• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:29
CEST 18:29
KST 01:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)9[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 2026 Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Where is EffOrt? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
Cara Refund Tiket Agoda The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8395 users

[SC2 E-Sports] Bubble or Wave? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 Next All
RacerX
Profile Joined December 2010
United States168 Posts
June 20 2011 04:41 GMT
#101
Of course Starcraft 1 did not retail as a perfect game and its expansion Brood War and its years of patching helped make it become a dominant e-sport.

I feel like your statement of will they make an "improvement" of making the game easier for casual players does not help the game, the game is already easier for casual players than brood war, requiring much less mechanics and to make the game easier would only hurt the competitive scene. I partially believe the reason why Brood War became so huge is because how hard it was to play and how much time you needed to put in to become a great player, I am not saying Starcraft 2 does not require you to put in time to became a great player but I feel like the skills needed to play at a pro scene are not as high as brood war. If this game was easier for casual gamers I would not like playing it, I love a game that requires sheer skill and talent over a game where you move a stick and hope you hit a few people before you die. Thats why Brood war players are so highly regarded they are so skilled at the game and they've put so much time into it. If you want to play casually fine, why would you dumb down the game so its easier to play at a higher level.

Starcraft has been growing rapidly, if you look at the viewers just at the event they have multiplied like rabbits. Even take a look at the viewers on the streams for the events they are always increasing. Big tournaments and small tournaments would not put up such a big prize pool if they did not have the money from their sponsors. As for new features to help the game in tournament environments all we really need is LAN......LAN blizzard.....LAN, you know that thing we had over 13 years ago, that didn't make tournaments have so many difficulties, LAN.

Foreign gamers are creating team houses and there are many that practice their hearts out. You can even read on team liquid that Reign just started a team house. If you're so worried about esports, watch a stream, a tournament, or even buy a premium pass that extras 10 cents or couple bucks helps push esports to the next level and shows your interest and that in return gets sponsor interest.

Starcraft 2 is only growing so I do not know how you can rate GSL B+ compared to MLG, GSL at least gives some money back to the players for their hard work. It also instills something to look forward to during the week, as their is always new play going on and favorite players playing all of the time. MLG is an event that is everyone once in a while, GSL is a consistent event. Casual gamers and viewers will prefer watching starcraft 2 over brood war, they'll see the old graphics and not want to stare at it. Right now Starcraft 2 is just eye candy and has yet to have a need for solid mechanics instilled into it. Starcraft 2 only has room to grow, brood war will become less and less popular slowly over time as the casual and die hard gamers will start to swing towards 2 as it improves (hopefully) over time.
Thats the power of pine sol
GenoPewPew
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States347 Posts
June 20 2011 04:54 GMT
#102
I honestly think that they need to support the team play aspect of things (not 3v3s or 4v4s but the 1v1 KOTH style) rather than oversaturate 1v1s which is what we're seeing. If IGN's league was teams instead of 1v1s, it would have been perfect. Right now, it's getting up there but there needs to be a big league besides the EG thing. A lot of the other games in the E-Sports industry all have some sort of involvement with the entire team.

For casual play, an unranked ladder would be alright since most people that go into the custom games lobby just look for Starjeweled or something and it wouldn't be scary. There are other things that I wish I could list like making the game a bit more micro intensive but that's Blizzard's department



Caster for GosuGamers.Net and www.binary-gaming.org for my team!
godemperor
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium2043 Posts
June 20 2011 05:07 GMT
#103
On June 20 2011 13:54 GenoPewPew wrote:
I honestly think that they need to support the team play aspect of things (not 3v3s or 4v4s but the 1v1 KOTH style) rather than oversaturate 1v1s which is what we're seeing. If IGN's league was teams instead of 1v1s, it would have been perfect. Right now, it's getting up there but there needs to be a big league besides the EG thing. A lot of the other games in the E-Sports industry all have some sort of involvement with the entire team.

For casual play, an unranked ladder would be alright since most people that go into the custom games lobby just look for Starjeweled or something and it wouldn't be scary. There are other things that I wish I could list like making the game a bit more micro intensive but that's Blizzard's department




That's why the GSTL is so much fun to watch, its was the same in BW PL is sometimes attracts more viewers than OLS/MSL. I especially like the winner league format.
Tokay
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden115 Posts
June 20 2011 05:12 GMT
#104
I'd say it's not a bubble, we have a very strong foundation with a lot of different sponsors for every event, not only one big ass sponsor who does everything. What we need to really "go big" is more non-computer related sponsors.
We got a solid viewer base on streams, we don't really need television, steady results and winners are starting to appear (which is important). We have upsets, which is as important. The story lines and hate matches are there, most of them involving idra and some other dude, but still.

