I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster? (inexperienced as in, making rookie mistakes, not his actual experience) I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously? **THIS DOES NOT MEAN he should stop fooling around and start casting seriously. the Lax casting is a part of his charm, for the billionth time i've mentioned. Needing more professionalism DOESNT mean they need to stop being hilarious.
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
If he becomes more professional i will be disappointed.. Hes doing perfect imho. I don't want a Serious cast. I want to relax and have fun and hear some stupid shit from time to time. Which is exactly what we get with the current Tastosis
I agree with you entirely. Huge artosis/Day9/IdrA fan when it comes to casting. I've only seen Mr. Bitter once, but i thought he was really good too.
I don't mind a little goofing around sometimes... Day9 and Artosis do this all the time, but when something is happening in the game he gets down to business and do their job. I too get pretty dissapointed when Artosis is saying something that is interesting or important and he gets cut off by tasteless who then adds nothing to the cast. I thought I was the only one who saw this.
Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
I really can't agree with any of what you said. But saying that, this was a really good and cool post. If i may even go as far as to say- This post was the sex. Ahem, good and cool sex.
I watch gsl half to see the players and half listen to tastosis make dumb jokes and talk about random stuff. I hope they never change. People complain about Gretorp cause hes boring, tastosis is never boring.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
I agree a bit with 1, and disagree with 2 and 3. I feel sometimes he could go into a bit more in depth with his thoughts and also articulate more rather than just say someone is good, but it really isn't a big complaint from me whatsoever. If nothing changes I wouldn't even be a little bit disappointed, but I just feel that it would be an improvement he could do that I feel others would appreciate (such as the OP).
As for the sex comment, I didn't hear that, but that's a whole different debate about which words you can and can't use which I won't give my opinion on here.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster?
I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
First, he's been commentating for years. You state that you don't know what you're talking about and yet you didn't attempt to find out?
Second, use the search function and read the 200 threads about "professionalism"
Lastly, if "sex" is a bad thing for popularity, I have been receiving the wrong message from cheerleaders all my life and must be a pervert. Either that or it's not as taboo as you think.
I never really noticed #1, so it doesn't bother me. #2 just kind of happens when you're doing that sort of thing, and they both do it. It's not just a Tasteless problem. #3 I just flat out disagree with. I think walking on eggshells would hurt more than help.
On June 12 2011 15:12 Mordiford wrote: Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
It's like saying the person who plays the most starcraft 2 is the best player at starcraft 2 which is possible, but isn't necessarily the case. Nick has a lot of experience in that he's been doing it a lot of time, however, his re-usage of words and rampant cutting off of Dan is what the OP speaks of when he mentions inexperience.
On June 12 2011 15:14 Rykros wrote: No body can be perfect. I think hes doing a pretty good job . I like them both . Just one thing. Sometimes they call for a game to be over too early and sometimes even the winner is the opposite of what they predicted some time ago. Example Nestea vs Scfou game 5 last gsl .. Tasteless called it b4 that sc has almost taken it but in the end nestea won ...., he was counting him out..
Yeah, I've noticed this as a whole in general with Tastosis, but I feel Artosis may be a bit more guilty of this, where he builds a player up like crazy before their match and then they hilariously lose like 20 minutes later. It's not really annoying or anything like that, it's just kind of funny.
Hopefully the scene doesn't become some type of uptight, boring, super serious thing with a really crappy atmosphere and people taking it too far. The scene is great how it is, this is a game after all, and gamers need a good sense of humor along with a good posture so that esports can grow outside of just a certain type of gamer all the time.
I would disagree that Tasteless is inexperienced as a caster. It's the exact opposite. Everything that you mentioned stems from Tasteless being highly experienced as a caster. Brand new casters usually go highly professional, technical terms, etc. We've known Tasteless for almost eternity, and the style that he developed is the style that we've all grown to love and enjoy. I would not want Tasteless to be anything else.
oh god, tastosis- please dont change. you are the perfect casting archon as is. i would never watch gsl again pending a "more professional" shift. one of the things that makes it such a great experience watching them is how casual they are.
tasteless himself is also far from inexperienced. he is the caster, not the commentator. he is a play-by-play guy but can actually analyze the game quite well if he needs to- considering he has practically lived all things starcraft for the past 5-6 years. Compare him to someone like Husky (albeit husky has gotten substantially better in the past year or so), and he is the prophet of starcraft.
On June 12 2011 15:12 Mordiford wrote: Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
It's like saying the person who plays the most starcraft 2 is the best player at starcraft 2 which is possible, but isn't necessarily the case. Nick has a lot of experience in that he's been doing it a lot of time, however, his re-usage of words and rampant cutting off of Dan is what the OP speaks of when he mentions inexperience.
No, it's like saying the person who plays more Starcraft 2 has more experience playing Starcraft 2.
If the OP was implying that Tasteless comes off as a "rookie" despite actually being more experienced than his co-caster, that's one thing, but in regards to that, like I said, "I don't see that at all".
with #3 i find the "relaxed mindset" very pleasant to listen to. the few times i heard Husky (for example) in the TSL, his style kept me on edge because he would never take a break between sentences and it seemed so clogged whereas Tastless is much more relaxing to listen to. Not only that but i feel like he gets appropriately excited and helps build tension at the right moments anyway.
#2 Used to be a lot worse then he used to be, but he's gotten a LOT better at that so i dont mind for now.
only noticed #1 once or twice (and when you think about the number of games they have to cast a lil' stagnation is probably inevitable)
I didnt think the whole sex thing was a big deal (were you refering to the "so and so... is the flat-tire of sex"?) i remember that and maybe one other time that sex was mentioned.
All in all i there IS room for improvement, but considering the rate at which they've gotten better at is pretty amazing, i'm not too concerned. The only constructive criticism i can think of is paying more attention to what the observer is showing, sometimes he notices an upgrade or a small trick one of the players is doing that tastosis misses.
Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
Tasteless is by FAR one of the best and most experienced casters in the scene. Him and Artosis flow so well together it's unreal.
If someone is offended by the word "sex" they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. Sex is everywhere. I watched the GSL where he used the word as well, he didn't even use it in a bad way in any shape or form.
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
Ugh... I don't want to get into this sex thing, since that's been talked to death in the Casting Language Standards and similar threads but it just comes down to individual views of what's appropriate. I got a laugh out of that comment so I have no problem with it, there's plenty of content that could otherwise be objectionable that inherent to the game, filtering otherwise age appropriate content similar to that seems unnecessary to me.
On June 12 2011 15:18 Chairman Ray wrote: Brand new casters usually go highly professional, technical terms, etc.
I have 3 amazing examples that disagree with this.
MrBitter, Sheth, and CatZ.... All 3 are high level zerg players, but they are also new to casting and do a very good job because they are students of the game. They understand it and when they speak it's clear that the words that come out of their mouth are based in sound reasoning and logic as it pertains to sc2.
I think where Tasteless loses it for me is when he makes it seem like he's got no clue about the game. Example would be calling a fight for a P or T when the other person is CLEARLY going to win it. It happens way too much for someone who supposedly plays P at masters level.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
tasteless has been commentating for a very long time now (7-8 yrs?) yet he stutters over himself a whole lot(probably average about 2-5 ball drops per recording), uses a lot of vocal pauses (uh, um) and kind of repeats artosis too much.
personally I thought he was better as a BW commentator for gom, but it has to do with him being the camera man and not being able to focus on the game enough
Tasteless is awesome. Him and Artosis are always fun and entertaining and i always like their analysis. Hes been casting since like 2004/2005 so he has experience. I don't really get this thread. Seems like a troll. Judging by your name and post count..
On June 12 2011 15:25 Xova wrote: Tasteless is by FAR one of the best and most experienced casters in the scene. Him and Artosis flow so well together it's unreal.
If someone is offended by the word "sex" they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. Sex is everywhere. I watched the GSL where he used the word as well, he didn't even use it in a bad way in any shape or form.
Here we go again, why the exclusion? Do we want kids' moms to cut them off from anything SC2 related because a pair of casters talked about sex? Is this the kind of impression we want to be giving to the public?
disagree with everything that was listed. i've never noticed him overusing words like cool or good. one criticism is that he tends to repeat what artosis has said.
I don't think people outrightly dismiss e-sports in society because of language or the thematic content of the casting. Also, I wouldn't call it "unaccepted", more like "unknown" or "niche". I heard the same comments when MMA started growing while I was a fan of it. Before it was big, there were plenty of people saying that certain controvertial comments from fighters were "hurting the sport" and that someone being caught cheating "won't let MMA grow into a mainstream sport", when in reality, the sport exploded in popularity from a reality show that has featured heated fist fights, drunken stupors and athletes pissing into other athletes' food. The reality is, the audience of people that raise their nose to a perceived lack of sophistication in a sport's culture, is extremely minor and is relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things. That is my extremely long-winded, vitriolic way of saying that there's no way in hell that Tasteless talking about sex is hurting the future growth of e-sports, come on, don't be ridiculous.
I do agree with your point regarding the eloquence of his casting, however. He's shown himself to be extremely articulate and intelligent, yet sometimes he resorts to very simplistic descriptors of certain events in a cast. I do feel he'd add something to his casting if he were able to bring to bear a more diverse portion of his vocabulary when casting. However, do you know how damn hard it is to talk and think as fast as casters have to while following a game? It can be nearly impossible to completely articulate every thought you have because the games are so damn fast.
On June 12 2011 15:18 Chairman Ray wrote: Brand new casters usually go highly professional, technical terms, etc.
I have 3 amazing examples that disagree with this.
MrBitter, Sheth, and CatZ.... All 3 are high level zerg players, but they are also new to casting and do a very good job because they are students of the game. They understand it and when they speak it's clear that the words that come out of their mouth are based in sound reasoning and logic as it pertains to sc2.
I think where Tasteless loses it for me is when he makes it seem like he's got no clue about the game. Example would be calling a fight for a P or T when the other person is CLEARLY going to win it. It happens way too much for someone who supposedly plays P at masters level.
Eh, I haven't really noticed this more for Tasteless than for any other caster. I've noticed inControl and Gretorp mis-call/mis-favor a number of fights, I can remember Artosis, DJWheat and plenty of other casters doing it too. I think it's just something that happens from time to time because a player will suddenly fudge something or the other player will play the situation out perfectly, or it's simply just a mis-call.
Tasteless has always seemed to know a fair bit about the game.
Yeah Tasteless is totally inexperienced in casting. I can't believe for a second he hasn't improved since 2005. /end sarcasm. Ever talk to one of your friends and you cut them off for whatever reason sometimes? I'm not even gonna get into the sex part since you expect a very conservative family oriented cast and that's a matter of taste but he's known as tasteless. Go figure.
I'm sorry but Tasteless can do no wrong. If you don't like him it's not because he's doing anything horribly wrong but because you simply don't like him. I suggest watching someone else then.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
On June 12 2011 15:25 Xova wrote: Tasteless is by FAR one of the best and most experienced casters in the scene. Him and Artosis flow so well together it's unreal.
If someone is offended by the word "sex" they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. Sex is everywhere. I watched the GSL where he used the word as well, he didn't even use it in a bad way in any shape or form.
Here we go again, why the exclusion? Do we want kids' moms to cut them off from anything SC2 related because a pair of casters talked about sex? Is this the kind of impression we want to be giving to the public?
See, this thing again. I feel the content presented during the cast is age appropriate to the content of the game. This argument is essentially like saying, "Why not make all those PG-13 movies PG by removing the sexual content so kids can watch it" regardless of whether the content would be age appropriate even with the adjustments. In the case of Starcraft 2, I don't think it's a worthwhile argument to use, the content is still going to be somewhat age restrictive and within that age expectation the word "sex" is pretty appropriate.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Then don't watch.
The same should go for people who are offended by Tasteless saying "sex", I'm assuming.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Then don't watch.
The same should go for people who are offended by Tasteless saying "sex", I'm assuming.
I wouldn't notice. Does the tail have to wag the dog here?
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
how am i trolling? i'm presenting a scenario of what you think what should be done if someone is offended by the use of the word "nuke" just like how you think people are offended by the word "sex"
Also, in general, Tastosis kill hype by either just going silent during epic battles, failing to compliment epic battles with epic commentary, and once again, GG'ing before a player does so.
A commentator/caster's job is to make viewing more interesting, as well as give some insight to the game going on. GG'ing before a player does not make any sense because it's like they're saying "ok, i'm too lazy to try to think of a way to still make this game seem epic, I'll just tell viewers I think the game will end soon and I don't think there will be a comeback". I understand when it's completely GG, but when they do it after a battle when it's in the lategame and both people still have big economies or other situations where the advantage isn't very defined, it's very disappointing.
Tl;dr Premature GG is the opposite of the purpose of a commentator/caster, please stop doing it Tastosis.
On June 12 2011 15:25 Xova wrote: Tasteless is by FAR one of the best and most experienced casters in the scene. Him and Artosis flow so well together it's unreal.
If someone is offended by the word "sex" they probably shouldn't be on the internet at all. Sex is everywhere. I watched the GSL where he used the word as well, he didn't even use it in a bad way in any shape or form.
Here we go again, why the exclusion? Do we want kids' moms to cut them off from anything SC2 related because a pair of casters talked about sex? Is this the kind of impression we want to be giving to the public?
See, this thing again. I feel the content presented during the cast is age appropriate to the content of the game. This argument is essentially like saying, "Why not make all those PG-13 movies PG by removing the sexual content so kids can watch it" regardless of whether the content would be age appropriate even with the adjustments. In the case of Starcraft 2, I don't think it's a worthwhile argument to use, the content is still going to be somewhat age restrictive and within that age expectation the word "sex" is pretty appropriate.
I understand what you're saying, and you're absolutely right when talking about movies. PG-13 are geared towards a specific audience, as are PG movies. The thing with SC2 is that we don't have a humongous audience yet, so I don't think that using age-restrictive language would help our cause. It may feel like "selling out" a bit if casters tone down their language, but I think it would be worth it if it gains more viewers. That being said, I don't know how many more viewers being more appropriate would gain, but I just don't like the idea of turning certain age groups away when they could be a huge part of the SC2 community. Again, the question of whether it's worth it or not is up in the air, so I understand your position on this.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
There is nothing wrong with how Tasteless casts. He's funny, experienced, knowledgable, and very entertaining. Not sure why this was even posted to be quite honest since he's part of the best casting duo in SC2.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
how am i trolling? i'm presenting a scenario of what you think what should be done if someone is offended by the use of the word "nuke" just like how you think people are offended by the word "sex"
You're trolling because you're using someone else's argument in a completely different situation. This isn't a slippery slope here, it's just about sex. Your hyperbole only works in the cases of people who don't care about taking responsibility for SC2. Tasteless is a global representative of e-sports, and more importantly he EMBRACES this role. Destiny is perfectly fine using that argument because he doesn't want to be a representative. He just wants to feed his family.
But Tastless why can't you be a perfect caster (in tastless mocking voice). I can only imagine him saying that if he looked at this thread.
I love listening to Tastosis and Tastless does a good job and is funny as hell to boot. I don't mind some of his "slip ups" and even when he asks a dumb question to Artosis, it is because he is trying to make a discussion in downtime.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
ehhh, you guys seem to forget that Tasteless isnt some random youtube commentator who gets to do whatever he wants. He does have a boss and there are producers who talk to him while he's on air over his headset. They set the rules and standards that he has to abide by. Sure he can do things to change it up, but at the end of the day, he does have a team around him to give him this type of feedback. If GOM thinks it's fine, then he's going to do it. The GSL takes place at 4AM in the morning. Who's watching it but adults who can stay up or buy the VODs. IMO organizations like MLG and GOM are really tame and do a good job with the casting standards that they have in place.
Edit: Also guys, this is why we have other casters. Each one will satisfy your interests in someway. I dont listen to only one caster and on some days, I'm in the mood for certain casters.
Of course people on TL are going to shut you down when you post something like this, because TL represents a very nerdy niche market which is completely tasteless' target market, not the future of e-sports. Constructive criticism like this is something that all casters should pay attention to if esports ever wants to grow beyond such a market.
Except this isn't all that constructive, its a very small niche of people trying to force casters to perform how they see fit. It doesn't matter of 99% of everyone else likes them just they way they are, that 1% wants change.
Just consider Tasteless a priceless piece of artwork, just because you may find something offensive or simply not like it doesn't mean you should EVER change it, keep your hands off thanks.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT.
I think some of this only speaks to how comfortable they really are casting. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not one to make that call, but I do enjoy Tasteosis.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
But that's a lot of unknowns to make any kind of sacrifice for, it goes back to the earlier example...
Alright, sure they could cut the language out of X movie and possible attract Y audience, but would why remove some element of content that is adding something, whether it be humor, emotion etc.
It's a different category, but it's a botched standard that varies from region to region and you genuinely can't please everyone so you stick with the level of age restrictiveness you have an assume that it will be exposed to people for whom it's age appropriate or by parents who are fine with the content. Anything else and you're making an argument for change with no real reasoning.
I laughed at the "flat tire of sex" joke. If a parent is fine with exposing their child to violence but not the word "sex" then those are the standards that they set, and they are standards I don't support. You'll find that these standards vary greatly from region to region and if you want to accommodate one's aversion then you have to start accommodating more of them until you get to an awkward situation, so you make a reasonable cut off and that's where we're at, the content is age appropriate to the content of the game.
On June 12 2011 15:47 statikg wrote: Of course people on TL are going to shut you down when you post something like this, because TL represents a very nerdy niche market which is completely tasteless' target market, not the future of e-sports. Constructive criticism like this is something that all casters should pay attention to if esports ever wants to grow beyond such a market.
This. It's not about pleasing the minority "1%" of people, it's about making the thousands of people who love SC2 and making that tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.
He used to do the "uhhh" "ummmm" thing way too much. I think he listened to the criticism and adapted, he's doing nicely right now and talking about sex isn't bad: think about the demographic that's watching him, it's probably 20-30 year old gamer males.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: 3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
Get off your high horse, Tastosis do a damn fine job, their lax casting is what makes them so great.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT.
Whose standards though? If we go by the youngest audience we want for the game and then appropriate it to the standards of Europe or North America, or Korea or whatever, we'll get a different set of what's acceptable and unacceptable and furthermore based on demographics. So we set a fair standard of what's appropriate based on the baseline content of the game. The content of the GSL casts are perfectly acceptable for that.
Disagree with everything completely, but I have something of my own to add:
Stop calling Nada the "renaissance nerd". What does that even mean? He already has nicknames and they've been with him for quite a few years, the Genius Terran or Tornado Terran.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT.
Whose standards though? If we go by the youngest audience we want for the game and then appropriate it to the standards of Europe or North America, or Korea or whatever, we'll get a different set of what's acceptable and unacceptable and furthermore based on demographics. So we set a fair standard of what's appropriate based on the baseline content of the game. The content of the GSL casts are perfectly acceptable for that.
I agree with what you're saying about how it turns into an awkward situation because you can't meet EVERYONE's standards. But i disagree with you saying that "sex" is appropriated based on the baseline content of the game. SC2 has no mention of sex, and that alone should be enough to stop talking about sex. If there is no sex in sc2, how is appropriate based on the baseline content of the game like you claim?
Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe tastosis have mentioned before that tasteless does the commentating in a way that new starcraft players can easily understand while artosis does the more intricate explanation.
and starcraft 2 is rated teen in america. I don't know what teen in america would be offended by the word sex.
On June 12 2011 15:12 Mordiford wrote: Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
It's like saying the person who plays the most starcraft 2 is the best player at starcraft 2 which is possible, but isn't necessarily the case. Nick has a lot of experience in that he's been doing it a lot of time, however, his re-usage of words and rampant cutting off of Dan is what the OP speaks of when he mentions inexperience.
His rampant cutting off of Dan? Sorry I like Artosis' quick lessons too but a lot of the times it's necessary for Tasteless to cut him off when he's doing one of these. Maybe there's a drop happening? Maybe a small engagement? Something really unexpected?Something game changing? These are the only times I have ever seen Tasteless cut off Artosis...
On June 12 2011 15:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: He prematurely GGs too much.
Also, in general, Tastosis kill hype by either just going silent during epic battles, failing to compliment epic battles with epic commentary, and once again, GG'ing before a player does so.
A commentator/caster's job is to make viewing more interesting, as well as give some insight to the game going on. GG'ing before a player does not make any sense because it's like they're saying "ok, i'm too lazy to try to think of a way to still make this game seem epic, I'll just tell viewers I think the game will end soon and I don't think there will be a comeback". I understand when it's completely GG, but when they do it after a battle when it's in the lategame and both people still have big economies or other situations where the advantage isn't very defined, it's very disappointing.
Tl;dr Premature GG is the opposite of the purpose of a commentator/caster, please stop doing it Tastosis.
The purpose of a caster is to entertain and inform. If the game is over, they have the right to acknowledge that. While playing the game you don't have the sight of your opponent so you may assume that they are not as far ahead of you as they actually are. Sometimes the game is just over, nothing else to say about it. VERY rarely is this ever the case, and it is totally acceptable for a caster to say this.
Have you ever heard a Football/Basketball caster talk as if a game is still in contest when a team is down enough points that it is impossible to come back? No, because they call it how it is
The back of the Starcraft 2 box says Rated T or TEEN, Blood and Gore, LANGUAGE, Suggestive Themes, Use of Alcohol and Tobacco, and Violence. If parents don't want their kids to be subject to language and the other content in SC2 or in the streams then don't get your kids the game.
We should cater to the fans who are OK with these things, I don't think we should cater to the younger crowd or anyone who shouldn't be subject to hearing "sex" no matter what context it's being used in. If Starcraft gets restricted to not being as big as it could be because we don't cater to these people I'm fine with that, because I like the game and community the way it is and the casters the way they are.
On June 12 2011 15:12 Mordiford wrote: Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
It's like saying the person who plays the most starcraft 2 is the best player at starcraft 2 which is possible, but isn't necessarily the case. Nick has a lot of experience in that he's been doing it a lot of time, however, his re-usage of words and rampant cutting off of Dan is what the OP speaks of when he mentions inexperience.
His rampant cutting off of Dan? Sorry I like Artosis' quick lessons too but a lot of the times it's necessary for Tasteless to cut him off when he's doing one of these. Maybe there's a drop happening? Maybe a small engagement? Something really unexpected?Something game changing? These are the only times I have ever seen Tasteless cut off Artosis...
like i said in my post, if something is happening on the map, he's more than welcome to cut off. In fact, it would be bad if he didn't.
(btw tasteless has also cut artosis off numerous times when there ISNT anything gamechanging. If you don't think so, you clearly haven't watched alot of their videos. sometimes, it's almost like he NEEDS to predict what's going to happen in the game, and he just HAS to do it before artosis gets to.)
On June 12 2011 15:12 Mordiford wrote: Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Tasteless is more experienced as a caster than Artosis, so I don't really get the, "slightly inexperienced as a caster" bit. I don't see that at all.
It's like saying the person who plays the most starcraft 2 is the best player at starcraft 2 which is possible, but isn't necessarily the case. Nick has a lot of experience in that he's been doing it a lot of time, however, his re-usage of words and rampant cutting off of Dan is what the OP speaks of when he mentions inexperience.
His rampant cutting off of Dan? Sorry I like Artosis' quick lessons too but a lot of the times it's necessary for Tasteless to cut him off when he's doing one of these. Maybe there's a drop happening? Maybe a small engagement? Something really unexpected?Something game changing? These are the only times I have ever seen Tasteless cut off Artosis...
I totally agree. Tasteless is in control of the camera, remember that people. He sees alot, and probably assumes (which he should) that what he is looking at is more important (which it is) than what Dan is saying/looking at
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
Gonna have to agree with this, I mean lets be honest its not like they have to deal with the FCC or something, this is being streamed over the internet. I don't know if you sit down with a younger kid and say "lets watch the GSL with Tastosis". Tasteless makes the GSL for me and I'm pretty sure for many others.
[QUOTE]On June 12 2011 15:56 Mordiford wrote: [QUOTE]On June 12 2011 15:48 pc_room_freak wrote: [QUOTE]On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT. [/QUOTE]
Please, Society does not coincide with E-sports at all. This is not applicable
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster?
I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
I feel the reason Tasteless uses such vague wording is to allow Artosis to follow-up with a broad spectrum of options to praise a player from what is going on in the game. Yeah he can get repetitive, but that's the way they cast (and it works well).
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
Tasteless is considered the commentator of the two. Artosis is considered the Analytical caster. If someone is happening within the game e.g. an engagement between two armies or some sort of good play then of course Tasteless would have to cut him off because he has to _COMMENTATE_ it.
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
I'd seriously like to see you try and fill the dead air between games. Although I agree with you on some terms, I don't think him mentioning the word sex on an English based stream out of a Korean tournament is going to make ANY difference in the growth of E-Sports.
I'm not trying to fan boy up and there is always room for improvement, but the points that you're making seem to be less of general improvements and more just stuff you would like to see. You've missed the basic elements in why they work well together. You generalized Artosis as just a commentator and took it into your own hands as what you would deem suitable to be said on air. I'm not saying you are -- but you come across as fairly ignorant and arrogant all at once.
We need more homolust. Get closer to Artosis, but don't get too close. Just close enough to create tension, but then back off. Keep us on the edge of the seat, wondering if that is THE moment when something will happen.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Don't get me wrong, i too am a tastosis fan, i think they are probably the only casters that come close to the OSL casters from bw (in terms of commentating and entertainment). Especially artosis, i think he is by FAR the best commentator from the GSL (personal preference obviously). him and tasteless make a great combo, and I know that those two are and will be the best english speaking commentating the sport has to offer.
But that doesn't deny the fact that changes need to be made. Like I said, this relaxed, casting-on-the-couch style from tastois doesn't bother me AT ALL. I think it's what makes them fun and separates them from the strict style of commentating that korean broodwar casters use.
In fact, mentioning sex during casting did not offend me personally in any way. I found the joke to be funny actually, and i'm not too keen on following rules to the last letter or anything like that. But, that's only valid for certain demographics. If you want the sport to be accepted by a larger audience, there is a level of professionalism that must be met. Or do you actually think NBA, NHL commentators talk how they do on TV because they are all boring people in real life? (i'm not comparing esport to any of these leagues, but just making a point). I'm not suggesting them to become strict and boring. cuz like i said, I :LIKE the way they do casting. BUT THERE IS A STANDARD IN SOCIETY THAT must be met, or it will create nothing but bad images for the sport. I don't care if you or I aren't offended by the sex jokes, cuz ITS NOT ABOUT THAT.
Whose standards though? If we go by the youngest audience we want for the game and then appropriate it to the standards of Europe or North America, or Korea or whatever, we'll get a different set of what's acceptable and unacceptable and furthermore based on demographics. So we set a fair standard of what's appropriate based on the baseline content of the game. The content of the GSL casts are perfectly acceptable for that.
I agree with what you're saying about how it turns into an awkward situation because you can't meet EVERYONE's standards. But i disagree with you saying that "sex" is appropriated based on the baseline content of the game. SC2 has no mention of sex, and that alone should be enough to stop talking about sex. If there is no sex in sc2, how is appropriate based on the baseline content of the game like you claim?
Just because Starcraft 2 has no implicit mention of sex does not have an effect on the actual age expectation for the audience, that's just relevant to what each individual parent finds appropriate. I don't see the point in making an arbitrary selection when we have some basic baselines for age expectation and the content is geared towards that.
If you want to accommodate that audience, there are a number of other people you could accommodate using similar reasoning but you quickly reach a point where the original content that people liked is heavily neutered and not as good anymore. This has been seen numerous times with televisions shows that are neutered to attempt to appeal to a wider audience and fail miserably.
What is the purpose of this post? Do you think tasteless will read this and want to take your advice? It seems like you just want to complain. I would say the vast majority of people that tune into the GSL english stream enjoy tasteless and I really doubt that is going to change.
I guess if you just posted because you want to be herd and vent. Well I hope that urge inside has been satisfied because this post is actually useless.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
I had a lot of complains about tasteless in the GSL debut (namely he didn't knew the game at all) but he's way better now, and way more comfortable with the game. In fact, he's so comfortable now that he starts cutting artosis a LOT, which is becoming annoying, as artosis always has something to say when he talks (what I mean is he never just fill air time with empty sentences), and tasteless often (always) cut him for saying stuff like "he's so good" or other generic fill time phrases. But I have no real complain, tasteless has improved a lot sc2 wise, my above rant is more "the better is the good enemy".
Tasteless and artosis are unique. The last time people wanted professional casting DoaTrap was shown and then people complained about it being too boring and repetitive.
I love tastosis chemistry, its just their happy going attitude paired with artosis' knowledge that brings me into GSL
I haven't been watching GSL as much as I'd like to, but I've always appreciated Tasteless and his casting.
Expecting Tasteless to be more analytical like Artosis is like expecting Ernie to be more like Bert. It would totally ruin their chemistry and their dual casting would have an entirely different feel.
Tasteless keeps the commentary light and brisk, sets up Artosis for analysis and does all the dirty work like plugging sponsors and filling dead air. I would argue that Tasteless is an excellent listener -- he knows how to draw more out of Artosis, when Artosis needs to be 'saved' and when Artosis needs to be cut off.
They are the best casting duo out there. Not only do they both have a very deep understanding of the game and the scene, but their chemistry is the kind that develops only after years of genuine friendship off-screen.
A lot of the reason I tune in is for the banter of Tastosis (or to watch LoneWolf slowly decend into madness). I've always loved how they have that laid-back couple of guys watching the game kind of feel to them. So yeah, I'd rather not see either of them try to censor themselves or worrying about every word they say.
