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Man, I disagree.
A word is just a word(and it's detached from it's main figurative meaning) , if you brought up your children in the right way the will understand that it's something that they should avoid saying for the next 6 or so years.
Then they will start saying it anyways.
I don't know, that's how we think in my region, words are just that, words, without figurative context ( two people having sex, in this case). So we don't really care if children listen to those. If they are educated in the right manner, they will avoid them for some time ( as I said, 6 years in you case), and that's that. If they are not, then the shame is on the parents, not on the media in question.
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I don't think you've ever seen a child.
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I agree with the OP even though I'm old enough to hear adult language and sexual humor I still think the casters should act more professional during big events. I have read in this thread a number of times others who have posted something similar. However, I still enjoy some adult humor once in a while depending on my mood. STOG is on later at night not to mention once a week therefore I don't think they should have to censor anything and I enjoy their humor. Other events such as NASL, MLG, IGN, DreamHack, GSL, perhaps should be dealt with more cation.
Perhaps we can act more professional to make ESPORTS as big as possible so all ages can enjoy starcraft. Doesn't matter what Starcraft is "rated" imo if younger kids want to watch it and not be afraid of hearing harsh language they shouldn't have to worry. I do think there IS a place and time for that type of humor on starcraft just should be censored to younger ears.
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First of all, I find it surprising(AND AWESOME) that kids so young are watching Starcraft.
Just make sure you tell the caster, and possibly find other people who have children as well. If they find out that they have a younger audience than they think, i'm sure they'd tone it down.
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You show to your kids a videogame were people are cut into pieces, blown up, burn alive or consumed into acid and you don't want them to hear the word of the act that gave them their lives. I'm the kind of guy that would rather avoid words like suffer, destruction, pain, those words we use normally and have the real strong negative meaning. It's so silly the arbitrary censorship people use, and won't even stop for a second to think about it. Your kids won't transform into gangster if they hear a word on tv, quit following the "standard mature behaviour" which has medieval ideas and stop for a second to think how silly some of them are.
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The internet is a "problem zone", simply because you never know who is watching. Thus the only real solution would be to have the casters control themselves and not use inappropriate language. Putting up stickers and rating will NOT prevent kids from watching Starcraft and might even make it more attractive the more "X-rated" it becomes. Thus the opposite effect would be achieved.
During the TSL3 casts djWheat always started his casts with "What is uuuuppp ..." and I finished it mentally with "bitches". I personally wouldnt use that word, but it has crept into my thought process due to his usual greeting on his shows.
Just a few days back I was picking up my nieces from school and some 10-year old boys were talking about Facebook, sex and that there were some pages with explicit positions on it. One of them proceeded to describe said positions, so the kids do have uncontrolled first hand access to it. This should make it totally clear that the internet is a "lawless problem zone" and that the Starcraft 2 community should do its utmost to control its content, because the casters dont only have a job, they also have a responsibility as every other public figure does.
So the only real solution is to control it from the casters end, because it doesnt work to say "its the parents job to educate their children correctly". That just puts ALL the burden and responsibility on the VICTIMS. No one would say something like "its that old grandmas fault she was mugged, because she didnt learn Karate" ....
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It'd be really nice to see the ages of all the posters in this thread. I feel that the majority of the posts from adults (particularly ones with children) are in favor of some kind of understanding on the part of casters of the wide range of their audience. I feel that those who outright don't care what children are exposed to are still probably children themselves.
Flame away.
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Casting should be done professionally like the Korean casters do. Think of it as if you are casting a football game or something, but a bit more informal. Assume the people watching at least knows what each units do and what they are good against and what they are bad against. You don't need to explain things like that every game. And just be professional and keep the inside jokes and such out of it, and keep the language PG.
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On May 26 2011 14:35 dOofuS wrote:
It'd be really nice to see the ages of all the posters in this thread. I feel that the majority of the posts from adults (particularly ones with children) are in favor of some kind of understanding on the part of casters of the wide range of their audience. I feel that those who outright don't care what children are exposed to are still probably children themselves.
Flame away.
That is exactly what I thought ... thanks for mentioning it. So have a bucket of water from me for any eventual flames ...