E-sport will grow, but it will grow slow, which is good. If it grows slow, it shows it got a dedicated fanbase, and not just som fluke.
Atleast that's what I think.
MaxField
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2386 Posts
June 20 2011 05:14 GMT
#105
If it is a bubble, i hope it is one of them sponge bob bubbles. You know, the ones that you can make animals out of and send messages that activate upon popping? Ya, dat bubbles.

And if i ever find the person that pops the SC2 bubble, imma wreck them.
"Zerg, so bad it loses to hydras" IdrA.
GenoPewPew
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States347 Posts
June 20 2011 05:15 GMT
#106
On June 20 2011 14:07 godemperor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2011 13:54 GenoPewPew wrote:
I honestly think that they need to support the team play aspect of things (not 3v3s or 4v4s but the 1v1 KOTH style) rather than oversaturate 1v1s which is what we're seeing. If IGN's league was teams instead of 1v1s, it would have been perfect. Right now, it's getting up there but there needs to be a big league besides the EG thing. A lot of the other games in the E-Sports industry all have some sort of involvement with the entire team.

For casual play, an unranked ladder would be alright since most people that go into the custom games lobby just look for Starjeweled or something and it wouldn't be scary. There are other things that I wish I could list like making the game a bit more micro intensive but that's Blizzard's department




That's why the GSTL is so much fun to watch, its was the same in BW PL is sometimes attracts more viewers than OLS/MSL. I especially like the winner league format.


Yeah, I think it's exciting and as a spectator it's fun to watch and its how we learn of up and coming players in the scene
Caster for GosuGamers.Net and www.binary-gaming.org for my team!
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
June 20 2011 05:16 GMT
#107
Fantastic post. While I definitely hope eSports is finally becoming a viable and respectable career in the west, I can't help but worry. Blizzard seem to have their own agenda with Starcraft 2 that isn't in the interests of eSports while claiming the contrary (LAN is critical and they know it).
Mista_Masta
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands557 Posts
June 20 2011 05:28 GMT
#108
Good read. It's a very interesting topic. I hope SC2's popularity is not a bubble, but at this point I guess only time will tell.
InvalidID
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1050 Posts
June 20 2011 05:30 GMT
#109
On June 20 2011 14:16 branflakes14 wrote:
Fantastic post. While I definitely hope eSports is finally becoming a viable and respectable career in the west, I can't help but worry. Blizzard seem to have their own agenda with Starcraft 2 that isn't in the interests of eSports while claiming the contrary (LAN is critical and they know it).


LAN is not critical. But what is critical is a little bit of favoritism for and trust of their partners. They need to release a heavily stripped down version of BNET to allow for LAN equivalent play for the major tournaments, to ensure stability. They could just ship it as a packaged rack-mount box(like google does for their business search offerings), with heavy NDA restrictions, and everything would be good.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
June 20 2011 05:36 GMT
#110
On June 20 2011 13:54 GenoPewPew wrote:
I honestly think that they need to support the team play aspect of things (not 3v3s or 4v4s but the 1v1 KOTH style) rather than oversaturate 1v1s which is what we're seeing. If IGN's league was teams instead of 1v1s, it would have been perfect. Right now, it's getting up there but there needs to be a big league besides the EG thing. A lot of the other games in the E-Sports industry all have some sort of involvement with the entire team.

For casual play, an unranked ladder would be alright since most people that go into the custom games lobby just look for Starjeweled or something and it wouldn't be scary. There are other things that I wish I could list like making the game a bit more micro intensive but that's Blizzard's department


It's still going to be played out in 1v1 matches.
How the heck is a ladder service going to have teams?(!)

Again that's the community's responsibility.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
pHelix Equilibria
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1134 Posts
June 20 2011 06:35 GMT
#111
Wow. Read. Awesome. Yeah, I gotta say you're right about that bubble of the player pool. Its the one that I can really speak on the behalf of. I have a couple friends who has hit the 'wall' in the learning curve and they rarely play. Or just stick to customs. The game on a serious note doesn't go well with casual players over the long term.
LostBLuE
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada188 Posts
June 20 2011 06:39 GMT
#112
Wow really well done, I really hope it's a wave it just grabs everyone you know and evokes such a great emotional response I know I will be playing SC until the bitter end.
TLO " Well Sjow, it's almost the same prize for 2nd place " Sjow " I know, but it's more about the honor... -_- " TLO " All I care about is the honor "
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
June 20 2011 06:44 GMT
#113
Good read. I definetely think that the two expansions would help to retain casual players interest for an extended period of time, but its too early to tell whether the whole thing is just a huge bubble waiting to burst or not.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
June 20 2011 06:47 GMT
#114
I don't think sc2 is a bubble, but I don't think it is a wave either. It seems to me that it will certainly grow, and that the exchange of worldwide talent alongside gaming venues on the international scale will only benefit the growth of the game. However, the sheer learning curve of the game is very discouraging to new players, although I don't quite know how much fluency with the game impacts spectatorship. With all of these factors in mind, the game appears to be heading towards continual growth, though I predict the growth itself will be moderate, or at least experience a boom during the infancy of the game which will be attenuated as the game progresses in years.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
kvn4444
Profile Joined September 2010
1510 Posts
June 20 2011 07:26 GMT
#115
As others, i have also been thinking this big boom in interest for pro sc2 would decline eventually. the expansions will help keep player interest. more corporation btw diff leagues also help as foreigner vs korean provide the best storyline, entertainment, and skill level for me at least so long as the skill gap doesn't become to great. hopefully fxo does well in the gstl and the 3 code A invites as well.
Derrida
Profile Joined March 2011
2885 Posts
June 20 2011 07:27 GMT
#116
I think it is irrelevant to assign grades to tournaments based on financial efficiency while (somewhat) ignoring the most important factor: SPONSORS.

