and forums for that. Just cause you don't enjoy something you bought doesn't mean they stole your money. Try again. A demo doesnt tell me: You will have the game finished in about 2 hours. Demos dont tell me "The finished game will be bugged like hell" Deomos dont tell me "See the one situation which is extremely annoying? The game will be like this for the whole rest of the game, but the demo ends here" A review just doesnt tell anything negative, Reviews are advertisment nowadays. I can remember times when certain game magazines really tested games out and literally wrote "This game isnt worth a penny, dont buy it. Give your money to an charity organisation, its better invested there" Nowadays there is no game "bad" there are all grat games with at the very least 80/100 points, doesnt matter how shitty they are. And as far as your "forum" argument goes. Just look here.... are the next seasons maps now good or bad? Do we all want GSL maps or not? Is the SC2 story great or not? Is SC2 worth buying if you never ever intend to play MP? 1000 users will give you 1000 answers about this topics. So... no help either. The gameing industry (and to a part also the film industry) can get away with bad quality and blame it all to piracy. If you buy a car which says "35 MPG" and you find out its really 8 MPG on average, you can just give it back. If a game says "1000 hours of gameplay" and in reallity its 10 you cant.
You're comparing two totally different things, just like when you said companies steal your money just cause you dislike their product.
A car has a specified MPG and that's tested.
Games can be played through in 5 hours or you could finish all achievements and extra difficulties for a 50+ hour game.
It's a pretty stupid comparison.
I read game reviews and there's still alot of 3/10, you just need to find the right place to read reviews then.
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i completely understand what that guy is saying but I still disagree. There are ways to implement lan IF the developer can promote high end INCENTIVES for someone who actually buys the game. For example make it so that the best features can only be used by signing in with a legit account. People just need to be creative!!!!!!
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it amazes me how many people will argue that pirating is anything but stealing.
"NO I AM NOT STEALING!! I am illegaly taking something that i am supposed to pay for.. for free, without the creators/distributors permission..."
Hmm. ok.
If Stealing is perfectly acceptable in your moral beliefs then you are going to steal, just dont deny it.
If you pirate just say "Ya i steal digital content."
"Its not stealing because they charge too much." .... so cars/houses/boats/computers/everything above $5 should be free? How will anything ever be created/produced again...ever?
People you hurt when you pirate video games = other gamers. Because video game companies lose money, and stop making games. Its really that simple.
You justify stealing because you are cheap/selfish and want something you cant afford...? Sounds like 100% of the thiefs in prison ?
IDK people who argue in favor of pirating are the most hypocritical/selfish people on the net.. would be nice if they would just admit it.
"I steal video games, because its whats best for me and me alone."
(I don't pirate video games, because once I turned 4 years old I learned stealing was bad.)
What blizzard needs to do (and other esports games creating companies) is simply require Any/all tournaments to buy tournament editions of the game. Tournament edition of the game will have lan support.
So that your major tournaments MLG, Dreamhack, GSL will have the lan support.
But then again what is to prevent hackers from taking these copies off of harddrives and such... nothing. So i understand why they refuse to even do this.
Simple case of the community shooting itself in the foot.
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I've always found (in my case) that pirating helps sales. When ever I pirate a game, Portal 2 most recently, I tell all my friends about it. When I tell all my friends about how great it is, they then go out and buy it themselves. If I never pirated it, they would have never bought it in the first place.
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You can't compare HoN and SC2. Blizzard is a much larger company and SC2 is a much different game. Adding LAN support would not only act as a huge fan service but also help with the longevity of the game by fixing a lot of major problems SC2 has when played competitively. If it's all about money, which of course it is, LAN support should be seen as a long term investment. Whatever slight monetary gain they risk, they could just as easily win back in terms of appreciation from the fans. Especially now with PC gaming being what it is. I'm tired of developers using the same excuse over and over again.
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On June 23 2011 15:51 exittlight wrote:
I've always found (in my case) that pirating helps sales. When ever I pirate a game, Portal 2 most recently, I tell all my friends about it. When I tell all my friends about how great it is, they then go out and buy it themselves. If I never pirated it, they would have never bought it in the first place.
So if you steal, and tell your friends to buy it... stealing is ok?
Golden posts like these are the exact reason competitive games are refusing to add lan into their titles.
I steal cars... so i can tell my friends how awsome they are!!
Clearly you are justified in stealing the car then.
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Just add LAN 2 years after it comes out. By then everyone who wants to play would have a copy anyways, so the only ones pirating a copy are one's who wouldn't have ever bought it.