Also, I can't speak for other counties, but in Australia most people will recieve sex-ed at ages 11 - 13. Is there really anyone younger than that watching the broadcast? Well, they probably shouldn't be seeing as Starcraft 2 has a Teen rating.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
That's a stupid comparison, the GSL, particularly the foreign cast is certainly not comparable to spongebob squarepants, it has it's own base-line age expectation. I don't think it's an issue at all, the GSL isn't Manswers, but it certainly isn't Spongebob either, it has it's own level of appropriateness that lies in the middle and it works perfectly fine. I view the level of content of the cast to be perfectly normal for whom I'd expect to watch the GSL.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
Ok so your best argument here is that children that are up at 2am-4am (god knows why the parents allow their kids to stay up those hours) hear one joke and now this is gonna be an ongoing thing? I don't see a reason to get all chicken little over this when there are other factors that need to be considered when you are involved with a pg 13 game.
Plz never change Tasteless you are a sexy devil and are doing everything awesome!
I could not disagree more with the professional thing (maybe the sex bit, I don't even remember it tbh) but if he becomes professional he will become boring and less funny, not a worthy sacrifice for anything.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
Ok so your best argument here is that children that are up at 2am-4am (god knows why the parents allow their kids to stay up those hours) hear one joke and now this is gonna be an ongoing thing? I don't see a reason to get all chicken little over this when there are other factors that need to be considered when you are involved with a pg 13 game.
Yeah this pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. This game contains violence yet you can't allow for some wiggle room for one joke mentioning sex...it just doesn't make sense.
Just want to say point number 3 is possibly the most insulting thing you could say to the guy.
He was pushing professionalism in e-sports casting before you'd even heard the term.
The ultimate irony is that if he had never gotten on that plane so many years ago and built a MASSIVE reputation in Korea based on his professionalism alone there might not even be GSL casts in English.
Tasteless laid the ground work at GOM during SC1 so the transition to SC2 was so seamless.
He's possibly been the most important foreigner on Korean soil as far as progressing e-sports goes.
I don't think you could be any more disrespectful or ungrateful.
On June 12 2011 16:39 Phenny wrote: Plz never change Tasteless you are a sexy devil and are doing everything awesome!
I could not disagree more with the professional thing (maybe the sex bit, I don't even remember it tbh) but if he becomes professional he will become boring and less funny, not a worthy sacrifice for anything.
Never said they had to be professional to the point where they are boring. I like their lax style alot too. But there is a bare minimum standard. Otherwise casters can cast naked and they wouldn't need to fix it, because the community might think acting any more professional will make them "boring". =/
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster?
I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
Oh my god. He talks about people like you. Not in a good way.
.. What the fuck is some 4 post random person doing complaining about TASTELESS?. 90% of the 'inexperienced" or unprofessional stuff you mentioned is his HUMOR. I feel sorry for you if you can't grasp that.
For all of your talk about being 'articulate' it would be nice if you could even punctuate properly.
On June 12 2011 16:39 Phenny wrote: Plz never change Tasteless you are a sexy devil and are doing everything awesome!
I could not disagree more with the professional thing (maybe the sex bit, I don't even remember it tbh) but if he becomes professional he will become boring and less funny, not a worthy sacrifice for anything.
Never said they had to be professional to the point where they are boring. I like their lax style alot too. But there is a bare minimum standard. Otherwise casters can cast naked and they wouldn't need to fix it, because the community might think acting any more professional will make them "boring". =/
This is a horrible slippery slope argument, how haven't they met the bare minimum? I've heard Artosis cuss maybe two or three times on air. Tastless regularly uses the F bomb off air and yet you can't tell because he actually hasn't had a slip up that I know of. They are easily above average on casting standards.
On June 12 2011 16:46 HentaiPrime wrote: so it seems that the general consensus is for tasteless to continue being awesome and accept the occasional hater
Yep and now the op is basically trolling with the last comment.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
This pretty much reminds me about that south park episode with butters having a shuriken stuck in his face and no one cares because cartmen appeared naked on TV. The game shows people(and aliens) killing each other with pretty much every conventional method(and also is rated PG-13) and everyone is so bobbed downed with 1 caster mentioning sex because 8 year old kids might learn bad things watch it.
am i the only one who noticed that he said he was korean so he would know what esports is like over there, and his profile says he is from the states... lol
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
This isn't fucking spongebob squarepants. And in no way should we be "required" to compare the GSL (which airs at fucking 2-4 am for most people) to a kids show. Tasteless can say whatever the fuck they want as long as they keep it 'classy' in general. I don't know what kind of worthless sheltered life you've lived, but saying 'sex' ONCE in a cast and THEN apologizing / joking about it is FINE.
Don't make a terrible thread on TL, especially if you just want to complain about one little thing.
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
GSL is a family show? Your whole family sits down and watches the GSL together??? ... ... ... AWESOME!!!
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
If you say sex in MANSWERS, the public will view this as normal. Kids will watch it, boohoo, who cares, what you going to do about that.
If you say sex in spongebob squarepants, that is a problem. NOT because the kids watching are innocent lamb-childs and are in danger of unfiltered content etc etc, but because in the public's eye, a show that contains that type of demographic SHOULDNT say that word. In the end, it's only bad for the show's image.
Unless you can justify that saying sex in both shows carry the same meaning from the public's point of view.
This isn't fucking spongebob squarepants. And in no way should we be "required" to compare the GSL (which airs at fucking 2-4 am for most people) to a kids show. Tasteless can say whatever the fuck they want as long as they keep it 'classy' in general. I don't know what kind of worthless sheltered life you've lived, but saying 'sex' ONCE in a cast and THEN apologizing / joking about it is FINE.
Don't make a terrible thread on TL, especially if you just want to complain about one little thing.
I agree with this man. Last thing we need is more people crying about kids being exposed to sex while ignoring the fact that this is a violent war game. I would rather have my kids see actual porn than 50 marines stim and run into a line of siege tanks.
I dont mind my kids hearing the word sex a single time during the GSL cast, now what i have a problem with is them seeing a banshee fly in and do no damage - i dont want them to learn these habits when they play starcraft 2. Tastosis is doing an awesome job i love them!
I agree with this man. Last thing we need is more people crying about kids being exposed to sex while ignoring the fact that this is a violent war game. I would rather have my kids see actual porn than 50 marines stim and run into a line of siege tanks.
Exactly. Porn and violence are different things. Some parents view one worse than the other, to varying degrees and conditions.
Being repetitive, maybe. Dont agree but havent thought about it either so maybe he is(or he isnt and that's why I havent thought about it).
In these last days(the week before and after MLG) yeah he has been cutting off Artosis very frequently but he also says sorry each time when it has been really intrusive. So dont agree here either. Other than these two weeks(well one and a half tops) he hasnt really done that to any extent.
Being more professional, NO. He is professional when it counts(the actual casting of what is going on) and otherwise is just a funny and interesting guy to listen to. Dont change it!
and the way he spoke about sex wasnt in any way bad. I think this is more about you and your view on when to talk about it and as such is very subjective and doesnt warrant as an argument for when to use it or not.
On June 12 2011 17:02 Kamikiri wrote: I dont mind my kids hearing the word sex a single time during the GSL cast, now what i have a problem with is them seeing a banshee fly in and do no damage - i dont want them to learn these habits when they play starcraft 2. Tastosis is doing an awesome job i love them!
I honestly can't believe you've got a problem with tasteless.. I guess everyone's got their own tastes. He's solidly my favorite caster for both BW and SC2.
First off, I absolutely love Tastosis. I give them a 10/10. However, I do have one criticism for Tasteless and that is I believe he lacks game knowledge. I get the feeling he hasn't been involved with the game since the beta. It seems like he just goes into work and after work he forgets about Starcraft and does other projects, which is fine, but I feel it impacts his casts in a negative way.
The only thing i can agree with is Tasteless sometime being too repetitive, he always have to say "*name* such a good player" and stuff like that, otherwise he's the best commentator in SC2 imo.
Dan is more analytical because that's his cast type, Nick is more the colour commentator in the archon. But by no means is he any less knowledgeable that Dan. Watch Nick's casts with Kelly, Kelly was saying dumb shit all the time and Nick had to pick up the slack. The only reason he seems 'less experienced' is because he is paired with Dan (Dan likes to analyse deeply, where as from what I can see, this isn't Nicks style, but if he wanted to, he could, very easily).
They are the perfect Combination. Perfect casters both together, and individually.
You may not like the way he commentates but he is by no means inexperienced. Seeing as how he is the first real caster for starcraft 1 outside of korea.
I can see where you're coming from but I think you need to chill out.
SC1 broadcasts on ongamenet in korea have a rating of 12+... And you see mainstream-influenced 7th graders "swagged" out, generic image of a tween wearing halter tops and modeling pop stars to be hot and stuff. I think they can handle the -word- "sex", It's definitely not taboo at this age anymore I'd say.
@ a few posts above: Mira Han eh? Personally I glossed right over that.. Not a fan of the pink hair.
Tasteless keeps the show lively and entertaining for the viewers; he's the caster. The commentator - Artosis - analyses the game deeply. Together you have a deep analysis with humor a lot of people enjoy.
I was at WCG 06 Monza, Italy when Tasteless first got off the ground (as far as commentating) casting Brood War games. His background in this community is unmatched. He exemplifies the excitement of our community in every match he takes part of; Whether its World Cyber Games, GSL, or MLG he brings what no one else can - intuitive and emotional insight.
What makes Artosis and Tasteless perfect is the play-off of the architectural/technical insight Artosis lays in and Tasteless' emphatic reformations of terminologies not known by casual viewers. I think Tasteless knows this better than most. There are viewers that Artosis cannot reach with his knowledge that Tasteless can with his wittiness - casting basic knowledge translations which is not always apparent for the audience.
If it sounds like his descriptiveness during games is vague, than it would be better to base it off of the youthfulness of the game itself and not his 'mundane' cut-offs as you so eloquently put it. He has a formula that attracts viewers with his extensional commentary that allows the audience to sync with his dialog. Whether formal or informal, his input on matches and players is easy to follow and very entertaining.
If you want to watch Tasteless' best commentated match it would be Game 1 (I believe) of Draco vs. Midas WCG 06. It was a great solo cast and it was absolutely amazing.
I think thats just his style. I mean it's hard to try and suggest things that go entirely against someones personality so they can change it.
I personally really love his style and think it's refreshing compared to the other casters that are often about. I believe that every caster brings a little bit different style and you just have to learn to deal with it.
I think these casters should be supported more than they are criticized because of the sheer number of threads and posts on TL there have been about different casters and how they could improve or how "BAD" they are. It's hard to get in front of a camera and say everything perfect to please everyone. I feel that Tasteless doesn't really care about approval because obviously he has been a caster for a long time meaning most people like him.
Tasteless is how old now? mid 20s? Some of his jokes are of a style which might fit to a 13 year old school kid and thats when it gets bad.
The "problem" is that the constant - almost daily - exposure drains the repertoire of really good funny jokes easily, but when they are gone they switch to the "repertoire of dumb jokes". Its not like Tastosis have a group of ghostwriters for their jokes who work day and night to provide them with new stuff. Nevertheless the "13 year old jokes" should stop, because they are too primitive for grown ups.
Sadly there are too many fanboys who basically start yelling - like those 13 year old schoolgirls when the currently most popular boy band is in town - whenever Tastosis are doing anything without any ability to judge or any will to look at life with a critical eye. The blatant "Tasteless is awesome whatever they do" sentiment of too many posters here is just stupid, because no human is awesome all the time.
The only thing I dislike about Tasteless is how he deals with problems. Like if there's a delay/pause or the stream is going down, it's not the caster's position to draw attention to it. The most professional thing you can do is to move on, talk about something else, make it so that delay isn't an issue at all. I mean just look at how Tasteless and Day9 react when something goes wrong. Day9 does it totally right.
If u cant see reapating issue that tasteless have u are just blind fanboy. I am fan of him in general but I can see some slight problems. Even more, I think tastosis slacks a liitle bit in hyping imo after watching MLG I can say this.
On June 12 2011 17:26 NastyMarine wrote: To the OP:
I was at WCG 06 Monza, Italy when Tasteless first got off the ground (as far as commentating) casting Brood War games. His background in this community is unmatched. He exemplifies the excitement of our community in every match he takes part of; Whether its World Cyber Games, GSL, or MLG he brings what no one else can - intuitive and emotional insight.
What makes Artosis and Tasteless perfect is the play-off of the architectural/technical insight Artosis lays in and Tasteless' emphatic reformations of terminologies not known by casual viewers. I think Tasteless knows this better than most. There are viewers that Artosis cannot reach with his knowledge that Tasteless can with his wittiness - casting basic knowledge translations which is not always apparent for the audience.
If it sounds like his descriptiveness during games is vague, than it would be better to base it off of the youthfulness of the game itself and not his 'mundane' cut-offs as you so eloquently put it. He has a formula that attracts viewers with his extensional commentary that allows the audience to sync with his dialog. Whether formal or informal, his input on matches and players is easy to follow and very entertaining.
If you want to watch Tasteless' best commentated match it would be Game 1 (I believe) of Draco vs. Midas WCG 06. It was a great solo cast and it was absolutely amazing.
On June 12 2011 17:26 NastyMarine wrote: To the OP:
I was at WCG 06 Monza, Italy when Tasteless first got off the ground (as far as commentating) casting Brood War games. His background in this community is unmatched. He exemplifies the excitement of our community in every match he takes part of; Whether its World Cyber Games, GSL, or MLG he brings what no one else can - intuitive and emotional insight.
What makes Artosis and Tasteless perfect is the play-off of the architectural/technical insight Artosis lays in and Tasteless' emphatic reformations of terminologies not known by casual viewers. I think Tasteless knows this better than most. There are viewers that Artosis cannot reach with his knowledge that Tasteless can with his wittiness - casting basic knowledge translations which is not always apparent for the audience.
If it sounds like his descriptiveness during games is vague, than it would be better to base it off of the youthfulness of the game itself and not his 'mundane' cut-offs as you so eloquently put it. He has a formula that attracts viewers with his extensional commentary that allows the audience to sync with his dialog. Whether formal or informal, his input on matches and players is easy to follow and very entertaining.
If you want to watch Tasteless' best commentated match it would be Game 1 (I believe) of Draco vs. Midas WCG 06. It was a great solo cast and it was absolutely amazing.
Further illustrates the fact that I dont think tasteless really plays SC2 anymore. He seems to be falling farther behind in terms of game knowledge, its almost like he doesnt really have any idea what is going on.
Does anyone know the full sex joke Tasteless made and the context he made it in? Just curious because I can't imagine him fitting a joke about sex into a SC2 cast without it being slightly odd/inappropriate.
I disagree with everything to be honest. Sure not everyone is perfect but nothing of that ever bothered me and Tastosis are so good because they're being themselves.
i disagree with every point you mention. if you have a problem him mentioning ONCE the big secret to human society called sex you should mute GSL.
Seriously, do you actively search for things that can annoy you just to come here and create a thread about it?
you' re not gonna get support here...tasteless and artosis is one of the biggest reasons i watch gsl. i stopped watching code a when moletrap and doa casted.
well for me artosis is the reason i like "tastosis" doesn't really matter who the other one is could be someone else no problem for me. but you can't really criticize tasteless in a place like this...he could shit on the mic 24/7 and still be the best dude on earth cos he was "so awesome in bw".
The moment I read the title of this thread I knew how 50% of the answers would look like: tasteless was so good in bw sind 200x, so he obv is still perfect...
I already mentioned my criticism for tasteless many times, but yeah, it's ridiculous to talk about this on tl. Don't 100% agree with the OP. Especially the professional thing: Good, experienced casters don't have to always sound professional, thats kind of what makes them "less boring". And no matter how much I have criticism for nick: Tastosis are still funny and yes, they are an important factor for why the GSL is still fun...
But: I largely agree with points 1 and 2... Still what I think is more important is his lack of knowledge about the game. And imho that's the reason why he repeats so often... and why he just repeats whatever artosis just said (or started to say when nick cuts him off).
Anyways... Tastosis is prob the best duo out there and I mentioned it in the MLG thread: I had the feeling that Nick improved really fast lately with a great performance at MLG - so I'm confident that we'll see an even better Tastosis in the future (which seems to be almost impossible)
Disagree with everything. If he wanted constructive criticism, he would ask for it. Stop expecting perfection and just be appreciative we have such great people promoting esports.
Oh my god tasteless, what are you doing to the community?You lost your passion for SC! Say NO to tasteless! we want no more tasteless!!!!!!
Seriously guys, tasteless is one sick nerd baller, i prefer tastosis over ANY other duo on SC2 right now. I think they are doing an absolute fabulous job and shouldnt change a thing about it. lets be honest, people love em for what they do NOW. i watch every cast to do even if it at 4a.m.. Tasteless Hwaiting!
On June 12 2011 17:50 Steamroller wrote: If it wasn't for tastosis, i would skip most of the gsl matches.
This
On June 12 2011 18:33 WarpMePlz wrote: I hope for your sake this thread is closed before tasteless sees it and takes your ladder points.
And this pretty much sum up my thoughts on this thread. Tasteless is a great caster imo ^^ Sometimes with the things they discuss I think "are they allowed to talk about this?" and I can see where you're coming from in a sense but personally I don't see how anything he says could be offensive to anyone.
He's a funny, charismatic guy and has great chemistry with Artosis but he doesn't bring much to the table other than humour. I get the impression he doesn't watch a single minute of SC2 outside of the games he's paid to cast and if it wasn't his job he wouldn't watch those either. There's a stark contrast between his BW casts where he was actually well informed on the game and the players in it and SC2 where he appears to be completely ignorant of both. In my opinion he knows far less about SC2 and specifically the SC2 scene than someone like DJWheat, whose skill may be lacking but who has a genuine passion for the game, unlike Tasteless.
As far as the sex thing goes, I don't really give a fuck.
On June 12 2011 17:48 Axiom0 wrote: Does anyone know the full sex joke Tasteless made and the context he made it in? Just curious because I can't imagine him fitting a joke about sex into a SC2 cast without it being slightly odd/inappropriate.
They were doing their usual tastosis banter in the early stages of a game, and the topic of cramps came up, and tasteless said something like "You ever get a foot cramp during sex? That's like the flat tire of sex".
I am so astonished that anyone would actually be offended by this. Unbelievable.
I almost completely disagree with the OP; tasteless is very experienced in casting, and if people didn't like his casting universally, he would not be landing so many good jobs. And don't credit only to Artosis, Tasteless is a big part of the duo as well.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: - Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
Why shouldn't he mention sex? While I partially agree with Tyler about using words like rape, the bare act of mentioning sex is hardly something offensive.
I know why the OP made the title to this thread the way it is. I think he's just giving his honest assessment, and everyone can do the same, but let us at least be respectful of each person's POV. I love tastosis' casting style, but at the same time I find that there is nothing wrong with giving a little constructive criticism. Who knows, they're awesome now, but maybe if we focus on giving them a bit of constructive criticism (which is what the OP wanted this thread to be about) instead of bashing the OP for his POV, they'd be even better. If you think they're perfect, then no need to post anything, in my opinion. He's not bashing tasteless. He's just giving suggestions, which tasteless may or may not follow given his own assessment of the matter (assuming he sees this post).
You do know that Tasteless is one of the, if not the, most experienced English starcraft caster in the world? The way he casts is his style and what makes him so appealing as a caster.
Tasteless isn't perfect (and neither is Artosis), but his imperfection is what makes the casting duo perfect. They're just two guys giving entertaining analysis and coverage of some really high-level games.
When I watch GSL, I wish I could be friends with Tastosis, and if I'm getting that vibe, I think they're doing the best job they could possibly do.
Artosis and Tasteless fits like Penut Butter and Jelly, if tastless goes then.. i dont know man i might even take extreme measures even to quit watching GSL. Sure maybe Artosis speaks more professionally as a caster but having these two together casting is entertaining and factual.
I think Tasteless developed to the guy who explains stuff for the people who don't know much about StarCraft while Artosis explains stuff for the advanced StarCraft players.
That's why it might seem Tasteless is repetitive in his dicition.
Tasteless is a awesome and funny caster. Him and Artosis mesh very well together. Yes, he may want to use a little more variety in vocabulary (all casters should) and sometimes he does repeat what Artosis says. But his unique, relaxed casting style works very well and many times his analysis comes true even when Artosis would disagree with him initially.
(one great example was when it was a protoss blink stalkers versus Zerg on Scrap Station and Tasteless said the zerg needed a spine at his natural otherwise he would lose. Artosis disagreed with him saying he can hold it off without one. Turns out the zerg needed that spine to hold it off.)
Can't really say I agree with your concerns, what irks me about tasteless is the constant hyperbole and the mindless ability to instantly go from player x-is the best into player y-is-the-king-of-the-world over the course of a single game.
I disagree. He is a total baller and the relaxed mindset bring MORE people to the e-sport. If they're going to be all super cereal and not talk abit between matches and be abit funny everything is going to be so dry and not as interesting. The casters are interesting aswell as the match if you take away the interesting casters you've lost half the cake right there.
He's a great caster, but the repetition etc will always be the elephant in the room until Tasteless improves his knowledge of SC2. I love it when he talks about BW, he turns into another person because he knows the game.
Holy shit. Are there actually people complaining about the best casters in the SC2 community? Constructive criticism? Sure, I'm positive Tastosis will gladly take it if it's reasonable. This is just straight bitching and moaning. If you seriously have the time and urge to sit down to write a paragraph why these two aren't "good for e-sports", unplug your computer, put on your shoes, and get the fuck out of the house. Get a life. Seriously, this is pathetic.
Tasteless actually has more experience than Artosis by about a year in casting... but it just seems that Tasteless has hardly any knowledge of the game compared to Artosis or anyone who actually plays the game regularly, as I don't think he really plays the game anymore tbh.
He is constantly pointing out the obvious, or when he trys to be analytical he is corrected by Artosis But they're funny so no harm done.
Speak ill of any part of the casting Archon and you will be crucified. Joking aside, Tasteless does know when he interrupts Artosis. He actually apologizes each time this happens. And when it happens, it's usually because something important just occurred in the game.
Tasteless is a great caster and the perfect addition to artosis. I mean yeah, there are several fails within one show where he talks about strategy things and gets some parts wrong, but thats totally okay, cause one second later he tells an awesome joke and i cant stop laughing
There is a reason we all love Tastless so much, he is funny, he doesnt try to act like he is a main stream type caster (baseball, hockey etc.) and we all love Artosis as well but when Tastless has something to say he is gonna say it. As for the sex being mentioned once I dont really think that is a big deal, if he started talking about it every other game then I would say that he talks about it a little much but as is I think it is fine.
Tasteless is doing fine, the only thing that could improve perhaps would be to have some more quality insight from time to time like artosis does. The little tricks they sometimes tell like how to split probes against hellions or whatever.
it takes time to get used to tasteless but when u do u will realize that his commentating is pretty solid and he brings in alot of fun to the whole show...tasteless is more of a show/comedian than a commentator but he is capable of doing his job really well thnx to artosis they synch rly good together, they are pretty much the major reason why i watch gsl at least..
This is ridiculous, the posters in this thread I mean. OP has mentioned some entirely valid points in a completely friendly tone and how do people respond? By flaming him as a person and ignoring or completely disregarding his points, or making straw man arguments.
Just for reference, here are some paraphrased stupid things people have said in this thread
Irrelevant points:
I prefer tasteless over any other caster
The OP does too, but this isn't what is being discussed
If people didn't like his casting he wouldn't be getting jobs
Again, this isn't about whether people like his casting, the OP has explictily said he is a big fan of Tastosis. It is about whether these particular words and behaviours of tasteless could be improved upon and whether they are bad for esports, he can be liked as a caster while still having these faults and having them affect esports.
This is just bitching
Do you search for things that annoy you just to post threads about them?
Sigh..
Strawman arguments
They don't need to be perfect
Nobody said anything about perfect, and I highly doubt it takes someone perfect to improve on the points made by the OP.
This represents a small niche of people trying to force casters to perform how they see fit
No, if this were the case then he wouldn't be asking for other people's opinions, he is making suggestions not demands.
He is who he is
But is it affecting esports? You haven't responded to the main contention of this thread.
Please think a bit more before you post.
And personally, I think this is a bit of a grey area in that Tasteless is promoting esports with his character but admittedly detracting a little with it as well in some of the things he says. I do think he should make an effort to improve as a caster, but I think all casters should keep trying to improve themselves. These are some good points that I feel would help Tasteless' casting career and esports as a whole, particularly his slightly lacking vocabulary when describing players and the sex remarks.
I hope he doesn't change one bit. The "unprofessionalism" is what makes him so good. Look at NASL: I personally dont like the casts at all, they're generic, boring and way to formal. Incontrol is such a genious entertainer, but he's held back by being "professional" (with some moments of glory in between). Tastosis actually say that a player is bad, that he will get stomped and that he will lose, if it looks bad (NASL casts are always like "he's such a great great player" regardless of who plays). The random banter when nothing happens is far better than some "minerals being mined" cast that just states the obvious over and over again. Them calling games over when they aren't just builds up excitement.
I feel that all this "professionalism" is way over board. If SC2 is to be established as an ESPORT, it will be established in our current generation. My dad and his generation will never be interested in SC2, but that is not a bad thing. I just feel that changing the SC2 scene into something "adult" when the majority of the crowd is exactly not that is a bad thing (don't have the illusion the older crowd will be converted). I wouldn't watch a SC2 TV channel when all they do is bringing boring NASL like casts
tasteless is such a good commentator because of the points you don't like about him. Because most people just like this. <3 tasteless talking about lurker in bw
Use the Korean view of the map, because thei're so bad! Only casting but use the korean view of the battle! Korean are so much better they don't miss any important thing.
I disagree as well, i think the biggest fault is using the word "inexperience" if any english caster has any experience its friggin Tasteless. hes probably the one thats been casting the longest out of anyone.
to each his own i guess. but if i were tasteless i wouldnt change a thing, keep doing what youre doing Nick!!
Such ridiculous points in this thread over and over again...
On June 12 2011 20:17 FeyFey wrote: tasteless is such a good commentator because of the points you don't like about him. Because most people just like this. <3 tasteless talking about lurker in bw
Really? You like that he repeats stuff, cuts artosis off and that his sc2 analysis is wrong pretty often? Did you even read the OP? Or did you just see that somebody critizised your bw casting hero?
On June 12 2011 20:13 XenoX101 wrote: This is ridiculous, the posters in this thread I mean. OP has mentioned some entirely valid points in a completely friendly tone and how do people respond? By flaming him as a person and ignoring or completely disregarding his points, or making straw man arguments.
Just for reference, here are some paraphrased stupid things people have said in this thread
If people didn't like his casting he wouldn't be getting jobs
Again, this isn't about whether people like his casting, the OP has explictily said he is a big fan of Tastosis. It is about whether these particular words and behaviours of tasteless could be improved upon and whether they are bad for esports, he can be liked as a caster while still having these faults and having them affect esports.
But is it affecting esports? You haven't responded to the main contention of this thread.
Please think a bit more before you post.
And personally, I think this is a bit of a grey area in that Tasteless is promoting esports with his character but admittedly detracting a little with it as well in some of the things he says. I do think he should make an effort to improve as a caster, but I think all casters should keep trying to improve themselves. These are some good points that I feel would help Tasteless' casting career and esports as a whole, particularly his slightly lacking vocabulary when describing players and the sex remarks.
Affecting e-Sports?
Are you, the OP, and the people that actually in any way agree with what was said serious?
What is affecting e-Sports, is definately not Tasteless. It's the "e" in e-Sports that is. It's the portion of the community who are socially inept, wouldn't know what a real girl is, but love the anonymity that the internet gives them to say whatever stupid thing comes to their mind with no social ramifications.
TL;DR, Geeks crying on forums.
Tasteless is far from your standard "nerd", his actually somebody who can relate to normal people (unlike a lot of you). If anything, he is doing more for e-Sports, than any of you forum warriors ever could.
I think you should back off, enjoy what all these people bringing you your e-Sports have to offer, or download replays and watch and commentate them to yourself in your dark, lonely basements.
On June 12 2011 20:17 MaGariShun wrote: I hope he doesn't change one bit. The "unprofessionalism" is what makes him so good. Look at NASL: I personally dont like the casts at all, they're generic, boring and way to formal. Incontrol is such a genious entertainer, but he's held back by being "professional" (with some moments of glory in between). Tastosis actually say that a player is bad, that he will get stomped and that he will lose, if it looks bad (NASL casts are always like "he's such a great great player" regardless of who plays). The random banter when nothing happens is far better than some "minerals being mined" cast that just states the obvious over and over again. Them calling games over when they aren't just builds up excitement.
I feel that all this "professionalism" is way over board. If SC2 is to be established as an ESPORT, it will be established in our current generation. My dad and his generation will never be interested in SC2, but that is not a bad thing. I just feel that changing the SC2 scene into something "adult" when the majority of the crowd is exactly not that is a bad thing (don't have the illusion the older crowd will be converted). I wouldn't watch a SC2 TV channel when all they do is bringing boring NASL like casts
Not really. Calling the games before the 'gg' actually kills the excitement, but this only happens because they've played the game enough to know what an extremely hard-to-comeback-from position looks like and they do recognize when players actually have the potential/start to comeback.
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
am i honestly the only one who feels Starcraft is not a family game, or a game for kids in general? FFS people its all about violently exterminating eachother! this game shouldnt be played by people younger then 12 or maybe even oloder so I really dont see the problem with a sex joke.
