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HoN Developer: Pirates killed LAN - Page 27

Forum Index > SC2 General
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RodYan
Profile Joined May 2010
United States126 Posts
June 23 2011 06:07 GMT
#521
The HoN developers comments is exactly why I have never or will never complain about a lack of LAN support in SC2.
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
June 23 2011 06:09 GMT
#522
This thread is pretty terrible, I bet 95% of the people commentating on it have no experience with hacking and/or economics. Don't disregard the guy's arguments as bullshit if you can't prove that Blizzard won't lose any money to pirates if they implemented LAN support.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 23 2011 06:09 GMT
#523
On June 23 2011 14:59 MavercK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 14:54 Khaymus wrote:
How is there 26 pages of discussion on this? It is a very simple topic. People are stealing games so companies are trying to counteract that.

You want LAN? Stop stealing from the company. That is never going to happen, so guess what...we don't get LAN anymore.

Get used to it. We did it to ourselves.


stop acting like this entire community is stealing
piracy is a small margin and nothing really changes that margin.
the more a game is bought the more it is pirated.
the less a game is bought the less it is pirated. it's always the same small minority margin.

do super markets place huge restrictions on the way you shop because of shoplifters?
do they say "if you dont want a security guard to follow you around the shop all day maybe you should stop stealing!"

theft will always be present in every market forever.
you want incentives for people to buy that they wont get if they steal.
you DONT want incentives for people to steal other than cost.


Piracy is way more widespread than shoplifting, as there is no reprecussions when downloading games compared to getting caught stealing. People can say what they will but my experience after working several years as a video game store manager is that piracy is a big deal and affects sales.

People even pirate the GSL so i expect that SC2 with LAN would be a huge target.
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
June 23 2011 06:10 GMT
#524
It makes me so furious to read what the HoN developer wrote talking about "goodwill" and how PC users just don't have it. What about the Indie Game Pack that was offered for free and made money from donations only? How much money did that make?

Speaking of goodwill, what about goodwill from the companies? Games have gotten more and more expensive with more games shipped as incomplete, stripped down versions that the user must buy expansion packs or DLCs to fully enjoy. How about companies that actually care about if people are enjoying the game? Which company lets you refund your $60 after you decided that the game is not for you?

Fucking ridiculous for HoN developer to trash the users while somehow attempting to justify the money-sucking techniques that the industry has been using for the past 5 years.
FeiLing
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany428 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-23 06:15:00
June 23 2011 06:11 GMT
#525
I am absolutely sure those people that have nearly every single game that was ever released (pirated) would have bought every single one of them. Similar to those that downloaded about a million CDs and DVDs. They are all millionaires - and only because they saved money by pirating these kind of things... money, that could belong to the companies behind these products, according to some dudes that studied business economics :rolleyes:

I don't really get this... they are worried by some poor dudes stealing the game (that has lan), being unable to play it online against everyone that bought it and on the other hand they don't implement features like a name change for 10$ or some stupid skins for stupid amounts of money, that would have made them more money than the sales of the game could ever have in no time. Look at HoN or even LoL and how many many people "donated" at least half of their salary every month just to have retarded forum avatars, limited edition skins with extra large boobs and other useless stuff.

PS: My favorite game regarding this issue recently is CIV V - an excellent game - but you have to spent like 500 dollar on it to be able to play every civ/expansion. Seriously - I'd never ever consider buying this shit. Stop ripping people off, if you don't want them to steal your software...
Khaymus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States750 Posts
June 23 2011 06:12 GMT
#526

do super markets place huge restrictions on the way you shop because of shoplifters?
do they say "if you dont want a security guard to follow you around the shop all day maybe you should stop stealing!"


Security Cameras
Security Guards
Scanners that detect electronics on the way out of the store
One/two entrances to flow traffic in and out certain areas
Glass cages around many electronics

I am pretty sure they are good at adding strain to the customer to protect their profit...you are just so used to it by now.

And don't pretend like the community doesn't pirate. It is indeed a large chunk of the community...it isn't some small obscure percent that does it.
Let them say we lived in the time of Boxer, Emperor of Terran. Let them say we lived in the time of Nal_rA, Dreamer of Protoss. Let them say we lived in the time of Savior, Master of the Zerg.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 23 2011 06:12 GMT
#527
On June 23 2011 15:02 Charon1979 wrote:
Show nested quote +

You want LAN? Stop stealing from the company.


in fact i have never ever stolen from any company. In fact they have stolen my money for years now by providing no service, no gametime,... for my money.
If i could i would go the store tell them "the game ist totally shit, i want my money back"
THEN they would see how much money the just lose because of bad/cheap game design.


