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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On June 15 2011 11:00 Gnax wrote: They don't show it because they don't want hackers to figure out exactly how their system works. This and people would inevitably start poking holes in the system if they knew how it worked (they already do at the bottom of bronze). But IIRC favored/slightly favored are affected by both MMR and points which is why it can l give strange results. | ||
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
I just play. I am not my league, nor am I my MMR. I am my skill level whether it is custom or ladder. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On June 15 2011 17:29 Probe1 wrote: I don't mind MMR being hidden. I don't even mind being stuck at 1st for a solid week and not receiving a promotion despite having a solid win rate. I just play. I am not my league, nor am I my MMR. I am my skill level whether it is custom or ladder. well said, I could not have worded it better. | ||
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Sedz
Australia123 Posts
Last night I played a few games, I'm around Rank 12 in Plat, I beat 4 low diamonds in a row, the last two being even, I then go up against a Silver player who is slightly favoured. The silver players has 3k wins and almost 2k points. Dunno how this happens... also earlier today, a friend of mine in Bronze versed a guy in Diamond who was 'slightly favoured'. | ||
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Shottaz
United Kingdom414 Posts
On June 15 2011 17:40 Sedz wrote: I really don't like this system Last night I played a few games, I'm around Rank 12 in Plat, I beat 4 low diamonds in a row, the last two being even, I then go up against a Silver player who is slightly favoured. The silver players has 3k wins and almost 2k points. Dunno how this happens... also earlier today, a friend of mine in Bronze versed a guy in Diamond who was 'slightly favoured'. The Diamonds were probably on the way to being relegated, the Silver player probably hadnt lost a game to 'stabalize' in a division. Edit* Just realised I used probably twice, this is what happens when you use the system Blizzard has, they will have had a similar MMR to you though. I personally like the Bliz system, if you use your bonus pool you have a reasonable knowledge of where you are at. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 15 2011 17:21 L3g3nd_ wrote: How do you come to this conclusion? Overall I consider the current SC2 ladder system much better than the ICCup system, because ICCup was just good for some competition-oriented players while the SC2 ladder suits the needs of the majority of players.theres no question that the iccup system is by far the best. | ||
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FrostFire626
United States79 Posts
On June 15 2011 11:19 oxxo wrote: Blizzard's system is more than fine. MMR fluctuates too much. Your ladder ranking eventually reflects your MMR pretty closely. What's the problem? Ladder ranking doesn't reflect your MMR at all actually. With multiple skill "tiers" in each league, one player may be vastly superior to another at the exact same rank, especially in Diamond. I agree with blizzard removing the win/loss ratio since the entire ladder system pushes every player towards 1:1, and I do see some logic in hiding MMR. It's just sad that it's impossible to tell how good a player is by looking at their rank unless they are masters+. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 15 2011 18:43 FrostFire626 wrote: Ladder ranking doesn't reflect your MMR at all actually. With multiple skill "tiers" in each league, one player may be vastly superior to another at the exact same rank, especially in Diamond. I agree with blizzard removing the win/loss ratio since the entire ladder system pushes every player towards 1:1, and I do see some logic in hiding MMR. It's just sad that it's impossible to tell how good a player is by looking at their rank unless they are masters+. that's because those players are inconsistent. it's not because those players are good or bad. It's because they're good and bad | ||
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perestain
Germany308 Posts
Blizzard even decides not to tell you how often you lost, if you're below masters league. (= unclear if you are motivated to buy the sequel) It's not like transparency has a lower priority compared to marketing, is has no priority at all. | ||
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Arcanewinds
United Kingdom197 Posts
It feels to me that the races I play against most rotates, so that blizzard can work out my MMR against each race. The ladder points just shows an average of this. This being, so that if I'm fricken awesome versus Protoss and Terran, I don't get stomped by Zergs that are better than my TvZ. It makes sense that they would implement that, seeing as they like to encourage people to play, plus it'd make sense for playing 8 terrans one day, then 6 zergs the next, then a bunch of protoss, and then 3 randoms in a row. Just a theory until its confirmed mind.. ;D. On June 15 2011 17:26 FenneK wrote: I hear you. As for me, I'm getting matched vs only Masters players, with a 3:1 winrate vs them in the last week (about 30 games) and still no promotion I just got an NA account, I have 60 games played, around 50 of those played against masters (1 GM) and I haven't been promoted above platinum. Pretty sure I just need to wait for my MMR to catch up though ^_^. | ||
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piegasm
United States266 Posts