When I watch professional SC2, I want the commentators to explain the game and most of all, I want them to provide excitement for the game. I thought Tastosis were really funny when I started following GSL in season 2. 6-7 months later, I am so very tired of their never ending jokes. For me it often gets to a point where the quality of the cast suffers. Instead of being excited about the game and the current actions on the map, I am supposed to get excited about Tasteless' way of stealing ladder points. This is why I have lost much interest in the GSL lately. I tune in to watch top-tier SC2, just to hear another unrelated joke, or critisism of the players. I didn't realize how tired I was of Tastosis until I watched MLG and instantly chose to commit entirely to DayWheat because they had more passion.
Summary: Tastosis are good casters but they need to cut down on the joking and focus more on the games, and bringing excitement to the viewers. More screaming please! :D
I don't remember Tasteless talking about sex that much, but there was one incident that made me go WTF. It was when he said that "dolphins engage in gangrape".
I'm not a prude or anything but the last thing I expected to hear on a starcraft broadcast was that. It was pretty weird and off-putting.
The only thing I don't particularly enjoy is when they tell you it's going to be game way before it is which kinda makes watching the rest just slightly less interesting. Not quite fond of that, but apart from that - no real concerns.
1) The diction thing. Okay....not very many people have an elaborate diction. Geoff is a fucking English major and he has to make up words to get a broader vocabulary, trolololol. What does it matter? You're going on about professionalism, give me one set of North American broadcasters that cast as much as Tasteless and yet don't repeat themselves. Tasteless and Artosis cast how many games when the GSL is really roaring? Repetition is to be expected.
2) Yeah, Tastless interrupts Artosis. Artosis interrupts Tasteless. Day9 and DjWheat interrupt each other. Chill and Day9 interrupt each other. Everyone interrupts each other. That's the hazard present in commentating a game that can change in a split second. You know that aspect of the game that excites us so much? Yeah, that's the very same aspect that makes it difficult for casting. Tasteless used to be FAR worse about this even a year ago. He's getting better though. Fair complain, I guess.
Okay guys. This is getting annoying.
Fucking ESPORTS? Are you serious? Tasteless is hampering ESPORTS because he made a sex joke on air?!?! No, seriously. Have you seen American TV in the past ten years? Sex scenes on prime time basic TV will show people bumping and grinding as long as they have the semblance of clothes on. Then, when you're crying about that, go on to basic cable. You have everything but nipple and penetration showing. Hell, some of the shows will give you nipple if you beg for it. Then you can go to Cinemax or HBO and get everything but the wang.
With sex permeating everything in our society, are you really going to tell me an off-handed sex joke from Tasteless is harming the credibility of ESPORTS?
I just have to wrap my head around it. Considering the main demographic of this game is teenage-adult males...and the most off-color jokes you get are sex jokes....what's the problem? If you're disappointed because someone made a "penetration" joke on SOTG, ITG, GSL, or TSL then I'm sorry man. I doubt ESPORTS will ever get mainstream if those are the requirements. No jokes? Really?
On a side note, what jokes would be okay to say? I guarantee you that the 11 pages of this thread that are full of rampant (and honestly, a bit overboard) defense of Tastosis is only a furtherance of my point. They're solidly cornered the demographic represented and aimed for. If these 11 pages love him for it, and you know even more who don't post/read the forums love them for it to, then what honestly is the problem?
This is just more whining and putting unrealistic expectations on people in the guise of ESPORTS. I promise you guys, ESPORTS is not as demanding as you make it out to be. It's doing damn fine right now, and it'll be doing even better in the future.
If there was one thing I could change about Tasteless it would be his repeating of Artosis. He does it very frequently, just straight up repeating what Artosis says ASAP
Artosis: "This doesn't look good ... " Tasteless: "This doesn't look good ... "
Artosis: "Zerg's in trouble ... " Tasteless: "Zerg's in trouble! "
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
I don't understand how this thread managed to get further than this post. Tasteless, if you're ever looking to change something about the way you cast, it should be CASTING MORE GAMES.
When Tasteless commentates solo all of these issues go away. During the World Championship the few moments Artosis wasn't there he did good analysis, never repeated himself and so on. It's just there isn't much more he can add to what Artosis says (because he's right) and his purpose is to bring up stuff Artosis misses, be funny, and give his co-caster a break from talking constantly.
One of the things that makes tasteless so good is hes not some bland robo-caster character trying to bring total professionalism to the game. Its an entertainment industry and he brings it more than anyone. He actually shows he has some cultural experience with his anecdotes and isn't just living sc2 24/7 like moletrap (who almost never understood his co-casters jokes or references)
It's obvious to anyone with a critical mind that Tasteless doesn't play SC2 that much/as much because compared to his BW heyday, his game/build knowledge is lacking (this leaks into his commentary, hence the repetition, the 'he was so goooood'-style analysis). When he talks about BW during his GSL casts, we see the Tasteless of old, who was the complete package.
I love his unprofessional-ism and his jokes and with Artosis he is one half of the defining voice of Starcraft 2. That's why people care so much. Honestly, I don't think it's his fault. It's SC2.
Sadly, there's a distinct lack of critical minds in this thread!
Tasteless sucks, I can't stand em. All these bad jokes and this senseless bullshit blablabla. 90% of his talking has nothing to do with the game. I hope he gets fired in the future.
Tastosis is fine. Make a poll and see what happens, but they shouldn't change @ all. I dont think its Tasteless, but you being to annoyed @ how he casts. Its not a shame to have that, you might enjoy other casters more then i do. But tastosis (to me) Is the best casting duo atm
[/QUOTE]I don't understand how this thread managed to get further than this post. Tasteless, if you're ever looking to change something about the way you cast, it should be CASTING MORE GAMES.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts excatly. If you think you can do better and be more entertaning then apply to gomtv. I belive there is a job opening. http://www.gomtv.net/2011super1/news/65501
i can see haters for tasteless like i can see fans for husky. anyway some ppl do not deserve to watch casts by tasteless and artosis. its a matter of quality and sc2 insight. so simple. OP n others show total ignorance when saying like ''tasteless slightly unexperienced caster''. oic. at least the portion of them is like 10 to 500.
I have already posted a rant about not enjoying Tastosis casts much, but I feel I should actually specify what bugs me about each specific caster:
Tasteless jokes a little too much. I trust his knowlege of the game, and of the korean scene in general.I would like to hear more of it. He states the obvious a little too much. He could show more passion for the matches. It's often Artosis being excited and Tasteless just saying "Yeah", in a common voice.
Artosis also jokes too much. I sometimes feel his knowlege of the game is a little overrated. I don't like when he criticizes the players' choices instead of explaining them. He states the game is over way to fast. I feel that any caster should always wait for the gg before making assumptions.
Only a few other people touched on it, but I'm gonna bring it up again. What does you being Korean have anything to do with your knowledge of esports? If esports weren't socially acceptable, then they wouldn't be aired on television and people wouldn't be attending these events. Don't be silly.
Here we go again, why the exclusion? Do we want kids' moms to cut them off from anything SC2 related because a pair of casters talked about sex? Is this the kind of impression we want to be giving to the public?
They actually should be excluded as long the current integrity of the casting remains.
Their mom will ban them from watching or playing SC2. In the future one or all of them will get around to watching it when they are old enough to use their own judgement. They'll shrug when the majority of games don't have a sex joke that could make them uptight and accept the scene for what it is, a less uptight version of competitive sports.
The OP has a point that TAsteless should offer better insight into his thought process when he ends up interrupting Artosis only to point out something amusing (which is a coin flip in the chuckle inducement because of the poor timing) or only to say something really simple like GOOD. He needs to take a breath and offer better commentary then. The rest of his casting is fine.
Besides people should be less concerned about what Tasteless' casting is doing for the image of professionalism with esports than the reliance of ID tags for players.
Our gamer mentality to refer people by their ID instead of their name is far more damaging. It would be preferable if the ID and names were interchangeable in usage but if I had to fall back on one to lend some more professionalism to the scene I would have to be forced to use a person's name.
ID tags regardless of how you came up with them originally are filtered through the bias of what viewers know. A friend of mine has had a noticeable dislike for Marinekingprime primarily because of his ID. Whenever he makes mistakes he'll call him out on it with far more enthusiasm than other players.
Lot's of people held their nose when a guy decided to call himself Alicia and they still do.
Using actual names gives you a connection to the person's possible ethnic origin (which you can have an easier time identifying with), and allows you to speak about them in casual conversation without random jokes interrupting the flow of the conversation.
Watch things you like and don't try to change things you don't like. He shouldn't change for you and he has no responsibility to make e-sports mainstream. Your opinion is fine and so is the fact that you dislike how he casts and if there are enough people that share your opinion he will be forced to change his style or be fired. If he changes to satisfy people like you then people like me will be less satisfied so no matter what somebody is not going to be fully satisfied. Unfortunately it is you in this circumstance but you can realize that other people enjoy his casting alot and everything you see isn't going to be exactly what you want.
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
This.
I've never noticed tasteless cutting off Artosis, and aside from his sex remark (i noted it too and thought it was too off-topic even for tasteless) everything else about them is perfect. They fill time when there is no action better than any other casting pair, something that is very hard to do because you can say "and they're massing up.... yep" only so much. Who gives a shit about using some of the same words, he's been using more every cast too. I think you're nitpicking on things that bother you particularly. go back and watch more casts, you'll notice tasteless introduces new vocabulary on the nerd world fairly often. I know i've had to google some of his words more than once =P
Its a very good thing tasteless doesent read teamliquid. This thread is moot in that regard. Its more of a way for people to vent for whatever small frustrations they have with Nick. My thoughts.
I LOVE tasteless, he is awesome caster and he is good as it is. He does not have very good game and strategy knowledge, but that's why he is with artosis.
I can't think of anyone worse than GSL being boring and mainstream. If it gets popular then great, but I wouldn't want that at the expense of changing Tastosis.
Never noticed any of the complaints the OP has made. I guess I'm lucky. Although I want to get on the hate bandwagon aswell. Tasteless why are you acting like yourself?!?!?!!?
I don't understand how this thread managed to get further than this post. Tasteless, if you're ever looking to change something about the way you cast, it should be CASTING MORE GAMES.
My thoughts excatly. If you think you can do better and be more entertaning then apply to gomtv. I belive there is a job opening. http://www.gomtv.net/2011super1/news/65501
Great argument... Criticism should always be countered with "you do better!".
Everyone can improve in what they do, be it work or hobby. As long as it's constructive and not offensive i really don't see a problem with providing some pointers.
if you want to critisize tasteless, why do you write about him in third person instead of adressing him directly?
Also, tasteless stated multiple times (i think) that he does not read teamliquid anymore, so the odds of him reading or caring about this thread are at about 0,0001%.
If tasteless started to force himself to sound proffesional then I wouldnt watch him anymore, he needs to be himself and to be natural when he casts. Thats why we love tastosis, because they are two strong personalities that we love and know, they shouldnt change a thing.
disagree with all above tasteless is fine with artosis they are perfect tbh plus tasteless has more experience at casting than artosis so i dunno what your talking about plus whats wrong with sex? lets be honest that its a human nature thing soo ye.... i personally don't really care they are funny and ya know sex isn't really bad if they swore or anything i would probs be like hmmm... shouldn't do that but everything is fine love gay for tasteless tbh nom nom nom nom nom nom nom
Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
Amen. Thanks for voicing my displeasure.
I thought I'd seen it all with the caster threads. But Tasteless? Really?
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: inexperienced as a caster?
Are we talking about the Tasteless who was one of the first big foreign casters in BW and SC2 and has done more casting in high level tournaments than pretty much everyone else combined? Of course not counting Artosis but anyways.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
Chill out. The criticism isn't that bad and he even says he has no problem with the relaxed comical part of the casts. This thread is bad but some of the defensive fanboys are even worse.
I'm really confused with this OP. I have noticed tasteless do none of these in a bad way. Everything seems to fix together perfectly with his casting. His laid back nature is what makes him significantly better than Day9's really excited super serious casting.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
Chill out. The criticism isn't that bad and he even says he has no problem with the relaxed comical part of the casts. This thread is bad but some of the defensive fanboys are even worse.
Sorry, bud. You got it all wrong. I'm not defending Tasteless, he hardly needs it. Just voicing my opinion on the absolutely ridiculous trend of "X is hurting e-sports we need to appeal more to soccer moms".
Edited out needless frustration. You're still being silly.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster?
I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
You cast about 5 hours of content a week and sound fresh and different all the time. kthx.
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
You cast 5 hours a week and not cut off your partner 100% of the time. kthx.
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
You do realize that he curbs 95% of who he is, have you seen his appearance on SotG? Jesus man.
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
It's not that you come off sounding too critical, it's that you come from a perspective that just has no idea.
This post reminds me of TotalBiscuit's ridiculous rant about idra's casting, except TotalBiscuit is a full-time caster and radio personality as his career, and at least has that as the backing for what he is saying (even if the motivation behind his stupid post on reddit was because he was just very salty towards EG as a whole still).
Also this doesn't deserve it's own topic, there is a place where you can give feedback about this sort of thing on gomtv.net. thx
On June 12 2011 22:29 baldgye wrote: My only criticism could be that they(taistosis) are too Korean focused (hardly there fault) and that he is too damn sexy.
Uhhh... You realize they're casting (mostly) Korean games, right? Right?
On June 12 2011 20:45 ChickenLips wrote: If there was one thing I could change about Tasteless it would be his repeating of Artosis. He does it very frequently, just straight up repeating what Artosis says ASAP
Artosis: "This doesn't look good ... " Tasteless: "This doesn't look good ... "
Artosis: "Zerg's in trouble ... " Tasteless: "Zerg's in trouble! "
This is really the only negative thing I have to say about his casting. Some other very, very minor stuff as well, but noone's perfect. There are far more things I love about his casting, especially together with Artosis, so it's not like I really care.
KUTGW Tasteless, don't listen to the haters!
btw the OP should check out TLO and 2GD casting the Swedish WCG qualifiers if he thinks Tasteless is inappropriate. Most hilarious cast ever, and very un-PC. Put a funny German and a funny Englishman who lacks a filter of any kind together in an impromptu cast, and inappropriate hilarity will ensue.
What the fuck are you talking about? All those little things that Tasteless and Artosis do are what make them the most interesting casting archon to watch.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
I'll jump on this bandwagon and agree with everyone that disagrees with this thread. Watch thebest vs markineking and come back to this thread about lack of professionalism. They singlehandely saved one of the worst games in the history of sc2 and made it into recommendable games for the casting only.
How you can complain about someone being stagnant with their dictionary is just funny. Do you have any idea how hard it is to change constantly the words they use with so many hours they have to commentante? Sure he keeps saying this and that is "such a technical xxx", but that's just the way he is. He can't really change himself to satisfy people at every turn.
Watch moletrap and doa commentating code a, and then come back to this thread to complain about people cutting off each other aswell. Sure Tasteless do it from time to time, but at least they can adapt to it and even make "conch" jokes about it. In other duo casts it just ends up akward.
The only thing I hate about them is that they oftentimes interrupt each other in the middle of their sentences... otherwise they're really the most entertaining casting duo to watch.
Though I am really wishing the Plott brothers would do one together ;/
On June 12 2011 22:29 baldgye wrote: My only criticism could be that they(taistosis) are too Korean focused (hardly there fault) and that he is too damn sexy.
Uhhh... You realize they're casting (mostly) Korean games, right? Right?
lol yeah... but I'd still love them to appear (via the interwebs) at things that are pre-recorded like NASL etc..
but yeah I really have no real cutting criticism becasue I think he's one of the best casters, and with Artosis the best casters in pretty much all of e-sports.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
I know you've posted 5 times as much as I have while being here for only about a month longer but might I ask one simple question even if it assaults your superior post count?
Who are you?
The last 10ish posts you've made insult whatever topic you're posting in.
The majority opinion in this thread is that Tasteless should not change but at least the majority didn't make a personal attack on the OP.
On June 12 2011 17:48 Axiom0 wrote: Does anyone know the full sex joke Tasteless made and the context he made it in? Just curious because I can't imagine him fitting a joke about sex into a SC2 cast without it being slightly odd/inappropriate.
They were doing their usual tastosis banter in the early stages of a game, and the topic of cramps came up, and tasteless said something like "You ever get a foot cramp during sex? That's like the flat tire of sex".
I am so astonished that anyone would actually be offended by this. Unbelievable.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
I know you've posted 5 times as much as I have while being here for only about a month longer but might I ask one simple question even if it assaults your superior post count?
Who are you?
The last 10ish posts you've made insult whatever topic you're posting in.
The majority opinion in this thread is that Tasteless should not change but at least the majority didn't make a personal attack on the OP.
Whoever he is, I salute the guy. He's saying what needs to be said and saying it how it needs to be said.
GSL/MLG didn't have enough sex on the live stream. Fix please. Also, I miss outragious coloured hair. Bright lime green was pimpin. Also, somebody make a map with the Panda Bear guy in it please.
I swear to god, mentioning "unproffesional" or "hurts esports" or anything similar should come with at least a warning, if not a temp ban on TL. I mean, before you start this "critique" maybe just like take a step back and ask yourself "who the fuck are you", cos really, how on earth did you imagine this thread to be received.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
What the fuck is up with USA and that countrys fear of sex? How is mentioning sex to a young child going to effect that child negatively at all? It doesn't make any fucking sense.
Anyone who thinks that the word "sex" is inappropriate can fuck off in my opinion. When has a child EVER become mentally scarred by hearing someone talk about it?
Does OP realize that we are talking about a 'military science fiction real-time strategy video game'? Starcraft is a game about war and killing and destruction. There is blood and gore aplenty. You cannot seriously argue that tasteless using the word 'sex' (come on, how stuck up can you be) is detrimental to the game's image in that perspective.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
What the fuck is up with USA and that countrys fear of sex? How is mentioning sex to a young child going to effect that child negatively at all? It doesn't make any fucking sense.
Anyone who thinks that the word "sex" is inappropriate can fuck off in my opinion. When has a child EVER become mentally scarred by hearing someone talk about it?
Also, the game has a fucking teen rating anyway.
Theres a real point. One country has a pretty stingy view of sex so an internationally watched tournament ... my brain just shat.
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
What the fuck is up with USA and that countrys fear of sex? How is mentioning sex to a young child going to effect that child negatively at all? It doesn't make any fucking sense.
Anyone who thinks that the word "sex" is inappropriate can fuck off in my opinion. When has a child EVER become mentally scarred by hearing someone talk about it?
Also, the game has a fucking teen rating anyway.
Its not like he was talking about analing some chick or something, he just made a joke.
He made the joke about being on the ladder, about ripping a nerds head off or something, I expected people to go apeshit at that, but no, then he says the word sex and people are offended?
If I was a mod I would warn anyone who was making stupid comments about "professionalism" but then again thats why I wouldn't be a good mod :p
btw if youre offended by the word sex..... you probably shouldnt be awake watching gsl at the time its on anyway.
That's exactly the point. If we want e-sports to grow it needs to be accessible and appropriate for EVERYONE. Why exclude someone because they're too young to be comfortable without publicly talking about sex? They damn well might be old enough to enjoy Starcraft, and that's what matters.
That being said, Tastosis is pretty awesome, and they're a great duo to watch/listen to games with, but I agree with the OP saying that Tasteless shouldn't be interrupting Artosis so much during pivotal points. When Artosis is trying to explain a technical aspect of the game, Tasteless should wait till he's done before butting in with a random comment. I understand that this is part of how they work, Tasteless with his energy/jokes and Artosis with his analytical commentary. Just because they've been doing this for years doesn't mean that there aren't things to improve upon. I'm sure people will like Tastosis just fine if Tasteless holds out a bit and lets Artosis finish before joining in.
what if theres a japanese person whos offended by the use of the word "nuke"? what if theres someone whos offended by the word "snipe"?
Nice use of Destiny's retorts against this. We aren't talking about Destiny, we're talking about Tasteless. Destiny doesn't give a fuck about what the public thinks of him OR of e-sports in general, he's just doing his thing and making a living off of it. Tasteless is completely different, he actually cares about spreading e-sports and expanding it as far as possible. These criticisms are meant to nitpick everything he does, they're meant to help him do what HE wants to do. That's why they're called "constructive". You can troll all you want, but I'm sure Tasteless wants to be able to globalize Starcraft as much as possible.
Yeah, but I don't think he wants to neuter or censor the content being delivered to the target audience when it's age appropriate to the content of the game and content being portrayed on screen. Refer to my earlier post on the matter.
It's essentially like removing the language from Gears of War and handing it to your son and saying, "It's okay for you to play now, don't mind the blood, gore and violence". It comes down to the standards parents set for their children, if they have specificity in their restrictions regardless of age appropriation, that's a non-issue to me and I don't think it's something that should be considered with the "growth of eSports" argument. The target audience is age restrictive regardless and the content of the cast is age appropriate.
Without highlighting any clear gains, it's really weird for me to accept someone saying, "This would grow the scene and be worth the cuts made". I'd essentially be losing a laugh at a joke for a number that we have absolutely no idea about, it could be minuscule and even so, it's an audience I don't care about because it's an audience of parents who are fine with exposing their children to violence and gore but have an aversion to the word "sex".
I would agree if SC2 had any sexual implications in it. But there's not a hint of it in there, so that's why I don't see talking about sex as appropriate. I agree that SC2 itself is age-restrictive because of the violence, but I feel like that's in a different category. You could be right though, I really don't know how this affects children in the age group we're talking about.
One joke offended you this much when there are pg 13 movies parents take their 7 years olds to see that have way more sex jokes than a tastosis cast. Are you serious?
ITS NOT about kids needing protection or w/e bull****, they find their ways to do things they're not allowed to do.
But the" fact" that a commentator IS mentioning sex in a show, which OBVIOUSLY has viewers underage is the problem here.
What the fuck is up with USA and that countrys fear of sex? How is mentioning sex to a young child going to effect that child negatively at all? It doesn't make any fucking sense.
Anyone who thinks that the word "sex" is inappropriate can fuck off in my opinion. When has a child EVER become mentally scarred by hearing someone talk about it?
Also, the game has a fucking teen rating anyway.
Its a USA thing. No way around it, but every conversation will devolve into that eventually. They just aren't as "okay" with it as the rest of the world is. Really dissapoiting, but until that chagnes, people will keep throwing around the SEX IS BAD WE NEED TO KEEP IT FROM KIDS argument.
On June 12 2011 22:23 vyyye wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, another random internet hero giving "constructive criticism" with a sad attempt at sounding like he knows fuck all.
Yeah, agree OP. For the growth of e-sports let's remove everything that makes it worth anything. Tasteless? Pah, why would we want to have a commentator who has been loved for years? He's not professional enough?
I swear, if e-sports ever becomes what this stupidly vocal minority wants it to be I'll start muting streams, watching with music on and sure as fuck won't be giving any money to it. If you want your grand parents to cast games just ask them, I sure as hell don't want them.
I know you've posted 5 times as much as I have while being here for only about a month longer but might I ask one simple question even if it assaults your superior post count?
Who are you?
The last 10ish posts you've made insult whatever topic you're posting in.
The majority opinion in this thread is that Tasteless should not change but at least the majority didn't make a personal attack on the OP.
First off, yes I spent ages having fun posting in LR threads, not sure what that has to do with anything. May I ask when I ever brought up my post count? Because I honestly can't remember mentioning it in any post on TL.
To answer your question, I'm a poster on TL voicing his opinion. If I've crossed the line where I am doing nothing but insulting other posters I'm sure I'll be notified by a PM and a ban soon enough.
I could've put it in a more politically correct manner but what the fuck, I find the whole notion of "X has to do Y to grow e-sports" absolutely ridiculous. Especially when X just happens to be one of the main forces behind SC2.
There's a bloody reason people almost unanimously agree that Tastosis are two of the best SC2 casters in the world. It's not because they're perfect, it's not because they can't improve nor because they never utter a PC word. It's because they are fantastic casters and you can tell they love what they do and they love the game they're casting.
I rest my bloody case, by all means add your input on what Tasteless should do to better grow SC2. I just can't see how making every community figure in SC2 more boring than my high school maths teacher will help the case.
tasteless got me into watching starcraft (back in the days with SDM) so I will always be a fan. Besides that: him and artosis are the perfect caster-couple. tasteless gives me smiles and Artosis will make me say "aha?" and "well, yeah, thats true"
Tasteless is the best commentator in my opinion. I feel like the majority of people who disagree are people who say that GOMtv should "Get Husky to cast these games" (I think we can all agree that we do not want that at all). Tasteless knows the game very well and frankly, while he may not be the most professional caster, he's enjoyable to listen to.
On June 12 2011 23:43 The Final Boss wrote: Tasteless is the best commentator in my opinion. I feel like the majority of people who disagree are people who say that GOMtv should "Get Husky to cast these games" (I think we can all agree that we do not want that at all). Tasteless knows the game very well and frankly, while he may not be the most professional caster, he's enjoyable to listen to.
personally I thought husky and day9 were an awesome caster-team in the TSL.
Tasteless if you read that thread made by this 5-poster, don't listen, for one guy like this there are 100 that want you to keep it your way.
EDIT ; I laughed so many times in front of my computer listening to some Tasteless jokes. What's the point of asking him to get more serious ? Laughing is pretty good, i heard.
Don't change anything tasteless. They are a big part of why I even watch the GSL. They are the best casting duo ever. They just make every single game better to watch.
On June 12 2011 15:10 VPCursed wrote: If he becomes more professional i will be disappointed.. Hes doing perfect imho. I don't want a Serious cast. I want to relax and have fun and hear some stupid shit from time to time. Which is exactly what we get with the current Tastosis
Exactly!!! We need Tasteless to be fun as he is right now.
I think that sometimes when Artosis and Tasteless get comfortable they can fool around (like the used to in Code A matches) and such. When you look at jobs they can like at MLG where large number of NA fans are watching (that might not know them) they are super serious and good casters.
I agree, sex should never be mentioned again. In fact, the word and those with similar meanings should be outlawed, with the end goal of humanity forgetting how to reproduce. If that's a taboo in South Korea, I suppose it's working as South Korea's birth rate is the lowest in the whole world :-)
Sarcasm aside, how touchè are you OP?
came to mind while reading your post. It's Dawkins with a few stellar points about the likes of people spending energy being offended by trivial matters.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: - Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
What has sex ever done to you? Without sex you wouldn't be here.
I actually like Tasteless way better than Artosis. Love his strange jokes. I don't agree with the OP, but can someone please tell Tasteless that you cannot "implore a strategy." I think you're going for employ, but I dunno. That's my only complaint about the man.
it feels wrong that this thread has reached 15 pages, it somehow construes that we're having a serious discussion about the suggestions in the original post. and theres no flame war so it hasnt been closed yet. feels bad man
vyyye I brought up your post count because its five times mine and I believe I should take that into account when questioning what you say. You didn't just blow in here from the bnet forums and LULZ MARINES ARE SO OP WHENS THE REOVOLUTION!>! crap, you've posted here a lot and I respect that. I was saying that I'm hesitant to call you out on this but I'm going to anyway.
And this is what I'm saying. Are you actually reading the thread? Because despite the usual amount of fluff and bullshit comments most people, you and I being among them, are in agreement that Tasteless offending someone has nothing to do with Tasteless. But your approach is a little less constructive and more confrontational.
Yes, Tasteless is a better caster than Husky and his name is fucking Tasteless. If you are surprised by a comment about sex then I'll patiently explain the definition of the word. (^This is directed at the thread and not vyyye^)
I personally agree with 1 to some degree, but I think that's part of his charm - the continuity between each cast makes it feel like tastosis. Nearly every caster has this in common with Tasteless - it's pretty damn difficult to stop saying things you're used to saying, especially when you're live on air and don't want to fuck up!
2 and 3 I disagree with. Occasionally he repeats things Artosis has previously said like they're new material, but he's only human and every caster makes mistakes.
Still my favourite caster, still a talented, experienced caster. This being said, I think he's got a bit more lax with his casting in the past month or 2? Perhaps he needs to have a few less nights on the razz.
On June 12 2011 21:03 kidleader wrote: It's obvious to anyone with a critical mind that Tasteless doesn't play SC2 that much/as much because compared to his BW heyday, his game/build knowledge is lacking (this leaks into his commentary, hence the repetition, the 'he was so goooood'-style analysis). When he talks about BW during his GSL casts, we see the Tasteless of old, who was the complete package.
I love his unprofessional-ism and his jokes and with Artosis he is one half of the defining voice of Starcraft 2. That's why people care so much. Honestly, I don't think it's his fault. It's SC2.
Sadly, there's a distinct lack of critical minds in this thread!
Quoting for truth, as they say. Tasteless has very little actual SC2 knowledge, and it shows. In fact, if it wasn't Tasteless, it would piss me off. I would be surprised if it didn't bother Artosis a bit also.
Is Tasteless still an awesome person and a fairly entertaining caster? Yes.
On June 12 2011 21:03 kidleader wrote: It's obvious to anyone with a critical mind that Tasteless doesn't play SC2 that much/as much because compared to his BW heyday, his game/build knowledge is lacking (this leaks into his commentary, hence the repetition, the 'he was so goooood'-style analysis). When he talks about BW during his GSL casts, we see the Tasteless of old, who was the complete package.
I love his unprofessional-ism and his jokes and with Artosis he is one half of the defining voice of Starcraft 2. That's why people care so much. Honestly, I don't think it's his fault. It's SC2.
Sadly, there's a distinct lack of critical minds in this thread!
Quoting for truth, as they say. Tasteless has very little actual SC2 knowledge, and it shows. In fact, if it wasn't Tasteless, it would piss me off. I would be surprised if it didn't bother Artosis a bit also.
