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On May 25 2011 07:40 Swad1000 wrote:
Under 13 should not be watching SC2 anyway. The casters are not the problem you are if you let children see marines getting massacred by blades and acid. Sc is rated Teen.
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.
Mpaa rating that goes with 13+
PG-13 for Parental Guidance 13+ - Parents urged to be cautious. Some material may be inappropriate for pre-teenagers.
So yea when it comes to ops point I think they need to start slapping a pg13 tag or something onto events with casters just to keep them safe. But anyone who thinks censoring great personalitys like day9/tastosis is a good ideal your crazy. Lagtv is a good example of funny ass casters who are lamer when they try to censor casts.
This is totally what I feel as well. If you are 8 you shouldn't even be watching the game in the first place. Censoring casters because of that would actually agitate me very much!
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On May 25 2011 23:35 Wolf wrote:
I've noticed a majority of professional casters avoid stepping over the line when it comes to profanity. I follow that model myself. There are always better ways of saying things.
Agreed Wolf. I personally don't have any problem with the profanity but I don't think its necessary, especially during big events.
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Interesting topic. So far I don't find SC community mature enough to let my kids watch games with me. It's a 14+ rating at least, and I do think this is hurting the growth of e-sport, on a 10 years scale.
I mean in a few years, I would not encourage my boys to play SC2 competitively as long as it does not acquire higher standards of quality to make it a real social activity. I'd like my boys to play a game that make them better, and SC2 community fails at that.
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On May 26 2011 01:47 Mordiford wrote:
Actually, the major events you listed aren't always 100% clean. None of them are, and that's fine, it's still age appropriate.
If you're fine with one thing but not another, that's your prerogative, but I don't think casters should be expected to adhere to it. It doesn't compare to other sporting events in the same way, because the game itself has a rating with "violence, blood and gore". It's like allowing your kids to watch wrestling or having it playing in your house, or UFC or whatever, the violence and blood are okay to you, but in general it's considered to be age restrictive and in that target, the profanity is age appropriate.
So, Casters? keep doing what you're doing. Players in interviews? Keep doing what you're doing. No need to shut the fuck up with anything.
It compares fine with other sporting events, plenty are violent. Can't think of much commentary that is laced with profanity or innuendo. Not sure on the UFC/WWE angle as one is just barbaric and the other a joke. But I'd argue that violence and language don't necessarily line up. SC2 isn't particularly violent by my standards unless you spend the entire time zoomed in watching marines get acid bathed even then it's not exactly realistic. From a parent perspective, it's easy to shield her eyes from it if I want and need to but not so easy to shield the ears. For myself, I just don't enjoy profanity laced casts anyway so I wouldn't listen to them anyway which makes it easier.
Anyway, I think casters alienate a certain portion of your potential audience by over using profanity.in their content. Which, if eliminated would not detract from it at all unless the show is designed around it. State of the Game and Inside the Game are easiest (only?) examples to really look at, one is definitely designed around a relaxed drunk casting discussion free for all and the other is like a radio call in show where the former would lose something to be censored and the latter would only gain.
edit: Missed a word changing the sentence meaning, doh!
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I don't want my shows ruined by politically correct bullshit.
One of the reasons I like watching Starcraft 2 is that its not like TV, the casters and players are not bound and gagged, they are free to speak as they wish.
I am fucking tired of parents who want the content creators to regulate the language because the parents want to give their kids only parts of an experience rather than the whole.
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On May 26 2011 02:04 Raid wrote:
Man when I was a kid I knew like almost every sexual reference and bs when I turned 12. Parents like to think that their kids are completely innocent but once you go to school its like hats off your gonna learn retarded things some things you wish you never learned. Its better to just embrace the curse words then censor em. Its not like sc2 commentators are talking about the dirtiest most disgusting senile crap they just hit a few swear notes here and there to express how they feel.
In large tournaments I haven't noticed or heard any bad language its just usually personal stuff will you ever get to hear it.
In most cases its just the players playing in the game would curse and it will be viewed beause its broadcasted live. It happens, players curse all the time in every sport whether you like it or not. People can put the language filter on sc2 because yes there is an option but in the end of the day 99% of the people would like to see for themselves that yes indeed idra told Huk to go fuck off.
