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On June 18 2011 06:53 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:31 vyyye wrote:On June 18 2011 06:24 Primadog wrote:
Friends, stop being so ridiculus.
We wanted more foreigners in GSL, so GOM gave away Code A/S spots.
We want to see a foreigner team in GSTL, so GOM invited and accommodated FXOpen.
We asked GOM to blow up GSTL, so GOM made it into a full league.
The least we can do is chip in a bit for the prize pool? Gom having done a lot of good doesn't change the fact that it's quite expensive. Won't be buying, will be watching any stream I have time for though. 1) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 2) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 3) dude. it's cheaper than it used to be. It's like complaining that a gallon of milk is more expensive than a quart of milk, despite the fact that the gallon is cheaper than 4 quarts would be, SO YOURE GETTING MORE STUFF FOR YOUR MONEY
this is an excellent excellent point. 10/10.
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I believe it's expensive - but I'll probably buy it. But I'm going to withhold on buying it first, in case they drop the price.
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On June 18 2011 06:58 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:31 Snuggles wrote:
I'd pay if it were $20, just a $5 difference but for some reason $25 just looks like too much. But then each of the 35 sets would be worth 57 cents each. The old GSTL price made each of its 7 sets be worth 71 cents each for a total of $5. The new GSTL price charges each of its 35 sets 71 cents each for a total of $25. The price per set is the EXACT SAME as the previous GSTLs. You just get way more sets, so the total price is more expensive. Well, OF COURSE buying 5 hamburgers costs 5 times as much as buying 1 hamburger. >_>
lol it's actually cheaper =P
I would love a GOMTV Loyalty package though
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On June 18 2011 06:15 Elite__ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 05:33 godemperor wrote:On June 18 2011 05:29 Elite__ wrote:On June 18 2011 05:22 Skank wrote:On June 18 2011 04:56 Skwid1g wrote:On June 17 2011 19:40 Niick wrote:
Let me get this straight guys
You will pay $5 for 4 days of play, but $25 for 25 days play is too much?
Hey would you look at that, a dollar a day. before you were paying $1.25. There were also be more 1-sided stomp matches that just aren't worth watching. I'll probably just try and tune in live. On June 18 2011 04:43 Meta wrote:
I wouldn't even buy the GSTL when it was at $5.
Maybe someday the GSL will get with the fucking program and stop charging us... na that's never gonna happen. At least there's Dreamhack! Yes, they should just provide daily SC with English commentary, HQ, etc. for free. They aren't a business or anything. Derp. Haha, yeah I think its really alright for the NASL and GSTL to charge $25, that's cheap as hell considering how many hours of good games you get. Furthermore, your helping the community. I think the OP is trying to say that $25 is too much for the amount of content you get in the GSTL. NASL is 5 days a week and it is $25 for the hd and vods, but the new GSTL is (2 days?) a week and lasts about as long as the NASL bracket season, but it costs the same price. First, its a team league so its already much better than NASL, second the quality of these games are way higher than NASL's, more than half of NASL's group play is just terrible. (either really one sided, or 2 bad players, drebie vs painuser was just so painful to watch) I understand that, but speaking in numbers, NASL is the better deal and that is why some people may have a problem with it, that's all.
Thats your opinion. I wouldnt spend $5 on NASL, shit sucks.
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On June 18 2011 06:59 Gorguts wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:15 Elite__ wrote:On June 18 2011 05:33 godemperor wrote:On June 18 2011 05:29 Elite__ wrote:On June 18 2011 05:22 Skank wrote:On June 18 2011 04:56 Skwid1g wrote:On June 17 2011 19:40 Niick wrote:
Let me get this straight guys
You will pay $5 for 4 days of play, but $25 for 25 days play is too much?
Hey would you look at that, a dollar a day. before you were paying $1.25. There were also be more 1-sided stomp matches that just aren't worth watching. I'll probably just try and tune in live. On June 18 2011 04:43 Meta wrote:
I wouldn't even buy the GSTL when it was at $5.