There's reviews, demos and forums for that. Just cause you don't enjoy something you bought doesn't mean they stole your money. Try again.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 23 2011 06:15 GMT
#528
On June 23 2011 15:10 denzelz wrote:
It makes me so furious to read what the HoN developer wrote talking about "goodwill" and how PC users just don't have it. What about the Indie Game Pack that was offered for free and made money from donations only? How much money did that make?

Speaking of goodwill, what about goodwill from the companies? Games have gotten more and more expensive with more games shipped as incomplete, stripped down versions that the user must buy expansion packs or DLCs to fully enjoy. How about companies that actually care about if people are enjoying the game? Which company lets you refund your $60 after you decided that the game is not for you?

Fucking ridiculous for HoN developer to trash the users while somehow attempting to justify the money-sucking techniques that the industry has been using for the past 5 years.



http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time.ars

Games were not cheaper before. Especially when taking inflation in account.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
June 23 2011 06:16 GMT
#529
On June 23 2011 15:12 Khaymus wrote:
Show nested quote +

do super markets place huge restrictions on the way you shop because of shoplifters?
do they say "if you dont want a security guard to follow you around the shop all day maybe you should stop stealing!"


Security Cameras
Security Guards
Scanners that detect electronics on the way out of the store
One/two entrances to flow traffic in and out certain areas
Glass cages around many electronics

I am pretty sure they are good at adding strain to the customer to protect their profit...you are just so used to it by now.

And don't pretend like the community doesn't pirate. It is indeed a large chunk of the community...it isn't some small obscure percent that does it.


none of those interfere with you shopping however other than a short wait time if it's busy.
but whatever.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
June 23 2011 06:18 GMT
#530
On June 23 2011 15:09 IcedBacon wrote:
This thread is pretty terrible, I bet 95% of the people commentating on it have no experience with hacking and/or economics. Don't disregard the guy's arguments as bullshit if you can't prove that Blizzard won't lose any money to pirates if they implemented LAN support.


I think most people would concede that they would lose money, it's more whether that loss is negligible enough to not care about or too much to risk it.
Gak2
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada418 Posts
June 23 2011 06:18 GMT
#531
On June 23 2011 14:25 visual77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 14:23 Gak2 wrote:
Hmm I just had a thought. Wouldn't this be more of a problem with the legal system than with current industry ideals?
Every game developed is copyright protected so what's stopping the companies from going on a manhunt for those who host LAN servers/blatant piraters and suing their asses for money. If legal fees or some other legal system deterrent is in the way, that's just like saying "Hey, people are stealing my stuff and the system doesn't let me do anything about it."
I'm pretty noob when it comes to legal stuff but this is just the way I see it


That would be so retarded. Why would they want to hunt down their fans and treat them like criminals? Have you noticed how hated the RIAA is these days? Is any other industry going to take a lesson from this and handle the transition to the digital age properly?

More importantly, as a consumer, why do you even think this is remotely acceptable? Did they really brainwash you that badly?

What are you talking about? RIAA? Digital age? Are you saying people are entitled to a video game, which the developers want compensation for, for free?
What I'm saying is this: if Blizzard wants people to pay $50 to play their game, then they should have that right and this right should be protected by law. It's the consumers choice to accept the deal or not. If you took their game for free... then you are, in fact, stealing.

And as for brainwashing I'm not sure but... it seems like they brainwashed me to think people like you lack any intelligence. Please make your arguments more clear next time.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
June 23 2011 06:19 GMT
#532
On June 23 2011 15:16 MavercK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 15:12 Khaymus wrote:

do super markets place huge restrictions on the way you shop because of shoplifters?
do they say "if you dont want a security guard to follow you around the shop all day maybe you should stop stealing!"


Security Cameras
Security Guards
Scanners that detect electronics on the way out of the store
One/two entrances to flow traffic in and out certain areas
Glass cages around many electronics

I am pretty sure they are good at adding strain to the customer to protect their profit...you are just so used to it by now.