Is Tasteless still an awesome person and a fairly entertaining caster? Yes.
Very little knowledge ? What the hell ? Tasteless is a former pro gamer, brother of day9. Without guys like that a Starcraft 2 community which we have today would simply NOT exist.
Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I think casters probably shouldn't be talking about sex and using vulgarities. I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
I somewhat agree with your points especially number 1. His casting quality changed a lot since his days in BW in my opinion. He used to be more insightful, analytical and funny. =(
Honestly, I watch GSL to relax and have a laugh. If tastosis becomes like hockey/football/soccer commentators, then they lose personality and just turn into analyzing/casting machines, and alot of the reason I will watch GSL and Esports in general is because of the casters. No one remembers 'great' soccer commentators, and the only commentator outside of esports that is really famous (relative to the size of their industry) is Don Cherry and thats mostly because he HAS personality. I think for Esports to grow, you need to have a casting style that makes the viewer come back again and again, and I think that tastosis does that.
On June 12 2011 21:03 kidleader wrote: It's obvious to anyone with a critical mind that Tasteless doesn't play SC2 that much/as much because compared to his BW heyday, his game/build knowledge is lacking (this leaks into his commentary, hence the repetition, the 'he was so goooood'-style analysis). When he talks about BW during his GSL casts, we see the Tasteless of old, who was the complete package.
I love his unprofessional-ism and his jokes and with Artosis he is one half of the defining voice of Starcraft 2. That's why people care so much. Honestly, I don't think it's his fault. It's SC2.
Sadly, there's a distinct lack of critical minds in this thread!
Quoting for truth, as they say. Tasteless has very little actual SC2 knowledge, and it shows. In fact, if it wasn't Tasteless, it would piss me off. I would be surprised if it didn't bother Artosis a bit also.
Is Tasteless still an awesome person and a fairly entertaining caster? Yes.
Very little knowledge ? What the hell ? Tasteless is a former pro gamer, brother of day9. Without guys like that a Starcraft 2 community which we have today would simply NOT exist.
He has vast Brood War knowledge and I love both him and Day9. No question he's done great things for the community.
But can you deny he has very little SC2 knowledge? He says "good decision," "bad decision," as well as various repeats of things Artosis had just said or has said in the past.
It's a hard line to gauge, if they become more professional they will seem more detached with the fans but if they remain as relaxed as they are it might be harder for them to reach a larger audience with their casting.
Personally I think they could cut back on a few dirty jokes and things like that, but they should keep the playful relaxed tone and the friendliness.
You cast about 5 hours of content a week and sound fresh and different all the time. kthx.
That's the point of a good castor-_-. It's frustrating because veryfew understand the bw castors, but they've been casting for a good 10 years and even they don't sound repetitive. If you can't do that, you're just not good enough with language. Note that i've never complained about artosis, cuz he is NOT repetitive as a broken record.
In fact, repetitive is good in instances, like "SO MANY BANELINGS", cuz that's kinda artosis' trademark thing, and everyone (including me) love it.
But overusing the same diction over and over is like a bad essay that uses the same word a 100 times.
I think the major reason why Artosis and Tasteless are liked that much is because of the status they acquired with BW.
Sure they are not a bad team, but they are definitely not as good as some people pretend them to be. Their jokes are getting so repetitive that it's frankly becoming embarassing... the tasteless secret highway, the casting archon, the "so many banelings" and so on... Sure it's hard to comment every single day and have fresh jokes all the time, but no one is asking them to try to be funny all the time. And I also do not like when they are trying to act cool by telling what they like to eat, like in a Tarantino's movie ...
Although contrary to the OP, I don't believe that the show should aim at more mature people... I've no statistics but to me t's crystal clear that 95% of those interested in SC2 professional play are 14-26 years old, so you have to attract that audience rather than trying to increase the other 5%...
On June 13 2011 00:37 TeWy wrote: I think the major reason why Artosis and Tasteless are liked that much is because of the status they acquired with BW.
Doesn't make much sense as the scene grew tenfold from broodwar, meaning most of the viewers didn't watch them in a previous game. I think the reason they're so popular is because they got a laid back and funny yet analytical approach to the game, something very few manage to combine well.
You cast about 5 hours of content a week and sound fresh and different all the time. kthx.
That's the point of a good castor-_-. It's frustrating because veryfew understand the bw castors, but they've been casting for a good 10 years and even they don't sound repetitive. If you can't do that, you're just not good enough with language. Note that i've never complained about artosis, cuz he is NOT repetitive as a broken record.
In fact, repetitive is good in instances, like "SO MANY BANELINGS", cuz that's kinda artosis' trademark thing, and everyone (including me) love it.
But overusing the same diction over and over is like a bad essay that uses the same word a 100 times.
Every caster has some measure of repetitiveness, I agree, I've noticed it with Tasteless as of late but that's because he casts so fucking much.
As for everything else including the sex thing, it's been touched on already, this isn't Spongebob Squarepants, mentions of "sex" and other suggestive content are perfectly acceptable and age appropriation for the content of the foreign cast.
On June 13 2011 00:37 TeWy wrote: I think the major reason why Artosis and Tasteless are liked that much is because of the status they acquired with BW.
Sure they are not a bad team, but they are definitely not as good as some people pretend them to be. Their jokes are getting so repetitive that it's frankly becoming embarassing... the tasteless secret highway, the casting archon, the "so many banelings" and so on... And I also do not like when they are trying to act cool by telling what they like to eat, like in a Tarantino's movie ...
Although contrary to the OP, I don't believe that the show should aim at more mature people... I've no statistics but to me t's crystal clear that 95% of those interested in SC2 professional play are 14-26 years old, so you have to attract that audience rather than trying to increase the other 5%...
Thanks, i appreciate it.
But i do like tastosis' jokes. Im one of the few who only tuned into the super tournament when tastosis was there...
Except wolf is pretty good too. I just can't stand moletrap, to the point where i'm not watching the nestea vs bomber match, just cuz i can't listen to him.
On June 13 2011 00:50 ComaDose wrote: inexperienced? as a caster?!?!?!?! gtfo. my only advice for tasteless is keep being the biggest super nerd baler out there.
Thank you for focusing on a sentence of the op instead of commenting on the whole message it was conveying. The thought put into some posts never cease to amaze...
Overall however I just think the only thing holding Tastosis back is Tasteless' game knowledge. It's clear he doesn't play much, but then again, without Tasteless what is Tastosis? Artosis, that's what it is... (thought I had something going there but )
The thought i put into my post is years and years of watching tasteless being awesome. Im a huge fan boy and want to show my support. I know I couldn't do better as a caster. Also yeah i picked on the word inexperienced cause it makes no sense... the most experienced English caster?
On June 13 2011 00:50 ComaDose wrote: inexperienced? as a caster?!?!?!?! gtfo. my only advice for tasteless is keep being the biggest super nerd baler out there.
Thank you for focusing on a sentence of the op instead of commenting on the whole message it was conveying. The thought put into some posts never cease to amaze...
Overall however I just think the only thing holding Tastosis back is Tasteless' game knowledge. It's clear he doesn't play much, but then again, without Tasteless what is Tastosis? Artosis, that's what it is... (thought I had something going there but )
As a critic of tastless, i think that's ok. I actually think he needs to embrace his role more, which is being the caster. Artosis is the encyclopedia, he should be fine by himself.
I dunno about you guys, but lately tasteless has been TRYING to sound more knowledgable, and trying to talk about more of the advanced stuff. I dunno why he would feel in such a way, cuz i think it's better for him to embrace the role of being the color commentator.
On June 13 2011 01:05 MandoRelease wrote: Why create this kind of topic for tasteless and not for artosis ? I mean Artosis is the one who annoys me
Cuz artosis is awesome. Period.
He's got his flaws of course, but if i complain about them i would feel like im nitpicking. He has no real flaws that bugs me, and that's the point of this thread. If not broken, it doesn't need fixing. But some of the stuff tasteless does is a bit noticable.
Really though I am sick of people mentioning the whole "for ESPORTS!" thing. Now that is played out too much and sounds like a broken record. A big reason why I watch is because of how he and Artosis casts right now. Ever thought it might hurt "esports" if they were boring ass casters?
I respectfully disagree. Tasteless is practically my favourite half of the Tastosis Archon. (But which do you love more - Incredibly Awesome or Awesomely Incredible.) I really appreciate the down-to-earth aspect of his cast and find him a tonne more relate-able then some other casters. I appreciate your opinion but it is not mine.
He's got his flaws of course, but if i complain about them i would feel like im nitpicking. He has no real flaws that bugs me, and that's the point of this thread. If not broken, it doesn't need fixing. But some of the stuff tasteless does is a bit noticable.
If you only have artosis, you'll have 1 boring show. You cannot have 2 people spewing knowledge at you. The reason tastosis works so well is because they have chemistry. One spews knowledge while the other makes it enjoyable. I'd fall asleep if I was listening to 2 people analyzing the game. Pro sc2 is entertainment, not a college lecture. They both have flaws when they're solo. When they're together they're great.
Fwiw, Tasteless is actually the better half of the archon for me. Artosis gives me knowledge, tasteless gives me a good time (no homo). I'm watching sc2 to have a good time and to learn.
I completely disagree. They are amazing for the mix of qualities they offer, they have much more knowledge that the 90% of the casters out there, and tasteless of butter for the bread, he cut the seriously with amazing jokes that only he can make them funny. Maybe you don't like some of their qualities, and its ok, but you can't prettend them to be the way you like. Check every pool, they are the fan favorites.
I don't really agree with the OP. Especially with the "needs to be more professional". I like it when Tasteless and Artosis aren't too formal and talk pretty loosely, the way they have been talking thus far.
On June 12 2011 15:32 The.Imperator wrote: I think its just that Tasteless has lost his passion.
haha I love how Tastosis adressed this a couple days ago. Artosis did his little nerd voice saying "Tasteless you lost your passion" and Tasteless said "Yeah Tasteless why don't you spend 20 minutes screaming like you did 5 years ago before having surgery?!?!" (Didn't even know about this)
Tasteless is funny and an awesome baller nerd. He is just a human, and no one in this world is perfect, and since the GSL is LIVE mistakes will happen, and I could imagine talking 4 hours straight each night at the GSL would be pretty god damn hard. Would you be able to do it perfect? I don't think so.
Tasteless and Artosis, keep doing what you do, and please don't change anything about your cast just because some nerds want everything to be perfect and want everything in the world, and can't handle the word sex or naughty jokes
I love tastosis' casting. And I think one of the greatest things about it is that they clearly love it too! They really genuinely seem to love what they do, and love casting with each other. In terms of the cutting off, maybe it happens, but I don't think it bothers that many people. And Artosis never gives any indication that it bothers him. They've got a really good flow together and any change to them I believe would be a bad one.
This is one of those situation where 1% of a population gives the thumbs down and the other 99% gathers their pitch forks, flaming torches, and rally towards the 1%.
On June 12 2011 15:32 The.Imperator wrote: I think its just that Tasteless has lost his passion.
haha I love how Tastosis adressed this a couple days ago. Artosis did his little nerd voice saying "Tasteless you lost your passion" and Tasteless said "Yeah Tasteless why don't you spend 20 minutes screaming like you did 5 years ago before having surgery?!?!" (Didn't even know about this)
It's not about screaming and shouting, it's that he very obviously spends far less time playing, watching and following SC2 than he did BW and as a result his knowledge of the game, the players in it and the competitive scene as a whole are severely lacking in comparison.
He's as popular as he is now with what he is doing. While anyone can obviously improve, I think Tasteless does not have any critical flaws, and in fact I think that Tastosis are really good with interrupting each other, apologizing for them as well as generally knowing when to refrain from conversational tangents. Sure, he is not as knowledgeable as Artosis, but I think that is how their casting duo is intended to be structured.
You don't understand. The way Tastorsis work is one analyze the game and one make it fun for friendly viewers. Not that Tasteless doesn't understand the game, but that's his job to make jokes for us to entertain.
Only thing about tasteless I don't like is that he doesn't seem to take the game or casting as seriously as Artosis, but those two complement each other so well so it balances out.
They (mostly Tasteless) looked like a fish out of water at Columbus for a while and they are kind of in a cosy environment at the GSL where they aren't censored at all, afaik, which could reasonably lead to some complacency.
But ultimately if I had to choose any casters to listen to I would choose them. I don't really feel the need to have to someone constantly looking to analyse what players are doing like some casters do because I can often do it myself, and I think Nick and Dan really do point out the important stuff 9.9 times out of ten. As well as that, they are so much more entertaining than any caster combination I can name
Disagree with everything the OP said, the only thing I can think of to improve is his game-knowledge but since Artosis is his co-caster it's not really necessary. Tasteless is awesome.
so what I've figured out is that, tastosis can cast any two players in the entire world and i'll be entertained. but if day9 gets a hold of some high quality games between two players I really care about, he'll do a better job of getting me hyped than tastosis will.
Sigh, nothing good ever comes out of these threads. The poster puts forward some valid constructive criticism and the replies are mostly "bbbbbut i like tasteless, you are wrong". None of the replies actually adresses the points put forward by the poster, i think that they are all valid and hard to argue against. Whether or not you like tasteless dosnt really have anything with this thread to do, i love tasteless but that dosnt mean i need to hate on everyone and everything that is actually putting forward valid concerns towards him.
About the concerns, they are all related to professionalism, and GSL being the premiere esport production from a foreigner perspective, its hard to disagree with this. They are essentially the voice of the entire community and while i enjoy their bad jokes and the fact that they dont cencor themselves fully. I still understand that its something to look into, if someone is out to invest into the scene what they would look at is the current top dog (GSL), they might get put off by certain things. I dont know what sportscasters are like in USA, but i cant recall a sports commentator in europe talking about foot cramp being the flat tyre of sex, in the middle of a soccer game. While i am not offended by that, and i doubt most people are, it still might make people look past esport, due to not being professional enough.
TL:DR, love tasteless, you are awesome. Valid concerns to take into concideradion although i personally dont mind.
I agree with everyone disagreeing with the OP. Most of the points you make are either a) not relevant to what makes a successful cast or b) not actual problems.
If you want to be critical, then have a specific match in mind so you can be more helpful than just using some phrase that bothered you on a cast yesterday...
I've always thought Tastosis are not professional and way too repetitive. They always commentate in a joking style and use the word "like" frequently since they don't have the ability to do play-by-play with proper grammar. People like them not because they're professional nor good casters, but because of fanboyism. That's the way the community works.
To me, a true caster is the one that does play-by-play talk with a professional radio voice and language like that of TotalBiscuit or HDstarcraft. A commentator is the one who gives opinion about the game based on his knowledge, not biased like Artosis. For example, Poltprime executed his games against Alicia perfectly, but Artosis made it to be like they were cheesy and even recommended viewers not to watch those games. Just because your mom "Alicia" loses to Polt and Polt's past comment about Jinro, doesn't mean you have to downplay Polt that much when the "cheesier" player was always Alicia since he did sneaky voidrays and DT in early game all the time.
If I were GOMtv and Artosis recommends viewers not to watch their games, I would've fired Artosis for sure. What kind of employee recommend others not to buy his employer's product.
If this community prefers fanboyism over professionalism, then I don't think the foreign SC scene would go anywhere. Only being professional and hire professional casters and commentators would push the scene to a professional level. If you look at Korean caster and commentators and real sports castings in the US, they all have single caster with a radio voice and one or two non-biased commentators. Tastosis are super biased and nonprofessional. Just think about Clide, Alicia, Inca. Then think about BitByBit, Polt, TheBest.
Your job is to be professional and non-biased, not going after and praising someone's butt and spreading hates on the ones you don't like.
Tasteless was a lot better back when he was casting the avaratec intel classics for BW. Don't get me wrong, he is still very good, but back then he was amazing. He was so passionate about the game and was very knowledgeable about what every player was doing.
His knowledge base will probably increase as the game matures, but I would really like to see him get his old passion back.
We had a topic like this in the first season of the GSL, since then they've improved to the point we're they are perfectly fine. I would not have tasteless in any other way.
The only somewhat relevant point you make is not even explicitly stated as it should be. Yes, Tasteless could probably broaden his vocabulary. However, this is true for every single caster out there. It is not as easy as you think.
On June 13 2011 04:13 TDN wrote: People like them not because they're professional nor good casters, but because of fanboyism. That's the way the community works.
I watch SC2 for the entertainment value. Therefore, to me, a good caster is one that is entertaining. These two are very fun to listen to and watch, and therefore entertaining, and good casters.
Did you ever consider that the "fanboyism" resulted from them being so entertaining, not the other way around?
If its anything he should learn.. its to stop saying "expect gg any moment".. "this game is over" and all similar lines. I cant believe he still says its..
Last gsl (not the supertournament) I tuned into the finals just to hear "this is gg". Turned off the stream again and played ladder.. Im raging so hard everytime I hear it..
For the love of god.. Good players can see for them selves when its GG.. Bad players dont want to hear its gg. They are there for the excitement. And saying "this game is over" pretty much kills ANY excitement.... even if its obviously gg.
Totalbiscuit wrote a long post on reddit explaining it a lot better than I can ever do.
On June 13 2011 04:13 TDN wrote: I've always thought Tastosis are not professional and way too repetitive. They always commentate in a joking style and use the word "like" frequently since they don't have the ability to do play-by-play with proper grammar. People like them not because they're professional nor good casters, but because of fanboyism. That's the way the community works.
To me, a true caster is the one that does play-by-play talk with a professional radio voice and language like that of TotalBiscuit or HDstarcraft. A commentator is the one who gives opinion about the game based on his knowledge, not biased like Artosis. For example, Poltprime executed his games against Alicia perfectly, but Artosis made it to be like they were cheesy and even recommended viewers not to watch those games. Just because your mom "Alicia" loses to Polt and Polt's past comment about Jinro, doesn't mean you have to downplay Polt that much when the "cheesier" player was always Alicia since he did sneaky voidrays and DT in early game all the time.
If I were GOMtv and Artosis recommends viewers not to watch their games, I would've fired Artosis for sure. What kind of employee recommend others not to buy his employer's product.
If this community prefers fanboyism over professionalism, then I don't think the foreign SC scene would go anywhere. Only being professional and hire professional casters and commentators would push the scene to a professional level. If you look at Korean caster and commentators and real sports castings in the US, they all have single caster with a radio voice and one or two non-biased commentators. Tastosis are super biased and nonprofessional. Just think about Clide, Alicia, Inca. Then think about BitByBit, Polt, TheBest.
Your job is to be professional and non-biased, not going after and praising someone's butt and spreading hates on the ones you don't like.
Tasteless and Artosis love the game and try to make us love it too. i don't care if they have their favorites, i just want to see passionates guys talking about their passion (the game). We are watching gsl to have fun and some exciting moments, not to be bored by looking at 2 serious guys casting some serious content imho. They make mistakes for sure, but who doesn't?
On June 13 2011 04:13 TDN wrote: I've always thought Tastosis are not professional and way too repetitive. They always commentate in a joking style and use the word "like" frequently since they don't have the ability to do play-by-play with proper grammar. People like them not because they're professional nor good casters, but because of fanboyism. That's the way the community works.
To me, a true caster is the one that does play-by-play talk with a professional radio voice and language like that of TotalBiscuit or HDstarcraft. A commentator is the one who gives opinion about the game based on his knowledge, not biased like Artosis. For example, Poltprime executed his games against Alicia perfectly, but Artosis made it to be like they were cheesy and even recommended viewers not to watch those games. Just because your mom "Alicia" loses to Polt and Polt's past comment about Jinro, doesn't mean you have to downplay Polt that much when the "cheesier" player was always Alicia since he did sneaky voidrays and DT in early game all the time.
If I were GOMtv and Artosis recommends viewers not to watch their games, I would've fired Artosis for sure. What kind of employee recommend others not to buy his employer's product.
If this community prefers fanboyism over professionalism, then I don't think the foreign SC scene would go anywhere. Only being professional and hire professional casters and commentators would push the scene to a professional level. If you look at Korean caster and commentators and real sports castings in the US, they all have single caster with a radio voice and one or two non-biased commentators. Tastosis are super biased and nonprofessional. Just think about Clide, Alicia, Inca. Then think about BitByBit, Polt, TheBest.
Your job is to be professional and non-biased, not going after and praising someone's butt and spreading hates on the ones you don't like.
This is when my PBU alarm went off. Why am I not surprised it was accurate?
Tasteless is the second best caster in the world behind Artosis. Using other sports as a way Starcraft casting should be is a terrible idea. Nobody ever actually listens to other sports commentators because they are so damn boring.
Man Tastlesess solocasting, season 2 with LilSusie then season 3 with SuperDanielMan, I've seen it all, it's AMAZING! Just search 'GSI' IF anything I'd hope he cuts down on smoking, to preserve his voice as commentator of ALL the most epic SC2 (SC3?) games for at least the next decade!
On June 13 2011 04:38 uSnAmplified wrote: Tasteless is amazing as is, if anything we need more insight on tasteless ladder games and how he is stealing nerds ladder points.
This.
He really needs to start telling us again on how he steals nerds points on the ladder.
Also I want to hear a lot more on how Artosis plays custom games with this pro gamers friends.
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
What exactly makes you think that your opinions on Tasteless' casting qualify as "facts"?
I'd hate to sound like a fanboy but I don't think there is anything wrong with the way Tasteless casts. I think the last thing that eSports should be worrying about is people getting butthurt over using the word "sex". This isn't the fucking Victorian Era. On the note of his relaxed demeanor, other casters that I've seen such as Wheat, Husky, Moletrap, and Doa may sound more excited but they aren't actually saying ANYTHING AT ALL. Tasteless does more than just tell me literally everything I see on the screen in a series of nasally shouts. He casts calmly, collectedly, with focus on the things that I should be hearing as a viewer, not just the things I can obviously see for myself. He also does it very humorously, which is a great plus, and if you ask me he also casts quite intelligently with actually very good diction. He uses a lot of words that I never hear commonly used but work great in context. However, he is also able to realize when a simple "good" is in order; nothing is more annoying than listening to someone who thinks they are good at speaking when in reality they are just churning through a rather limited minithesaurus in their head every time they are worried they might - god forbid - repeat a word or phrase. I love his calm style, and the fact that him and Artosis work so well together, despite occasional interruptions which will naturally happen in dual casts, is great for spectating. The Archon isn't perfect, each one has little flaws, but overall they are doing a great job and honestly don't need to change any sort of overt factor in their casting, they'll just continue improving as they continue working. Imo.
And for those who says Tasteless has lost his passion for Starcraft. Maybe, probably not. It's just damned hard to look like a Starcraft enthusiast next to Artosis lol.
On June 13 2011 04:38 uSnAmplified wrote: Tasteless is amazing as is, if anything we need more insight on tasteless ladder games and how he is stealing nerds ladder points.
This.
He really needs to start telling us again on how he steals nerds points on the ladder.
Also I want to hear a lot more on how Artosis plays custom games with this pro gamers friends.
Those jokes never got old
Easily my favorite part. One of my friends and myself make ladder point jokes sometimes. They're like chuck norris jokes, but better!
Tasteless is a fun guy but his SC2 commentary is weak and a major weak point to me. It's like he pigeon hole'd himself to be really bare bones and basic for the "nubs" and often sounds like a broken record. If his SC2 knowledge was as good as others like Artosis, Day9, Gretorp, Incontrol etc than their casts will be a lot more interesting, to an already dynamic duo. I would say the Archon would be perfect! So instead of always resorting to recycled stale jokes & often really generalized statements about the game like "He is so good", "That game was so good", "He plays a lot different than other players" to kill dead air time, he can actually go in-depth with what he means and maybe even argue with Artosis about the game every once in awhile. Maybe then he wouldn't stutter "uh" a lot when trying to analyze something within the game.
The excessive premature gg's also have to go. It's annoying and only adds negativity to the cast, especially when the player makes a comeback. Other than that, everything else is great. His positives definitely makes up for his weaknesses though, and mostly because Artosis is there. They really do make a good pairing but there is some room for improvement.
I love Tasteless, I'm not watching his commentary so that I can become a better player, I'll watch replays for that.. I watch to be entertained, and he's fucking hilarious, I don't care what the naysayers think. He's a genius, and he plays off of Artosis perfectly. He is a true baller of the TL community, and if you think you have some major criticism then go become a caster and take his job. Here's a pro tip, you won't be able to, and neither will anyone else, because Tasteless is irreplaceable.
All criticism for Tasteless, Artosis, Day9, and several others depending on the day, are sucked up into the black hole of awesome that surrounds them. And that's all I have to say about that.
On June 13 2011 07:21 Endymion wrote: I love Tasteless, I'm not watching his commentary so that I can become a better player, I'll watch replays for that.. I watch to be entertained, and he's fucking hilarious, I don't care what the naysayers think. He's a genius, and he plays off of Artosis perfectly. He is a true baller of the TL community, and if you think you have some major criticism then go become a caster and take his job. Here's a pro tip, you won't be able to, and neither will anyone else, because Tasteless is irreplaceable.
Don't act like a caster can't improve some aspects of his casting without still being a funny guy, off-topic, or entertaining. No one is saying for him to change to a MrBitter analytical commentator.
On June 13 2011 07:16 Hokay wrote: Tasteless is a fun guy but his SC2 commentary is weak and a major weak point to me. It's like he pigeon hole'd himself to be really bare bones and basic for the "nubs" and often sounds like a broken record. If his SC2 knowledge was as good as others like Artosis, Day9, Gretorp, Incontrol etc than their casts will be a lot more interesting, to an already dynamic duo. I would say the Archon would be perfect! So instead of always resorting to recycled stale jokes & often really generalized statements about the game like "He is so good", "That game was so good", "He plays a lot different than other players" to kill dead air time, he can actually go in-depth with what he means and maybe even argue with Artosis about the game every once in awhile. Maybe he wouldn't stutter "uh" a million times when trying to explain something as well.
The excessive premature gg's also have to go. It's annoying and only adds negativity to the cast, especially when the player makes a comeback.
Totally agree with everything said here. Sometimes I wonder if he's even really watching the game or if he's too worried about thinking of something witty to say. For example, the last time I wached GSL live a few days ago during the Alicia vs Polt match, a probe was harassing the scv building the first barracks. Polt did a good job switching off building scvs so as to not lose ANY scvs to the probe. But all I could hear in the background was Tasteless commenting on how the probe had two or three kills and was really messing Polt up...wtf? In reality he did hardly any damage at all. The knee to the groin was the third or fourth time Tasteless mentioned how many kills the probe had, the observer clicked on the probe to see it had a whopping zero kills.
I've always been a huge fan of Tastetosis but that last GSL cast I saw/heard just really irked me... Thankfully Artosis has been consistently awesome imo.
Inexperienced? He's been casting StarCraft since before most people gave a crap about StarCraft.
If you watch old BW games commentated by Tastosis its very different. They changed their style for the GSL to be more of a balanced casting duo, with one providing the analysis and the other focusing more on just being entertaining. It works perfectly.
I disagree completely with everything that the OP said. E-sports has a very different culture and you can't try to change it to be just like other sports or you will lose your primary audience - the gamers themselves. This professionalism argument is weak at best and many of the big personalities in the scene have had heated discussions over it recently.
On Tasteless as a caster, I think he's a perfectly good caster. While not as good as Day9, DJWheat, Artosis, or MrBitter, he's definitely better than Gretorp/InControl and the other random people that cast various tournaments. The one sad thing to note is that being a BW fan for so long, I watched him cast BW for quite a while, and it's pretty noticeable that he 1) doesn't have the knowledge of SC2 that he did of BW and 2) he doesn't quite have the passion for SC2 that he did for BW.
A lot of sensitive people on here. Tasteless is a big boy, he can take some constructive criticism, which is what this is. I love Tasteless, but I think he would probably agree with most of the points in the op and probably thank him for the advice. I'm guessing Tasteless is a goal oriented person who wants to improve his craft. Lighten up people.
Tasteless is always explaining things for noobs in his casts, talking about bringing people into starcraft to watch the gsl, hashtag on twitter. So wouldn't it make sense that he would want to appeal to as broad an audience as possible? Appearing professional, comical, while not being even slightly offensive. When he tells you to bring your parents to watch, don't you think that is how he wants to appear to them? Like I said, I think he would appreciate the insight as it's sometimes hard to see every point of view.
I don't know. If anything I was more uncomfortable with Artosis' biased commentaries than anything Tastless does. Tastless is much more "professional" in that regard keeping the balance and Artosis from going idra mode. Artosis has much matured in that regard as of late, though, so I do not have a problem with either of them nowadays.
I think the original poster was motivated the "sex" comment that popped out during Alicia-Polt match. (Maybe he was watching with his kids or something?) Need to relax a little bit there. It's a fleeting moment and no one is perfect. If they keep talking about sex for 5 minutes or every other game then that's a problem but I did not think it's offensive in any way, shape or form.
And if anything Artosis shuts off Tastless much more often than vice versa. I think the OP has got things backward there.
I would like to compare this to the NBA finals that we are watching (or at least I am.) There are three commentators, so this isn't the perfect example, but it makes enough sense to grasp the concept. Mike Breen, Mark Jackson, and Jeff Van Gundy.
Now, these guys are pretty damn good at what they do. They each have assigned roles on what to talk about. As Mike Breen is talking about the play-by-play (Lebron passes to Dwayne. Bosh cuts in and dives into the lane! What a dunk!), Mark Jackson is more of an analyst (Dwyane Wade is a special player. The way he brings in defenders leaves guys like Chris Bosh to go in for the dunk. What an emphatic play.) And there is Jeff Van Gundy, the "conversation starter" (Dirk is now a household name. You ask around to Brazil, China, or anywhere. Ask them about Dirk, and they'll know you're talking about Nowitzki.)