Maybe someday the GSL will get with the fucking program and stop charging us... na that's never gonna happen. At least there's Dreamhack! Yes, they should just provide daily SC with English commentary, HQ, etc. for free. They aren't a business or anything. Derp. Haha, yeah I think its really alright for the NASL and GSTL to charge $25, that's cheap as hell considering how many hours of good games you get. Furthermore, your helping the community. I think the OP is trying to say that $25 is too much for the amount of content you get in the GSTL. NASL is 5 days a week and it is $25 for the hd and vods, but the new GSTL is (2 days?) a week and lasts about as long as the NASL bracket season, but it costs the same price. First, its a team league so its already much better than NASL, second the quality of these games are way higher than NASL's, more than half of NASL's group play is just terrible. (either really one sided, or 2 bad players, drebie vs painuser was just so painful to watch) I understand that, but speaking in numbers, NASL is the better deal and that is why some people may have a problem with it, that's all. Thats your opinion. I wouldnt spend $5 on NASL, shit sucks.
NASL isn't bad, it's just Gom is too good. We're spoiled by Gom's high quality service =P
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Okay I kind of don't get the complaint for paying $25 bucks for the GSTL, everyone knows the GSTL is FAR more epic to watch than the GSL especially where finals are concerned. I'm assuming the finals of this GSTL will have a stadium booked like the GSL finals so that will make it even more epic.
We preach of how companies and people should support e-sports but it's actually all of us that needs to put the money and viewership into e-sports if we truly want it to grow.
It is a bit expensive compared to how much GSL and GSTL have cost in the past but it seems as though it's completely worth it.
How much would people rather it be other than free (which is an option if you are willing to stay up ad watch it).
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I have some mix feelings about this, dont know what to do, 25 seems a lil to much, I know its a lot of content, but hell imagine if they keep doing this 4 GSTLs a year will be 100, plus the GSL we will be using more than $200 a year just for SC2 content, not even my GolTV sportpackage from rogers is that expensive :S and I can watch Real Madrid and Barcelona every weekend, and its just 8bucks a month + fox sports and the Serie A League.
I want to buy it and support it but damn... why not puting 30 and mixing GSL and GSTL together? fuck I have to pay 25 now and then GSL pay another 10-15 more.
The content of SC2 is getting out of hand.
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On June 18 2011 06:53 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:31 vyyye wrote:On June 18 2011 06:24 Primadog wrote:
Friends, stop being so ridiculus.
We wanted more foreigners in GSL, so GOM gave away Code A/S spots.
We want to see a foreigner team in GSTL, so GOM invited and accommodated FXOpen.
We asked GOM to blow up GSTL, so GOM made it into a full league.
The least we can do is chip in a bit for the prize pool? Gom having done a lot of good doesn't change the fact that it's quite expensive. Won't be buying, will be watching any stream I have time for though. 1) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 2) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 3) dude. it's cheaper than it used to be. It's like complaining that a gallon of milk is more expensive than a quart of milk, despite the fact that the gallon is cheaper than 4 quarts would be, SO YOURE GETTING MORE STUFF FOR YOUR MONEY
Sure, I never argued otherwise. I thought the GSTL was expensive as well. If the GSTL was the only league I cared for I would pay in an instant, but instead I'm spreading my money between all of these 'cheap' services and it bloody adds up. And paying for VODs with ads? That shit's pretty dumb.
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We dont even know if its tasteless and artosis who are commentating, I dont want the GSLT to become another CODE A crap where I stop watching it because moletrap was horrible and damn just having wolf doing solo casting is not right.
Cant you imagine paying 25 and you have to hear moletrap 3more months..... sorry i dont have anything against the guy, but we really need better commentators if we are rasing the subscriptions.
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On June 18 2011 06:58 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:53 Blazinghand wrote:On June 18 2011 06:31 vyyye wrote:On June 18 2011 06:24 Primadog wrote:
Friends, stop being so ridiculus.
We wanted more foreigners in GSL, so GOM gave away Code A/S spots.
We want to see a foreigner team in GSTL, so GOM invited and accommodated FXOpen.
We asked GOM to blow up GSTL, so GOM made it into a full league.
The least we can do is chip in a bit for the prize pool? Gom having done a lot of good doesn't change the fact that it's quite expensive. Won't be buying, will be watching any stream I have time for though. 1) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 2) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 3) dude. it's cheaper than it used to be. It's like complaining that a gallon of milk is more expensive than a quart of milk, despite the fact that the gallon is cheaper than 4 quarts would be, SO YOURE GETTING MORE STUFF FOR YOUR MONEY this is an excellent excellent point. 10/10.
There's a little more to it in the sense that there's a lot of Starcraft to watch right now, and asking a high amount for the ticket for one specific tournament can be off-putting for some people.
