EPTCasting Language Standards - Page 19
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
League casts thou - should learn from GSL. There was one time a fuck has been heard at the GSL and it was from a player (LiquidJinro) and not from the casters. And again, it was a well deserved fuck at that time and place, so I'm pretty sure everyone let it slip with a smile. "Transitioning into loosing your whole fucking base" is very fit for Funday Monday, but not for NASL, IPL, DreamHack or MLG. | ||
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LazyScientist
United States6 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:04 warsinger wrote: I just composed this as an email to State of the Game. Hope they address it, but I'd like to hear what the always level-headed and polite TL community has to say on the issue. I am a father of 2 boys (12 and 8) and we love watching Starcraft casts and tournaments. We watch most of NASL, TSL, IPL and occasionally GSL as well as lots of independent casts and streams. My oldest son and I have attended both MLG Dallas 2010 & 2011. My question is about maturity level of the casting. Using MPAA ratings for comparison some casters I can count on to use PG language and jokes and some go all the way up to R level (or beyond). I try to learn the various styles and "ratings" for each caster and tournament and filter appropriately. If I know a caster is likely to drop F-bombs I will listen solo or maybe watch it on mute with the kids. Then there are casts that are mostly clean but occasionally use some harsher language or sexually oriented jokes (looking at you Gretorp). Another situation is during post game interviews with the players. 5 seconds into the TSL3 championship post game interview, the F-bomb emerges after a pretty clean cast. I reached for the mute button very quickly. Glad my wife didn't hear it. I'm not trying to complain or say there should be any censorship, but I would like to hear your discussion on some sort of mechanism for determining what the age appropriateness of specific tournament casts will be. Would it be possible to have some sort of rating system so that when tuning in to watch a tournament I can know that the casters will or will not be using certain types of language? Another idea is a PG edited version where someone has taken the time to bleep out parts of the cast (like the TV version of an R movie). I'd love to have this for something like the Day9 Daily but I know such things take time and money. Can you imagine an edited version of SOTG? As esports continues to grow I think this may be a barrier to entry for some like myself who are trying to protect the minds and ears of our little children at least for a few more years. I realize my standards are quite different from many but there are established standards for the major TV networks. Would a model like this help or hurt esports development? Love to hear your thoughts. Warsinger Bronze Division Braxis Zeta Looks like you brought me out of lurking. First of all, I'd like to thank you for exposing your sons to such an enriching game. It shares many similarities to chess and other strategy games. I would argue its very stimulating for the mind and helps you think on multiple levels. Second, websites like justin.tv do have mature filters. They state that some of the material may be inappropriate for younger viewers, i.e. Steven Bonnell's stream and DJWheats stream both have these filters. I don't believe there has been any official statement on this, but I believe that the casters and spokespeople for the MLG try to act as professionally as possible. This includes not going off the hook with things like swearing or sexual jokes. While I would agree a rating system could be necessary, I would ask you, where do we draw the line? How many times is someone allowed to swear? What about when players swear? Many other people from other countries also watch these streams. Would we impose the same censorship on them that we would on us Americans? I should hope not. If the casts are absolutely riddled with curse words and sexual innuendo it doesn't work. People don't want to watch it because its not entertaining, its just stupid. To address whether or not the standard model for TV broadcasts, they actually do have very lewd and foul language. I could search youtube for clips to prove my point, but I think it speaks for itself. Furthermore, this game has gore in it. Plenty of it too when your zergling chews through a marine, a hatchery bleeds, or when roaches are splattered by tank fire. I would think it would be more appropriate to as you said "protect" the minds of your children from this violence as much as it would the strong language present in the broadcasts of this game. As for my final point I would ask you this: your kids will be exposed to this language anyway. When I was your kids age, I entered middle school. All we did was curse and swear at each other and our teachers. It would be better if you sat your kids down and explained when its appropriate to use strong language rather than to consider ratings or censorship. -Rich | ||
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Alex)
Scotland263 Posts
BBFC: 15[6] ESRB: T GRB: 12+ (censored) 18+ (uncensored) PEGI: 16+ Your kids should not be watching starcraft 2. I am sorry but i hate these kinds of topics that the OP is talking about. The game is for adult/teens. Another thing is your kids wont even understand the language that they use and if you make a big deal out of it (bu muting it or covering their ears or something) they will understand that its a big deal and remember that word. E-sports its not ment to be professional, where all gamers, where all ment to have fun and relax. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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RuMCaKe
United States559 Posts
I think there is a big difference between someone casting an event, and an independent stream. I think if someone is casting an event the promotion they are casting for should be able to rely on a certain degree of professionalism. Just as they should be able to rely on their players to set a positive example for the youth and players watching. However, I think when it comes to watching independent streams that is the streamers chance to show who they are, and some people do curse like sailors. However, there is others out there like Sheth for example, that are very courteous and respectful while he is streaming his private games. There's my 2 cents. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On May 25 2011 16:51 dOofuS wrote: The community can report on past content, but you can't expect the community to know in advance, what a tournament will allow in terms of content. Even someone like IPL, as professional as their broadcasts are, can't control the commentary of the casters, specifically for live broadcasts. There's really no way to rate it, unless the caster(s) themselves clearly define their personal 'rating'. Well the OP was asking for a rating system - if it's impossible to rate then I'm not sure how to get this any further. Events and casters are free to rate themself I guess but good luck enforcing it in Europe, censorship and restrictions aren't very popular here. | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On May 25 2011 17:53 wei2coolman wrote: I think you're looking at this at a totally wrong point of view. Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty is rated T (ESRB), other rating systems have it rated 16+, elsewhere in europe. If you have problem w/ the sexual innuendo's that will fly way above your kids head (they won't understand it), but don't have a problem w/ marines catching on fire from hellions, and them blowing up w/ guts and bits from siegetank shot. I believe you have your priorities as a parent way off. I dont know the UK rating system but the german version is rated 12+. and as a parent I wouldnt have a problem when my kids play sc2. in my eyes even 12+ is a joke (when I was at that age it was normal for everyone to play half life etc). But a different thing is the language. I must say that I haven't heard any "bad" language from any professional caster (GSL, MLG, IEM/ESL, TSL), but I might be wrong since I don't concentrate on this too much. But I agree that casters should be aware that kids might be watching and use their language appropriately. Completely different in my eyes are shows like Stotg or user streams - in that case every person should just act normal. | ||
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OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
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Shagg
Finland825 Posts
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
Seriously, sooner or later you children are going to hear the 'F-word'. Just teach them to not swear at every little thing, but there is nothing wrong with swearing once in a while, for expressing yourself a little stronger (if the situation is appropriate). I'll sure as hell won't be 'protecting' my children from swear words. I'll be teaching them how to handle them responsibly. I'm sorry but this is so typical of US values. You are upset over some swear words in a game where things get constantly splattered by tanks, lightning storms or suicide bombing acid ball things and want to censor it for everyone else too. Lovely. Extremely violent movies and stuff are fine, but when someone shows a boob (OH MY GOD! A BOOB!) or when someone says fuck, it's BEEP or BLUR. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
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antikk555
85 Posts
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RoyalCheese
Czech Republic745 Posts
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Drolla
United Kingdom389 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:25 Scrubington wrote: What's wrong with just wearing headphones? or simply not watching it with younger children. Well that defeats the purpose of what he said in the OP. He wants to watch Starcraft with his children and he obviously enjoys it. | ||
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kaztah
Norway1221 Posts
In Norway you'd be hard pressed to find people who aren't or hasn't been gamers of any sort, so the "nerdy juvenile teenager" stereotype basicly fits the entire population. Swearing is fucking normal around here and no one bats an eye at it, and it's being shown on broadcasts all the time. My biggest problem with this is that e-sport is an internet thing, and as a person who has grown up on the internet, people here are usually more thick-skinned and more desensitized about everything really. Violence, swearing or sex, it's all over the net. So let your kids watch tv or whatever and let us have our stereotypical fun. When they're old enough for you to consider letting them surf around as much as they want on the net, that's when you should let them get integrated in the language too. Don't fuck over us europeans just because you americans are afraid of simple words that can be used as proper adjectives when something really cool happends. | ||
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Ryuuka
Sweden87 Posts
On May 25 2011 21:19 kaztah wrote: The biggest problem with this discussion is the vast cultural difference of the people that actually watches this game. Brood War had it easy, since they can just tailor it perfectly for koreans. Starcraft 2 on the other hand is vastly more international, and with this comes differences. In Norway you'd be hard pressed to find people who aren't or hasn't been gamers of any sort, so the "nerdy juvenile teenager" stereotype basicly fits the entire population. Swearing is fucking normal around here and no one bats an eye at it, and it's being shown on broadcasts all the time. My biggest problem with this is that e-sport is an internet thing, and as a person who has grown up on the internet, people here are usually more thick-skinned and more desensitized about everything really. Violence, swearing or sex, it's all over the net. So let your kids watch tv or whatever and let us have our stereotypical fun. When they're old enough for you to consider letting them surf around as much as they want on the net, that's when you should let them get integrated in the language too. Don't fuck over us europeans just because you americans are afraid of simple words that can be used as proper adjectives when something really cool happends. This! Seriously, it's just words, and words they will hear anyway. As many have pointed out the game isn't made for kids either, I would hate it if every cast got censored because someone took offense.. I'm offended by the fact that everyone is offended by everything (lol). Soon we won't be able to say a word anywhere because someone might be offended. It's ridiculous. | ||
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TheRPGAddict
United States1403 Posts
On May 25 2011 12:11 JWD wrote: This is a good point and is why this type of thing should not be overlooked.I agree with OP for the simple reason that I am embarrassed to recommend SC2 streams to my friends because I know there's a substantial chance they'll flip on the program and hear gratuitous cursing or a second-grade-level joke. God bless DJWheat, but the one day I tweeted to recommend TSL on my personal twitter he opened the broadcast with "What up bitches??" That is not the impression I wanted to give my friends of what the SC2 scene is like. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 25 2011 22:06 TheRPGAddict wrote: This is a good point and is why this type of thing should not be overlooked. What impression is that giving that you don't want to give? I can't see how that would be offensive or off-putting to anyone of my friends, I'm wondering why it would be off-puting to yours? This really makes no sense to me, I can't see how anyone of my friends would be offended by something as simple as the opening of "What up bitches"... I feel like some of you are really blowing the content of the casts out of proportion, I honestly can't think of anything that's disproportionate in terms of age expectation to what's being seen on screen. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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