These guys know the game inside out, and know the players well enough to bring character to the commentating. I am interested in what they're saying, and it's entertaining for me to watch these guys talk to each other about the game.
Artosis and Tasteless are the casting duo of Starcraft 2 for GOM. Artosis is clearly the analytical player who brings insight, and Tasteless is the color commentator that brings in more conversation to the table. I find Tasteless' lack of knowledge about the game to be dissatisfying, or the perception of the knowledge he has seems inadequate. He's a color commentator. Why is Artosis the one talking more about the Player bio's? Why is Artosis the one bringing in way more interesting information about the game itself, while Tasteless is sitting back, just bouncing off of Artosis' commentary?
Where is the personality that everyone seems to love? He tries to bring in jokes that aren't funny, he has the same reaction for everything that happens in the game, and he has filler that would be way better implemented if he was actually talking about the players.
I see something completely different from other people I guess.
On June 12 2011 17:48 Axiom0 wrote: Does anyone know the full sex joke Tasteless made and the context he made it in? Just curious because I can't imagine him fitting a joke about sex into a SC2 cast without it being slightly odd/inappropriate.
They were doing their usual tastosis banter in the early stages of a game, and the topic of cramps came up, and tasteless said something like "You ever get a foot cramp during sex? That's like the flat tire of sex".
I am so astonished that anyone would actually be offended by this. Unbelievable.
I'm not offended by that joke, but I could see how someone would find it inappropriate for the setting.
I think it's probably best that he avoids this in the future. The quality of his casting will be in no way diminished if he doesn't make such jokes, but his employers might not like him saying stuff like that on air. But I'm sure he knows the full ramifications of acting in a so called "unprofessional" way so it's not like we all need to criticize him for doing so.
You do realize that every bodies opinion is just that an opinion it's 100% subjective so if everyone opened up a thread about how they felt about caster's we would need a whole other website. There is no objective marking criteria or anything that you can measure Tasteless on or them as a duo or anything so just take what they do for what it is they don't read this stuff anyway.
Also, I reluctantly watch only the big games Day9 casts despite his deep knowledge, analysis or what not. I can't stand his over exaggeration, artificial enthusiasm, and generally annoying non-stop gibberish that induces headache. Knowledge itself doesn't a good caster make.
OP has good points, but much of the criticism is outweighed by the memorable joking and sound bytes. If they both become straight-laced there won't be any new memes or humor about their loose ties to the game.
Offering Tasteless constructive criticism is funny considering he is the first real successful English commentator ever. I mean what is the standard of casting if not Tasteless, he was the first he really revolutionized casting in my mind. I don't want a professional I want to be entertained and hear about that one time that Tasteless stole some kid's ladder points.
On June 13 2011 08:40 Incursus wrote: Offering Tasteless constructive criticism is funny considering he is the first real successful English commentator ever. I mean what is the standard of casting if not Tasteless, he was the first he really revolutionized casting in my mind. I don't want a professional I want to be entertained and hear about that one time that Tasteless stole some kid's ladder points.
'tis a sad day when someone says Tasteless is the standard of casting... The one who REVOLUTIONIZED casting.
Actually he's better than any professional sports casters I've ever heard.. if just purely based on humour and charisma.. its just a good caster, nice guy and funny bastard all rolled into one.. plus add on the next best caster in the game.. plus add on the fact they've got great chemistry.. unbeatable.. light years ahead of the best professional casters I've heard on TV
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
Seems like a dilemma for casters, since Gretorp seems to cast about for synonyms just for the sake of variety and he gets called on it (although a lot of the time the words he uses are just wrong)
This has to be one of the more subtle troll threads, just enough to evade TL's notorious moderation. Well played OP.
Now, to cover my own ass from the moderation, I will play ball and presume it is infact a genuine post and not a troll:
Tasteless and Artosis compliment eachother's casting flawlessly. Tasteless is to Artosis' Ying, what Artosis is to Tasteless's Yang. They click. So well infact they are known as the Casting Archon, the ultimate unifcation of two beings into one. So to sum it up, I disagree strongly.
On June 13 2011 08:23 lyk503 wrote: I would like to compare this to the NBA finals that we are watching (or at least I am.) There are three commentators, so this isn't the perfect example, but it makes enough sense to grasp the concept. Mike Breen, Mark Jackson, and Jeff Van Gundy.
Now, these guys are pretty damn good at what they do. They each have assigned roles on what to talk about. As Mike Breen is talking about the play-by-play (Lebron passes to Dwayne. Bosh cuts in and dives into the lane! What a dunk!), Mark Jackson is more of an analyst (Dwyane Wade is a special player. The way he brings in defenders leaves guys like Chris Bosh to go in for the dunk. What an emphatic play.) And there is Jeff Van Gundy, the "conversation starter" (Dirk is now a household name. You ask around to Brazil, China, or anywhere. Ask them about Dirk, and they'll know you're talking about Nowitzki.)
These guys know the game inside out, and know the players well enough to bring character to the commentating. I am interested in what they're saying, and it's entertaining for me to watch these guys talk to each other about the game.
Artosis and Tasteless are the casting duo of Starcraft 2 for GOM. Artosis is clearly the analytical player who brings insight, and Tasteless is the color commentator that brings in more conversation to the table. I find Tasteless' lack of knowledge about the game to be dissatisfying, or the perception of the knowledge he has seems inadequate. He's a color commentator. Why is Artosis the one talking more about the Player bio's? Why is Artosis the one bringing in way more interesting information about the game itself, while Tasteless is sitting back, just bouncing off of Artosis' commentary?
Where is the personality that everyone seems to love? He tries to bring in jokes that aren't funny, he has the same reaction for everything that happens in the game, and he has filler that would be way better implemented if he was actually talking about the players.
I see something completely different from other people I guess.
I respectfully disagree, I think his jokes are quite funny, his commentary and responses to Artosis are pretty hilarious, his analysis of the game is pretty adequate, he talks about the players enough, but trades this off with Artosis and he fills in the blanks for Artosis pretty well.
i just think that tasteless needs to learn more about starcraft 2. a lot of times it just seems like he doesnt know what he is talking about. whenever he talks its always something general about a player or build. he doesnt seem to really know much about high level play.
While Tasteless uses a clearly different casting than Artosis, one thats a fair bit more colloquial, he shows incredible insight during very important parts of the game. Hell, when he took over observation duties during the recent ZeNEXLine vs oGsTop matches, his manner of observing even spoke to a very dynamic, thorough understanding of the game. Plus, his great nerd background knowledge makes for a strong appeal amongst your typical sc2 viewers.
I don't agree, and, actually, I hate Artosis's casting instead for sounding cocky and interrupting Tasteless. Oftentimes Artosis will try to make Tasteless sound like he's gloating. For example, "no one's better at laddering than you, Tasteless". I know it's sarcasm, but he does this so much.
Artosis also has the habit of adding "Tasteless" at the end of every other sentence. It sounds cocky. It sounds like he's talking to a child. "That is quite true, Tasteless." "Indeed that is true, Tasteless." "And that will do a lot of damage, Tasteless." "You know, Tasteless, ...." He does this way more frequently than other casters.
I do hear Tasteless giving analysis on the game, but Artosis' demeanor and Tasteless' humility can exaggerate the perception that "Artosis is so smart about SC2" and "Tasteless doesn't know what he's talking about".
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
Pretty much this. Tasteless knows what he's doing and he's awesome at it.
On June 13 2011 12:22 men1kmati wrote: i just think that tasteless needs to learn more about starcraft 2. a lot of times it just seems like he doesnt know what he is talking about. whenever he talks its always something general about a player or build. he doesnt seem to really know much about high level play.
I really don't know how someone can say this seriously
Remember that Tasteless has to move the camera and cast off of only that while Artosis gets to zip around and see everything with high APM. I remember one match when Artosis was forced to be on camera due to technical difficulties during the match; all of a sudden Tasteless was going into detail about the builds and what was going on while Artosis sounded more like Tasteless but with worse camera skills.
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
you just got your nod on the gsl! you're famous now!
Don't agree with the cutting Artosis off part because the other day on GSL Artosis cut him off like every other sentence, that may happen sometimes but I seem to always remember that's Artosis that does that the most. Doesn't bother me though, not many casters like either of those guys so I wont try to critique what they have going for them.
Come on Peanut_t, everyone has a right to their own opinion, replies like that is just silly.
I dont agree with the OP here though, they both have their roll and fullfill eachother perfectly, with all the entertainement they are bringing us, some few hick ups are forgiven, atleast by me. That being said, im a tad surprised of how "nice" this thread has been so far, I was expecting all sorts of nerdrage and back and forth sillyness, but its been pretty siviliced compared to some other threads ^^
Keep at it Tasteless, you are the manliest man aliiiiiive <3
Artosis is actually the better caster, people just assume it's tasteless because he did SC1. Tasteless mostly repeats what Artosis says, still he's entertaining and the duo work well - but it would suck without Artosis.
I agree that maybe tasteless should abandon the "sex" thing because like it or not they are the face of starcraft 2 on the foreign scene and we want starcraft 2 to go mainstream. Some elitist nerds out there may not want sc2 to go mainstream but seriously becoming mainstream means better games, bigger tournaments and probably even live tv for sc2?(finger crossed).
That being said i am a big fan of tartosis , I know its not easy taking a somewhat unorthodox profession in life to do the things that you love keep up the good work!.
On June 13 2011 14:13 julianto wrote: I don't agree, and, actually, I hate Artosis's casting instead for sounding cocky and interrupting Tasteless. Oftentimes Artosis will try to make Tasteless sound like he's gloating. For example, "no one's better at laddering than you, Tasteless". I know it's sarcasm, but he does this so much.
Artosis also has the habit of adding "Tasteless" at the end of every other sentence. It sounds cocky. It sounds like he's talking to a child. "That is quite true, Tasteless." "Indeed that is true, Tasteless." "And that will do a lot of damage, Tasteless." "You know, Tasteless, ...." He does this way more frequently than other casters.
I do hear Tasteless giving analysis on the game, but Artosis' demeanor and Tasteless' humility can exaggerate the perception that "Artosis is so smart about SC2" and "Tasteless doesn't know what he's talking about".
You do realize that adding the name is meant to indicate that he's done talking, right?
Artosis for me personally is by far the best caster currently. Nobody gets this genuinely excited as he does and is as hilarious at it at the same time.
Who actually gets offended by the mention of sex? We're not talking about rape ... has anyone in the last 10 years who contributed anything to the advancement of society ever been offended by sex? There's a group of people on here who think someone is being offended somewhere. IMO, if anyone does get offended by sex, they aren't playing SC2/watching video game streams and are probably locked up in a secluded sect somewhere.
If you have kids and don't want them hearing about sex ... well anyone under 13 shouldn't be playing SC2 anyways... and if you're worried about anyone over 13 hearing about sex, you fail as a parent and as a person.
I feel constructive criticism is fine to mention in a thread. IF these are areas that can be improved upon Tasteless might try to make a concious effort to improve in these areas. I personally have not noticed this but I haven't really looked for it either.
To the OP, maybe to strengthen your case you could point to specific VOD's that would show what you're talking about.
Also, I remember hearing Tasteless say he stays away from the TL forums. I skimmed through this thread so if anything above does not hold true please don't hurt me ^^
i don't listen to Nick and Dan to hear a boring play by play i listen to them because they are entertaining, with other commentators i will only watch matches that involve my race (Zerg), however with Tasteless and Artosis i find myself listening to almost everything they cast... and do you wanna know why! because they are very entertaining to listen to! So i wouldn't give any criticism to tasteless he should the poster boy for all casters to follow and aspire to be!
I don't find repetition all that bad to be honest. It's just what he is comfortable with and it does aptly describe what he is attempting to portray to the audience. Moreover it is what Tasteless as a commentator is comfortable with.
On the topic of "Tasteless interrupting Artosis" thing is a bit unfounded. It is evident that an event occurred where you believe Artosis was saying something important and then Tasteless interrupted him with something less important. Well if that is truly the case than nothing stopped Artosis from continuing. So if anything it's Artosis's fault for not simply continuing to convey his thought to the audience.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster? (inexperienced as in, making rookie mistakes, not his actual experience) I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously? **THIS DOES NOT MEAN he should stop fooling around and start casting seriously. the Lax casting is a part of his charm, for the billionth time i've mentioned. Needing more professionalism DOESNT mean they need to stop being hilarious.
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
I'm a huge fan of Tastosis and i agree with most of the OP. There is room to improve, repeating some catchy phrases over and over again and cutting off with irrelevant comment happens to every caster, but i also noticed it on regular basis with Tasteless. Anyway <3 Nick
Who actually gets offended by the mention of sex?
People get offended by NOT typing GG... (also learn to fucking read, OP didn't say that it's offensive to anyone. God please learn to read.)
I hate to beat a dead horse as well... but I also totally disagree with with the entirety of the OP. I'm not sure why some people are so insistent on having eSports = Sports. I for one would stop watching eSports if they were treated exactly the way modern sports are treated..... eSports has a different charm, we should embrace that. Tasteless is far from vulgar when he's commentating.... he can get a bit edgy, but he definitely is still rather tame and enhances broadcasts with his charm and easy going nature. He's the perfect match for Artosis, who uses his intensity and knowledge to bring matches to life.
I enjoy how you can tell Tasteless and Artosis are real life friends off-camera. They finish each others sentences and understand one another's humor. This is a complete dichotomy to Incontrol and Gretorp in the NASL which, I think we can all agree, is several notches below Tastosis.
Rofl, why does this thread have 23 pages.. ? When OP is clearly a troll or just the typical idiot with a rod up his ass that has to argue everything. The fu*k cares how tasteless acts, theres a reason he's so poppular bro.
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
This isnt facts, this is just you ranting about some guy you apperantly dislike.
tosis and tasteless are the last 2 persons in the sc2 scene that need to change.
On June 14 2011 02:02 Liight wrote: Rofl, why does this thread have 23 pages.. ? When OP is clearly a troll or just the typical idiot with a rod up his ass that has to argue everything. The fu*k cares how tasteless acts, theres a reason he's so poppular bro.
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
This isnt facts, this is just you ranting about some guy you apperantly dislike.
tosis and tasteless are the last 2 persons in the sc2 scene that need to change.
how are you not doing anything but ranting and being much more bitchy and childish than the OP
I haven't watched a lot of GSL - only the few matches I've managed to catch live. But I watched a lot of Tastosis during MLG and I didn't notice any of the things the OP mentions.
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
I think there are a few important reasons why esports has yet to be taken seriously as something to be enjoyed by all people of all ages, but Tasteless' casting style is not among them. Tasteless' casting will evolve as he gets older and more experienced, and as his audience widens, but I think the hardest part is still convincing people that SC2 isn't just for awkward teenage boys.
Marines are getting slaughtered everywhere! A big pile of blood and gore is all that's left from them, meanwhile a banshee is killing all the workers! Violence! Bullets! Bodies!
this is not:
the caster used the word sex
Some people are just weird. What the hell is wrong with the word sex lol. Is this still the victorian age?
Why does the NFL exclude all of the rest of the world from watching? The rest of the world like football (soccer), but the NFL is only football (hand egg?). The NFL should actually be soccer, so that the rest of the world can enjoy it as well.
i dont understand why it is everytime some guy from US who complains about bad language...
never (or mostly never) these people come from EU or Asia. the prude/sexism/double moral standards of US are a common cliche, there is no need to proof it every two weeks.
On June 14 2011 02:02 Liight wrote: Rofl, why does this thread have 23 pages.. ? When OP is clearly a troll or just the typical idiot with a rod up his ass that has to argue everything. The fu*k cares how tasteless acts, theres a reason he's so poppular bro.
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
This isnt facts, this is just you ranting about some guy you apperantly dislike.
tosis and tasteless are the last 2 persons in the sc2 scene that need to change.
how are you not doing anything but ranting and being much more bitchy and childish than the OP
I'm 'rating' at his 'rant' because its pointless and just another useless discussion created by some inbred who apperantly gets upset by everything. Saying that tasteless out of all casters is unproffessional then point out that he's not a caster like Artosis because he overuses words like "good" and "cool" This isnt constructive at all, just some minor thing that upset the OP and he wanted to whine about it, sorta like the whole drama about incontrol saying "rape" on stream.
Like really ? keep your useless opinion to yourself bro.
Marines are getting slaughtered everywhere! A big pile of blood and gore is all that's left from them, meanwhile a banshee is killing all the workers! Violence! Bullets! Bodies!
this is not:
the caster used the word sex
This is a good point that Zandar mentioned above. Noone cares about the violence etc. in the video games but god forbid that a shoutcaster uses a "dirty" word like Sex/raped and such other things, people act all hysterical about so useless things that posts like these make die alittle inside.
I must not be paying attention since every single kid that dosnt hear a curse word in his childhood grows up to be the president of his country, right?
i think the mentality that something u like cannot have flaws or atleast u're not able to admit them in this topic is hilarious. if i didn't know better i might think tasteless was some kid who can't handle anything based on this topic with all these people overdefending and unable to squeeze even 1% objectivity in their viewpoint.
I don't understand why people get so upset when casters say the same things that everyone else does and are relaxed and cool about it.
This reminds me of the Dj Wheat thing where he said "What's up bitches" or something to that extent.
I for one actually enjoy the casts more when the casters are joking and having a great time. IMO, they can say whatever they want, just provide me with some good commentary while doing it.
On June 14 2011 03:26 k!llua wrote: tastosis casting top/polt's game on gsl earlier tonight on XNC.
battle going on at polt's natural i think.
artosis starts going on about some banshee that's in production.
someone on vent worded it very succinctly - "that's nice, we can see that by looking at the top left, do they wanna focus on the battle now?"
Lol, you can see the battle as long as the observer is paying attention to it.. whats your point?
As for the thread: Tasteless is awesome is he is.. :D In the slight chance that he reads this: Keep up the awesome work!
we might be able to see the battle, but it'd be nice for them to talk about the battle more often instead of talking about irrelevant crap.
it's their job. why do you think they hire casters in the first place, if an observer following the action in-game is all that's needed?
don't get me wrong, tastosis is fine most of the time. just last night they seemed exceptionally goofy, which is a bit weird for a semi-final of such a massive tournament.
Tastosis is by far my favorite casting duo. The "unprofessionalism" (and I hesitate to use that term) is a huge part of their charm. Artosis clearly serves his role as the analyzer, and Tasteless keeps it fresh. He has a good enough understanding of the game to do what he needs to do.
As far as trying to get them to conform to what we would consider broadcasting standards: don't. I'd rather watch two friends sit around and make jokes while casting a game than watch two robots tell me what I can already discern, followed by an impassioned analysis.
On June 14 2011 04:14 HackBenjamin wrote: Disagree completely with the OP.
Tastosis is by far my favorite casting duo. The "unprofessionalism" (and I hesitate to use that term) is a huge part of their charm. Artosis clearly serves his role as the analyzer, and Tasteless keeps it fresh. He has a good enough understanding of the game to do what he needs to do.
As far as trying to get them to conform to what we would consider broadcasting standards: don't. I'd rather watch two friends sit around and make jokes while casting a game than watch two robots tell me what I can already discern, followed by an impassioned analysis.
Why is it always one or the other? Is it that impossible to be a bit more professional yet still keep it fun and relaxed? So tired of the "don't change anything cause then Tastosis will become a casting robot devoid of emotion". That's not what anyone wants and using that argument is meaningless.
Why is it always one or the other? Is it that impossible to be a bit more professional yet still keep it fun and relaxed? So tired of the "don't change anything cause then Tastosis will become a casting robot devoid of emotion". That's not what anyone wants and using that argument is meaningless.
How about the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" argument? I'm not trying to imply that becoming more professional will rob them of emotion. I'm just saying that the current formula works just fine, and if you start messing with it, you run the risk of ruining something that works well the way it is. If MLG Columbus had replaced Day[9] and djWHEAT with Moletrap and Doa, which stream would you be more inclined to watch? Moletrap and Doa were a decent casting duo, very professional etc., but the way that Tastosis presents their casts certainly seems a lot more entertaining as is.
Why is it always one or the other? Is it that impossible to be a bit more professional yet still keep it fun and relaxed? So tired of the "don't change anything cause then Tastosis will become a casting robot devoid of emotion". That's not what anyone wants and using that argument is meaningless.
How about the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" argument? I'm not trying to imply that becoming more professional will rob them of emotion. I'm just saying that the current formula works just fine, and if you start messing with it, you run the risk of ruining something that works well the way it is. If MLG Columbus had replaced Day[9] and djWHEAT with Moletrap and Doa, which stream would you be more inclined to watch? Moletrap and Doa were a decent casting duo, very professional etc., but the way that Tastosis presents their casts certainly seems a lot more entertaining as is.
There's a difference between wanting them to change their core casting style and wanting small improvements. I really don't get why people are so extremely defensive about stuff like this. I love their casts but there's room for improvement and the casts could be even better with some constructive feedback. Not saying this thread is the right way to approach the whole thing though.
On June 14 2011 04:39 karpo wrote: There's a difference between wanting them to change their core casting style and wanting small improvements. I really don't get why people are so extremely defensive about stuff like this. I love their casts but there's room for improvement and the casts could be even better with some constructive feedback. Not saying this thread is the right way to approach the whole thing though.
Why is it always one or the other? Is it that impossible to be a bit more professional yet still keep it fun and relaxed? So tired of the "don't change anything cause then Tastosis will become a casting robot devoid of emotion". That's not what anyone wants and using that argument is meaningless.
How about the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" argument? I'm not trying to imply that becoming more professional will rob them of emotion. I'm just saying that the current formula works just fine, and if you start messing with it, you run the risk of ruining something that works well the way it is. If MLG Columbus had replaced Day[9] and djWHEAT with Moletrap and Doa, which stream would you be more inclined to watch? Moletrap and Doa were a decent casting duo, very professional etc., but the way that Tastosis presents their casts certainly seems a lot more entertaining as is.
There's a difference between wanting them to change their core casting style and wanting small improvements. I really don't get why people are so extremely defensive about stuff like this. I love their casts but there's room for improvement and the casts could be even better with some constructive feedback. Not saying this thread is the right way to approach the whole thing though.
Because they don't think the "improvements" suggested are really improvements? Or that they aren't necessary, he's voicing his criticism, people are disagreeing with his criticism, pretty standard stuff.
I have actually noticed nothing wrong in regards to interruptions, Tasteless is the color commentator so the game knowledge this isn't an issue to me, repetition is something every single caster suffers from, regardless of how good Tasteless becomes if he's casting as many hours as he is, there would be repetition. As for the "sex" thing, I've already touched on it, I wouldn't like them to censor themselves from simple stuff like this.
Why is it always one or the other? Is it that impossible to be a bit more professional yet still keep it fun and relaxed? So tired of the "don't change anything cause then Tastosis will become a casting robot devoid of emotion". That's not what anyone wants and using that argument is meaningless.
How about the "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" argument? I'm not trying to imply that becoming more professional will rob them of emotion. I'm just saying that the current formula works just fine, and if you start messing with it, you run the risk of ruining something that works well the way it is. If MLG Columbus had replaced Day[9] and djWHEAT with Moletrap and Doa, which stream would you be more inclined to watch? Moletrap and Doa were a decent casting duo, very professional etc., but the way that Tastosis presents their casts certainly seems a lot more entertaining as is.
There's a difference between wanting them to change their core casting style and wanting small improvements. I really don't get why people are so extremely defensive about stuff like this. I love their casts but there's room for improvement and the casts could be even better with some constructive feedback. Not saying this thread is the right way to approach the whole thing though.
Because on stream they are being themselves, which almost everyone finds great.
Once you start asking for "little improvements" that are really not that important, the casting starts to become a little more forced and less natural, and the quality suffers for it.
Some casters do need to work on such improvements, because their casting isn't really sufficient otherwise, but this is not the case with either of these two.
Worst thing about Tasteless is him plugging his twitter and personal bizz all the time on GSL. Wouldn't mind him doing it once at the end of the day of casting, but he's doing it pretty much after every single game, sometimes even more often and since he's on GOMTV's time and payroll, he's payed to focus on GSL and GSL's sponsors during the air time. Can't really imagine a commentator to plug in his facebook page during champions league finals.
And there's those 'uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm' 'eeeeeeeeeee' and pauses like that. There's going into some completely offtopic discussions with Artosis. It's sometimes ok, especially at the beginning of the game. But there's an attack comming and Tasteless is talking about some random crap - that's just bad casting.
At MLG Tasteless was "UBER" awkward. He asked for cheers from the crowd but like.... It was just awkward 10 times out of 10.
The point where artosis get's interupted is just too accurate. I noticed this the very first time i watched Tastosis. Too be frank I don't watch the GSL much because sometimes the conversation get's totally terrible.
They do have good points however overall Tastless has many many many socially awkward moments to his name.
About the sex thing, Lol @ Koreans. We all know you're mannerism is above average. But us Westerners have used sex as a joke for almost a full century! Not that i'm defending it, I for one don't like talking about sex unless i'm with you know. A sexual Partner.
On June 14 2011 04:50 HornyHerring wrote: Worst thing about Tasteless is him plugging his twitter and personal bizz all the time on GSL. Wouldn't mind him doing it once at the end of the day of casting, but he's doing it pretty much after every single game, sometimes even more often and since he's on GOMTV's time and payroll, he's payed to focus on GSL and GSL's sponsors during the air time. Can't really imagine a commentator to plug in his facebook page during champions league finals.
And there's those 'uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm' 'eeeeeeeeeee' and pauses like that. There's going into some completely offtopic discussions with Artosis. It's sometimes ok, especially at the beginning of the game. But there's an attack comming and Tasteless is talking about some random crap - that's just bad casting.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
I disagree almost 100%, there's some merit to keeping material acceptable for all types of viewers, but I personally enjoy it when tasteless swears.
It is foolish to view any of your OPINIONS as just "Throwing out these facts"
Stating that what you said are facts is just prideful. As I'm sure you can tell from a majority of this thread, they are not facts, but opinions. Opinions that in fact, are not held by most of the TL community.
I hate to be rude PC_room_freak, but I completely disagree with the sex thing. Now, I'm not sure where you are coming from on this one? Are you in Korea? Because I understand Korean culture is different and can be more reserved. But coming from a North American, this criticism of him saying the word sex is rather odd.
If you aren't living in Korea, I think you probably need to get laid. And that's no joke or burn. I just mean if you ARE from NA, then you probably haven't had sex that many times. E-Sports is targeting the young male audience from 16-30, and for the majority of us sex isn't a really big topic. Anyone who has gone to University & lived in residence, or lived with a girlfriend, really doesn't get bothered by talk of sex.
If you do happen to be a father concerned about younger people hearing sex talk... why are you even letting them get into E-Sports? : )
Now, I completely agree with your diction comment in terms of repetitiveness -- there's nothing wrong with colloquial language, but repeating the same colloquial terms over and over and over is still bad. I'd like to see him vary his commenting between colloquial terms and some higher level language.
Artosis: Qualified for GSL Season 1, doing house tours on his youtube channel etc, casted the TSL etc.
What has Tasteless done other than the GSL? Voice acting? I doubt he even plays the game atm.
Tasteless has def. put a lot less effort towardst SC2 as he had towards BW, both passion and knowledge wise. Not saying that he sucks, but his commentaries were WAAAAAAAAAY better during BW.
The fact that I got the impression that money is very important to him is maybe a point to work on. Probably because of the constant personal bizz promoting.
I'm going to resurrect this thread since this is a topic that has not been discussed openly since the time of this thread, if I'm not mistaken. Given the amount of time that has passed with no improvement in tasteless' game knowledge, a resurrection of this thread is warranted.
My personal criticism of Tasteless is not really what's mentioned in the op, but rather his lack of game knowledge. I only state this criticism because I think it would his casts with Artosis greatly. It is painfully obvious in almost every game tasteless casts that he has a fundamental lack of understanding of high level sc2. Just one example out of hundreds would claiming that byun was really outplaying genius in their antiga shipyard game after byun did a minor drop that killed 2 probes and genius had messed up the pathing on his colossi a couple times (but no consequences had come of it). Of course later in the game byun did far outplay genius, but at that point it was too early to tell. And that's not even an egriegous example. I would be shocked if tasteless plays more than a couple games a month, if that. I just have to cringe several times EVERY GAME when he says something that so fundamentally misses the mark.
Now, you might argue that Tasteless is meant to be a play by play caster, that his main draw is his sense of humor, and that he has mass cross-over appeal. But, he and Artosis are undeniably the premier casting duo and they are casting a complex game. Regardless of the role Tastless is meant to fill, he shouldn't be saying so many things that are just plain incorrect. The premier casting duo should have consistently competent casts and they should do their homework. Tasteless does neither and for the sake of making GSL casts even better than they are now, he should improve.
I prefer artosis's casts over tasteless for the primary reason that Artosis makes smart reads that are often true early on in the game. Tasteless is really good at making a game interesting at times when its not; I feel like both traits are equally important to make a game of starcraft more interesting to the viewer however.
Tasteless should understand the game better, and therefore have more interesting things to say. The best casting duos are made up of two analytical casters, e.g. Artosis + Wolf. There's no need for a specialized play-by-play/humorous caster, because analytical casters can do humor and play-by-play just as well.
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously? **THIS DOES NOT MEAN he should stop fooling around and start casting seriously. the Lax casting is a part of his charm, for the billionth time i've mentioned. Needing more professionalism DOESNT mean they need to stop being hilarious.