And don't pretend like the community doesn't pirate. It is indeed a large chunk of the community...it isn't some small obscure percent that does it.


none of those interfere with you shopping however other than a short wait time if it's busy.
but whatever.


Many times stores can't remove alarms from packages and the alarm goes of in another store when you walk in/out. Security guards don't harass regular joes but people who look different, i've read about many cases of discrimination by security guards in stores. Costs are higher due to these security issues so without them we'd have cheaper stuff. Doesn't that interfere?
Skithiryx
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia648 Posts
June 23 2011 06:19 GMT
#533
On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world.



that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something.


It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it...

Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game...

Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not...


the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves.

music and movies on the other hand....



Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it.


See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
June 23 2011 06:22 GMT
#534
On June 23 2011 15:19 Skithiryx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:
On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world.



that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something.


It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it...

Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game...

Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not...


the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves.

music and movies on the other hand....



Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it.


See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft.

Your arguments are bordering on nonsensical. It's not up for debate whether piracy is stealing as it falls under an entirely different definition.
kingcoyote
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States546 Posts
June 23 2011 06:25 GMT
#535
On June 23 2011 15:18 Gak2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 14:25 visual77 wrote:
On June 23 2011 14:23 Gak2 wrote:
Hmm I just had a thought. Wouldn't this be more of a problem with the legal system than with current industry ideals?
Every game developed is copyright protected so what's stopping the companies from going on a manhunt for those who host LAN servers/blatant piraters and suing their asses for money. If legal fees or some other legal system deterrent is in the way, that's just like saying "Hey, people are stealing my stuff and the system doesn't let me do anything about it."
I'm pretty noob when it comes to legal stuff but this is just the way I see it


That would be so retarded. Why would they want to hunt down their fans and treat them like criminals? Have you noticed how hated the RIAA is these days? Is any other industry going to take a lesson from this and handle the transition to the digital age properly?

More importantly, as a consumer, why do you even think this is remotely acceptable? Did they really brainwash you that badly?

What are you talking about? RIAA? Digital age? Are you saying people are entitled to a video game, which the developers want compensation for, for free?
What I'm saying is this: if Blizzard wants people to pay $50 to play their game, then they should have that right and this right should be protected by law. It's the consumers choice to accept the deal or not. If you took their game for free... then you are, in fact, stealing.

And as for brainwashing I'm not sure but... it seems like they brainwashed me to think people like you lack any intelligence. Please make your arguments more clear next time.



Nope. You're a lost cause. See you in 10 years when things have changed. But I'm sure when that happens, you will have no realization of why, what economics changed, or how the industry adapted.

Enjoy your carriage, friend.
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
June 23 2011 06:25 GMT
#536
On June 23 2011 07:12 Coldplum wrote:
I don't see why there can't be some sort of security feature built in that forces you to log onto Bnet before you can access LAN. Or even have a separate LAN security identifier accessory...i.e. like an identifier key-chain that you purchase in conjunction with your account.


There was one with CoD4 as far as i remember ( you had to be logged on steam or something around the lines ) and after following a simple 14 step tutorial you could still get it working on "LAN".
Hence even i was able to do it and i suck at about everything related to a PC, it took me hours of work to set up my linux...

As long as they don't want ppl to play there game online for free the only solution is not to make LAN, i am amazed that it took them 6 years to realize this...

We might see LAN arrive as soon as some "private server" is invented for sc2 ( tho i imagine it would be harder then with wow ) since then the whole " We don't give LAN so that ppl can't play online with a cracked version" isn't true anymore.
A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
kingcoyote
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States546 Posts
June 23 2011 06:26 GMT
#537
On June 23 2011 15:19 Skithiryx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 13:24 dbddbddb wrote:
On June 23 2011 13:09 Skithiryx wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:32 latan wrote:
On June 23 2011 12:27 Ingenol wrote:
It is absolutely not "rational to pirate games." On the contrary it represents the view that one is entitled to the product of another person for less than what that person is willing to exchange it. That is extremely irrational view, although disturbingly prevalent in our increasingly irrational world.



that makes no sense. if two people offer you to trade the same thing, but one asks for less, the rational thing is to choose to trade with the one who asks for less in return. I'd find it very hard to come up with anything MORE rational. so in conclusion, you must be crazy or something.


It makes perfect sense, you walk into a store and pick up an iPad, take it home for 3 weeks then go back and say you want to buy it and you were just trialling it...