I'm sorry, but profanity brings zero value to sc2 casts. Go find a Gus Johnson soundboard and see how many times you hear him swearing. You're turning off viewers in exchange for what? I've never watched a professional sporting broadcast and thought to myself "man, I wish vin scully would let loose sometimes and tell the ump to go fuck himself." What viewer is watching your cast and decides to keep watching because you swear? keepin it real is so 1996
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On May 26 2011 02:26 darkscream wrote:
I don't want my shows ruined by politically correct bullshit.
One of the reasons I like watching Starcraft 2 is that its not like TV, the casters and players are not bound and gagged, they are free to speak as they wish.
I am fucking tired of parents who want the content creators to regulate the language because the parents want to give their kids only parts of an experience rather than the whole.
So, your experience is better because the guy said "Holy shit that was awesome" instead of "Wow that was awesome"? This isn't about political correctness, I wonder if you even understand the term. Is occasional f-bomb going to stop me from watching SC2 - no. But quite frankly it IS going to make me feel like I'm back in high school, and I've no particular interest in reliving that train wreck.
Let me put it another way: If someone went an entire cast with no lewd references of cursing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't notice if there was no big deal made about the fact they were going to cut the stuff out. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who WOULD notice in the opposite scenario.
Frankly, you sound like you are a rebellious teenager who thinks the word "fuck" makes it more "real" or "authentic." In reality, it just makes it sound amateurish.
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On May 26 2011 02:24 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 01:47 Mordiford wrote:
Actually, the major events you listed aren't always 100% clean. None of them are, and that's fine, it's still age appropriate.
If you're fine with one thing but not another, that's your prerogative, but I don't think casters should be expected to adhere to it. It doesn't compare to other sporting events in the same way, because the game itself has a rating with "violence, blood and gore". It's like allowing your kids to watch wrestling or having it playing in your house, or UFC or whatever, the violence and blood are okay to you, but in general it's considered to be age restrictive and in that target, the profanity is age appropriate.
So, Casters? keep doing what you're doing. Players in interviews? Keep doing what you're doing. No need to shut the fuck up with anything.
It compares fine with other sporting events, plenty are violent. Can't think of much commentary that is laced with profanity or innuendo. Not sure on the UFC/WWE angle as one is just barbaric and the other a joke. But I'd argue that violence and language don't necessarily line up. SC2 isn't particularly violent by my standards unless you spend the entire time zoomed in watching marines get acid bathed even then it's not exactly realistic. From a parent perspective, it's easy to shield her eyes from it if I want and need to but not so easy to shield the ears. For myself, I just don't enjoy profanity laced casts anyway so I wouldn't listen to them anyway which makes it easier. Anyway, I think casters alienate a certain portion of your potential audience by over using profanity.in their content. Which, if eliminated would not detract from it at all unless the show is designed around it. State of the Game and Inside the Game are easiest (only?) examples to really look at, one is definitely designed around a relaxed drunk casting discussion free for all and the other is like a radio call in show where the former would lose something to be censored and the latter would only gain. edit: Missed a word changing the sentence meaning, doh!
I don't think it compares, because I can't think of any other sporting event that is violent in the same sense, unless some huge mishap happens and someone gets seriously hurt. In addition, Starcraft 2 has it's own rating so if you disagree and don't find it particularly violent that's your call, but it's there and it's rated accordingly.
Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game? There are plenty of casters I have trouble enjoying but I honestly can't think of a single one that puts be me off because of their profanity. At most you get some minor expletives, F-bombs are so few and far between that I don't consider it an issue. Maybe I just haven't encountered the casts you have, but for the life of me I can't think of something I would consider age inappropriate for the game or offensive to me personally(or anyone I know).
Everything in the world alienates some people because of it's content, any violent movie could have the cussing removed to potentially invite kids with parents who don't give a crap about people being melted and sliced and half but don't like swear words, but there are age expectations based on ratings and content is made age appropriate around that. Pretty much all casting I've encountered has been age appropriate to the content of Starcraft 2, and if you look at the label on the box, it actually turns out that it matches what you can expect from any cast.
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I seriously do not understand the american approach to profanity (im generalizing here based on the censorship in tv, i don't want to step on anyone's toes). You watch a game with your kids in which humans and aliens kill each other with a wide range of weapons. you listen to death screams and gunshots. you trust in your children to be able to differentiate these things from the real world. yet you are afraid of hearing some profane words of casters.
while profanity usually is rather useless, it seems to be a part of the net culture because all children get sheltered away from it at home and love to use it when their parents ain't around. this way it also moved into the gaming culture. you should definately watch casters that "drop the f-bomb" with your kids, that way they might at least learn that these words aint anything special and using em' doesn't make you cool. again, you let em watch people beating the shit out of each other. how much worse could some profane words be?