That's a complete contradiction. What makes Tasteless (and Artosis) funny is the geeky humor. Geeky humor is not 'professional'. Geeky humor is not mainstream; it will put off anyone who is not a geek. If you want Tastosis to be professional, you're asking them to stop being geeky.
I think tasteless and artosis are by far the best caster duo in e-sports. I have no idea if tastless is as good by himself but he complements artosis perfectly.
Wolf and Khaldor has gone from bad, to ok, to good but they are still not as good as the casting archon, imo.
Disagree with all as. At the start of GSL I always just play Binding of Isaac or something and listen to GSL as a podcast becuase I feel that Tastosis are the only guys that are genuinly good to listen to when you are not really watching the game. If the cast was to get more 'professional' I feel that Tastosis would be a shadow of their former selves. One of the reasons why most people think they are so good is that they are really good friends in real life so if you were to take away their banter then you would degrade not the cast itself but Tastosis :'(
Also people have really got to shut up about trying to make eSports grow really quickly, you can't force something, its just got to happen on its own. Think of singers that go on these horrid reality TV shows only to fade into obscurity a month or so later, if eSports will get big it wil just get big anyways, its not like its going to be some changes from some casters that will make eSports flourish.
Please don't start this thread once again >_< - Tasteless are a great caster in ->HIS<- way and there's a TON of people who enjoy watching GSL and MLG just for him and Artosis. I just think It's annoying there's angry nerds on the internet who ALWAYS have to complain about everything and where nothing satisfies them, so they post on threads like these. Just because YOU don't like it, thousands of others do.
I just feel kinda sad and embrassed for Tasteless when seeing a thread with posts against him calling him "unprofessional" and that he interrupts Artosis at times I mean like come on, really? Can't you enjoy anything at all?
If Tasteless retired from casting GOMTV a few of you angry nerds will cheer and be happy - But the 95% of us wouldn't.
Tasteless if you're reading this don't listen to the few angry nerds who doesn't like you because you're "unprofessional" or whatever, keep doing your thing man cause there's a lot of people who enjoys and has fun watching you and Artosis - Sadly there's just always gonna be those few who has to whine about everything that annoys them, trolls if you like it?
I didnt think that sex thing was such a big deal. I was surprised, but I dont feel like there should be any taboo around it tbh. The only thing thats a little off to me is that next to the analysis-giant Artosis, tasteless looks like a guy who doesnt know alot about the game. They should somehow make tasteless explain some more complicated strategies aswell, so it doesnt look so one-sided.
The other casters have a lot more to improve on, and this constructive critisism for tasteless and artosis isnt even necessary. They clearly stand high above all other casters, and I think its hard to imagine any better unscripted casting than their unscripted casting.
Tasteless may not be as well versed with the game as Artosis, but he has all the other qualities that make the cast entertaining, put any other person there and they have very little chemistry.
They're funny, but the truth is that for esports to be taken seriously, that needs to change. They need to be very technical and serious commentators first, with being funny from time to time(Just sprinkled around). When I watch basketball for example, they make jokes sometimes, but they're really focused on the action and stay focused. And when nothing is going on, they point out stats, talk about the players specifically, their past and possible future.
One of the big problems though, is that the SC2 itself doesn't have that much to talk about a lot of the time. There is a lot of downtime and probably not enough strategy to discuss. There needs to be more constant action, or else it's like commentating baseball.
I agree with the OP whole-heartedly. One of my best friends also shares this opinion of Tasteless. We think he's getting really stale. It's the same jokes, the same phrases, and over time, a lower understanding of the game (how many times has he said "I don't understand why Terrans keep dropping when Mutalisks are out"?)
I'm glad you posted your opinions on this and hopefully Tasteless notices that not everybody is happy with his casting and can make improvements.
Its been proven many times already that if you have Tastosis come to your event it will draw in more people. People enjoy their casts much more than any other commentators. Both of them should just continue what their doing because their doing a great job.
On June 12 2011 15:10 Mordiford wrote: I disagree with all of the above.
I wouldn't recommend changing any of the thing mentioned above, he's doing a great job and I've never noticed him cut off Artosis in any manner that's noticeable and detracts from the cast.
Great job Tasteless, keep up the good work. Don't change a thing.
This is an even less productive thing to say than OP's criticisms.
On June 12 2011 15:22 hmunkey wrote: Disagree with everything completely except maybe the sex thing. I can see GSL as being a family show, so talking about sex and using vulgarities is probably not the best idea. Also, while a stronger diction couldn't hurt, I don't really mind Tasteless being Tasteless -- that's what makes their casting duo so good.
Ugh... I don't want to get into this sex thing, since that's been talked to death in the Casting Language Standards and similar threads but it just comes down to individual views of what's appropriate. I got a laugh out of that comment so I have no problem with it, there's plenty of content that could otherwise be objectionable that inherent to the game, filtering otherwise age appropriate content similar to that seems unnecessary to me.
It's because it comes to individual views of what's appropriate that it's often a good idea to keep the casting in the lowest common denominator in terms of controversy. I don't particulary mind sex jokes on the GSL but I can see why people may think it's a good idea to keep them away from casting.
Lol I knew I should have made a new thread about Tastless' game knowledge rather than resurrecting this one. People are just talking about the OP again. The OP is very old and it's outdated, so lets focus on Tastless' game knowledge (or lack thereof) because that's the current concern. Refer to my post above.
I loved tastless at the start of the GSL, and when I stop watching GSL I start loving him again. But when I watch him frequently he starts to get boring, because I know what he will say. So Good, etc etc.
Tasteless and Artosis are great casters, but Tasteless is not changing things up something Artosis is, to some extent anyways.
Tastosis is still the best casting duo in SC2, but I'm going so far and saying that truly doesn't mean much atm.
On July 11 2012 03:49 Doodsmack wrote: Lol I knew I should have made a new thread about Tastless' game knowledge rather than resurrecting this one. People are just talking about the OP again. The OP is very old and it's outdated, so lets focus on Tastless' game knowledge (or lack thereof) because that's the current concern. Refer to my post above.
Well, whenever you want to make a new point, discussion etc. Make a new thread? People will discuss the OP, people wont look around in the thread to find your opinion and discuss it
IMO anyone who gets to cast with Artosis does not need any game knowledge. The fact is they gel so well as a casting duo, with very few awkward pauses, that all Tasteless really needs to do is be his entertaining self and he can leave the analysis to Artosis if he wants to.
Only thing I can say about Tasteless is that he stutters ALOT. Its like his mind just sometimes wanders off and he's having problems finishing a sentence. This actually happens frequently and is actually pretty annoying in the long run.
But hey, I love Tasteless no matter what, and combined with Artosis they are funniest guys out there!
On July 11 2012 04:03 ItchyLegs wrote: tasteless is the best. nothing more needs to be said.
Man, such a great argument.
Well I for one care substantially less about the GSL because of Tasteless' casting. I love Wolf, I love Artosis and I like Khaldor. But what I don't like, is still, to this day, being reminded upon twitter accounts and other stuff because Tasteless never knows what to talk about during downtime.
In the few cases where Artosis is coupled with Wolf or some progamer he begins to really shine. The synergy between him and Tasteless though, well there is none other than the fact that they know each other for so long.
It's a joke that people are saying Tasteless doesn't have enough game knowledge. Who freaking cares? I can't remember one time where I was watching GSL, and I thought to myself... "Damn, tasteless knows so much about this game!" In fact, I find myself saying that about Artosis.... all of the time. Nick's job isn't to drop mad knowledge bombs on people - it's to entertain them. That means he doesn't need in-depth knowledge about the game, he just has to know enough to know what's going on so he can make it more entertaining for those who don't. I'm not saying a caster should know jack shit about the game, but let's be honest here - They don't need to know everything. They don't even need to be playing as long as they're watching games and reading up on the meta-game. Combine that with the fact that Nick talks to Artosis about all sorts of nerd things, and in those conversations probably learns something he needs for SC2.
Tl;DR - If you care about how much Tasteless knows about SC2 - you probably need a hobby.
Thank you for this post. I am in agreement with you 100%. If people would just listen to what he actually said, many would realize that he is either stating the obvious, missing something important, or completely wrong in his analysis. I realize he tries to simplify what hes saying and make new comers who have never watched starcraft understand, but this is only because he has no clue what is going on himself. He is, in my opinion, one of the worst casters out there. He sounds like a complete meathead, despite being a "nerd". He does not come across as intelligent whatsoever. I am a huge fan of day9 and surprised that these two are brothers.
edit: after reading the post above who argues that he isnt there for knowledge and that he's there for entertainment, let me point out that he is not entertaining at all, at least in my opinion. His jokes are rarely funny. His attempts at being witty fall flat on their face. Occasionally there is a humorous comment. I don't see why people hop on this guys dick. There is NOTHING special about him.
I find it interesting that Tasteless signed with "esports managing group" i cant remember what it was called lol. Artosis didnt sign. I have seen Tasteless cast without Artosis only in MLG when they rotated the casting combos. Man he was so lost (granted, his casting partner wasnt the perfect match). I would like to see how he does in an event without Artosis and is there even an event that would want only him.
On July 11 2012 04:13 hoby2000 wrote: It's a joke that people are saying Tasteless doesn't have enough game knowledge. Who freaking cares? I can't remember one time where I was watching GSL, and I thought to myself... "Damn, tasteless knows so much about this game!" In fact, I find myself saying that about Artosis.... all of the time. Nick's job isn't to drop mad knowledge bombs on people - it's to entertain them. That means he doesn't need in-depth knowledge about the game, he just has to know enough to know what's going on so he can make it more entertaining for those who don't. I'm not saying a caster should know jack shit about the game, but let's be honest here - They don't need to know everything. They don't even need to be playing as long as they're watching games and reading up on the meta-game. Combine that with the fact that Nick talks to Artosis about all sorts of nerd things, and in those conversations probably learns something he needs for SC2.
Tl;DR - If you care about how much Tasteless knows about SC2 - you probably need a hobby.
That is some high level white knighting. People spend lots of money on the GSL and just because their opinion of one of the main casters differ from yours doesn't mean they need a hobby or is a whiner.
Tasteless seems to try and predict more lately and you really notice how Artosis often has to dodge the "right, Artosis?" because the prediction is plain wrong. Tasteless gets by on being a great personality, but he would be twice as good if he actually cared to look up stats and play the game as much as the other GOM employed english casters. He's more fun than Wolf and Khaldor imo but they trump him in actual game knowledge and knowledge about players and trends.
I agree with alot of what the op mentions. Actually the only gsl caster I really like is artosis. Don't know what it is, but tasteless just says the same things over and over again, rarely something of "use". I'm not really in to the "nerdy" humor they're playing with neither, but that goes for Artosis aswell I guess.
I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
Why do people think tastless and artosis are such a great duo?
Bitterdam is just as funny as tastosis AND they both play the game at a masters level. Instead of one analytic caster there are two. Also, day9 brings both humor and analysis to his casting. He is FAR better than either Artosis, or Tastless.
I bring these three people up to demonstrate that in every way these guys are better, yet people still like tastosis? Don't get it....
On July 11 2012 04:26 meridian2012 wrote: I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
Artosis and Wolf/Khaldor were, in my opinion, better than Tastosis. More focus on the game, current trends, and playstyles.
On July 11 2012 04:26 meridian2012 wrote: I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
I actually really like Artosis and Wolf when they cast together, because they keep the flow going with their excitement about the match-up, the metagame, the players, and the strategies in play or that have the potential to come into play. At no point do they feel the need to say "we're going to have some downtime here guys" or "there's not really much going on at the moment", because there's so much Starcraft for them to gush over in between the big battles. To me that keeps the flow going in a much more interesting way.
Different people like different things. Tasteless doesn't need to change anything as he is appealing to his directed audience. The reason why wolf+artosis isnt' ideal as those who are "new" to sc2 would have the information go completely over their head. Stop being haters and enjoy the fact we have people who would want to cast this game and have experience. If you want something to complain about, complain about incontrol.
On July 11 2012 04:28 SuperPro wrote: Why do people think tastless and artosis are such a great duo?
Bitterdam is just as funny as tastosis AND they both play the game at a masters level. Instead of one analytic caster there are two. Also, day9 brings both humor and analysis to his casting. He is FAR better than either Artosis, or Tastless.
I bring these three people up to demonstrate that in every way these guys are better, yet people still like tastosis? Don't get it....
Agree that Bitterdam is a better combination than Tastosis (although I love them both) but there is no way that Day[9] provides better analysis than Artosis. He's entertaining in his own right, but I can't count on him to drop knowledge bombs like Artosis can. I also think that Tastosis is a more entertaining duo than Day[9] paired with pretty much anybody.
That said, I agree that Tasteless' casting has seemed to become stagnant and that the show would improve if he upped his game knowledge and contributed more than just hilarious stories. I still enjoy their casts, but Wolf/Khaldor are almost as good now and there is always room for improvement.
The day tasteless quits I will probably stop watching Starcraft. If you know anything about the game you will notice all casters are clueless sometimes and for me its just a matter of who can be the most entertaining and talk properly without any annoying accents.
On July 11 2012 04:28 SuperPro wrote: Why do people think tastless and artosis are such a great duo?
Bitterdam is just as funny as tastosis AND they both play the game at a masters level. Instead of one analytic caster there are two. Also, day9 brings both humor and analysis to his casting. He is FAR better than either Artosis, or Tastless.
I bring these three people up to demonstrate that in every way these guys are better, yet people still like tastosis? Don't get it....
Thats your opinion, some might disagree, hope you are ok with that.
I like Tastosis alot, they are the ones got me hooked on this awesome game. IMO they fullfill eachother very well and I do tend to like their humor alot ^^
On July 11 2012 04:26 meridian2012 wrote: I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
I actually really like Artosis and Wolf when they cast together, because they keep the flow going with their excitement about the match-up, the metagame, the players, and the strategies in play or that have the potential to come into play. At no point do they feel the need to say "we're going to have some downtime here guys" or "there's not really much going on at the moment", because there's so much Starcraft for them to gush over in between the big battles. To me that keeps the flow going in a much more interesting way.
Exactly that. Hearing stuff about the players or the game (not meaning the current match that's playing) when little is going on is great. That's what I want to see after all. And put jokes in there, make me laugh. I think Khaldor, Wolf and Artosis do a great job at that.
But "Well what can I see, nothing going on yet in the early game... ... so, Artosis [insert off topic talk or bad joke]." And seriously, I bet it's forbidden for the Korean casters to mention their Twitter Tag every damn day. Thanks to Tasteless that stuff spread so far it seems like way too many casters are plugging their Twitter accounts way too often.
I don't want to be specific however, because in my point of view Tasteless' problem isn't that he's doing one specific thing every now and then, it's that he has pretty obviously huge troubles bridging time gaps. He just doesn't know what to say - that's it really.
And you know what, to me that's kinda unacceptable for a top tier caster that is payed for doing his job. It's not like there's nothing he could do about that, he could do more research about players or the game (or play it to just get a better game sense). He could do that, Wolf, Khaldor and other guys do just that.
On July 11 2012 04:26 meridian2012 wrote: I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
I actually really like Artosis and Wolf when they cast together, because they keep the flow going with their excitement about the match-up, the metagame, the players, and the strategies in play or that have the potential to come into play. At no point do they feel the need to say "we're going to have some downtime here guys" or "there's not really much going on at the moment", because there's so much Starcraft for them to gush over in between the big battles. To me that keeps the flow going in a much more interesting way.
Exactly that. Hearing stuff about the players or the game (not meaning the current match that's playing) when little is going on is great. That's what I want to see after all. And put jokes in there, make me laugh. I think Khaldor, Wolf and Artosis do a great job at that.
But "Well what can I see, nothing going on yet in the early game... ... so, Artosis [insert off topic talk or bad joke]." And seriously, I bet it's forbidden for the Korean casters to mention their Twitter Tag every damn day. Thanks to Tasteless that stuff spread so far it seems like way too many casters are plugging their Twitter accounts way too often.
I don't want to be specific however, because in my point of view Tasteless' problem isn't that he's doing one specific thing every now and then, it's that he has pretty obviously huge troubles bridging time gaps. He just doesn't know what to say - that's it really.
And you know what, to me that's kinda unacceptable for a top tier caster that is payed for doing his job. It's not like there's nothing he could do about that, he could do more research about players or the game (or play it to just get a better game sense). He could do that, Wolf, Khaldor and other guys do just that.
It seems to me you are just a hater-nerd who just doesn't like the style of tasteless...which is fine. I'm going to go on a limb and say if you do not like it, do not listen to him. I know its hard not to complain about something easily avoidable, but I think most people here who does not "like" tasteless are just finding things to complain about. Tastosis found a style which works for them and appeals to the vast majority of the audience (**hint hint* your the minority). So i HIGHLY doubt they will change their formula because a few people want to here "deep seated knowledge bombs".
From what I can tell Tasteless lost his passion for casting and e-sports in general a long time ago (probably before SC2 even) and now he just sort of goes through the motions because, well, what else is he gonna do?
So people are allowed to have a different opinion but you tag me as a "hater-nerd" (cute btw.).
Of course they're not going to change something around the "Casting Archon". I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. But that is a pity for me as I love Artosis' casting and seeing him paired with someone like Wolf is fantastic.
On top of that Artosis and Tasteless are casting most of Code S, which I'd prefer seeing.
On July 11 2012 04:28 SuperPro wrote: Why do people think tastless and artosis are such a great duo?
Bitterdam is just as funny as tastosis AND they both play the game at a masters level. Instead of one analytic caster there are two. Also, day9 brings both humor and analysis to his casting. He is FAR better than either Artosis, or Tastless.
I bring these three people up to demonstrate that in every way these guys are better, yet people still like tastosis? Don't get it....
Agree that Bitterdam is a better combination than Tastosis (although I love them both) but there is no way that Day[9] provides better analysis than Artosis. He's entertaining in his own right, but I can't count on him to drop knowledge bombs like Artosis can. I also think that Tastosis is a more entertaining duo than Day[9] paired with pretty much anybody.
That said, I agree that Tasteless' casting has seemed to become stagnant and that the show would improve if he upped his game knowledge and contributed more than just hilarious stories. I still enjoy their casts, but Wolf/Khaldor are almost as good now and there is always room for improvement.
Tasteless was great as the play-by-play guy at the begining of the GSL coming up with great jokes in each cast ( the season in which he came up with the "ladder point stealing nerd" joke and how he stole ladder points). Over the years tho he quit making new jokes and I wouldn't be surprised if someone said he hasen't played a agame of Starcraft 2 in about a year. His play-by-play is still good but Artosis is the one that keeps the casting at a top level with his awesome analysis and the way he spins stories from the games he casts. I guess when you win boat loads of money you stop caring about the quality when the fans are okay with the bare minimum. Its also probably why he "hired" that management group to represent him to get more gigs outside e-sports. I really like him(and artosis) and his casting but I'm just a bit sad that he seems like he dosen't play sc2 anymore and dosen't really care about it anymore.
P.S. In my opinion bitterdam are mediocre casters. Day9 dosen't provide better analysis than Artosis and the way artosis delivers his analysis is so much better than day9. Day9 is good for noobs or new viewers but his live casting skills are terrible when it comes to commentating games(he is good at hyping crowds tho).
btw, try to pay attention to the questions Tasteless asks, he ALWAYS asks what something means and if it points towards a certain direction when Artosis forgets to mention it. Tasteless has about the same knowledge as Artosis, they just decided Tasteless was better at the play-by-play stuff and story telling etc, that is why Artosis is the analyst.
But as always this post will be ignored and some random kid will say how Orb has way more knowledge of the game etc etc.
edit: You really all believe Tasteless is some Bronce newb that has no idea what he's talking about? Wow, good thing you judge others...
Until you've heard CatsPajamas and Doa say "No kidding!" fifteen times during one game, you don't know what the terms "repetitive" and "broken record" really mean.
I liked Tasteless very much in Broodwar days, now not so much, but I don't know whether he has changed or I have. I'm tired of him explaining that with plus one, zealots kill zerglings in two hits instead of three. In Tastosis, I think Artosis' analysis is way better (and definitely top three overall as far as foreigners go), and also he is way funnier. Somehow I find Tasteless try-hard nowadays.
MrBitter is very good and has earned a medal for his 12 weeks with the pros alone. Bitterdam tend to giggle too much about random non sc related stuff for my taste.
A lot can be said about Day9, but it's hard to deny that he's a highly competent, professional and entertaining caster.
On July 11 2012 04:26 meridian2012 wrote: I completely disagree. Artosis is knowledgable and Tasteless helps the commentary flow. Could you imagine 2 Artosis', that wouldn't work. Two tastless' also wouldn't work. One of each, Perfect.
Artosis and Wolf/Khaldor were, in my opinion, better than Tastosis. More focus on the game, current trends, and playstyles.
Artosis with Wolf/Khaldor was excellent indeed, there was actual discussion where both casters contributed with in-depth information. With Tastosis its just going through the motions, its gotten boring.
Tasteless constantly sounds like he doesn't play the game or have interest in it. I can't see him improving until he addresses that in some form or fashion. His jokes and constant off topic banter would be less distracting if he could contribute to Artosis' various metagame conversations. And whenever Tasteless casts with someone else, he flounders because he just doesn't seem to have the same interest in the game.
Hearing Artosis and Wolf cast was glorious. You could tell Artosis was excited to be able to theorycraft and even debate a co-caster; they were truly like two peas in a pod. Likewise, Bitter and Rotterdam constantly get into thoughtful debates/discussions and theorycrafting. Whereas Tasteless constantly seems out of touch.
Khaldor has improved signifigantly btw. Before he was mainly a stat hound, and while he still focuses on them he also does his homework, remembers past games, prods the great brain of Wolf, etc.
On July 11 2012 05:01 rEalGuapo wrote: btw, try to pay attention to the questions Tasteless asks, he ALWAYS asks what something means and if it points towards a certain direction when Artosis forgets to mention it. Tasteless has about the same knowledge as Artosis, they just decided Tasteless was better at the play-by-play stuff and story telling etc, that is why Artosis is the analyst.
But as always this post will be ignored and some random kid will say how Orb has way more knowledge of the game etc etc.
edit: You really all believe Tasteless is some Bronce newb that has no idea what he's talking about? Wow, good thing you judge others...
I'm sorry but Tasteless does not have the same SC2 knowledge as Artosis. Tasteless asks those questions because it's better than doing what some other casters have done, make false predictions on where the game is going.
Why are all the people defending Tasteless so keen on dismissing the ones with citicism? Either it's that we should get a hobby or that we're kids. It's not like there's Tasteless hate in this thread, it's just people critiquing what they consider to be the weakest part of GSL casting atm.
I do enjoy Tastosis casts, but they still have a lot of untapped potential due to Tasteless' lack of knowledge and apparent interest. It's literally 3 or 4 times per game that Tasteless says something that just makes you think "What? Are you in gold league?"
It's funny that every point that you make is what make Tasteless, and even more Tastosis, who they are, it's why they're so successful. One of their great hallmarks is saying shit that is totally out of line, and people loving it, it's why they don't get fired for such things.
So, with all due respect, go back to Korea if you don't like how the American casters are doing their job great.
On July 11 2012 05:01 rEalGuapo wrote: btw, try to pay attention to the questions Tasteless asks, he ALWAYS asks what something means and if it points towards a certain direction when Artosis forgets to mention it. Tasteless has about the same knowledge as Artosis, they just decided Tasteless was better at the play-by-play stuff and story telling etc, that is why Artosis is the analyst.
But as always this post will be ignored and some random kid will say how Orb has way more knowledge of the game etc etc.
edit: You really all believe Tasteless is some Bronce newb that has no idea what he's talking about? Wow, good thing you judge others...
I'm sorry but Tasteless does not have the same SC2 knowledge as Artosis. Tasteless asks those questions because it's better than doing what some other casters have done, make false predictions on where the game is going.
Why are all the people defending Tasteless so keen on dismissing the ones with citicism? Either it's that we should get a hobby or that we're kids. It's not like there's Tasteless hate in this thread, it's just people critiquing what they consider to be the weakest part of GSL casting atm.
and at the same time alot of the 'critisism'is that tasteless should be more 'professional' and anylitical,let me ask this,why must he be that?i like their casting duo and as stated alot of other people do to,its like khaldor for example has said to quote 'when are people gonna realise that casters aren't supposed to fulfill every viewer's state out there?'their job is to attract the main audience which tastosis do not saying he can improve but stating that he should get higher game'knowledge'is not true as if u listen u can actually hear how he direct and ask things are made in a good way unlike some other casters i have heard.why do u think people like husky for example?i listened to one of his cast on youtube and every1 was commenting on how good he was both analytical and exciting while me who could tell easily that 70% of what he said was wrong.that is a different story though but still people like his casting even though he isn't very 'analytical' or says the correct things when he is trying to be that.its his atmosphere and passion etc and when it comes to tastosis i get a really nice smile on my face when i see those two cast because artosis says everything about strategy etc while tasteless brings the atmosphere and a great synergy with artosis though i will gladly admit that he has those weird moments where the stuff he says makes no sense but that happens to all of us
There probably exist an infinite amount of opinions regarding casters as a simple result of human preference (ie when presented with two objects of similar function [in our case casters], it is your natural tendency to draw comparative conclusions).
However, I think that far too often people vocalize their concerns, especially when they don't have the credentials to pass judgement (let alone the mechanics to properly articulate a viewpoint which in this case seems to be "Tasteless is not as good of caster as he was before") on an individual who is literally IN Korea, earning money as a result of his casting. The very nature of his job makes scrutinizing very easy but dissenters often forget that he is HUMAN. His past has granted him at the very least the benefit of the doubt in his supposed spree of sub-optimal casts. The internet makes expressing an opinion ridiculously easy, but that also allows half-thoughts and crass opinions percolate through the eSports spectator consciousness which are either too pedantic or just arguing a non-issue. All of this makes the volume of personal insults in a very clearly titled constructive criticisms thread too much to bear.
But the bottom line seems to be this: these threads are made with the intention of (ideally speaking) aiding the individuals driving esports. But from a wholly utilitarian standpoint, there are much more productive ways to contribute (go liquidpedia!) without rehashing worthless opinions. I mean do people actually think that Tasteless cares about what uninformed SPECTATORS think about his casting? I am absolutely sure he knows what he needs to do, but the question to anyone posting comments falsely disguised as constructive criticism: do you?
I used to love nicks casting alot, it was one of the things that brought me into gsl, I had barely any idea what the game was about, but tasteless casting made so much sence to me and he was so funny. Don't misunderstand me he is still one of the funniest casters if not the funniest and he is a great talker and always keep the chat going.
But recently, or to be more exakt the last month I have started to dislike his casting, I cannot really put the finger on what makes me dislike it, I just do.
Perhaps it is that I tasteless just seems to have lost a bit of his passion to the game? and I like artosis/(wolf/khaldor) more because artosis get the chance to talk more about the actually game with someone when he doesnt cast with tasteless.
On July 11 2012 05:43 6d.Leek wrote: There probably exist an infinite amount of opinions regarding casters as a simple result of human preference (ie when presented with two objects of similar function [in our case casters], it is your natural tendency to draw comparative conclusions).
However, I think that far too often people vocalize their concerns, especially when they don't have the credentials to pass judgement (let alone the mechanics to properly articulate a viewpoint which in this case seems to be "Tasteless is not as good of caster as he was before") on an individual who is literally IN Korea, earning money as a result of his casting. The very nature of his job makes scrutinizing very easy but dissenters often forget that he is HUMAN. His past has granted him at the very least the benefit of the doubt in his supposed spree of sub-optimal casts. The internet makes expressing an opinion ridiculously easy, but that also allows half-thoughts and crass opinions percolate through the eSports spectator consciousness which are either too pedantic or just arguing a non-issue. All of this makes the volume of personal insults in a very clearly titled constructive criticisms thread too much to bear.
But the bottom line seems to be this: these threads are made with the intention of (ideally speaking) aiding the individuals driving esports. But from a wholly utilitarian standpoint, there are much more productive ways to contribute (go liquidpedia!) without rehashing worthless opinions. I mean do people actually think that Tasteless cares about what uninformed SPECTATORS think about his casting? I am absolutely sure he knows what he needs to do, but the question to anyone posting comments falsely disguised as constructive criticism: do you?
Most post i've read that don't have the "old post" sign are mostly about the fact that Tasteless just doesn't know much about the game compared to the other casters. I haven't read everything but there's very little personal insults in the last few pages. More like people want him to actually get to the point where he and Artosis could have banter about the game in the same way Artosis and Wolf does.
Take football for example. The play by play guy and the expert both have a ton of knowledge, no play by play guy gets away by being charming but lacking knowledge (at least that i know of). You absolutely need to study and be in the know to do it. It's not to much to ask, is it?
I think he's a good caster, or at least better than most casters , since nobody is even close to perfect imo. The only problem, as people have already stated, is that he isn't devoted enough to the game and it shows, especially when trying to predict the outcome of some pretty one sided battles (to the eye of a regular player) or when trying to figure out the possible builds that a player might plan to follow.
Playing the game yourself is a quite important thing to do as a caster, since you become familiar with the possible situations each race might encounter in each matchup, which helps a lot in casting.
Urgh. Here we go again. First I want to state that I hate this kind of threads because they will probably not have any influence. And I want tasteless to read this. I want him to improve. But then again people will probably just call me a "hater-nerd" and be done with it. But here some points (in arbitrary order).
- Talk about the game. I know you like jokes. Some people like them. But listen to any cast by Wolf and Khaldor. They don't start with 5 minutes of Pokemon jokes. They list player stats, what is going on with the players, talk about the current metagame in this matchup and a lot more. They concentrate on Starcraft, not on your nerdy hobbies.