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On June 23 2011 15:41 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 15:37 dudeman001 wrote:On June 23 2011 15:22 Serpico wrote:On June 23 2011 15:19 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world. that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something. It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it... Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game... Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not... the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves. music and movies on the other hand.... Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it. See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft. Your arguments are bordering on nonsensical. It's not up for debate whether piracy is stealing as it falls under an entirely different definition. His example is extreme, but the underlying action is the same. I said it before and I'll say it again, pirating is taking a product that cost people money to make, with the expectation of profit, and offering no just compensation. It really is the equivalent of stealing. No, it is not. It never was and never will be. You forget to mention piracy is the COPYING of something that is essentially INFINITE in quantity. It is far from being black and white like you make it seem.
How else can the developers be compensated and profitable? The only alternatives are running the game as a "service" and/or using ads, which both will not work with single player games.
You do realize that without compensation for developers, the major pushing factor for game development will be removed.
Games aren't like music or books, where even if there is no profit, many good quality songs and books will be created anyways.
Games are most like movies: created for #1 purpose of making money. Without that factor, no one would create the big blockbusters or video game hits that take millions of dollars to make. We'll be left with B movies and small games created as hobbies.
So games can't just be given away with no expectation for compensation, EVEN IF they are infinitely reproducible. Likewise, you claim the current situation of selling copies of the game for money is not acceptable.
So I ask again, how can the developers be compensated?
On June 23 2011 15:43 visual77 wrote:
You admitted that they brainwashed you to ignore any arguments other than your own. How am I trolling in refusing to refute someone who admits to something like that? I just want to talk to someone who doesn't outright admit they can't think for themselves on the concepts of pricing, infinite goods and scarce goods.
It's called sarcasm? It's kind of hard not to belittle someone who blatantly insults your own intelligence first.
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Is it impossible to create a kind of USB- thingy, which unlocks LAN?
Once you put that USB-thingy in, which matches to your verification code, you get the option to play via LAN on your computer, if the v.codes of both your copy of the game as well as the USB match?
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The owner of the internet cafe I played in once bought one (1) copy of frozen throne, installed it in over a hundred computers in his shop, and when dota hit he was literally making millions. Even non-pirates were profiting. So many hours were used playing dota, and all blizzard got was a portion of the purchase price of the first copy. There's something messed up about that. I can understand why they'd want to stop LAN, because without Lan, this would not be possible.
Internet cafes throghout my country did this. Without LAN, they'll die. But, for sure, they were able to derive a lot of value from a minimal investment because of piracy and LAN.
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On June 23 2011 15:59 ToastieNL wrote:
Is it impossible to create a kind of USB- thingy, which unlocks LAN?
Once you put that USB-thingy in, which matches to your verification code, you get the option to play via LAN on your computer, if the v.codes of both your copy of the game as well as the USB match?
Again this can probably be cracked and put into a pirated client in a couple of days.
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Again this can probably be cracked and put into a pirated client in a couple of days.
the same technology they use for their WoW authenticator would solve all this problems. They claim it never has been cracked.
Problem solved.
Still they would never put this up. Why?
Because its so fucking easy to blame pirates for missing content, raises in price and bad gameplay.
Its like the film industry who also blames the failure of their 100000 million dollar film without story, stupid dialoguies, bad actors and mass special effects to the fact that there are pirates.
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On June 23 2011 16:00 maryelizbethwinstead wrote:
The owner of the internet cafe I played in once bought one (1) copy of frozen throne, installed it in over a hundred computers in his shop, and when dota hit he was literally making millions. Even non-pirates were profiting. So many hours were used playing dota, and all blizzard got was a portion of the purchase price of the first copy. There's something messed up about that. I can understand why they'd want to stop LAN, because without Lan, this would not be possible.
Internet cafes throghout my country did this. Without LAN, they'll die. But, for sure, they were able to derive a lot of value from a minimal investment because of piracy and LAN.
So you're suggesting that people should have to pay Blizzard for how much time they play their games?
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On June 23 2011 16:13 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +Again this can probably be cracked and put into a pirated client in a couple of days. the same technology they use for their WoW authenticator would solve all this problems. They claim it never has been cracked. Problem solved. Still they would never put this up. Why? Because its so fucking easy to blame pirates for missing content, raises in price and bad gameplay. Its like the film industry who also blames the failure of their 100000 million dollar film without story, stupid dialoguies, bad actors and mass special effects to the fact that there are pirates.
WoW has private cracked servers? It's not the same thing at all. One is a online game that uses a key+password to autenticate the login to the server, even if you crack it and circumvent the key you still get no real game as it's all online. In SC2 if you circumvent the key (don't need to crack the actual keycodes) you gain access to a full client with LAN enabled.
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EPT