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On May 26 2011 02:34 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:26 darkscream wrote:
I don't want my shows ruined by politically correct bullshit.
One of the reasons I like watching Starcraft 2 is that its not like TV, the casters and players are not bound and gagged, they are free to speak as they wish.
I am fucking tired of parents who want the content creators to regulate the language because the parents want to give their kids only parts of an experience rather than the whole. So, your experience is better because the guy said "Holy shit that was awesome" instead of "Wow that was awesome"? This isn't about political correctness, I wonder if you even understand the term. Is occasional f-bomb going to stop me from watching SC2 - no. But quite frankly it IS going to make me feel like I'm back in high school, and I've no particular interest in reliving that train wreck. Let me put it another way: If someone went an entire cast with no lewd references of cursing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't notice if there was no big deal made about the fact they were going to cut the stuff out. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who WOULD notice in the opposite scenario. Frankly, you sound like you are a rebellious teenager who thinks the word "fuck" makes it more "real" or "authentic." In reality, it just makes it sound amateurish. In reality, it doesn't fucking matter whether you say 'it was super awesome' or 'it was fucking awesome'. Both are words used to intensify what you are saying. The only difference is that one of them has been labeled 'a curse word'. You really should grow up if you are offended by curse words.
People are getting cut in half on the screen and you complain about an innocent word? Go away. Children don't magically turn gay, or shoot their classmates when they hear a curse word.
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I see a few people putting out arguments "kids shouldn't be watching it anyways".
I'm not arguing against using profanity because of kids. As adults, we should know when and where profanity should be used. If you are using it humorously ("what's up, bitches!"), it's definitely different than using it insultingly ("fuck you, bitches"). However, from a professional standpoint, it's still not completely acceptable, regardless of intent. There is a reason why MMA commentary doesn't have such colorful language; because a good amount of people think it is inappropriate to use language deemed as insulting just for the sake of using it.
As a few other people said, there isn't a need to use them if something else works just as well.
NOW - if the people you are broadcasting to are of the teen to young adult group, they most likely don't care and appreciate the colorfulness. That's fine - you cater to that group. But when you advertise E-sports as something that's up and coming, and then you spend tons of money advertising and broadcasting, professionalism is something that is expected.
TL;DR: It's not about the kids
On May 26 2011 02:35 Mordiford wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2011 02:24 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 01:47 Mordiford wrote:
Actually, the major events you listed aren't always 100% clean. None of them are, and that's fine, it's still age appropriate.
If you're fine with one thing but not another, that's your prerogative, but I don't think casters should be expected to adhere to it. It doesn't compare to other sporting events in the same way, because the game itself has a rating with "violence, blood and gore". It's like allowing your kids to watch wrestling or having it playing in your house, or UFC or whatever, the violence and blood are okay to you, but in general it's considered to be age restrictive and in that target, the profanity is age appropriate.
So, Casters? keep doing what you're doing. Players in interviews? Keep doing what you're doing. No need to shut the fuck up with anything.
It compares fine with other sporting events, plenty are violent. Can't think of much commentary that is laced with profanity or innuendo. Not sure on the UFC/WWE angle as one is just barbaric and the other a joke. But I'd argue that violence and language don't necessarily line up. SC2 isn't particularly violent by my standards unless you spend the entire time zoomed in watching marines get acid bathed even then it's not exactly realistic. From a parent perspective, it's easy to shield her eyes from it if I want and need to but not so easy to shield the ears. For myself, I just don't enjoy profanity laced casts anyway so I wouldn't listen to them anyway which makes it easier. Anyway, I think casters alienate a certain portion of your potential audience by over using profanity.in their content. Which, if eliminated would not detract from it at all unless the show is designed around it. State of the Game and Inside the Game are easiest (only?) examples to really look at, one is definitely designed around a relaxed drunk casting discussion free for all and the other is like a radio call in show where the former would lose something to be censored and the latter would only gain. edit: Missed a word changing the sentence meaning, doh! I don't think it compares, because I can't think of any other sporting event that is violent in the same sense, unless some huge mishap happens and someone gets seriously hurt. In addition, Starcraft 2 has it's own rating so if you disagree and don't find it particularly violent that's your call, but it's there and it's rated accordingly. Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game? There are plenty of casters I have trouble enjoying but I honestly can't think of a single one that puts be me off because of their profanity. At most you get some minor expletives, F-bombs are so few and far between that I don't consider it an issue. Maybe I just haven't encountered the casts you have, but for the life of me I can't think of something I would consider age inappropriate for the game or offensive to me personally(or anyone I know). Everything in the world alienates some people because of it's content, any violent movie could have the cussing removed to potentially invite kids with parents who don't give a crap about people being melted and sliced and half but don't like swear words, but there are age expectations based on ratings and content is made age appropriate around that. Pretty much all casting I've encountered has been age appropriate to the content of Starcraft 2, and if you look at the label on the box, it actually turns out that it matches what you can expect from any cast.