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It'd be really nice to see the ages of all the posters in this thread. I feel that the majority of the posts from adults (particularly ones with children) are in favor of some kind of understanding on the part of casters of the wide range of their audience. I feel that those who outright don't care what children are exposed to are still probably children themselves.
Flame away.
It would be interesting to see the cultural/political/religious affiliations of most of the people in this thread. I'm sure there will be a more interesting trend. We've already identified that most of the Europeans think the idea of censorship or fear of swearing is mostly foolish (but I guess all Europeans are children). BTW I'm a 33 year old male with no children of my own but I do have 2 young nieces.
Also your post seems to be pretty condescending to younger people. Is that what you intended?
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On May 26 2011 14:29 Rabiator wrote:
The internet is a "problem zone", simply because you never know who is watching. Thus the only real solution would be to have the casters control themselves and not use inappropriate language. Putting up stickers and rating will NOT prevent kids from watching Starcraft and might even make it more attractive the more "X-rated" it becomes. Thus the opposite effect would be achieved.
During the TSL3 casts djWheat always started his casts with "What is uuuuppp ..." and I finished it mentally with "bitches". I personally wouldnt use that word, but it has crept into my thought process due to his usual greeting on his shows.
Just a few days back I was picking up my nieces from school and some 10-year old boys were talking about Facebook, sex and that there were some pages with explicit positions on it. One of them proceeded to describe said positions, so the kids do have uncontrolled first hand access to it. This should make it totally clear that the internet is a "lawless problem zone" and that the Starcraft 2 community should do its utmost to control its content, because the casters dont only have a job, they also have a responsibility as every other public figure does.
So the only real solution is to control it from the casters end, because it doesnt work to say "its the parents job to educate their children correctly". That just puts ALL the burden and responsibility on the VICTIMS. No one would say something like "its that old grandmas fault she was mugged, because she didnt learn Karate" ....
This is an absolutely atrocious analogy, I don't see how it applies to age appropriate language during casts. Also, you can't really compare age appropriate language in casts to grandma getting mugged, that's dumb as hell... You can quite easily put the burden and responsibility on them, the parents are not the victims in this case, you're putting the responsibility on them, not the children. If you really want to use the grandma example, it would be more like, "It's that cops fault he let that grandma get mugged right in front of him" and even then, it's terrible to compare an age-appropriate caster to a mugger. I'm not getting into the specifics of parental responsibility, because that's not something I want to touch on, but your reasoning and subsequent analogy are just terrible.
Once again, I keep asking for an example because I can't think of any cast I've watched that has been age inappropriate for the audience I expect to be watching it, nor do I think it's age inappropriate considering the base-line age expectation of the game.
On May 26 2011 15:33 algorithm0r wrote:Show nested quote +It'd be really nice to see the ages of all the posters in this thread. I feel that the majority of the posts from adults (particularly ones with children) are in favor of some kind of understanding on the part of casters of the wide range of their audience. I feel that those who outright don't care what children are exposed to are still probably children themselves.
Flame away. It would be interesting to see the cultural/political/religious affiliations of most of the people in this thread. I'm sure there will be a more interesting trend. We've already identified that most of the Europeans think the idea of censorship or fear of swearing is mostly foolish (but I guess all Europeans are children). BTW I'm a 33 year old male with no children of my own but I do have 2 young nieces. Also your post seems to be pretty condescending to younger people. Is that what you intended?
I agree, his post ends with "Flame away", after making nothing other than an inflammatory post. It's just condescension.
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Ignoring the fact that there may be kids watching casts, professional standards should be held to professional casted games. If our goal is to promote esports and SC2 into a mainstream entertainment field like TV in the west, or even to promote into general acceptability as a sport, we need to hold our professionals to standards we would expect from other types of sports casting. If you watch a professionally cast Basketball, Football, Football (the world sport kind  ), etc. you don't expect the casters to be swearing on camera. In fact, as far as the US is concerned you'd be fined for it.
An interesting question that I'd pose is: Do you think standards should be different for casters in an Esport even instead of a normal sporting event? Also, does the fact that most casting is done online make a difference in what standards we hold?
