EPTGomTV caster: "Growth of e-sports" - Page 18
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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supdubdup
United States916 Posts
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dp
United States234 Posts
Waxangel - I have to ask, can you give me some examples? Which international players are making a majority of their money from tournament winnings? In a months time, how much potential loss is actually at stake? I see people point out these large online tournaments, such as NASL. At the same time they ignore the fact koreans are in those same tournaments, and not doing too shabby even with a lag disadvantage. And those small 100$ tournaments are won by many, many different players, and sure as hell are not the backbone of income for those people. So many international 'pros' are making their income from sponsors/streaming/coaching, all of which are not impossible to do from korea. The exposure in korea should actually increase those earnings in all cases, as long as you are able to perform aptly. I have no problem with players saying they do not want to go because they do not feel they have the ability to win or have personal reasons that can't be overlooked. That's fine. But tell it like it is and don't blame GOMTV for it. A poor comparison that I draw is from amateur poker players that I know. They win local house games, do decent in cash games in atlantic city and have taken down largish tournaments there for 5-10k. But at the same time, they don't want to put up 10k and place/living expenses to go to the world series of poker. Could they compete? Sure. Is the cash risk worth it to them? Not for now. They sure as hell don't blame the world series of poker for it though. | ||
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Xkalibert
United States1404 Posts
Some of the language and excuses I interpret from these posters are wah wah QQ, it's too hard for western pro gamers, the risk is too high, and the money is too low. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:44 Ruccola wrote:Premier Tournaments (Jan-Jun Code A to Dreamhack Summer) (Wiki2)Premier Tournaments Korean individual events: ~$685,000 NA/EU individual events: ~$292,000 (Note, you can include IGN PL S2 $50,000 for July as well since it is listed there but then GSL July prize pool also needs to be included which will further increase the difference) Major Tournaments (Wiki2)Major Tournaments World ~ $85,000 (euros/pounds roughly converted to dollars) Adding both up Korea : ~$685,000 World : ~$377,000 Note: You will need ~308 $1000 weekly tourneys or ~1540 $200 weekly tournaments to make up the balance. I doubt there have been that many scale tournaments to make up the difference. Conclusion: Even though the prize-pools are much more top heavy in Korea, the total prize pool in Korea is in fact higher than the rest of the world combined (possibly even after talking the countless smaller tournaments into account). For team tournaments as well(2011): (Wiki2)Team Tournaments Korea : ~$51,000 Rest of World: ~$32,000 Some food for thought If you can barely maintain Code S status, i.e. Ro32 each season and never progressing beyond that, you will make $1400 a month which is $5600 total (4 seasons). According to Prize Money Rank, that will put you in the ~Top 60 prize ranking for this year. Note, a lot of the people above you will still be Koreans. It seems people like to put too much emphasis on small scale tournaments in EU/NA but the amount of competition in these too also do not allow you to make as much as you could by just staying in Top32 Code S and not progressing any time beyond it." PLUS, what about streaming? lessons? sponsors that big audience attracts? i honestly dont undestand how can anyone say that foreigners in korea arent at top of popularity regardless of results. moonglade did bad, but everybody knows him cause of gsl. huk is most hated person on internet, yet his stream is most popular next to whitera if im not mistaken. idra gets more stream views than some tournaments. korea is about making money later, investment financialy and skill-wise, and europe/na is making money now. there is no excuse for not going to korea. if esports are not a fancy word that gets these nerds egos up, then by all means it should have all the rules from sports applied to it. in example, you dont decline transfer to Juventus or Arsenal cause you're doing good in porto/ajax/galatasaray and saying you're the best in the world. nobody would take you seriously, right? edit: there is big audience in the world now, and any foreigner going to korea will get that audience no matter what so why then so many excuses? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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DeepBlu2
United States975 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:02 Fadetowhite wrote: One of these problems can easily be fixed by LAN (lol) the other can be "fixed" by the players commitment to play on the highest level. Amen. It's time someone stepped up if they REALLY want to be the best. So far it's just been hot air except from Jinro and HuK. So code A can be a crapshoot? So you keep playing until you succeed. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:54 sanya wrote: this may be a very very stupid question here because i'm kinda retarded when it comes to economics and businesses but ... seeing as there's an exchange program between mlg(na) and gsl (korea) to put both communities more together ... why can't you make 1 really big tournament with a large us/kr qualifier respectively and just do a "global" star league that switches venues between kr/us every few months? the logistics in that would be a nightmare. and a huge inconvenience to all the players involved, instead of just the foreigners. On May 28 2011 02:59 Acritter wrote: This is nicely written, but fails to address the biggest problem: Code A. Code A has a huge luck element to it, a low prize pool, and a very long duration. It simply isn't worth it for foreigners to go to Korea for Code A and a shot at Code S. Maybe I'm out of the loop and this has already been solved, but from what I see Code A is too much of a barrier for anyone to bother going to Korea. i have to disagree with you here. if anything it makes it easier for foreigners to establish themselves in korea. would it be more worthwhile to go to korea to be placed in code S and get put up against absolute monsters like july or nestea first round? or worse yet set aside an unknown amount of time to qualify like the first few seasons? code a helps the players by giving them opponents that are around their skill level. getting rid of code a would be like getting rid of divisions on the ladder. | ||