I think the goal is to ensure that the big professional casts avoid using any profanity. For example, I don't think the educational Day9 dailies should have profanity. However, the stuff like Funday Monday or any of his humor segments should not be restricted in any way. That's my take on it.
On May 26 2011 02:42 Thorakh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:34 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On May 26 2011 02:26 darkscream wrote:
I don't want my shows ruined by politically correct bullshit.
One of the reasons I like watching Starcraft 2 is that its not like TV, the casters and players are not bound and gagged, they are free to speak as they wish.
I am fucking tired of parents who want the content creators to regulate the language because the parents want to give their kids only parts of an experience rather than the whole. So, your experience is better because the guy said "Holy shit that was awesome" instead of "Wow that was awesome"? This isn't about political correctness, I wonder if you even understand the term. Is occasional f-bomb going to stop me from watching SC2 - no. But quite frankly it IS going to make me feel like I'm back in high school, and I've no particular interest in reliving that train wreck. Let me put it another way: If someone went an entire cast with no lewd references of cursing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't notice if there was no big deal made about the fact they were going to cut the stuff out. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who WOULD notice in the opposite scenario. Frankly, you sound like you are a rebellious teenager who thinks the word "fuck" makes it more "real" or "authentic." In reality, it just makes it sound amateurish. In reality, it doesn't fucking matter whether you say 'it was super awesome' or 'it was fucking awesome'. Both are words used to intensify what you are saying. The only difference is that one of them has been labeled 'a curse word'. You really should grow up if you are offended by curse words. People are getting cut in half on the screen and you complain about an innocent word? Go away. Children don't magically turn gay, or shoot their classmates when they hear a curse word.
Then what's the point of using those words? What's their existance? If not for insult, then why use them at all? Why are we using the word "fuck" if it means the same as "having sex"? "This game is having sex awesome!"
Did it really evolve like in the "Fuck" video posted previously? Do we accept is as such? Why should we accept it?
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On May 26 2011 02:35 Mordiford wrote:
Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game?
"Wow that army just got RAPED" is something that always makes me cringe a bit, heard that a few times. Just as an example. That definitely detracts from the game for me. I probably won't turn it off, but its not outside the realm of reason if I did. It isn't about people shouting shit and fuck non stop, its just that when they do come out, it just feels amateurish. My wife doesn't care, but she absolutely will poke fun at me for watching something that uses that kind of language for no reason. And thats really the point - are we interested in this ever being socially acceptable? If all we care about is our own personal viewing, then no, it doesn't matter the huge majority of the time. If we are interested in making the content as accessible and acceptable as possible, I think its worth sticking to the same standards as any other sports cast.
It isn't about age appropriateness in my opinion, its about production quality and professionalism. I think its very simple: Turn on any sporting event on TV, those are expertly commentated, entertaining, and well done all while remaining perfectly acceptable to any given person who might turn it on. I don't see why Starcraft should try to emulate anything else. I think a good example of this kind of professionalism comes from Diggity, he seems to take his craft seriously, while still being enthusiastic and entertaining.
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On May 26 2011 02:29 scorch- wrote:
I'm sorry, but profanity brings zero value to sc2 casts. Go find a Gus Johnson soundboard and see how many times you hear him swearing. You're turning off viewers in exchange for what? I've never watched a professional sporting broadcast and thought to myself "man, I wish vin scully would let loose sometimes and tell the ump to go fuck himself." What viewer is watching your cast and decides to keep watching because you swear? keepin it real is so 1996
Why do people keep assuming that Esports need to follow the rules set by other sports? The Esport culture is unique and different from, for example, basketball culture. You cannot apply the same rules and, if it ever becomes "mainstream" (whatever that means, really), it will be by staying true to its nature, not by parroting other activities out of what sometimes feels like an inferiority complex.