On June 15 2011 13:18 PeggyHill wrote: So you are just following the party line RE potential exploitation of the MMR system. Fact is, knowledge of the number wouldn't give anyone any more capability to change it, beyond winning games. That is a fact. I want to see win/loss because it is a stat I want to see. It's a common statistic used throughout every form of competition known to man. It is important to note that there is a difference between win/loss meaning a player is good or not, and that win/loss has no meaning at all. The difference is subtle, and no doubt lost on many people. There is absolutely no reason NOT to give a player as many stats as possible, IF there is the option to hide these if someone wishes. In fact I'd argue that the lack of a win/loss turns off more gamers than the lack of it encourages newbies. I'm not following the party line, I'm following Blizzard's line as that's the reason they've given. I'm going to go out on a limb and venture that Blizzard knows more about how their system works than you do. The fact that you can't see how it could be exploited doesn't mean that exploitation isn't possible. Things are not facts simply because you declare them to be facts. "But I wannnnnaaaaaaa see it"... For the third time: for all intents and purposes, you CAN see it. You see your wins. Your losses are equal to your wins. Your win/loss is <your wins>/<your wins +/- a few>. You can argue anything you want. You can't prove things without evidence, of which you have none. The only people I've seen who are turned off by not being able to see their win/loss are people like you who refuse to understand that there's no reason to care what it is. | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
On June 15 2011 11:18 blade55555 wrote: O_O what? If 90% of the players were stuck in D or D+ then that is their skill ranking. If you could get to B+ you were good, you could not get to B+ by just cheesing or all inning every game which was awesome. I don't even think you could really get past C+ with pure cheese but could be wrong ^^. New-to-the-scene-player, meet Octzerg. That guy ONLY played all-ins and cheeses. Most of his wins were due to his AMAZING muta micro. Managed to get to A- on iCCup. He gave so much to the community. Endless replays of him vs. IdrA - and not the extremely gm IdrA Starcraft 2 fans of today call "BM!!!!!!!!111111". It all came to a Grand Finale in TSL 2, where the eStro-Progamer IdrA, who has spent two years learning TvZ from the very best of the best, was finally able to play an extremely close 2-1 series. Oh yeah, IdrAs TvZ was always special (like in SpecialEd). Anyone remember the F91 games? | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 15 2011 19:32 Arcanewinds wrote: You also need the MMR to stabilize. At the beginning you can gain or lose large amounts of MMR points. Once you get closer to your true MMR rating, you can get into a new league. It is even possible to get a promotion after a lost game.I just got an NA account, I have 60 games played, around 50 of those played against masters (1 GM) and I haven't been promoted above platinum. Pretty sure I just need to wait for my MMR to catch up though ^_^. To be more specific, the MMR needs to stabilize in one league tiers, it is not sufficient to stabilize for just diamond. ExcaliburZ has more details http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273 | ||
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Evantas
Singapore61 Posts
On June 15 2011 19:32 Arcanewinds wrote: When laddering I get the feeling that there isn't 1 single number for MMR. It feels to me that the races I play against most rotates, so that blizzard can work out my MMR against each race. The ladder points just shows an average of this. This being, so that if I'm fricken awesome versus Protoss and Terran, I don't get stomped by Zergs that are better than my TvZ. It makes sense that they would implement that, seeing as they like to encourage people to play, plus it'd make sense for playing 8 terrans one day, then 6 zergs the next, then a bunch of protoss, and then 3 randoms in a row. Just a theory until its confirmed mind.. ;D. Yea, I think so. Earlier on, I was facing an avalanche of Zergs and some Terrans. Then now suddenly all full-on Protosses and Randoms. I bet my MMR is extremely confusing as I've been winning something like 75% TvT, 50% TvZ, and 25% TvP. It's kinda funny how I can beat a Masters level Terran one day, and lose to a silver Random (Toss) the next... > < | ||
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Slyce
United Kingdom173 Posts
Ladder ranking is a pretty close indication to skill really. I do however think people need to stop obsessing about which league they are in and just work on getting better. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 15 2011 20:47 Slyce wrote: No it is not due to invisible league tiers. For master and grand master however the ranking (after subtracting spent bonus pool) should be quite close once you played enough games.I would say that assuming players have 0 bonus pool. Ladder ranking is a pretty close indication to skill really. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On June 15 2011 17:40 Sedz wrote: I really don't like this system Last night I played a few games, I'm around Rank 12 in Plat, I beat 4 low diamonds in a row, the last two being even, I then go up against a Silver player who is slightly favoured. The silver players has 3k wins and almost 2k points. Dunno how this happens... also earlier today, a friend of mine in Bronze versed a guy in Diamond who was 'slightly favoured'. so what your trying to say is. while you were busy taking detailed notes of exactly who you beat and who you dont, you couldnt be bothered to look through the massive thread telling you how the match making system worked and instead, came here to vent? | ||
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