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:59 Acritter wrote: This is nicely written, but fails to address the biggest problem: Code A. Code A has a huge luck element to it, a low prize pool, and a very long duration. It simply isn't worth it for foreigners to go to Korea for Code A and a shot at Code S. Maybe I'm out of the loop and this has already been solved, but from what I see Code A is too much of a barrier for anyone to bother going to Korea. thats probably why they change the code A format with winner go straight to code S and round of 32 & 16 happened in 1 week, so if you dont qualify for up&down match you can just go back to your more accomplished live in the west by the end of the week and GOM even pay everything for the top 4 foreign finisher of MLG which can realistically be 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th spot if the 4 korean take the first 4 spot | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
I think his point was that that stuff didn't matter enough to affect the decisions of MC/MKP/Nestea/MVP. They have the drive and desire to play on the biggest stage for the biggest prize, akin to what HuK and Jinro are doing in Korea, and all that other stuff comes 2nd to competing Which is fine when it's not costing you an arm and a leg to be out in korea. In order for it not to be super expensive, to have practice partners, to be able to deal with the cultural barriers, and to be able to still participate in the foreign scene. -Super expensive: This can be taken care of if either gsl just flat out pays expenses...which to some extent they are willing to do, so I don't think this is the largest and only barrier. - Practice partners: This one can be an issue, as mentioned in the xeris post most teams houses are full, and that makes it difficult for a foreign player going to korea to have a good practice schedule and people to play with. So for this to work the korean teams need to be accepting enough of foreign players to give them people to play with, or a foreign team has to move to korea to participate as an entire unit. - Cultural barriers: Without someone to essentially show you around and 'take care of you' in the sense of translating for you, or showing you where to go or not to go...there is little for you to do aside play sc2 in korea. Frankly speaking much of someones time probably would be spent playing, but they still need the occasional distraction, food, people to chat with. So essentially for a foreign player they need other foreigners there who can spend the time to show them around and help them with issues. - Participating in foreign tournaments: This one is kind of big and the one gom can do the least about...however even when people like idra were there foreigners ran into issues with gom's schedule and the foreign scene. Gom was not always 100% accommodating to foreigners living in koreans want to go to other tournaments. Even if they were the only thing you could participate in practically would be the weekend lans, all internet based tournaments such as IPL/NASL/weekly cups would all be off limits just due to latency issues between korea and NA/EU/LA servers. There is other issues here and there as well, I think the last issue is one of the greater concerns for foreigners. I also think the cultural barriers is of great concern as well to foreigners. All in all it comes down in my mind to one thing... Will I get enough out of korea as a team manager to send my players there? Right now for a lot of teams I think the answer is either no, or only temporarily if given enough time to prepare. | ||
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Aurdon
United States2007 Posts
There is ONLY GSL there. There are no smaller cups. There are no other big tournaments. There is no other way to compete for those months that you are in Korea except to play in GSL tournaments. If you get eliminated early, you just have to sit on your hands and wait for the next tournament. If you are in the foreigner scene and get elimated from NASL, you can compete in MLG. If you get eliminated from Dreamhack, you can compete in craft cups. There are MORE opportunities to compete in the foreigner scene. If you want people to compete in Korea, grow the scene beyond GSL tournaments. | ||
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:58 snailz wrote: korea is about making money later, investment financialy and skill-wise, and europe/na is making money now. there is no excuse for not going to korea. if esports are not a fancy word that gets these nerds egos up, then by all means it should have all the rules from sports applied to it. in example, you dont decline transfer to Juventus or Arsenal cause you're doing good in porto/ajax/galatasaray and saying you're the best in the world. nobody would take you seriously, right? edit: there is big audience in the world now, and any foreigner going to korea will get that audience no matter what so why then so many excuses? Derailing a bit but why not Manchester United or Barcelona when the Champions League is about 24 hours away! XD | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
On May 28 2011 02:45 Antoine wrote: it's ridiculous for you to imply that i haven't been paying attention to that. look at the weighted ratings on the djgamblore page. by any measurement, there is more money to be made for the very top players in korea. more money has been given out there in the last 1 month, last 3 months, all of 2011, or the entirety of sc2, and that's a fact. I agree with you that there is more money in Korea. But the only players that make a ton are koreans that have gone on to either win a GSL or consistently get very far in them. In other words, they are top 10 players in the world basically. So a foreigner has to decide whether they think they can get that far. If the answer is a maybe, then why risk it when you can get safe money outside of korea? Especially since theres a good chance NA/EU will have more money in the future. I mean with NASL/IPL, thats almost the prize pool of the GSL. Then you have to consider more IEM events, MLG prize pools increasing, DH prize pools increasing... prize pools across the board basically increasing. It's just tough to commit to the GSL when theres a very good chance you won't get any return. For example, Huk has made very little money in terms of prizes since going to korea (compared to what he made while in NA). The only players I really see going are those that are hellbent on being the best. They don't care about the money. For example Naniwa. That is exactly the player he is. Unfortunately there aren't many of them. | ||
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Flytothesky
United States591 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11101 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
Great response. I'm so excited about the revealing of foreigners (a full team?) in Korea. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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