On top of that, seriously, is there that much profanity in GSL, IPL, NASL and TSL casts? While I do not mean to tell anybody how to raise their kids, I hope parents do realize that kids learn swear words and are often exposed to sexual jokes pretty much as soon as they hit school age. If the F word comes up in a cast, why don't you take the opportunity to actually explain its usage rather than attempting to censor it (which is useless)?
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United States7483 Posts
On May 26 2011 02:40 DocGore wrote:
I seriously do not understand the american approach to profanity (im generalizing here based on the censorship in tv, i don't want to step on anyone's toes). You watch a game with your kids in which humans and aliens kill each other with a wide range of weapons. you listen to death screams and gunshots. you trust in your children to be able to differentiate these things from the real world. yet you are afraid of hearing some profane words of casters.
while profanity usually is rather useless, it seems to be a part of the net culture because all children get sheltered away from it at home and love to use it when their parents ain't around. this way it also moved into the gaming culture. you should definately watch casters that "drop the f-bomb" with your kids, that way they might at least learn that these words aint anything special and using em' doesn't make you cool. again, you let em watch people beating the shit out of each other. how much worse could some profane words be?
All this censorship is ridiculous, I completely agree with DocGore here. Why is it okay for them to view any sort of violence, but not listen to some language with negative connotations?
Curse words are words, people need to grow up a bit here.
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On May 26 2011 02:47 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:35 Mordiford wrote:
Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game?
"Wow that army just got RAPED" is something that always makes me cringe a bit, heard that a few times. Just as an example. That definitely detracts from the game for me. I probably won't turn it off, but its not outside the realm of reason if I did. It isn't about people shouting shit and fuck non stop, its just that when they do come out, it just feels amateurish. My wife doesn't care, but she absolutely will poke fun at me for watching something that uses that kind of language for no reason. And thats really the point - are we interested in this ever being socially acceptable? If all we care about is our own personal viewing, then no, it doesn't matter the huge majority of the time. If we are interested in making the content as accessible and acceptable as possible, I think its worth sticking to the same standards as any other sports cast. It isn't about age appropriateness in my opinion, its about production quality and professionalism. I think its very simple: Turn on any sporting event on TV, those are expertly commentated, entertaining, and well done all while remaining perfectly acceptable to any given person who might turn it on. I don't see why Starcraft should try to emulate anything else. I think a good example of this kind of professionalism comes from Diggity, he seems to take his craft seriously, while still being enthusiastic and entertaining.
I think the error in your (and many other peoples) judgement is assuming that whatever works in sports should be automatically transfered to esports cast. I would argue that that is not the case. The people who watch Starcraft are for the most part very different demographic that watch normal sports and therefore prefer other style of cast. I for one, enjoy curse words when used appropriately and when the whole cast is not based upon them. But that maybe because english isn't my native language so I'm not fucking at all offended when hearing curse words. (you see what i did there?  )
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On May 26 2011 02:43 JinDesu wrote:
NOW - if the people you are broadcasting to are of the teen to young adult group, they most likely don't care and appreciate the colorfulness. That's fine - you cater to that group. But when you advertise E-sports as something that's up and coming, and then you spend tons of money advertising and broadcasting, professionalism is something that is expected.
Pretty much exactly the point. OP is the type of viewer that brings money to esports through advertising. Parents of teenagers spend a LOT of money, and their attention (and their kids') is worth a lot to advertisers. It doesn't fucking matter if it's *right* that OP doesn't watch sc2 casts with profanity because he watches with his kids. It happens.
If casters care about their business, they need to have a good reason to be turning these viewers off, or else they're shooting themselves in the foot.
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I'm fine with the language used because I'm an adult, but I see where you're coming from. It's ok to crack jokes, but some stuff does make my raise an eyebrow and say "what?"
Casting should be treated as radio. If you couldn't say it on the radio you shouldn't be saying it during something like NASL. Day9 and SoTG are different, but to be as inclusive as possible they really should watch what they say. I'd rather see SC2 grow and gain mainstream popularity, so that's something they'd have to watch eventually.