Using your own comparison, let's say I can choose a gallon of milk, or one or two quarts of milk, now the gallon may provide better overall value, but there's also the aspect of the expiry date, if I only drink 1-2 quarts out of that gallon before it expires, I just wasted the rest that I could have saved by buying 2 quarts. In that sense, there are people who aren't that interested in watching every match and for that purpose the old pricing was better since if I only cared about 3-4 teams, I'd still consider the asking price adequate, but if I only care about 3-4 teams for this asking price, it's a little steeper.
It's not some ridiculous ticketing price, but it's not as simple as some people are making it out to be.
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Why are you guys even arguing about this. One look and I already saw that it was cheaper just due to the amount of matches. You guys were spoilt with the low cost of the last GSTL because there was little matches. Now when they give you like 10x the amount of matches, you complain when they raise the pricex5? Honestly. I can see however why you are complaining about GSTL taking GSL time.
And you say that 2 days a week isn't worth the $25 for 2 1/2 months? Woooow. I guess GOMTV should release an apology to everyone saying sorry that the teams can't play every day while GSL is on. Also, you say that the GSL $10 6 days a week is good. Of course the GSL is going to have to be cut short. There is only so much a week that can be broadcasted. We wanted GSTL, we got it. Of course there is going to be sacrifices in some other area of GOMTV's broadcasting. And it's the GSL, I don't know if they're going to be broadcasting all the games or just selected games. I really don't care because GOMTV is giving you 5-6 days A WEEK of SC2 for pretty much no cost over a few months. If you didn't want the GSTL then you have all rights to complain, but it sounds like you actually wanted it. Also you do realize that there are a lot less players in GSTL, and these players are actually playing in the GSL and it's about getting whole teams of players to play at one time. So you have a lower density of players in the GSTL, GSL restrictions, and broadcasting time restrictions. GSTL is a minimum of 7 matches isn't it?(first to 7) so there could be 14 matches in one cast compared to the 4 rounds of GSL which could be 8-12. I just don't see why everyone is complaining. Also presuming GSL price increase is a little stupid. Until there is verification of GSL price increase please keep your presumptions out of a complaint, it just really makes you look like you are emotionally backing your argument instead of factually.
Also wtf. Matches that count won't be until the end? Isn't it like.. you know, all counted in the end? It's kinda like NASL isn't it? Like the best scores go to the final. Anyways, I could be wrong. But you're saying you watch competitive SC2 to see people get knocked out? I watch competitive SC2 to entertain myself. I really don't care who wins or loses(except if CrunCher wins), as long as I can see a good match, I'm happy. I know a lot of people only tune into specific matches to see if their favourite player wins, but I don't see how this effects them because they'll only watch the LQ stream because buying a pass just to watch one player who could be knocked out in his first round is just stupid.
Some of you guys really need to get some ass action because your ass' are way too tight.
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On June 18 2011 07:29 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 06:58 L3g3nd_ wrote:On June 18 2011 06:53 Blazinghand wrote:On June 18 2011 06:31 vyyye wrote:On June 18 2011 06:24 Primadog wrote:
Friends, stop being so ridiculus.
We wanted more foreigners in GSL, so GOM gave away Code A/S spots.
We want to see a foreigner team in GSTL, so GOM invited and accommodated FXOpen.
We asked GOM to blow up GSTL, so GOM made it into a full league.
The least we can do is chip in a bit for the prize pool? Gom having done a lot of good doesn't change the fact that it's quite expensive. Won't be buying, will be watching any stream I have time for though. 1) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 2) It's cheaper than it used to be on a per-match basis, since the ticket buys you a lot more matches 3) dude. it's cheaper than it used to be. It's like complaining that a gallon of milk is more expensive than a quart of milk, despite the fact that the gallon is cheaper than 4 quarts would be, SO YOURE GETTING MORE STUFF FOR YOUR MONEY this is an excellent excellent point. 10/10. There's a little more to it in the sense that there's a lot of Starcraft to watch right now, and asking a high amount for the ticket for one specific tournament can be off-putting for some people. Using your own comparison, let's say I can choose a gallon of milk, or one or two quarts of milk, now the gallon may provide better overall value, but there's also the aspect of the expiry date, if I only drink 1-2 quarts out of that gallon before it expires, I just wasted the rest that I could have saved by buying 2 quarts. In that sense, there are people who aren't that interested in watching every match and for that purpose the old pricing was better since if I only cared about 3-4 teams, I'd still consider the asking price adequate, but if I only care about 3-4 teams for this asking price, it's a little steeper. It's not some ridiculous ticketing price, but it's not as simple as some people are making it out to be.