This game will have sponsors as long as it is "the" e-sports, and lets be honest, it has no contenders as of now or in visible future. I mean watching DHS2011, at one point I saw 90k+ people on Day9 stream, and possibly 110-120k+ in all streams which is almost double the number of TSL games, which shows that viewership base is growing steadily. Huge companies like TELIA have commercials directed specifically at gamers while sponsoring these tournaments, as well as brands such as Coca-Cola, Alienware, etc. sponsoring indirectly.

In short, this may be a bubble, but as long as no games can contest for its place in the spotlight, it will not burst.
#1 Grubby Fan.
sVnteen
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2238 Posts
June 20 2011 07:53 GMT
#117
Nice work sir

hope blizzard wont let us down
MY LIFE STARTS NOW ♥
vollpfosten
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany11 Posts
June 20 2011 07:54 GMT
#118
"best way to predict future is to invent it" - Alan Kay

and just btw your Rating is not convincing in anyway - image s&p would kinda rate like this 8)
Evangelist
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1246 Posts
June 20 2011 09:52 GMT
#119
There is an acceptance amongst most people in most sports that winning and losing in a team game is an enjoyable experience. There are millions that play football every week, casually or otherwise, but the ones really interested in it are doing so in small, lower league tournies. Their victories are smaller, but they are still victories.

Starcraft 2 will be considered a success when tournaments for silver and gold league players are significantly MORE common than those for grandmaster league players. Everyone wants to get to GM to show off, but most people simply do not have the dedication to pump enough time to make it worth their while. However, if silver and gold leagers had their own BLIZZARD SUPPORTED tournaments (which is key, btw), SC2 will continue to expand.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-20 10:21:08
June 20 2011 09:52 GMT
#120
On June 20 2011 09:44 deadjawa wrote:
This “grind” has victimized most of my friends who initially bought the game with high hopes
Same for my friends. The problem is, that with a smaller pool of such casual players, it is more likely to get matched against someone who plays more serious, making winning more difficult and driving away even more casual players.

On June 20 2011 13:41 RacerX wrote:
I feel like your statement of will they make an "improvement" of making the game easier for casual players does not help the game, the game is already easier for casual players than brood war, requiring much less mechanics and to make the game easier would only hurt the competitive scene.
I would say, that is not the point. Even if SC2 would be mechanically easier, it still would drive many casual gamers away because they get crushed too often. If you are new to RTS, you should be prepared to lose umpteen games with very few random wins inbetween. Beginners get the impression that all other players are like zombies on crack, only trying to kill the opponent as fast as possible and with the most abusive units possible. It is too fast-paced and too hard to understand even for bronze level.

The solution is not to slow down or dumb down Starcraft, but to integreate a playing field for all true casual gamers where they can battle each other. The Blizzard ladder promotes cheeses and all-ins and fast rushes and harass were your workers are attacked and so on. This is too much for many potential players.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#56
RotterdaM610
TaKeTV 279
TKL 155
IndyStarCraft 50
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 610
mouzHeroMarine 164
TKL 155
SteadfastSC 121
SHIN 74
BRAT_OK 62
trigger 57
UpATreeSC 51
IndyStarCraft 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1706
Sea 1408
EffOrt 807
Mini 779
Horang2 722
Soulkey 260
Mong 125
actioN 82
hero 48
Hyun 46
[ Show more ]
Free 45
scan(afreeca) 42
Aegong 33
Barracks 28
yabsab 23
Rock 19
soO 15
Bale 14
GoRush 13
Shine 11
Noble 11
Dota 2
Gorgc4788
qojqva2682
BananaSlamJamma148
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m7569
zeus241
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King115
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK8
Other Games
gofns37129
tarik_tv11862
Trikslyr1650
B2W.Neo958
hiko549
XaKoH 120
KnowMe95
C9.Mang069
QueenE67
Dewaltoss42
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2407
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 67
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 28
• Michael_bg 20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade700
Other Games
• Shiphtur158
Upcoming Events
OSC
7h 31m
ByuN vs Shameless
PiGosaur Cup
1d 7h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
GSL
4 days
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Patches Events
6 days
[ Show More ]
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.