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On May 26 2011 02:43 JinDesu wrote:I see a few people putting out arguments "kids shouldn't be watching it anyways". I'm not arguing against using profanity because of kids. As adults, we should know when and where profanity should be used. If you are using it humorously ("what's up, bitches!"), it's definitely different than using it insultingly ("fuck you, bitches"). However, from a professional standpoint, it's still not completely acceptable, regardless of intent. There is a reason why MMA commentary doesn't have such colorful language; because a good amount of people think it is inappropriate to use language deemed as insulting just for the sake of using it. As a few other people said, there isn't a need to use them if something else works just as well. NOW - if the people you are broadcasting to are of the teen to young adult group, they most likely don't care and appreciate the colorfulness. That's fine - you cater to that group. But when you advertise E-sports as something that's up and coming, and then you spend tons of money advertising and broadcasting, professionalism is something that is expected. TL;DR: It's not about the kids Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:35 Mordiford wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2011 02:24 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 01:47 Mordiford wrote:
Actually, the major events you listed aren't always 100% clean. None of them are, and that's fine, it's still age appropriate.
If you're fine with one thing but not another, that's your prerogative, but I don't think casters should be expected to adhere to it. It doesn't compare to other sporting events in the same way, because the game itself has a rating with "violence, blood and gore". It's like allowing your kids to watch wrestling or having it playing in your house, or UFC or whatever, the violence and blood are okay to you, but in general it's considered to be age restrictive and in that target, the profanity is age appropriate.
So, Casters? keep doing what you're doing. Players in interviews? Keep doing what you're doing. No need to shut the fuck up with anything.
It compares fine with other sporting events, plenty are violent. Can't think of much commentary that is laced with profanity or innuendo. Not sure on the UFC/WWE angle as one is just barbaric and the other a joke. But I'd argue that violence and language don't necessarily line up. SC2 isn't particularly violent by my standards unless you spend the entire time zoomed in watching marines get acid bathed even then it's not exactly realistic. From a parent perspective, it's easy to shield her eyes from it if I want and need to but not so easy to shield the ears. For myself, I just don't enjoy profanity laced casts anyway so I wouldn't listen to them anyway which makes it easier. Anyway, I think casters alienate a certain portion of your potential audience by over using profanity.in their content. Which, if eliminated would not detract from it at all unless the show is designed around it. State of the Game and Inside the Game are easiest (only?) examples to really look at, one is definitely designed around a relaxed drunk casting discussion free for all and the other is like a radio call in show where the former would lose something to be censored and the latter would only gain. edit: Missed a word changing the sentence meaning, doh! I don't think it compares, because I can't think of any other sporting event that is violent in the same sense, unless some huge mishap happens and someone gets seriously hurt. In addition, Starcraft 2 has it's own rating so if you disagree and don't find it particularly violent that's your call, but it's there and it's rated accordingly. Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game? There are plenty of casters I have trouble enjoying but I honestly can't think of a single one that puts be me off because of their profanity. At most you get some minor expletives, F-bombs are so few and far between that I don't consider it an issue. Maybe I just haven't encountered the casts you have, but for the life of me I can't think of something I would consider age inappropriate for the game or offensive to me personally(or anyone I know). Everything in the world alienates some people because of it's content, any violent movie could have the cussing removed to potentially invite kids with parents who don't give a crap about people being melted and sliced and half but don't like swear words, but there are age expectations based on ratings and content is made age appropriate around that. Pretty much all casting I've encountered has been age appropriate to the content of Starcraft 2, and if you look at the label on the box, it actually turns out that it matches what you can expect from any cast. I think the goal is to ensure that the big professional casts avoid using any profanity. For example, I don't think the educational Day9 dailies should have profanity. However, the stuff like Funday Monday or any of his humor segments should not be restricted in any way. That's my take on it.
There's nothing unprofessional about profanity to me in the situations that it's used, I have no problem with some mild language during casts, even an F-bomb once in a while isn't making me think they're unprofessional in their medium.
Do I think Strelok was unprofessional for answering his NASL interview question with, "You know, it was like 'What the fuck'? I didn't expect him to go all-in in that game", No... I think he was bloody hilarious.
It's not about the kids then...? It's about professionalism? I don't think it's unprofessional, I don't it should be held to the same standards because it remains age appropriate to the content of the game and caster's are never(in my experience) excessive or offensive.
On May 26 2011 02:34 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:26 darkscream wrote:
I don't want my shows ruined by politically correct bullshit.