Sir, I think you just nailed 100%
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On June 18 2011 05:39 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 05:23 karpo wrote:On June 18 2011 05:14 Mordiford wrote:On June 18 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:
They can't continue doing these shows for practically nothing forever. $25 is less than a pizza and a movie at the theater here in sweden. I'll pay cause GOM produces the best matches with the best casters. Those comparisons are silly, refer to earlier post. If the price works for you, that's great, but drawing such comparisons to pizza and a movie is a little bizarre to me since there are dozens of other instances you could think of which would be cheaper or more expensive based on what you choose. I'm just saying that $25 bucks for supporting GOM and getting great games is a no brainer for me. I'm not rich but that kind of money is easily spent a night out or just on garbage food/entertainment yet people cry like it's the end of the world. Also comparing it to any kind of purchased entertainment (games/movies/books) and it's frigging cheap. The first part is up to you, the second doesn't make sense, because you could draw plenty of examples where the value for this pales in comparison, you can get games for $20 with a hundred hours of content, a book for $10 which is 1000 pages long, a dinner for $10 or a dinner for $100. A movie for $20 or an entire season of television shows for free. There are way to many comparisons that are both good or bad that you can make in other mediums, keeping it within the realm of Starcraft or eSports is generally the best way to draw valid comparisons. That's where I say there's so much content available for near-free/free and while GOM has always boasted some of the best production quality, I don't know if it's enough to draw me in this time around, with things like MLG, IPL, Dreamhack all available for free/near-free and the NASL on at decent hours, there's already so much Starcraft available to watch for no cost, that a ticket just doesn't seem worth it to me in comparison.
The average fresh console game (Uncharted/Dead Space/Resident Evil etc) is about 10-15 hours singleplayer for $60. The average book in pocket format is $10 and can be read through in a day or two. Going to the movies is $10-15 for the ticket alone. Buying a new DVD/BluRay is $10-15. All these things are purchasable entertainment, just like the GSTL. None of those offer as much entertainment hours / dollar. Comparing them does make sense as these are things people regularly spend cash on that they never really thing about.
Also MLG, IPL, NASL and Dreamhack does not provide the same level of play nor the same production values that GOM brings. In my opinion the GSL is where the top SC2 play is at. It to me is the premier venue and they should charge enough to keep producing awesome consistent content. (Compared to weekend tournaments and games that aren't even played live in a studio).
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I am going to end up buying it most likely but Tastosis casting this will guarantee my buying it along with many others I am sure.
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Dear Diary,
Today I learned two things about the TeamLiquid.net community today. First, they are whining cheapskates that do not understand the value of money and expect to get everything on the internet for a single ridiculously low price with out contemplating the actual value of it. Maybe it's because they are unemployed teenagers living with their parents and $25 is too much for them in on payment?
Secondly, some of them do not even properly appreciate the Starcraft tournament scene. I mean, all they worry about are what commentators are casting and never think about the quality of the games or the competition. They also have this expectation that the players they want and think should win should be winning all the time, and if they don't or they witness an 'upset' they complain and cry 'this tournament is shit'.
It's a shame to see the children act this way. I do hope that they learn to appreciate the right stuff about the GSL rather than their shallow idea of what the GSL should be. It does seem like the community is getting worse and worse ever since Brood War lost it's 'power' in the west. If it continues to go to shit like this I doubt that there will be enough support for events like this in the future.