- The game is the most important part. This is similar to the first part but a bit different. Too often I have to listen to Tasteless talk about pokemon or dubstep or "hater-nerds" while there is something interesting going on in the game. I swear I remember at least one game where this was going on until the game was basically won.
- If you want to do play by play, do it. Try to listen to what tasteless says alone without artosis. And then listen to any other play by play caster. They talk so much more about the game and what is going on. Tasteless just fills the time with pointless phrases until Artosis jumps in to save him and does the play by play. How often did you hear: "There is so much going on, guys.", "He is literally everywhere.", "Now we see the factory liften up for the starport.", "And here we see the terran moving out.", "this is no longer a game of strategy but a game of math.". I know every caster has phrases he repeats. That is fine. But I can't shake the feeling that this is all Tasteless says.
- Don't make the game boring until it is over. Many people will probably missunderstand this. I am not talking about calling the game over. I am talking about repeating how the game is over now instead of casting what the player tries to do.
However I want to stress that not everything is bad. Sometimes he asks interesting questions. Sometimes he does good play by play. But all these points really contribute to me generally disliking his asts. Some month ago it was really bad imho but it got at least a bit better. There was also few casts which where very good but I can't remember the games.
On July 11 2012 06:04 Karioha wrote: OK, here is my review to tasteless. Positive: He could be a far worse and more arrogant caster such as the FATASS SCUMBAG shit/fatcontrol
is something wrong with your brain?
@topic: imo, he improved a bit lately and i hope he keeps doing so and hopefully reaches his prime like in the good old days.
On July 11 2012 06:04 Karioha wrote: OK, here is my review to tasteless. Positive: [b]He could be a far worse and more arrogant caster such as the I posted something stupid, didn't remove it, so I guess I'm a fuckkkkkking idiot]
^ reworked your sentence to be a little more realistic.
I like tasteless as a personality. I enjoy most of his humor, and I think he is a perfect duo with artosis. His casting, however, is probably the worst actual casting ive ever heard out of any other major name caster in the world. However, the pro's outweigh the cons on this subject, and I hope tasteless sticks around. GSL wouldnt be the same without him (i actually wouldnt watch GSL if tastosis was gone).
On July 11 2012 05:02 FrogOfWar wrote: Until you've heard CatsPajamas and Doa say "No kidding!" fifteen times during one game, you don't know what the terms "repetitive" and "broken record" really mean.
I liked Tasteless very much in Broodwar days, now not so much, but I don't know whether he has changed or I have. I'm tired of him explaining that with plus one, zealots kill zerglings in two hits instead of three. In Tastosis, I think Artosis' analysis is way better (and definitely top three overall as far as foreigners go), and also he is way funnier. Somehow I find Tasteless try-hard nowadays.
MrBitter is very good and has earned a medal for his 12 weeks with the pros alone. Bitterdam tend to giggle too much about random non sc related stuff for my taste.
A lot can be said about Day9, but it's hard to deny that he's a highly competent, professional and entertaining caster.
</2 cents>
I would agree with pretty much all of this. I absolutely loved Tasteless when I was new to the scene watching the bw gomtv leagues. He was my favorite caster along with Nukethestars. I too don't know if it is my years of watching other stuff and learning the game(s) or if he has actually gotten worse, but the fact that I still enjoy Nuke a lot suggests that the stagnation of Tasteless' casting doesn't appeal to me.
That being said, he has gotten a lot better than he was a few months ago. His constant repeating of Artosis' points like it was his own genius idea used to make his casting almost unwatchable to me. Constructive criticism is good for anyone, if our 'heroes' start to stagnate and get repetitive, we loose interest in them, that is as true for Stratovarius as it is for Tasteless, or Day[J] for that matter.
The only bother I really have at the moment is their tendency to talk about random stuff way too much. Especially before the first game is about to begin. I understand that there is a lot of time to fill, and I wouldn't complain if they made the intro time about half of what it is today, but I can always skip that on the vods. What I would like is some real info on the players, especially if there is some foreign player making perhaps a one time showing in the GSL.
Who really wants to hear Tastosis bantering about how hungry they are and how much they're looking forward to pizza?! I want to hear them talk about how awesome Thorzain is, and why! Talk about his style and how it is adapting to the Korean scene, or whatever... Talk about his last showings in the GSL, or how his games were when he played against Polt in Dreamhack. These are facts that can be interesting even when watching vods months later.
On July 11 2012 06:20 Maxhster wrote: theres a reason tastosis is widely considered the best casting duo around, and its not only based on artosis...
Tasteless calls and screams out when units are moving, or when something is dying or exploding. Other than that, he really isnt talking about the game at all, it's mostly artosis. Again, I wouldnt have it any other way, but tasteless is almost purely comic relief, and nothing more.
My only possible two criticisms of tasteless are these (and one of them is a criticism of a lot of casters in general)
1. There's a lot of debate about how to handle a game that is definitely "over" even if it has maybe 10 minutes left still potentially. Regardless of that actual debate, it feels a lot like when tasteless is in that situation, his whole cast actually just goes, like the tone of the game is controlling how well he can fill. Where previously there might have been random downtime or filler occupied with jokes, "IIIIIII don't really know what to say guys" and sort of awkward silences follow. Again, regardless of whether that attitude should be taken to any game or casters should never give up never surrender or be realistic or however you think it should be, I just think it's worth noting that the pace of the game shouldn't seem to impact your actual mood so much.
2. Every caster has his image or brand at this point, if they're one of the major couple. Day9 caters to new audiences and every cast is sort of an individual one-time experience, Artosis is the professor, Bitter and Rotterdam are "college roomates having fun", Totalbiscuit is shouty, Wheat is passionate....and Tasteless is sort of tasteless. The cast has been basically the same for a long time, and it's always with dan (with one exception I can think of). I don't want to imply like, it's gotten old and boring, because i dont think it has...but it has become all i can remember when i think of tasteless. I think it could be really invigorating for some sort of side project to happen.
Sadly I have to agree with many peoples' points here.
I imagine Tasteless as a gold league player on NA, not sure what to say so he just makes jokes and talks about ''nerdy'' stuff, as someone said, pokémons etc etc and Artosis does the real thing...
I get the impression he no longer has any ambition/motivation to cast enthustically and will stop casting soon... ....
Since people have been questioning how much he actually plays and knows, i've noticed him saying "when i play the game I like to do x y z" much more often. Makes me chuckle.
Kinda hate myself for jumping on a hate train here, but i do feel that maybe tasteless talks down to the viewers a little too much. A lot of the stuff he says is like, "for any newer players out there.." or the old, "this is now a game of math". I can't imagine that new players who are so bronze that they don't know when a game is won or not really make up a very large fraction of gomtv's viewership.
I do however feel like a lot of the comments about him not knowing anything about the game are based on the fact that only Artosis seems to talk about strategy. It's hard to tell whether tasteless just doesn't know anything about it or doesn't talk about it.
On a kinda separate note, what's with all the pokemon obsession recently? It's really just not that good of a game - or is that part of the joke? Maybe it's just nostalgia or something.
I think tasteless is master level player. Anyway his casting is great, I love it. He uses sarcasm so often if you don't understand it thats your problem. Also making jokes is the only reason i watch those . If i want to watch the game only i'd find the replays. That's the reason i watch only gsl code s, cause it's funny, and TBH wolf's hair fetish made it so that i never watch gsl code A again.
Tasteless is Tasteless. His biggest weakness is his limited game knowledge, but so what? His casting is still at the top, and he has great chemistry with Artosis.
The people new to the scene just don't understand how hard Artosis and Tasteless worked and how much they sacrificed to bring Korean esports to the rest of the world.
I do however feel like a lot of the comments about him not knowing anything about the game are based on the fact that only Artosis seems to talk about strategy. It's hard to tell whether tasteless just doesn't know anything about it or doesn't talk about it.
Not true. He says a lot of things that are wrong, and that you would expect someone who commentates the highest level of Starcraft to know. I don't want to be too harsh because I appreciate the contributions he has made to the scene over the course of his career. But this is a pretty gaping hole in his current casting.
I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
Not really concerned about Tasteless' knowledge of the game. This is classic sportscasting, adapted to Starcraft: get a guy with charisma to dictate the what's happening, have a smarter guy to give you a bit more theory, a bit more history, and a bit more of the implications. If you've ever watched other sports, this is an extremely standard casting setup, and I rather like it.
EDIT: And if I never heard Khaldor's voice again, I die a happy man.
On July 11 2012 19:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
I hate to say it but I agree with this, had you asked this question one year ago I would say yeah he's a good commentator and has good chemistry with Artosis, but as the game evolved Tasteless did not. I still think Artosis is the best caster in the scene but as a duo BitterdaM is better than Tastosis.
I think I want to like Tasteless but if he didn't had the image he build up over the years and wasn't commentating with Artosis I think he would not be flown all over the world or even commentate for GSL.
On July 11 2012 19:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
Very true, according to a Sabin, a guy working as a producer for MLG's fighting game division, Tasteless told him that he doesn't even play starcraft anymore, he simply shows up for his casting work. I think we're at the poin where most people are knowledgeable enough that Tasteles' glaring misstakes and ignorance when it comes to the game are starting to show.
On July 11 2012 19:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
Very true, according to a Sabin, a guy working as a producer for MLG's fighting game division, Tasteless told him that he doesn't even play starcraft anymore, he simply shows up for his casting work. I think we're at the poin where most people are knowledgeable enough that Tasteles' glaring misstakes and ignorance when it comes to the game are starting to show.
Wow really? That's quite a bold claim, you might want to double check that.
^^ Agreed. As for Tasteless, he's really been dropping the ball lately. I wish he would stop trying to talk like Artosis does unless he can back it up with actual, new knowledge on the game. He could just try to talk like Khaldor and I'd be happy. "He's dropping SO much in supply." "Symbol has SO many infestors, marineking will not be able to keep up" "This is NOT a good idea, he needs to get OUT of there" If he can't do that without stumbling over his words or not sounding confident, he shouldn't be commentating. Every time he says something that sounds really awkward or something "directed at the noobies" I feel like it pulls me from the game and I have to listen to him until he's finally finished articulating that sentence and artosis can talk again. Tastless, man, I really hope you're reading this because I really want you to be an awesome commentator like back in the day. I'm always surprised when I go back and watch old VODs like TLO vs OgsHyperDub on Xel Naga Caverns to find out how much more engaged you seemed back then.
I must be one of the few people that thinks he is doing a fine job... Sure he doesn't know everything like he did with BW, but he is one of the most entertaining casters for me. He is like Kevin Knocke but with more information, or a DOA that is a bit funnier. Also, he is one of the few people that has really good chemistry with Artosis. Maybe if everyone set less impossible expectations for this guy and simply tried to enjoy instead of only trying to see the negative they might find it more enjoyable.
On July 11 2012 20:33 Yamulo wrote: I must be one of the few people that thinks he is doing a fine job... Sure he doesn't know everything like he did with BW, but he is one of the most entertaining casters for me. He is like Kevin Knocke but with more information, or a DOA that is a bit funnier. Also, he is one of the few people that has really good chemistry with Artosis. Maybe if everyone set less impossible expectations for this guy and simply tried to enjoy instead of only trying to see the negative they might find it more enjoyable.
This isn't a free league. This is GSL. We pay for this experience, not just by watching advertisements, though in most cases we pay by cash and by watching advertisements. Plus we know he has a lot more to contribute than this whole "for the noobs" crap, because he used to be so much better. Why should we settle for this?
off topic, but yesterday cast of nasl final with D9 and Husky was odd.
I was watching while farming D3, so maybe i'm not ultra focus on the game, but it look like both player made blender after blender, gaining and loosing advantage constently, and the caster only saying like tastless " they are so good" ...
both player where more honest on they way to the final than the caster, as they both say in the first game that they where lucky to be in the final, one playing only PvP, the other almost only ZvP. avoiding all better player.
Tasteless is a casting robot who would even cast "Hello Kitty Online" for enough money. Artosis + Khaldor or even Artosis alone is way more entertaining.
From time to time maybe #1 The rest i totally disagree. Since years sex is everywhere in society, tv shows or anything else you probably can imagine, so - even if people think it's offending n' stuff - I dont really see this point nowerdays. Tasteless isn't interrupting Artosis all the time and if he does it's something important which is happening right now when Dan is talking about some strats or macrothings n' stuff, so it's totally fine when he does it. Just the complete package of their casting fits together so well and even Artosis does most of the analysis Tasteless' part is exactly as important as Artosis'.
On July 11 2012 19:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
I agree.
I've watched GOMTV since before Flash could beat Jaedong in 2007 or 2008 where Tasteless casted alone until he was joined by SuperDanielMan. From back then until the last 6-12 months I feel he had decent amount of game knowledge.
These days it is as if between his joking around while casting, which is great imho, he will try to say something about what is happening in the game and what is likely to happen but it's usually pretty wrong. You can tell Artosis knows it because he always replies with something like "Ahh yep." when Tasteless says something incorrect then changes the subject.
I hope he gets back into StarCraft II but as quoted by TRaFFiC above it seems doubtful.
- Tasteless, I've watched your casting for about five years now and I'd like to keep watching it! Please commit more to StarCraft II and your fans by making StarCraft II as good as it has been in the past to watch.
i love tasteless to death, but plugging handsomenerd.com while symbol was crying in the booth was kinda too much. he should've directed people to his twiter or tl fanclub or something
also, i do think he doesnt have the passion for sc2 like he did for bw. i understand that, its a lesser game. it makes me sad, but he did so much to promote sc2, i cant really blame him for anything, he deserves everything he got out of it.
thanks tasteless <3
edit: also, on a subject of his game knowledge, when he asks artosis "should he now do this" or "would you just now switch into this" and similiar question, i think it's actually more for the viewers then himself, really. im barely breaking masters league on EU, and i still find some of those questions really good, strategy-wise. so no i dont think he has lacking game knowledge, but i do think he lacks enthousiasm for sc2. which are two separate subjects
Does he still play the game? I never see him alluding to that.
This is not meant to be criticism but rather genuine curiousity, I love Tastosis and if it weren't for them, I would have stopped caring about SC2 a long long time ago.
I'd just like to know where casters stand in their ability to play relative top-players and pro-gamers.
the problem i find the most annoying is that they (tasteless and artosis) make jokes about people on the foreign community that no everybody should know of... i mean if i wanna show sc2 to my friends and try to make them understand the game, talking about incontrol's space marines is not going to help...
There is a difference between criticizing Tasteless personality and his casting. No amount of fans, and defense can change the fact that he is not interested about the game off the record. Artosis is casting, Tasteless is trying to cast. If you do things because you used to do it, but not because you want to do it - it shows everytime.
I've come full circle. I used to love Tastless, then I started to prefer other play by play casters but now, I imply think Tastless is perfect for the GSL. His casting is relaxed and his casting doesn't make me anxious the same way Day9's or Apollo's casting does; stressing their voice when it really is not needed.
I actually feel like I'm watching a professional caster when I listen to Tasteless, in the sense that he's very comfortable casting the GSL and with Artosis.
On July 11 2012 19:31 TRaFFiC wrote: I love Tasteless to death, but he seems to have left sc2 behind. I doubt he plays more than a few hours a week or watches replays. He's stuck commentating like he did 1+ years ago. It's starting to become embarrassing for him. He has nothing to contribute to Artosis whatsoever. Just sticks to stating the obvious.
I wish he would come back to sc2, but that is doubtful.
It's like a government job in a European country. Once you got it, stop working. What's the point of working when you can't be fired?
Very true, according to a Sabin, a guy working as a producer for MLG's fighting game division, Tasteless told him that he doesn't even play starcraft anymore, he simply shows up for his casting work. I think we're at the poin where most people are knowledgeable enough that Tasteles' glaring misstakes and ignorance when it comes to the game are starting to show.
According to who and what? This is how rumors are started and drama starts molding. Please don't start stating something because he say or she said said this and that.
I find Tasteless' supposed lack of play/in depth game knowledge irrelevant. He still knows more about the game than most players and definitely more than most spectators. He's very good at providing play by play and letting Artosis provide analysis which makes for a great combination.
On July 11 2012 21:08 snailz wrote: i love tasteless to death, but plugging handsomenerd.com while symbol was crying in the booth was kinda too much. he should've directed people to his twiter or tl fanclub or something
That was massive sellout move lol.... I remember tastosis hyping Symbol up so much in the GSTL
I brought three of my non-gaming friends to MLG Anaheim to booze and watch my passion with me. Every one of them, at different times during the weekend, asked why Tasteless was casting as he seemed to "know less than the other guys" and/or was far less engaged than the other casters. Small sample size obviously, but worth noting.
I liked Tasteless in 2010; however, 2012 Tasteless doesn't have 1/10th the passion that Artosis does and that is reflected in every cast now. He seems like a good guy, just a good guy who doesn't really care about SC anymore and is simply riding out a gig. There is no hunger there any longer. He often falls back on the same tired patterns, has a medicore (at best) knowledge of current playstyles, and often makes incorrect calls, leaving Artosis to gracefully clean up after him.
Hope he finds his hunger or moves on to another endeavor. He's a sharp guy, he will absolutely find something.
On July 11 2012 19:38 Sherlock-Canada wrote: Not really concerned about Tasteless' knowledge of the game. This is classic sportscasting, adapted to Starcraft: get a guy with charisma to dictate the what's happening, have a smarter guy to give you a bit more theory, a bit more history, and a bit more of the implications. If you've ever watched other sports, this is an extremely standard casting setup, and I rather like it.
EDIT: And if I never heard Khaldor's voice again, I die a happy man.
Starcraft isn't like mainstream sports. It's much more complex. Increased game knowledge will always increase a caster's appeal. And the fact that he's the play by play guy doesn't excuse saying a bunch of things that are incorrect, which he undeniably does.
I'm a huge fan of doa, an excellent caster. I know it's tradition to have one analyst and one play by play caster, but I still think Artosis / doa would make a wicked combo
Meh, if Tasteless hadn't teamed up with Artosis, he'd have long gone down the Moletrap route imo. If Artosis quit commentating tomorrow (which would be a huge loss, he's an amazing caster and a cool personality), Tasteless would immediately become irrelevant.
liked Tasteless in 2010; however, 2012 Tasteless doesn't have 1/10th the passion that Artosis does and that is reflected in every cast now. He seems like a good guy, just a good guy who doesn't really care about SC anymore and is simply riding out a gig. There is no hunger there any longer. He often falls back on the same tired patterns, has a medicore (at best) knowledge of current playstyles, and often makes incorrect calls, leaving Artosis to gracefully clean up after him.
1. "Yeah, there is not much going on here/no too much to say about what is going on right now guys."
Alright, even if both players are playing standard and we won't see any actions for another good 5 minutes, it is YOUR job, as a caster, to eliminate the awkward silences between player introduction and the first big engagement. Talk about the special features of the map, talk about the race win % of the map, talk about each player's opening, talk about each player's strength, weakness, strong MU, weak MU, the metagame shift (example: "right now tons of people think Zerg is OP due to the range buff on Queens allowing for....." etc.) heck talk about the NEXT map if (if you know what it is) is better than telling the audience "yeah nothing going on here" or "player X is building a depot. player Y is building an overlord".
2. Since I am a DRG fan, I actually noticed the fact that Tasteless have actually NEVER said DRG's real ID which is DongRaeGu. He is introduced as such by the Korean street-fighter voice guy however every time, every FUCKING time Tasteless (and you too Artosis) just uses the acronym DRG. He doesn't do that for MarineKingPrime (uses MKP instead of MarineKing every time) is it because he feels silly saying "Dong" or what is up with that?
I loved Tasteless when I saw him back in 2010 and even way after that (until mid 2011), he just had such great and funny stories to tell and the chemistry between him and Artosis was just perfect. Just think about all the great moments where he talked about that donut story or pirate bird, while nothing exciting happened and Artosis and Tasteless where talking about what you could do at home, while they had a break. For some reason Tasteless doesn´t talk about such things anymore, which I miss a lot from him.
If I had to pinpoint a time were I felt that Tasteless began to change, I would say it was about the time when they showed the GSL SC2 Tasteless accomplishment montage at Blizzcon 2011.
IMHO Tasteless is a great caster, he probably has some personal matters to solve for himself until he can cast with that same energy and passion again. Life is not easy and everyone who struggles hard will come back even better and with much joy.
I am patient, I can wait. We should believe in him. He´s Tasteless after all.
One thing that I've noticed about many casters, and in this case GSL specifically, is that they are not prepared with any statistics that are not compiled and displayed by Gom during the match (which sometimes even seems to catch them off-guard). This would be a great way to kill some of the downtime while players are macroing without having to say, "Sooo not much will be happening for a while guys...Artosis ask me a question".
Plenty of other casters in sports have stat cheat sheets to which they can refer during the game. Take baseball for instance - there's a ton of time where not much is happening, and casters are prepared with batting averages, righty-lefty splits, home vs away performance, etc. With regards to SC2, it'd be great if they had something like that prepared to discuss especially when they are casting games where they expect to have some time to kill i.e. players known for going heavy macro builds.
It may also help them frame the stats displayed by GOM in better context, rather than just saying "oh so Marineking typically wins his games between the 15-18 minute mark*, that's interesting". Tell me why - what builds does he do that favor that timing? Or when a player's record on a map is displayed - is their winrate low because they lost a couple games to cheese? How does it relate to the racial trend?, but use hard numbers like, Terran is 12-25 against Z on Metropolis*, but Marineking is 3-1*, while also being prepared to explain what he did differently in those games and why other T tend to fail without falling back to just saying he's "better"; we already know that.
I still love the work that they do and the casting is one of the reasons I'm a full-year GSL subscriber. I do have a soft spot for solo Wolf casting though...I thought he did a fantastic job.
Edit: the * is not intended to be factually accurate
Tasteless has heard all you guys and is making an effort. He's being much more analytical with his casting, and he's relating in his own experiences as a player.
Being fun and analytical at the same time is possible. I do agree with OP that tasteless contribution often is pretty weak in comparison to artosis. Look at Day9, he's able to be comedic while being very analytical. I know tasteless have a lot of knowledge of the situation, so I hope he has more opportunity to be more analytical. Today was a good improvement
On July 12 2012 19:16 PH wrote: Watching tonight's GSL cast...code S ro8 day 2.
Tasteless has heard all you guys and is making an effort. He's being much more analytical with his casting, and he's relating in his own experiences as a player.
Hm I'm watching it too and I am not sure wether what ur saying is true. I'm noticing that I find myself quite annoyed by his very fast conclusions. Not that he's that wrong all the time, it just is not fun to listen to when he's declaring people being "a wreck" or "falling apart", only when there is a drop not being dealt with asap, because another attack on the other half of the map is going on. Might be I'm just biased about players but in general I just hate all too negative casting. FGS, try to focus on players being amazing and don't just pimp ur own shit. Perfect example for yesterday, that has been brought up already:
Don't pimp ur goddam site when Symbol is crying in his booth, pimp Symbol's twitter and make people cheer him up. Or pimp Seed's, he did an amazing job...what was going on there was just very insensitive and showed sb. ego being too big. Or maybe he's just too used to pimping his own stuff and going down the list in his head instead of reacting in a less egocentric way... I dunno.
On July 12 2012 19:29 sc2guy wrote: I think Tasteless has lost his passion for SC2. My opinion only.
Maybe we should have a poll whether or not Tasteless lost his passion, because you just repeated like what, 50% of people said? But in the simplest manner.
I still like the good ol Tasteless, I don't think he lost his passion for Starcraft at all and I don't understand what creates the opinions that he did. He doesn't sound bored, he's still funny(or trying to be for people who don't find him funny I guess) hes trying to be analytical
And yeah I think some people are judging tasteless because of one single mistake hes made, well I got something to tell you, everybody makes mistakes.
On July 12 2012 19:29 sc2guy wrote: I think Tasteless has lost his passion for SC2. My opinion only.
Maybe we should have a poll whether or not Tasteless lost his passion, because you just repeated like what, 50% of people said? But in the simplest manner.
I still like the good ol Tasteless, I don't think he lost his passion for Starcraft at all and I don't understand what creates the opinions that he did. He doesn't sound bored, he's still funny(or trying to be for people who don't find him funny I guess) hes trying to be analytical
And yeah I think some people are judging tasteless because of one single mistake hes made, well I got something to tell you, everybody makes mistakes.
Actually I am more interested in which non pro player is the most passionate about SC2. I see a tie between Artosis and Day9/
I love Tasteless' casting and I think the silent majority does.
If he reads this thread (which he probably doesn't because the constructive criticism went downhill a long time ago and the whole thread is kind of pointless by now) he shouldn't have a bad feeling. People talking about how another person lost his passion for something the person spends his entire work and a lot of energy on is really rude and can by no means or definition of the word be called constructive (or a true statement in that regard).
I think he just needs to formulate his own opinion rather than copying whatever Artosis says. Which he can't do, without actually spending time playing the game. His knowledge of the metagame needs to be heightened in order for him to formulate his own opinions.
I have never played a game of SC2 in my life, and I still rabidly watch pretty much any tournament that's available to me. Tasteless was a large part of the reason why, the dude is hilarious and explains things fairly well to morons like myself Then I get Artosis' side of things which is much higher level.
Plus, they have great synergy, although the interesting thing about Artosis is that it seems like he has great synergy with like, any co-caster he's with
tl;dr thanks Tasteless for making so SC2 fun to watch
Saying he should be more like Artosis and stuff like that. It's just not going to work, in a duo two people have to complement one another, not be identical. They are 9 out of 10 in my book.
Tasteless is a great caster, I love his personality and I hope he doesnt read this thread because it's nothing constructive here, people are just expressing their opinions (not everyone enjoys the same kind of casting for example I had to turn off teamliquids stream the other day because I cant stand husky and day9 yelling and screaming just to try and top eachother with fake enthusiasm, but obviously several thousands of viewers didnt mind)
Too me, Tasteless is doing an absolute great job of both taking time to explain the players train of thougts with very basic things to new viewers, which is a thing most casters dont care about, and being able to analyze and understand the game on a very high level. In between this he's being hillarious, explaining what's going on and doing some play by play plus giving viewers a good picture of what's going on off-screen in the game.
Not the best example I know, but back in the 90s or early 2000s there was a commentating duo for WWF that was very successful at the time. One of the guys was always wrong, uninformed, or biased towards the unpopular opponent, while the other was more comparable to Artosis. It was staged to try and make things more entertaining, and it wasn't a bad idea. Tasteless isn't as cheesy as the guy I'm talking about, but my point is that you don't need another Artosis to make a duo cast successful. People have different preferences, enjoy the half of the duo that you like, and realize that Tasteless may be more appealing to someone who isn't you.
this is the caster metagame. you LOVE every caster at one point and then you HATE them. you call it constructive criticism but you really mean you're bored of them. last time? wolf. next time? day9
On July 12 2012 22:04 Voltaire wrote: I think Tasteless and Artosis should talk about as much sex as they can. I also think they should use really graphic sexual imagery.
yeah and to top if of, one day they should just stream videos of animal sex from youtube and make sounds as if 2 dongs were clashing in the background.
then they could have swordfights (with real swords obviously) and tasteless can wear his onepiece-swimsuit with a bathing cap.
Personally I feel like there arent enough onepieceswimsuits and bathing caps on air, tasteless def needs more of those in order to become a better caster.
Please take this as constructive critisism, no flaming.
On June 12 2011 15:08 pc_room_freak wrote: I'm a big fan of tastosis, but does anybody else find tasteless slightly inexperienced as a caster? (inexperienced as in, making rookie mistakes, not his actual experience) I don't know about him being commentator in bw, but from the gsl's i noticed he's
1.) overly repetitive in diction- for example "he's so SOLID", "he's playing so GOOD", "it's going to be so COOL". I don't understand why he can't use... more descriptive words whenever he's trying to add something to the cast. Not only that, he just constantly overuses these words, making him sound like a broken record sometimes. It's weird since he seems quite articulate in casual settings.
2.) cuts Artosis off too frequently, at the wrong times -only to add "he's so GOOD" Artosis is the commentator, let him get technical with his part, and cut him off when u have to (ie when something happens on the map).
3.) needs to be more PROFESSIONAL -I'm not even talking about the eating and drinking during matches. i don't think this "relaxed mindset" during casting is so detrimental to the event,,, but..
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously? **THIS DOES NOT MEAN he should stop fooling around and start casting seriously. the Lax casting is a part of his charm, for the billionth time i've mentioned. Needing more professionalism DOESNT mean they need to stop being hilarious.
I know i might come off sounding too critical, but i realized Tastosis is and will most likely be the "voice" of starcraft 2 (for the foreigners, at least). Both casters are very likable, and i would like nothing more than the very best, since i'm one of those people who watches GSL's due to entertainment value i get from listening to you guys.
Thanks
**To the people who obviously is being overprotective of our casters, realize that this is NOTHING personal. Throwing out these facts isn't going to hurt anybody.
Tastosis has said this before they have no limits on what they can say during air, sex isn't an offensive word, or a word that should be used cautiously, do you watch tv? sex is commonly used.
On July 12 2012 22:04 Voltaire wrote: I think Tasteless and Artosis should talk about as much sex as they can. I also think they should use really graphic sexual imagery.
yeah and to top if of, one day they should just stream videos of animal sex from youtube and make sounds as if 2 dongs were clashing in the background.
then they could have swordfights (with real swords obviously) and tasteless can wear his onepiece-swimsuit with a bathing cap.
Personally I feel like there arent enough onepieceswimsuits and bathing caps on air, tasteless def needs more of those in order to become a better caster.
Please take this as constructive critisism, no flaming.