One of the reasons I like watching Starcraft 2 is that its not like TV, the casters and players are not bound and gagged, they are free to speak as they wish.
I am fucking tired of parents who want the content creators to regulate the language because the parents want to give their kids only parts of an experience rather than the whole. So, your experience is better because the guy said "Holy shit that was awesome" instead of "Wow that was awesome"? This isn't about political correctness, I wonder if you even understand the term. Is occasional f-bomb going to stop me from watching SC2 - no. But quite frankly it IS going to make me feel like I'm back in high school, and I've no particular interest in reliving that train wreck. Let me put it another way: If someone went an entire cast with no lewd references of cursing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't notice if there was no big deal made about the fact they were going to cut the stuff out. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who WOULD notice in the opposite scenario. Frankly, you sound like you are a rebellious teenager who thinks the word "fuck" makes it more "real" or "authentic." In reality, it just makes it sound amateurish.
It doesn't really make me feel like I'm back in High School, and I liked High School... I don't really relate with you on your first point. When I hear "Holy shit that was awesome" naturally, it doesn't irritate me in any way, I would hate to force casters to moderate themselves past what they already do, and they currently do it quite well, they know not to take things overboard and that's fine. The current level of profanity is acceptable to me.
No, you can make that argument for tons of things... You could remove all the profanity and sexual content from almost any film or show, and potentially widen it's audience but it's age expectation would still be based on the rating, which would go unchanged. For example, if a movie is rated PG-13 for violence and gore after you've remove the profanity, the age recommendation and expectation is the same. That's in regards to parents and their kids.
As for it sounding amateurish, I don't feel that at all... It sounds natural to me, I don't even really mind the expletives but I do find it noticeable sometimes when a caster tries to gloss over what would have been an expletive. F-bombs are so rare that it's not an issue to me, and when they happen they still don't offend me, it's usually something humorous because of it's rarity.
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On May 26 2011 02:57 Playguuu wrote:
I'm fine with the language used because I'm an adult, but I see where you're coming from. It's ok to crack jokes, but some stuff does make my raise an eyebrow and say "what?"
Casting should be treated as radio. If you couldn't say it on the radio you shouldn't be saying it during something like NASL. Day9 and SoTG are different, but to be as inclusive as possible they really should watch what they say. I'd rather see SC2 grow and gain mainstream popularity, so that's something they'd have to watch eventually.
Why would you want to see SC2 grow mainstream if it meant to censor the shows that are such a huge part of sc2 community?
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On May 26 2011 02:35 Mordiford wrote:
I don't think it compares, because I can't think of any other sporting event that is violent in the same sense, unless some huge mishap happens and someone gets seriously hurt. In addition, Starcraft 2 has it's own rating so if you disagree and don't find it particularly violent that's your call, but it's there and it's rated accordingly.
Can you please give me an example of a profanity laced cast that detracts from the game? There are plenty of casters I have trouble enjoying but I honestly can't think of a single one that puts be me off because of their profanity. At most you get some minor expletives, F-bombs are so few and far between that I don't consider it an issue. Maybe I just haven't encountered the casts you have, but for the life of me I can't think of something I would consider age inappropriate for the game or offensive to me personally(or anyone I know).
Everything in the world alienates some people because of it's content, any violent movie could have the cussing removed to potentially invite kids with parents who don't give a crap about people being melted and sliced and half but don't like swear words, but there are age expectations based on ratings and content is made age appropriate around that. Pretty much all casting I've encountered has been age appropriate to the content of Starcraft 2, and if you look at the label on the box, it actually turns out that it matches what you can expect from any cast.
I don't see why the rating of the game and the cast are being equated. They are both separate entities, and I can listen to a cast without watching the game. I can follow a tournament and never actually watch a match. UFC is brutal, I don't watch it but is their profanity in their commentary?
Can't really give a direct example of profanity laced casts that detract from the game. I've found the major players to be mostly fine, and the occasional dropped f-bomb isn't a big deal. Only if it was being dropped in every game casts, then it would matter. But I've tried to some of the smaller tournament casts out there and I found the lessor known casters do tend to drop too many f-bombs for my tastes that I just stopped tuning them in. There are shows I wish I could listen to but can't when the kids around like Day9, but it just became too much and kid is at that stage where she picks up language and you can't just explain to her not to use that word. =) For obvious reasons, I just avoid peoples streams though I don't recall Sheth swearing, I could be wrong and Idra never talks so he's often safe. 
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