As Always,
Myself
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On June 18 2011 07:53 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 05:39 Mordiford wrote:On June 18 2011 05:23 karpo wrote:On June 18 2011 05:14 Mordiford wrote:On June 18 2011 05:09 karpo wrote:
They can't continue doing these shows for practically nothing forever. $25 is less than a pizza and a movie at the theater here in sweden. I'll pay cause GOM produces the best matches with the best casters. Those comparisons are silly, refer to earlier post. If the price works for you, that's great, but drawing such comparisons to pizza and a movie is a little bizarre to me since there are dozens of other instances you could think of which would be cheaper or more expensive based on what you choose. I'm just saying that $25 bucks for supporting GOM and getting great games is a no brainer for me. I'm not rich but that kind of money is easily spent a night out or just on garbage food/entertainment yet people cry like it's the end of the world. Also comparing it to any kind of purchased entertainment (games/movies/books) and it's frigging cheap. The first part is up to you, the second doesn't make sense, because you could draw plenty of examples where the value for this pales in comparison, you can get games for $20 with a hundred hours of content, a book for $10 which is 1000 pages long, a dinner for $10 or a dinner for $100. A movie for $20 or an entire season of television shows for free. There are way to many comparisons that are both good or bad that you can make in other mediums, keeping it within the realm of Starcraft or eSports is generally the best way to draw valid comparisons. That's where I say there's so much content available for near-free/free and while GOM has always boasted some of the best production quality, I don't know if it's enough to draw me in this time around, with things like MLG, IPL, Dreamhack all available for free/near-free and the NASL on at decent hours, there's already so much Starcraft available to watch for no cost, that a ticket just doesn't seem worth it to me in comparison. The average fresh console game (Uncharted/Dead Space/Resident Evil etc) is about 10-15 hours singleplayer for $60. The average book in pocket format is $10 and can be read through in a day or two. Going to the movies is $10-15 for the ticket alone. Buying a new DVD/BluRay is $10-15. All these things are purchasable entertainment, just like the GSTL. None of those offer as much entertainment hours / dollar. Comparing them does make sense as these are things people regularly spend cash on that they never really thing about. Also MLG, IPL, NASL and Dreamhack does not provide the same level of play nor the same production values that GOM brings. In my opinion the GSL is where the top SC2 play is at. It to me is the premier venue and they should charge enough to keep producing awesome consistent content. (Compared to weekend tournaments and games that aren't even played live in a studio).
I can watch all kinds of television shows, even recent ones for free on Hulu. Also, the "read in a day or two" is quite an interesting observation, I often take my time to read a book, and if you watched VODs back to back, you could certainly get through the entirety of the tournament in a couple of days. You can take these comparisons in many, many, many directions when you try to delve into different mediums. The average fresh console game also has a ridiculous amount of production value in comparison, if you want to compare the level of play from the events I mentioned to the GSL, might as well bring up production value.
That is what the GSL leads in, it's not always the quality of the games. The GSL is where we see a ridiculous amount of meta-gaming, all-ins and timing attacks. We've seen quite a few all-kills in the GSTL as well, the disparity is not that large if at all, I honestly considered Columbus as exciting, if not more-so, than any GSL event in recent memory and easily comparable to any GSTL event. The thing is, a team league of that sort is something that doesn't have an easy comparator, so drawing for some in other mediums doesn't work because there are so many than can be pulled for either side.
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I'm buying it because I think the matches are worth it... people always spam how the GSTL games are the most epic ever. Since I don't have the time to stay up every night to watch them, the pass is worth it. Simple enough, for me at least.
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GSTL is awesome and 25 bucks for 2.5 months is hardly anything. A 1-2 hour movie at the theatre is like 10 dollars just to get in. With snacks and everything you could spend 25 dollars quite easily. Once you take into account that SC2 >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty much any blockbuster movie it's absolutely worth it.
I will gladly pay 25 dollars for GSTL.
I don't even care about ads. They are 20-30 seconds at the beginning of each set.
Lol, fucked up my vote in the poll. Hit "about right won't purchase" instead of "about right will purchase"
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On June 18 2011 08:33 SnipedSoul wrote:
GSTL is awesome and 25 bucks for 2.5 months is hardly anything. A 1-2 hour movie at the theatre is like 10 dollars just to get in. With snacks and everything you could spend 25 dollars quite easily. Once you take into account that SC2 >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty much any blockbuster movie it's absolutely worth it.
I will gladly pay 25 dollars for GSTL.
I don't even care about ads. They are 20-30 seconds at the beginning of each set.
Lol, fucked up my vote in the poll. Hit "about right won't purchase" instead of "about right will purchase"
These comparisons are bogus, refer to earlier posts. -.-
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It is worth every dime.
With 35 matches that could easily be 3 hours each you are getting more then 100 hours of the best production, the best games, the best teams, the best SC2 players and the best casters that the Starcraft 2 scene has to offer. Best 25 bucks ever spent.
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EPT