I cant help but notice how many "SO" he makes in his comments. "He's so far ahead." "He's so behind." "He's so..." Its really getting to that stage where some of us have noticed that his commentary is almost like clockwork. It doesn't help he doesnt have that ingame knowledge as much as Artosis (guessing he doesnt play the game as much anymore, not noticing trends on Korean ladder) but the fact that Tasteless is really starting to get 'tasteless', cliche as it sounds. His commentary is starting to get stale and he has some insecurity issues when he's up there casting with Artosis. I don't know if its obvious but I've picked that up from a long time ago - he's really got some insecurity issues. Making sweeping statements and calling the game early, "ALRIGHT I GUESS ITS GG at decisive points of the battle" is really starting to get to him. The game feels like, well at least to me, Tasteless just waiting for the moment which HE thinks the game is over and mouthing the golden words "Alright, onto game number 2."
Sadly, it feels like he just wants to get the thing done and over with. Not sure if I'm just delusional or what, but that's my honest 2 cents.
This will sound like I got a mancrush on Artosis but I'll also add my points to this lol
First of all I think that the quality of casters is mainly decided by the first look. At first I liked Husky, Day9, Tastosis, djWHEAT, Doa, Khaldor and TaKe and I still like them. People who never made an impact in the first seconds I listened kinda fall back even though they are technically not bad casters like Wolf or Mowltrap (is that how he is spelled?). It's just some weird and very subjective way of judging but if I do so, others might aswell.
Also very important when it comes to judging casters is my personal mood. Sometimes I came home from a shitty day of work and I watched tournaments and the casters seemed way worse than on a weekend with free time.
My next point - and this is why I mentioned the Artosis is the beginning - is that Tasteless has a hard time next to Artosis who is so much more analytical, less repetitive, damn funny and also has the smoother voice. I think there aren't many people who can cast for such a long time next to Artosis without being eaten by his presence. So of course, Tasteless looks bad from time to time but it's actually not that bad if you look closer.
And because of all the points above we shouldn't really critisize this hard, I think. The OP is kinda right with his opinion and expressed it well but many others here just shit on casters/Tasteless for the fun of it.
All that Tasteless really does is make bad jokes. There's a reason why he don't want to cast with anybody else than Artosis, coz he know he's gonna come out bad. Everyone was superhyped for the first MLG with Plott brothers, but guess what? Tasteless refused to cast with anyone but Artosis. Don't think you can call him a great caster if he can only cast with Artosis.
On July 12 2012 22:04 Voltaire wrote: I think Tasteless and Artosis should talk about as much sex as they can. I also think they should use really graphic sexual imagery.
haha
I really enjoyed Tasteless today, don't get what people find wrong about him.
Was really sad to see another great tournament (think it was ROG) announcing that they will fly in wolf and khaldor for this. These guys are just not really my thing
On July 12 2012 04:58 ref4 wrote: My constructive criticism for Tasteless:
2. Since I am a DRG fan, I actually noticed the fact that Tasteless have actually NEVER said DRG's real ID which is DongRaeGu. He is introduced as such by the Korean street-fighter voice guy however every time, every FUCKING time Tasteless (and you too Artosis) just uses the acronym DRG. He doesn't do that for MarineKingPrime (uses MKP instead of MarineKing every time) is it because he feels silly saying "Dong" or what is up with that?
I see a lot of people giving good constructive criticism in here, but this? I don't even...
So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
They are the perfect combination. They have a really good analysis person in Artosis and a noob friendly who explains the little things of the game in Tastless
On July 12 2012 22:52 Pandemona wrote: So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
just a quick question; Is Artosis really that high level? I honestly dont see it, I know im in no way a GM or even master, but most of the times I dont understand what's so indepth of what artosis is saying, he's pointing out some obvious things and other times he's just wrong.
I've never said anything because I feel like the faultry is on my part and not on his, but I wish he'd take time to dumb down why some things are so great because most of the times I see the difference in the play that he points out but I dont understand what's so insanely great about it.
On July 12 2012 22:52 Pandemona wrote: So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
just a quick question; Is Artosis really that high level? I honestly dont see it, I know im in no way a GM or even master, but most of the times I dont understand what's so indepth of what artosis is saying, he's pointing out some obvious things and other times he's just wrong.
I've never said anything because I feel like the faultry is on my part and not on his, but I wish he'd take time to dumb down why some things are so great because most of the times I see the difference in the play that he points out but I dont understand what's so insanely great about it.
He obviously has a huge background in BW, played SC2 from the start, is a masters player (i believe) and well woven in in the korean scene. In my opinion his excellence is in player and build knowledge, he often says *yeah i have seen xxx use this build before and yyy also plays it from time to time but this here is a new variation*...
On July 12 2012 22:52 Pandemona wrote: So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
just a quick question; Is Artosis really that high level? I honestly dont see it, I know im in no way a GM or even master, but most of the times I dont understand what's so indepth of what artosis is saying, he's pointing out some obvious things and other times he's just wrong.
I've never said anything because I feel like the faultry is on my part and not on his, but I wish he'd take time to dumb down why some things are so great because most of the times I see the difference in the play that he points out but I dont understand what's so insanely great about it.
He obviously has a huge background in BW, played SC2 from the start, is a masters player (i believe) and well woven in in the korean scene. In my opinion his excellence is in player and build knowledge, he often says *yeah i have seen xxx use this build before and yyy also plays it from time to time but this here is a new variation*...
all your statements are true but doesnt really answer my question, thank you for trying though.
ps the dots at the end really makes u come of a lot more arrogant than what I'd assume is your intention.
On July 12 2012 22:52 Pandemona wrote: So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
just a quick question; Is Artosis really that high level? I honestly dont see it, I know im in no way a GM or even master, but most of the times I dont understand what's so indepth of what artosis is saying, he's pointing out some obvious things and other times he's just wrong.
I've never said anything because I feel like the faultry is on my part and not on his, but I wish he'd take time to dumb down why some things are so great because most of the times I see the difference in the play that he points out but I dont understand what's so insanely great about it.
He obviously has a huge background in BW, played SC2 from the start, is a masters player (i believe) and well woven in in the korean scene. In my opinion his excellence is in player and build knowledge, he often says *yeah i have seen xxx use this build before and yyy also plays it from time to time but this here is a new variation*...
I don't know what his level of play is, but his understanding of the game is at a top tier level. As a caster, there is no physical possible way to maintain tip-top gaming shape while fulfilling your work obligations while learning about everything about everyone's strategy, play style, etc. There's also no way to be always correct about what's going to happen.... you can predict a player's choice given the hints but you can't prophesize it. Besides, it takes an immense amount of knowledge to even make an educated guess about what a player plans to do by looking at his game choices.
He played in the GSL in the beta i do believe, or early seasons anyways, he was huge in BW, but i think what your forgetting is that not everyone else is a top masters or gm player, so he is stating things in lamens terms, so that the average viewer can understand the mindset of the player and because they gain this knowledge they get a better understanding of what is happening and then it becomes more interesting as a viewer.
It would be like somebody who has never watched football before, never been told about it, and started watching their first game, they wouldnt understand any of the mechanics, which makes the game so enthralling.
Possibly a slightly exaggerated example but i think you get my point.
On July 12 2012 22:52 Pandemona wrote: So do you want two casters discussing high end level mechanics that only GMs would understand? Or would you like one guy (Artosis) doing this and the other (Tasteless) being more noob friendly for those in Masters league and below to help make them follow in the loop? I'd much prefer the second. The best casters/commentators are the one who knows the most and the other who brings a different aspect, it doesn't have to be a funny aspect it could be just the knowledge of being there and have done it, for example football commentators are always in pairs, you have the guy with all the stats and the good voice who does the majority of talking about the live action with added stats to throw in to keep viewers interested if the game is boring, and you have the seasoned professional at his side, giving his view and opinion on the game or even tactics (like Gary Neville did and Andy Grey) im sure this is the same in other sports in America too. The list is endless for commentator duo's like the footballing ones throughout sports Boxing/Snooker/Cricket/Tennis it's all based around the same sort of style Tastosis are bringing to the GSL every day and there other adventures. One tells you everything that is going on to the upmost indepth knowledge whilst the other is dumbing things down for the lower ended viewers and also throwing in funnies whilst the play is not all that entertaining (take the first 5-6minutes of a quick expo game)
just a quick question; Is Artosis really that high level? I honestly dont see it, I know im in no way a GM or even master, but most of the times I dont understand what's so indepth of what artosis is saying, he's pointing out some obvious things and other times he's just wrong.
I've never said anything because I feel like the faultry is on my part and not on his, but I wish he'd take time to dumb down why some things are so great because most of the times I see the difference in the play that he points out but I dont understand what's so insanely great about it.
Artosis has a very solid understanding of high level SC2 and the current metagame and he articulates it well. As one small example out of hundreds, do you understand why both Genius and Naniwa were avoiding stalkers in their game 3 on Ohana, and why that meant that archons would be a good choice as they rounded out their compositions? Artosis did and explained it well.
I thing he does his job of being fucking awesome very well, can't really find any major criticism for Arotsis or Tasteless... not that there wouldn't be but how good they are compared to all other casters/duos... makes it fucking hard to spot the "mistakes".
While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
The only thing that has really bothered me about Tastosis and their casting is the lack of knowledge about the match histories of the players. I know it is impossible to recall every game a player has ever played, but whenever a big match is happening, I would hope they could recall some of major games of their careers, previous matchups between the current competitors. What I find is that sometimes they will refer to player through the same game or small set of games for months, even after they have evolved past that point. I know that Artosis has said he doesn't watch every game and can't watch ever game, and I completely understand, so this is not a major criticism.
I don't know what you guys mean, I watched a BW cast with Tasteless and he is exactly the same as he is today. If he has lost his passion he is hiding it very well (for me at least). I sincerely hope you havent lost your passion Tasteless!
Nick Plott ftw, really good caster! Keep on keeping on!
On July 13 2012 01:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
Maybe try reading? The OP is over a year old, now the criticism concerns his game knowledge.
On July 13 2012 01:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
Just keep going with that hive mind mentality you've got going, I'm sure that will work out well for you. There are several excellent posts in here pointing out flaws in his casting in a very constructive manner, only a fanboy would miss that fact. You need to have the ability so separate the person from his work, criticism isn't the same thing as hatred.
I disagree with everyone who thinks Tasteless is overhyped as a caster, and Artosis is way better than him. I don't care what anyone tells me, I just think it is important for people like Tasteless to know that there are people like me that think he is a way better caster than Artosis ! Never give up Mr. Nick Plott ! Tasteless > All !!!
Not the most appropriate thread during a Plott family emergency
Tasteless and artosis make an amazing team.
Sure neither of them are their usual 120% all the time ... but they cast for HOURS AND HOURS ... havent done the maths bu ti bet i have literally spent months of my life giggling along with those 2. Even my wife finds them funny - and its usually tasteless that sets her off tbh.
of course you can OD on them and pick holes. But the fact is they manage to have funny casts that are insightful and they can always find something interesting in the most boring of games.
So if i have to put up with someones diction - that incidently is a large part of defining who they are - becoming slightly repetative because i watched WAY too much of them ....
Thats awesome.
Its kinda funny - its the GSL casters I come back to time and time again.
I'm going to have to agree to a point. Tasteless is becoming complacent.
He is top notch along with Artosis (the Casting Archon) there is no aruging that. I have watched a lot of other casters and I cannot say I like many. The C.A. is by far my favorite to listen to. I understand having fun while casting but Tasteless, of late, I feel has lost some of that professionalism he once had.
On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth. Artosis is very technically proficient in the Starcraft universe. And I'm positive Tasteless is as well, but he doesn't often demonstrate that certain aesthetic sense he once had.
I don't see hosts on the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc., talking like some of the people that are trying to make a living in this casting career. This hurts Esports, casters, and reputations of the games themselves. Telling the community to "grow up" and "if it offends you" is wholly the wrong answer. Both situations are alienating, especially when trying to pull an audience/sponsors that may be sitting on the fence.
On July 13 2012 05:48 PauseBreak wrote: I'm going to have to agree to a point. Tasteless is becoming complacent.
He is top notch along with Artosis (the Casting Archon) there is no aruging that. I have watched a lot of other casters and I cannot say I like many. The C.A. is by far my favorite to listen to. I understand having fun while casting but Tasteless, of late, I feel has lost some of that professionalism he once had.
On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth. Artosis is very technically proficient in the Starcraft universe. And I'm positive Tasteless is as well, but he doesn't often demonstrate that certain aesthetic sense he once had.
I don't see hosts on the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc., talking like some of the people that are trying to make a living in this casting career. This hurts Esports, casters, and reputations of the games themselves. Telling the community to "grow up" and "if it offends you" is wholly the wrong answer. Both situations are alienating, especially when trying to pull an audience/sponsors that may be sitting on the fence.
There is nothing wrong with the way Tasteless represents himself in casts. You think that commentators don't make jokes on NBA? Look at Charles Barkley or whoever else is on the NBA panel they make rude jokes all the time and screw around. If a commentator can do his job but also make it pleasant to watch the cast then they are doing everything correct. You think most people would rather have a pure professional cast from tasteless and Artosis with no jokes or banter or the occasional explicit joke? I wouldn't.. so without telling you to "grow up" i would tell you to re-evaluate how you look at this situation.
On July 13 2012 05:48 PauseBreak wrote: I'm going to have to agree to a point. Tasteless is becoming complacent.
He is top notch along with Artosis (the Casting Archon) there is no aruging that. I have watched a lot of other casters and I cannot say I like many. The C.A. is by far my favorite to listen to. I understand having fun while casting but Tasteless, of late, I feel has lost some of that professionalism he once had.
On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth. Artosis is very technically proficient in the Starcraft universe. And I'm positive Tasteless is as well, but he doesn't often demonstrate that certain aesthetic sense he once had.
I don't see hosts on the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc., talking like some of the people that are trying to make a living in this casting career. This hurts Esports, casters, and reputations of the games themselves. Telling the community to "grow up" and "if it offends you" is wholly the wrong answer. Both situations are alienating, especially when trying to pull an audience/sponsors that may be sitting on the fence.
If this is esports in the future, I don't want it. I like the way it is now, people just having fun commentating games - not being scared to make a joke in case it offends someone/*potential* sponsors.
Tasteless is .... IS... one of the best casters in Starcraft. Period. Criticizing the best caster is like criticizing Michael Jordan for having no 3 point shot. WHO CARES. They are the best at what they do.
People like apollo... which i hate his style... but you don't see myself make a post about him.
Artosis and Tasteless are the pinnacle of casting. Without them, I would never watch another GSL Code S again. I don't watch code A because they aren't casting it.
Tasteless is baws, end of story. People don't seem to understand the purposeful dynamic that they have built, of which Tasteless fulfills his part perfectly.
People criticizing are just jealous because Tasteless is the most handsome guy on the planet. Also what you guys need to realize is that he is being very nice to us, he could be winning GSL, GSTL, OSL, PL - all of these by himself and just by stepping into the booth. He doesn't even need to touch the keyboard and the mouse. He's just not doing this because he wants us to have suspense and discuss other players, he also does that because if he steps into the booth lots of progamers and proteams would be loosing their job.
Stop saying bad stuff about Tasteless, if you do that you might get struck by a lighting bolt. It's true. People have died already.
On July 13 2012 08:49 Kamikiri wrote: To be honest, Starcraft 2 in general has become boring for me to watch.
The only thing that keeps me watching Starcraft 2 is casts with Tasteless & Artosis.
tbh this goes for me to, i dont watch any IPL or anything, i watch specific stuff based on commentators, like maybe a grand final or something with incontrol/tastosis/idra/a korean thats not fluent in english tries to cast. SC2 is not as good as bw as a spectator sport X_X
There is a reason why GOMTV keeps Tasteless. He is good at analyzing and being funny. And about the sex part, I think it's ok to mention it, I don't know why you think it is sooooo taboo :/
On July 13 2012 01:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
Just keep going with that hive mind mentality you've got going, I'm sure that will work out well for you. There are several excellent posts in here pointing out flaws in his casting in a very constructive manner, only a fanboy would miss that fact. You need to have the ability so separate the person from his work, criticism isn't the same thing as hatred.
Indeed. This absolute fanboyism is ridiculous and obvious that people who are against this thread's sentiment in general aren't considering it from the criticisers point of view. I think it's great that casters are friends outside of their professional lives, obviously they create an amazing chemistry and just general comfort to be themselves and relax while doing their job. Problem I think is that Artosis when doing his job goes into job mode, while Tasteless just turns up and talks like he's at the pub with Dan aka Artosis my mate not Dan aka Artosis the professional.
Honestly, what does Tasteless contribute nowadays? "Errr err I remember that game .. errr ... oh forget it." Artosis then tries to rescue the situation by providing strategic analysis of the current game's situation. Tasteless comes back in with a cringe worthy joke. I don't expect him to know everything, just be a TotalBiscuit if you have to and commentate on what's happening, let Artosis be the intelligent analysts, but don't pander to the audience and patronise us with the stupid jokes and think everybody will continue to blindly love you.
On July 13 2012 05:48 PauseBreak wrote: I'm going to have to agree to a point. Tasteless is becoming complacent.
He is top notch along with Artosis (the Casting Archon) there is no aruging that. I have watched a lot of other casters and I cannot say I like many. The C.A. is by far my favorite to listen to. I understand having fun while casting but Tasteless, of late, I feel has lost some of that professionalism he once had.
On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth. Artosis is very technically proficient in the Starcraft universe. And I'm positive Tasteless is as well, but he doesn't often demonstrate that certain aesthetic sense he once had.
I don't see hosts on the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc., talking like some of the people that are trying to make a living in this casting career. This hurts Esports, casters, and reputations of the games themselves. Telling the community to "grow up" and "if it offends you" is wholly the wrong answer. Both situations are alienating, especially when trying to pull an audience/sponsors that may be sitting on the fence.
If this is esports in the future, I don't want it. I like the way it is now, people just having fun commentating games - not being scared to make a joke in case it offends someone/*potential* sponsors.
Look up Jay Onrait and Dan O Toole for TSN broadcasters Their best of vid is hilarious.
Not telling jokes isn't the future Sports "reporters/casters" on Canadian TV aren't worried about making jokes. It wont go away
Don't understand the people who say that Tasteless should be shielded from constructive criticism. No one is perfect, everyone has room for improvement. You can't deny Tasteless' low game knowledge. You also can't deny that an increase in game knowledge will increase any SC2 caster's appeal. Therefore, even though I love Tastosis right now, I do think they could be even better if Tasteless knew his stuff.
On July 13 2012 08:49 Kamikiri wrote: To be honest, Starcraft 2 in general has become boring for me to watch.
The only thing that keeps me watching Starcraft 2 is casts with Tasteless & Artosis.
tbh this goes for me to, i dont watch any IPL or anything, i watch specific stuff based on commentators, like maybe a grand final or something with incontrol/tastosis/idra/a korean thats not fluent in english tries to cast. SC2 is not as good as bw as a spectator sport X_X
Yea I agree. SC2 is largely boring to watch unless u have AMAZING games(very fucking rare) or amazing casters. The only ones I watch are Artosis and Tasteless and Bitterdam. Also any homestory casting is also fucking awesome.
On July 13 2012 04:54 yeint wrote: This thread really didn't need necroing.
Tasteless will never read it, nor does he have to. He's wildly popular, and should just keep doing what he's doing.
It's perfectly fine that you don't prefer his style. But this is just mewling.
Yup Tasteless is perfect and there's no room for constructive criticism. Popularity = perfection and there's no room for him to get even better.
Just because you label your criticism as "constructive" doesn't make it that.
I just have to cringe several times EVERY GAME when he says something that so fundamentally misses the mark.
Not constructive. The one example you gave is completely spurious.
And even if your criticism was actually "constructive", Tasteless will not read this thread. The vast majority of posts since your necro have been subjective nonsense.
Apart from completely unquantifiable things like "he's lost his passion" and "his game knowledge is poor", people are literally complaining that he fills dead air with jokes instead of "theorycrafting". This is subjective. This is your personal preference.
I've skimmed through the last pages and I don't see a single example brought up by anyone that would illustrate his supposedly glaring lack of knowledge.
On July 13 2012 05:48 PauseBreak wrote: On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth.
Esports already is legitimate. There's nothing illegitimate about slightly off-color jokes. I suppose you think Louis CK's comedy is also aimed at adolescents (hint = it's not).
On July 13 2012 01:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
Just keep going with that hive mind mentality you've got going, I'm sure that will work out well for you. There are several excellent posts in here pointing out flaws in his casting in a very constructive manner, only a fanboy would miss that fact. You need to have the ability so separate the person from his work, criticism isn't the same thing as hatred.
Indeed. This absolute fanboyism is ridiculous and obvious that people who are against this thread's sentiment in general aren't considering it from the criticisers point of view. I think it's great that casters are friends outside of their professional lives, obviously they create an amazing chemistry and just general comfort to be themselves and relax while doing their job. Problem I think is that Artosis when doing his job goes into job mode, while Tasteless just turns up and talks like he's at the pub with Dan aka Artosis my mate not Dan aka Artosis the professional.
Honestly, what does Tasteless contribute nowadays? "Errr err I remember that game .. errr ... oh forget it." Artosis then tries to rescue the situation by providing strategic analysis of the current game's situation. Tasteless comes back in with a cringe worthy joke. I don't expect him to know everything, just be a TotalBiscuit if you have to and commentate on what's happening, let Artosis be the intelligent analysts, but don't pander to the audience and patronise us with the stupid jokes and think everybody will continue to blindly love you.
I don't think Tasteless is the strongest SC2 caster around right now, but I definitely don't see what you're talking about...
Why are you hating on the demi god I worship every tues/thurs? blood of my day9?
Ok all jokes aside, tasteless could be more detailed on the game at hand (like vague "this is really bad" scenarios), but I wouldn't trade it for all the funny jokes and commentaries he makes. I think most TL pple want more analytical casters b/c we all play sc2 a ton, but its extremely good to have a caster that can reach the casuals and help grow this game and esports.
Artosis feeds the super nerds and Tastless feeds the casuals. Casuals > super nerds.
Stop going so far off topic for so long. Its cool to sprinkle in jokes but you go on and on. Nobody wants that. Let me use an analogy. I love cake. One of my favorites is red velvet cake with icing on top. Now if I get a red velvet cake and there's no icing.. it's okay. But if someone gives me a plate of icing I'm going to tell them to take it away and bring me cake.
Your jokes that turn into long tangents are icing. Don't give us a plate of icing.
On July 13 2012 18:56 Probe1 wrote: Hey Tasteless (if you ever read this)
Stop going so far off topic for so long. Its cool to sprinkle in jokes but you go on and on. Nobody wants that. Let me use an analogy. I love cake. One of my favorites is red velvet cake with icing on top. Now if I get a red velvet cake and there's no icing.. it's okay. But if someone gives me a plate of icing I'm going to tell them to take it away and bring me cake.
Your jokes that turn into long tangents are icing. Don't give us a plate of icing.
interesting metaphor I kind of agree.
In a situation where absolutely nothing of interest is happening in the game AND neither tasteless nor artosis have anything to say about the gamers or their teams.... in this scenario I think it is actually not a bad idea to stretch out a story/joke.
- Please don't mention "sex" on-air again, or at least not say the word so downright. Esports is still largely unaccepted in society, even in korea (i'm a korean, so i know). If you don't act to the bare minimum on one of esports premier events, how do you expect people to start taking this sport seriously?
Can someone fill on me in on exactly what he said?
I think tasteless tries to be funny and entertaining. He is a great caster because he explains things that are happening really well. He attempts to give us the why X player does something, which is great if you don't know what is happening. Even though everyone who watches sc 2 is a top 20 GM and knows everything and would do it better. I really don't have any complaints when it comes to him.
On July 13 2012 01:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: While I'm all for constructive criticism I don't see where that's being brought up in this thread. You picked 3 things to complain about thatw were your own opinions and even false in terms of his experience. There's a reason tasteless stopped posting on TL. I assume he still browses but god I hope he avoids threads like these.
Just keep going with that hive mind mentality you've got going, I'm sure that will work out well for you. There are several excellent posts in here pointing out flaws in his casting in a very constructive manner, only a fanboy would miss that fact. You need to have the ability so separate the person from his work, criticism isn't the same thing as hatred.
Indeed. This absolute fanboyism is ridiculous and obvious that people who are against this thread's sentiment in general aren't considering it from the criticisers point of view. I think it's great that casters are friends outside of their professional lives, obviously they create an amazing chemistry and just general comfort to be themselves and relax while doing their job. Problem I think is that Artosis when doing his job goes into job mode, while Tasteless just turns up and talks like he's at the pub with Dan aka Artosis my mate not Dan aka Artosis the professional.
Honestly, what does Tasteless contribute nowadays? "Errr err I remember that game .. errr ... oh forget it." Artosis then tries to rescue the situation by providing strategic analysis of the current game's situation. Tasteless comes back in with a cringe worthy joke. I don't expect him to know everything, just be a TotalBiscuit if you have to and commentate on what's happening, let Artosis be the intelligent analysts, but don't pander to the audience and patronise us with the stupid jokes and think everybody will continue to blindly love you.
I'm sorry but everything about this comment makes it fairly obvious that you either havent seen a single tasteless cast this GSL season or that you are only listening to the stuff you don't like and are actively blocking out all the other things because what you are describing is the absolute opposite of my experience. Sure Tasteless had a bit of a rough patch at the end of last season but ever since GSL 3 he has been in absolute top casting condition, and he's even upping his game on the analytic front. Right now i couldn't be happier with his casting and i hope he keeps up this form for a long time.
Fortunately, I still really like watching SC2, and what we want as spectators isn't really unreasonable, which is that casters improve along with the rest of the show. It feels that Artosis constantly evolves, because he continually demonstrates high game understanding + that Artosis charm. All casters should strive to improve, but it's easy to get into a comfortable place that feels "good enough." Complacency catches up with you sooner or later, and that comfy spot becomes a rut.
Specifically on Tasteless, I actually enjoy his casting more when he's at MLG or other foreign events. I think it brings out a more professional side, while the GOM stuido is more casual for him. He tends to be really good during GSL finals for similar reasons.
The only thing that bothers me in regards to Tasteless is that he stutters a lot, like he's trying to say 10 words at the same time.. Other than that I really enjoy his and Artosis casting (although Artosis has some verbal stuff that annoys me, like repeating "OH SO quickly" 10 times per cast). Basically, they're my favorite casting duo
If he didn't ask for constructive criticism then what makes you think he even reads it... or gives a shit what kind of criticism he's getting?
He's a pro caster, either he knows about all of his flaws more acutely than we do, or he just doesn't give a shit. Believing that giving him tips on a TL thread will actually help him is ridiculous...
I actually think the other way around. Artosis is the worst of the two for me. He is supposed to play the technical role but lately he is quite often just unaware or flat out wrong regarding new strats. Especially that he didn't know the stuff Naniwa did vs DRG already was just odd as those builds have been around for some time. Sure tasteless repeats himself a bit too much sometimes but I don't mind it too much. Sure he could improve in some aspects but the perfect commentator doesn't exist anyways. I can't name a commentator in sports that is truly awesome anyway.
At least he doesn't give as much blatantly wrong or heinously oversimplified analysis anymore. He used to say much more stupid stuff during BW. I have always thought he was a horrendous caster since the old days of BW, and I can't think of a reason this will change. We need someone like Chill.
I don't see why all of TL needs to discuss this. Seems like its just an opportunity for all to poke fun at a great caster and community member. Regardless if there are a few posts that would help, 37 pages on this topic already makes those posts few and far between.
This OP should have been a PM to Tasteless. /End Thread
I just have to cringe several times EVERY GAME when he says something that so fundamentally misses the mark.
Not constructive. The one example you gave is completely spurious.
And even if your criticism was actually "constructive", Tasteless will not read this thread. The vast majority of posts since your necro have been subjective nonsense.
Apart from completely unquantifiable things like "he's lost his passion" and "his game knowledge is poor", people are literally complaining that he fills dead air with jokes instead of "theorycrafting". This is subjective. This is your personal preference.
I've skimmed through the last pages and I don't see a single example brought up by anyone that would illustrate his supposedly glaring lack of knowledge.
On July 13 2012 05:48 PauseBreak wrote: On a side note, people are demanding that 'Esports' be taken legitimately. And when you have professional casters talking like an adolescent referencing genitals and what have you, its not very couth.
Esports already is legitimate. There's nothing illegitimate about slightly off-color jokes. I suppose you think Louis CK's comedy is also aimed at adolescents (hint = it's not).
Nice job cherry picking one sentence out of all my posts and calling me not constructive lol. Your example isn't even offensive because it's true that Tasteless has significant miss-calls in every game. Lets try an accurate assessment of my posts:
" I only state this criticism because I think it would his casts with Artosis greatly"
"Tasteless does neither and for the sake of making GSL casts even better than they are now, he should improve. "
"I do enjoy Tastosis casts, but they still have a lot of untapped potential"
"Increased game knowledge will always increase a caster's appeal"
"I don't want to be too harsh because I appreciate the contributions he has made to the scene over the course of his career"
"Therefore, even though I love Tastosis right now, I do think they could be even better if Tasteless knew his stuff."
And I did provide an example of his low game knowledge in my necro post. I thought about posting a breakdown of a game I chose at random but figured it would be overly nit-picky and people would agree with the notion that his game knowledge is lower than it should be. And frankly if you don't think his game knowledge is low then I would question whether yours is any higher than his. But if you really think examples are necessary to prove the point I'll be happy to go back over some games.
EPT
But they're funny so no harm done.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1bgQ0.jpg)