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On May 26 2011 15:48 rightstuff wrote:Ignoring the fact that there may be kids watching casts, professional standards should be held to professional casted games. If our goal is to promote esports and SC2 into a mainstream entertainment field like TV in the west, or even to promote into general acceptability as a sport, we need to hold our professionals to standards we would expect from other types of sports casting. If you watch a professionally cast Basketball, Football, Football (the world sport kind ), etc. you don't expect the casters to be swearing on camera. In fact, as far as the US is concerned you'd be fined for it. An interesting question that I'd pose is: Do you think standards should be different for casters in an Esport even instead of a normal sporting event? Also, does the fact that most casting is done online make a difference in what standards we hold?
The question is comparability, Starcraft 2 as a game has it's own individual rating and contains content that you will not see in Basketball, Football etc... I don't think they're directly comparable, and then there's the aspects of casual, gamer culture which I actually enjoy. I don't think any of the major casted events are unprofessional, but they aren't clean either. They're age appropriate to the rating Starcraft 2 itself receives, with content that is similar to the warning label on the back of the box, interesting enough. I think that's perfectly fine.
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Oh man, I dont get how so many people in this thread already (after 1 year of Starcraft) can have the audacity to demand anything form any caster. Censoring what they are alowed to say is even more outrageous. Well I guess thats what a Husky or TotalBiscuit brings to this community...
I also think that this is a issue that concerns exclusively americans since it is the only country that I can think of that takes verbal censorship so seriously. Take Europe for example. No one, and I really mean NO ONE would ever get the idea of censoring a televised broadcast. In german Television everything is allowed (i mean really...everything). Or take Sweden for example. Jinro stated in an interview that using strong laguage is very normal.
So I would suggest all you people who agree with the OP to chill out (no pun intended) and accept that starcraft is a world with a mostly online community, wich means everyone is invited to join but please please dont force anything on to this still infant franchise.
PS: I am NOT talking about political censorshit of course.
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Ignoring the fact that there may be kids watching casts, professional standards should be held to professional casted games. If our goal is to promote esports and SC2 into a mainstream entertainment field like TV in the west, or even to promote into general acceptability as a sport, we need to hold our professionals to standards we would expect from other types of sports casting. If you watch a professionally cast Basketball, Football, Football (the world sport kind ), etc. you don't expect the casters to be swearing on camera. In fact, as far as the US is concerned you'd be fined for it.
An interesting question that I'd pose is: Do you think standards should be different for casters in an Esport even instead of a normal sporting event? Also, does the fact that most casting is done online make a difference in what standards we hold?
An interesting question is why are people fined in America for this? Also why are THESE the standards of American sports casting?
I think the reason you don't hear swears or looser language on American TV is BECAUSE there are fines for it. Also why are there no swears on major sports casts is because there are major contracts with major networks that are subject to these rules. I don't think that the reason is because the majority of people actually think it is more "professional" or less "offensive" for this type of language to be prohibited. I think Europe is a great example of how a society does not go to shit if these rules don't exist.
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On May 26 2011 15:35 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 14:29 Rabiator wrote:
The internet is a "problem zone", simply because you never know who is watching. Thus the only real solution would be to have the casters control themselves and not use inappropriate language. Putting up stickers and rating will NOT prevent kids from watching Starcraft and might even make it more attractive the more "X-rated" it becomes. Thus the opposite effect would be achieved.
During the TSL3 casts djWheat always started his casts with "What is uuuuppp ..." and I finished it mentally with "bitches". I personally wouldnt use that word, but it has crept into my thought process due to his usual greeting on his shows.
Just a few days back I was picking up my nieces from school and some 10-year old boys were talking about Facebook, sex and that there were some pages with explicit positions on it. One of them proceeded to describe said positions, so the kids do have uncontrolled first hand access to it. This should make it totally clear that the internet is a "lawless problem zone" and that the Starcraft 2 community should do its utmost to control its content, because the casters dont only have a job, they also have a responsibility as every other public figure does.
So the only real solution is to control it from the casters end, because it doesnt work to say "its the parents job to educate their children correctly". That just puts ALL the burden and responsibility on the VICTIMS. No one would say something like "its that old grandmas fault she was mugged, because she didnt learn Karate" .... This is an absolutely atrocious analogy, I don't see how it applies to age appropriate language during casts. Also, you can't really compare age appropriate language in casts to grandma getting mugged, that's dumb as hell...
