EPTIs A Real MMR Too Much to Ask For? - Page 7
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:30 Baarn wrote: You don't need mmr when you can see match history and who the player win or lose to. Too bad that takes like 20 minutes, and still isn't reliable because Blizzard's rankings mean nothing since you can't see their raw MMR. | ||
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Mendelfist
Sweden356 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227243 It's as close to MMR as you'll get. You can't use it to compare yourself to others, and it doesn't work across promotions/demotions, but otherwise it will (unlike points) quite accurately help you track your progress. | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:38 Mendelfist wrote: Use this script: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227243 It's as close to MMR as you'll get. You can't use it to compare yourself to others, and it doesn't work across promotions/demotions, but otherwise it will (unlike points) quite accurately help you track your progress. This is super sweet!! Thanks so much for posting this! I see what you mean about it not working across all leagues/promotions/demotions etc. But I definitely think that this is the best way to track progress and improvement I've found (besides replay analyses through SC2Gears obviously). | ||
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DestroManiak
257 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:28 Gnax wrote: I'm not a hacker bro. If me, let alone blizzard, knew how their system can be abused, they wouldn't have to worry about it. EXPLAIN HOW IT WILL BE ABUSED ffs, enough with your one-liners, answer the question asked instead of TRYING to be funny with "clever", sarcastic comments for once... | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On June 16 2011 01:05 DestroManiak wrote: EXPLAIN HOW IT WILL BE ABUSED ffs, enough with your one-liners, answer the question asked instead of TRYING to be funny with "clever", sarcastic comments for once... The clear fact is that there is no negative impact to any supposed 'exploit' of the MMR system. | ||
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LagT_T
Argentina535 Posts
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BillSmauz
United States51 Posts
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Mendelfist
Sweden356 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:46 Chronald wrote: This is super sweet!! Thanks so much for posting this! I see what you mean about it not working across all leagues/promotions/demotions etc. But I definitely think that this is the best way to track progress and improvement I've found (besides replay analyses through SC2Gears obviously). Send the author a PM and thank him. Maybe that encouragement will get him to fix the bugs I posted in his thread. :-) I don't even know if he has read it yet. He is not very acitve it seems. | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
On June 16 2011 01:05 DestroManiak wrote: EXPLAIN HOW IT WILL BE ABUSED ffs, enough with your one-liners, answer the question asked instead of TRYING to be funny with "clever", sarcastic comments for once... I can't explain. I have no idea. Sorry to make you dissappointed. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On June 16 2011 02:04 Gnax wrote: I can't explain. I have no idea. Sorry to make you dissappointed. That's because it won't be a problem. There is very little benefit to having a high MMR (the GM league and specialized tournaments with prize pools are really the only ones and being invite only they can do basic background checks for hacks and abuse). The real benefit of having a viewable MMR is that as players we can actually see where we stand and if we are progressing. I have the same issue right now, I have (I believe) been improving and am now playing against a lot of 1000+ Masters players (while being around 1000 Diamond myself). On the other hand I rarely ever meet the 700-900 Masters, I seem to have skipped over them which to me means there is actually a weird overlap in MMRs from high Diamond to mid Masters (which makes perfect sense mind you given the slower promotion system). There is really no downside to seeing the MMR and pasting in a seemingly arbitrary set of ranks and leagues over it is just plain stupid because it has the problems of any rating system (bullying, people bragging stupidly and stroking their ego) without actually having the advantages (being able to track personal progress, organize tournaments or events by rating, even check matchups and progress in matchups if they set up the interface properly). | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On June 16 2011 02:16 Sixes wrote: That's because it won't be a problem. There is very little benefit to having a high MMR (the GM league and specialized tournaments with prize pools are really the only ones and being invite only they can do basic background checks for hacks and abuse). The real benefit of having a viewable MMR is that as players we can actually see where we stand and if we are progressing. I have the same issue right now, I have (I believe) been improving and am now playing against a lot of 1000+ Masters players (while being around 1000 Diamond myself). On the other hand I rarely ever meet the 700-900 Masters, I seem to have skipped over them which to me means there is actually a weird overlap in MMRs from high Diamond to mid Masters (which makes perfect sense mind you given the slower promotion system). There is really no downside to seeing the MMR and pasting in a seemingly arbitrary set of ranks and leagues over it is just plain stupid because it has the problems of any rating system (bullying, people bragging stupidly and stroking their ego) without actually having the advantages (being able to track personal progress, organize tournaments or events by rating, even check matchups and progress in matchups if they set up the interface properly). Very well said, and very true as well. I just don't understand people who don't want to see this information. It literally makes no sense to me, and to hear the community be like "wah wah exploits" "wah wah who cares" makes me sad. I remember when the only focus of the SC community was to become the best, to become better in every way. Now it just seems like the majority of players want to stroke their own inflated e-Peens using data that means absolutely nothing. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 16 2011 00:33 Chronald wrote: Too bad that takes like 20 minutes, and still isn't reliable because Blizzard's rankings mean nothing since you can't see their raw MMR. maybe use up all your bonus pool with all this time you spend whining then | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany674 Posts
On June 15 2011 11:26 Teim wrote: Displaying MMR in the future may be more likely than you think. lets hope you speak the truth^^ | ||
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Kezzer
United States1268 Posts
On June 16 2011 02:04 Gnax wrote: I can't explain. I have no idea. Sorry to make you dissappointed. what a pathetic argument. that's like saying "remove all apples from supermarkets, terrorists will be able to bypass our defenses and kill people if we leave apples there" "but how will apples affect terrorists?" "hell if i know, if i did know we could prevent it, but since we cant we have to remove them" ... 2 things change mmr winning and losing neither of those are exploitable any further than normally winning or losing is | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On June 15 2011 10:50 Chronald wrote: So I've been playing some other competitive games, and also been reading about ranking in general, and I've been wondering why Blizzard can't just display our true MMR in the ladder/profile section. Because then people like me would exploit the ladder system by reverse engineering how everything affects my mmr. It's for security reasons. | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On June 25 2011 05:08 windsupernova wrote: Wait, doesn´t your true MMR(in Masters at least) is Points minus Bonus Pool Points minus Bonus Pool is just your real ladder rating. Theoretically if you everyone had a very very high game count and everyone was in the same league rating would be indicative of MMR. Note I say indicative because if you are on a win or loss streak this is no longer the case (as MMR fluctuates much faster than rating and in fact increases exponentially with consecutive wins/losses as opposed to rating which is relatively linear). Now you have issues where some players aren't stabilized. This is my case with 150+ games won simply because I am still learning (I still win 70% of my games and get matched against higher and higher players). Now I am ~1300 Diamond, playing against sometimes 1300-1400 masters, sometimes 1200 Diamond, sometimes 1500 Diamond and I have no idea what my MMR would be. This has several causes mind you. One is that the leagues have a big MMR overlap (getting promoted can take a very long time and the mechanics of it are not fully understood). Another is that with MMR fluctuating a player who varies between 1300 and 1500 (arbitrary scale) can end up against someone who varies between 1100 and 1300 if the one is on a losing streak and the other is on a winning streak. As a consequence even with MMR, checking recent match history or average MMR over the last week would make sense (I remember the AoE 3 ladder the important stat was the usual average ELO, not the spike value). On top of that when the leagues are first forming (beginning of season) the spots in masters league are open. If someone like me just doesn't play for a month at the beginning of the season the spots are taken and generally much harder to get. All this to say that Masters vs diamond (and actually GM too if a player wasn't as active or successful at the start of season) makes very little sense. Having a global ladder with MMR will give a better idea of progression (if for example I was at the 3.45% mark and then practiced and got to the top 2.89% that would be significant progression). The comparison could be done either on current MMR or average MMR over the last week. Obviously people could spike high and stop playing to stay high but there would be no benefit to them and odds are there wouldn't be enough people doing that to have any real effect on the ladder. MMR could also start to degrade over time (accounting for a lack of practice, it would actually be nice to get a couple easy games after not playing for a month). | ||
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Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On June 25 2011 05:15 CecilSunkure wrote: Because then people like me would exploit the ladder system by reverse engineering how everything affects my mmr. It's for security reasons. And even supposing you found a foolproof way of getting a high MMR how would this benefit you in any way? You could pay a pro to play on your account to get a high MMR right now ... and then you would lose a lot with no benefit whatsoever. The only monetary benefit is if you can get high enough to enter Blizzard's tournament based on ladder ranking but even then you need to be able to beat the players in the tournament to actually gain anything (and again, you could just pay off a pro to do that now). The fact is the only way to increase MMR is to win and at some point, unless you are hacking the game itself, knowing how the MMR system works doesn't allow you to get very high without beating a bunch of good players. | ||
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