EPTIs A Real MMR Too Much to Ask For? - Page 6
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shaman6ix
Greece212 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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Lobo2me
Norway1213 Posts
On June 15 2011 21:10 shaman6ix wrote: what does ELO mean? The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in two-player games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor. | ||
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Latty
Germany567 Posts
i am top 3 platinum playing top 20 diamond people for ever now and winning a bunch losing some always says "even teams" and im not getting promoted at all i do not understand this system ^^ | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 15 2011 21:14 Latty wrote: Top-X in a league means little. You most likely are an active player with bonus pool (nearly) spent while most other players have a large unused bonus pool. Frequently using up bonus pool often gets you a high division ranking as most players are not that active.yeah i dont get it either @ op i am top 3 platinum playing top 20 diamond people for ever now and winning a bunch losing some always says "even teams" and im not getting promoted at all i do not understand this system ^^ The "top-20" diamond players could be from the bottom diamond tier. That means there are not much better than top-platinum players. If you lose to other platinum players still too often, you are not yet eligible for promotion. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
Anyway, sure that MMR would be really great if it was shown but like many people have told here it could easily be abused. Play the game on ladder for fun and mechanics, if you want to play serious go play custom games or tournament play. Sorry for my post being irrelevant! | ||
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edzwoo
United States469 Posts
Blizzard's point system may not be an accurate measure of skill, but the purpose is to keep the masses playing to climb up in their division. People that browse this forum may be smart enough to realize this, but in reality the masses will think their points are a correlation of their skill, and they will continue to play if they can bring it up. If our true MMR was displayed, the casual person is going to be disappointed once they hit their ceiling. You can already see this problem with tons of people complaining that they are not getting promoted to the higher leagues. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:21 drop271 wrote: Have a look into this online more. I believe (or recall from reading about this) that the chess community had the same issues with people deliberately choosing their opponents in order to abuse the ELO rankings and artificially increase theirs. I believe this is exactly what Blizzard have cited as a reason for keeping them hidden Not really true. As an avid chess player for a couple of decades, I have never read about this being a particular issue. One issue they have had in recent years is that ELO is universal but you can play within a closed system. e.g. Chinese players only play in China against Chinese players, so their rating is effectively just an internal rating, even though it's a universal system. This could lead to a 2600 Chinese GM losing to a regular 2600 GM quite handily because his points have been internally inflated. It's actually much harder on battlenet to get a higher rating than you deserve (other than flagrant cheating). ELO systems work the most accurately when you are playing people around your standard - and this is exactly what battlenet enforces. However, when you look cross server, you can see a similar pattern to my chess example above; in fact fortuitously I even chose the same country: The global top GM list is dominated by China at the top, but they aren't so much better than everyone else. A classic case of different closed systems being compared on the same ranking list. TLDR; battlenet's method of matching you up against equal skilled opponents is actually beneficial for ELO accuracy and is very hard to manipulate *upwards*. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
While it is hard to manipulate upwards, it still makes you (or many guys) to have concerns about the Elo (or MMR) value. This will likely result in less ladder play, not more ladder play. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
I don't want to have the vast majority of players to be between D- and C, but I also don't want to have a system where I am arbitrarily ranked against 100 other random players. Showing our MMr is good, but this is flawed in itself. The fact everyone starts off with an MMR. Some people haven't played enough to get that fixed properly. This is useless information to see in my opinion of the casual guy who ladders once a month. Also your MMr doesn't really move much after a certain point, so it becomes redundant imo. Unless I get a huge burst of skill, most of my play time will be on the same MMR, and seeing if a person is higher/lower with our actual MMR is no more relevant than seeing favored/slightly favored. I'd like to see players who are inactive stagnate, rather than build up bonus points. To me that is the worst part, the inflation that occurs. I'd rather have players drop out of Masters every time they go inactive for a few weeks. You aren't in the top 2% of active players if you aren't playing. So when I player a guy who is in Masters, but only has five games played is not inaccurately represented in the top 2%. I dunno, small rant on my part about the points you brought up. The ladder system is flawed, but many are. | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
However, for the people who DO care, or who DO want to know their true skill level, an Elo or MMR is essential. Tennis uses these same scales when ranking their players, it is the standard for the majority of 1v1, and sometimes even team competitions. Frankly, I understand why people don't want Blizzard to show their MMR to everyone, but what if it was private? Like only you could see/share your own MMR/Elo with people if you wanted to. Is there ANY potential harm in that? Also, for the portrait farmers and supposed 'exploiters' of MMR, this again only affects players who either don't care about competition, or are going to find a way to exploit the game either way. Even this hidden system is exploited, that is why its even a topic in the first place. I doubt it would seriously affect the amount, or severity of the exploitation going on. | ||
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DestroManiak
257 Posts
On June 15 2011 11:00 Gnax wrote: They don't show it because they don't want hackers to figure out exactly how their system works. what happens if hackers find out? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 15 2011 23:09 [F_]aths wrote: Again, it is Elo, not ELO. While it is hard to manipulate upwards, it still makes you (or many guys) to have concerns about the Elo (or MMR) value. This will likely result in less ladder play, not more ladder play. "It makes you to have" is nonsense. Must we be picky? | ||
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
Hackers gonna hack. What do you think? | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 15 2011 23:31 Chronald wrote: Yes. You would be asked about your MMR by other players. You would be laught at if the value is smaller than expected or accused of lying if it is higher than expected.Frankly, I understand why people don't want Blizzard to show their MMR to everyone, but what if it was private? Like only you could see/share your own MMR/Elo with people if you wanted to. Is there ANY potential harm in that? Many guys would see an ever-increasing MMR as progress. If they had a winning streak, they could fear that their MMR declines if they play more. They could stop playing ladder to practice with custom games. What does MMR prove? "I have 1250 which is higher than your 1200 rating, so I am better and we don't even need to play to confirm." Wrong! Skill is intransitive, it is possible that player A beats player B on a regular basis while B wins more matches versus player C who in turn has a good chance to beat player A. In any case, the current exact MMR value should never concern anyone. The best way to reach it, is to hide it from you. Ladder is practice and therefore needs no serious skill ranking. (However the top leagues do provide a more or less accurate ranking.) | ||
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DestroManiak
257 Posts
elaborate | ||
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
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Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
I'm not a hacker bro. If me, let alone blizzard, knew how their system can be abused, they wouldn't have to worry about it. | ||
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