Obviously the analogy is exaggerated, but language is important ... always. If your kid picks up the regular use of swear words and such from watching Starcraft broadcasts it might have a problem later by not getting a high paying job by talking too dirty or whatever.
If you didnt understand the analogy between VICTIM and RESPONSIBILITY its your problem(*1), but the fact remains that public figures - like casters - influence the culture and behaviour of everyone who watches them. Thus their responsibility can not be denied.
(*1) hint: One is aggressor and the other the victim who didnt want its live changed, but nevertheless was forced into it. The prevention of these unwanted changes should not be burdened upon the victims.
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I can't believe so many of you hate children.
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On May 26 2011 16:36 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 15:35 Mordiford wrote:On May 26 2011 14:29 Rabiator wrote:
The internet is a "problem zone", simply because you never know who is watching. Thus the only real solution would be to have the casters control themselves and not use inappropriate language. Putting up stickers and rating will NOT prevent kids from watching Starcraft and might even make it more attractive the more "X-rated" it becomes. Thus the opposite effect would be achieved.
During the TSL3 casts djWheat always started his casts with "What is uuuuppp ..." and I finished it mentally with "bitches". I personally wouldnt use that word, but it has crept into my thought process due to his usual greeting on his shows.
Just a few days back I was picking up my nieces from school and some 10-year old boys were talking about Facebook, sex and that there were some pages with explicit positions on it. One of them proceeded to describe said positions, so the kids do have uncontrolled first hand access to it. This should make it totally clear that the internet is a "lawless problem zone" and that the Starcraft 2 community should do its utmost to control its content, because the casters dont only have a job, they also have a responsibility as every other public figure does.
So the only real solution is to control it from the casters end, because it doesnt work to say "its the parents job to educate their children correctly". That just puts ALL the burden and responsibility on the VICTIMS. No one would say something like "its that old grandmas fault she was mugged, because she didnt learn Karate" .... This is an absolutely atrocious analogy, I don't see how it applies to age appropriate language during casts. Also, you can't really compare age appropriate language in casts to grandma getting mugged, that's dumb as hell... Obviously the analogy is exaggerated, but language is important ... always. If your kid picks up the regular use of swear words and such from watching Starcraft broadcasts it might have a problem later by not getting a high paying job by talking too dirty or whatever. If you didnt understand the analogy between VICTIM and RESPONSIBILITY its your problem(*1), but the fact remains that public figures - like casters - influence the culture and behaviour of everyone who watches them. Thus their responsibility can not be denied. (*1) hint: One is aggressor and the other the victim who didnt want its live changed, but nevertheless was forced into it. The prevention of these unwanted changes should not be burdened upon the victims.
What? That doesn't make sense... You use terms like aggressor and it's so out of place.
I understand you're analogy, it's just illogical. You're calling the casters the aggressor and the children the victim while excluding the key party, the parents, you can't use such an analogy for something like this otherwise every piece of music, film, television show etc. is an aggressor when exposed to a certain audience. The parents are the key in this case, your analogy is flawed because it removes them from the equation and considers children to be victims and casters to be aggressors while excluding the key role of parents. No one is forcing them to watch casts, this analogy is broken.
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I agree with the OP, some caster really needs to drop the F bomb or sexual jokes off. I think many minors watches SC2 cast out there, since they are the true future of SC and esport. Remember that Flash was only around 12-13 when he got really good at SC:BW and start owning people after that.
But on the show like SOTG, I think its ok to have some heavy stuff, just don't let children watch that since they better off practicing to be the next Flash anyway :D.
Mass respect to OP, I can sense two SC2 stars right there.
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I can't believe so many of you hate children.
I agree... So many of you want to keep them locked in a cage unable to experience reality and learn how to cope with REAL LIFE. That way they grow up to be adults frightened of everything... even WORDS! I bet then they would vote for governments that try to control every aspect of their lives because they were unable to take responsibility for themselves out of the incredible fear they have when facing the world.
Really, please think before posting such drivel.
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EPT