Anybody who claims to download games just to "try" them are just using an excuse to make themselves feel better for being thieves, even worse are the people who pirate it and then try to argue that it's a waste of money and rubbish the game...

Hobbies cost money, PC gaming has always been one of the more expensive, people claiming that money is scarce nowadays just needs to siphon out what to buy and what not...


the majority of the games i download are single player only games that i would really never bother paying money for in the first place. developers wouldnt even have made a cent from me so it doesnt really hurt anyone. of course, there are games that i would definitely fork out the money for even if they are only single player (eg skyrim). pirates arent thieves.

music and movies on the other hand....



Pirates are thieves, your taking a product without paying, I don't understand how Singleplayer games makes it any different? Even if you would never buy it your still taking it.


See my previous example, but let's say you walk into a Ferrari dealership smash a window, hotwire and drive off into the sunset, but it's ok right becaues you'd never buy one normally, totally not theft.


Hah. This just makes me laugh. I really wish I could see the kind of shit you said circa 2001 as the music industry was forced into a change it didn't want to make.
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
June 23 2011 06:27 GMT
#538
The answer is quite simple. Have BNET or similar system for non-Blizzard games auto detect the network locations of people connecting. If both players are detected to be within the same network segment, it can create an secure-connection directly between the two for just that game. Once they leave the game it can hand-off their connection back to BNET. Its possible, if the companies wanted to put the development into it. It very much is possible.
i-bonjwa
Eknoid4
Profile Joined October 2010
United States902 Posts
June 23 2011 06:34 GMT
#539
On June 23 2011 07:21 Seronei wrote:
They think Lan will increase piracy, but there is no way to know until they add lan and see an increase in pirated software coupled with a decline in sales. Else they're just playing a guessing game. Until then they're just spouting bullshit.

Also the reddit link has nothing to do with "goodwill" it has everything to do with the Witcher 2 being hyped as shit among PC-gaming crowd and graphics that uses high end pc hardware.

Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 07:20 akaname wrote:
i'm genuinely intrigued about the people saying this article is nonsense...

Why are Blizzard not including LAN? Like, seriously, it's annoyed a lot of fans and wouldn't be that difficult technically? For what reason are they deciding not to?



So they can shut down tournaments that doesn't have a license. To prevent the whole kespa deal that happened with Brood War.

What you're saying is you need to see evidential proof that if you let people play the game without requiring them to connect to a main server they will take advantage of that fact?
If you're mad that someone else is brazenly trumpeting their beliefs with ignorance, perhaps you should be mad that you are doing it too.
Gak2
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada418 Posts
June 23 2011 06:37 GMT
#540
On June 23 2011 15:25 visual77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 15:18 Gak2 wrote:
On June 23 2011 14:25 visual77 wrote:
On June 23 2011 14:23 Gak2 wrote:
Hmm I just had a thought. Wouldn't this be more of a problem with the legal system than with current industry ideals?
Every game developed is copyright protected so what's stopping the companies from going on a manhunt for those who host LAN servers/blatant piraters and suing their asses for money. If legal fees or some other legal system deterrent is in the way, that's just like saying "Hey, people are stealing my stuff and the system doesn't let me do anything about it."
I'm pretty noob when it comes to legal stuff but this is just the way I see it


That would be so retarded. Why would they want to hunt down their fans and treat them like criminals? Have you noticed how hated the RIAA is these days? Is any other industry going to take a lesson from this and handle the transition to the digital age properly?

More importantly, as a consumer, why do you even think this is remotely acceptable? Did they really brainwash you that badly?

What are you talking about? RIAA? Digital age? Are you saying people are entitled to a video game, which the developers want compensation for, for free?
What I'm saying is this: if Blizzard wants people to pay $50 to play their game, then they should have that right and this right should be protected by law. It's the consumers choice to accept the deal or not. If you took their game for free... then you are, in fact, stealing.

And as for brainwashing I'm not sure but... it seems like they brainwashed me to think people like you lack any intelligence. Please make your arguments more clear next time.



Nope. You're a lost cause. See you in 10 years when things have changed. But I'm sure when that happens, you will have no realization of why, what economics changed, or how the industry adapted.

Enjoy your carriage, friend.

Calling me a lost cause based on two forum posts in which I invite arguments against my own? That's pretty low. Even for a troll.
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