EPTYou learn even more if you watch movies.
It is inevitable for children these days to not learn a full array of mature languages when they enter school.
I personally do not mind it as long as it is not excessive and used in the "proper context".
Casting Language Standards - Page 14
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Hikari
1914 Posts
You learn even more if you watch movies. It is inevitable for children these days to not learn a full array of mature languages when they enter school. I personally do not mind it as long as it is not excessive and used in the "proper context". | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:15 quancer wrote:+ Show Spoiler + The OP is an example of the audience that esports needs to reach out to in order to achieve the mainstream appeal of conventional sports. Within esport communities there's this awful tendency (perhaps something to do with the young base) to demand broad acceptance without compromise. This sort of thing is simply not realistic, and if we continue to demand that mainstream audiences see the "error in their ways" and embrace SC2, gaming, e-sports, without compromise, the communities will see no growth. Whether we like it or not, the perception of professionalism and maturity plays a huge role in whether an endeavour is positively or negatively received. While we might reflexively want to argue the absurdity of societal expectations, being the brash young adults we are, we should take a moment to consider where these expectations come from. In regards to the issue of language: I think people misunderstand the nature of crude language and its usage. While to an extent some of us find it displeasing due to conditioning, crude language also exists to serve the purpose of expressing mild to extreme disrespect. Words like "fuck" and "rape" are not artificial; they exist because we need them to exist. The presence of cursing in a broadcast or communique can indicate colloquiality, casual dirsregard, or even contempt, depending on the frequency used. That is to say, cursing is a tool that we use intuitively. We censor ourselves when we wish to express respect and friendliness, and we swear when we wish to express disrespect, either explicitly to our enemies or ironically to our friends. With this in mind, we need to accept that a fastidious attitude toward language is something we must embrace as esports continues to grow. We must understand that cursing in large-scale events like GSL and TSL would have very negative consequences, not because society at large is afraid of words like "fuck," but because it takes offense to the implications of the word "fuck" in a prestigious and mainstream events. And when it comes to parents, we should recognize that the desire to teach our children the differences between "good" and "bad" words comes not from the irrational fear of the words, but from the intuitive desire to teach our kids good diplomacy. PS: The argument that Starcraft is a "mature" game and thus should be exempted from mainstream expectations misses the issue entirely. It's not an issue of values or parenting, it's an issue of professionalism Very good post. I just want to say that cleaning up the language for the sake of professionalism is one thing, it's up to the organizers how they wish to promote their product but I agree that for the bigger tournaments it could be a good idea to keep it clean. Which they do 99% of the time. Forcing it due to concerned parents in the US however is something different and something I'm strongly against. If a group of volunteers would set up a web page where they rated the various streams it's all good, but don't come slapping maturity ratings on Dreamhack and expect it to be official. Know that eSports and Sc2 is a global phenomena and not everyone share the american view on cuss words and censorship. Your ways aren't our ways and don't try to force them on us. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:24 Pandemona wrote: Yes, most of the streams ive ever seen or even most of the GOMtv casts of GSL i watched (mainly VODs thought so mybe they edited out any swearing i missed) i havent seen any huge bad language. Ive heard 1/2 swears from tasteless before but nothing bad. However i do remember a certain jinro in GSL season 3 swrore several times in his interviews lol, was funny though! He's Swedish, deal with it. | ||
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maahes`ra
United States255 Posts
On May 25 2011 07:04 Longshank wrote: Very good post. I just want to say that cleaning up the language for the sake of professionalism is one thing, it's up to the organizers how they wish to promote their product but I agree that for the bigger tournaments it could be a good idea to keep it clean. Which they do 99% of the time. Forcing it due to concerned parents in the US however is something different and something I'm strongly against. If a group of volunteers would set up a web page where they rated the various streams it's all good, but don't come slapping maturity ratings on Dreamhack and expect it to be official. Know that eSports and Sc2 is a global phenomena and not everyone share the american view on cuss words and censorship. Your ways aren't our ways and don't try to force them on us. I echo your sentiments. I don't think the 'standards' will be the same everywhere, but a warning would definitely be good if someone new is unaware of Europe's more lax stance on language. If these things were ever to really materialize, I imagine they'd be upheld by the sponsors before anyone else so the level of professionalism deemed necessary will likely directly relate to the nationality of the source. It's less about the conduct itself rather than not knowing the conduct is going to occur - the OP and people like him aren't demanding all live SC2 content be sterilized, just that they be told what to expect. Those people are still a minority, so organizers will sooner attach a 'casters are raunchy' tag before censoring content... I'd hope. o__o | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:58 maahes wrote: + Show Spoiler + When you say something new, I'll say something new. When you make a point, I'll speak to that point. I never said that vulgar diction and violence go hand in hand, but both are generally considered inappropriate for youngsters, if something has levels violence that leads to a rating of 13+, then removing any aspects of language won't change that the violence is still present. If you're fine with your child viewing violent imagery but not hearing mature language then that's your call. I was speaking more specifically to the idea of a tag in that post, generally if you take don't take issue with the things listed on the back of Starcraft 2(Violence, Blood and Gore, Language and Suggestive Themes), you won't have a problem with pretty much every major casting event... Just use that as your gauge. In regards to Starcraft 2, casting is generally leveled around the PG-13 mark, which is the level of content in the game as well as what happens to be listed on the box. What point are you making? I'm confused... Yeah, violence doesn't require vulgarity to go hand-in-hand with it, I never said that it does. | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
On May 25 2011 05:39 DestroManiak wrote: Kids do not need your protection... (Unless it is some extreme hardcore porn or some serious violence, like footage of real violence or something...) Thats totally up to the parents of the kids in question as to what their kids need protection from, you may not care about anything except hardcore porn and violence, but I guarantee there is a very large portion of parents who have much stricter guidelines for what they do not want THEIR kids exposed to at certain ages. | ||
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Scorcher2k
United States802 Posts
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Swad1000
United States366 Posts
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language. Mpaa rating that goes with 13+ PG-13 for Parental Guidance 13+ - Parents urged to be cautious. Some material may be inappropriate for pre-teenagers. So yea when it comes to ops point I think they need to start slapping a pg13 tag or something onto events with casters just to keep them safe. But anyone who thinks censoring great personalitys like day9/tastosis is a good ideal your crazy. Lagtv is a good example of funny ass casters who are lamer when they try to censor casts. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On May 25 2011 07:24 maahes wrote: I echo your sentiments. I don't think the 'standards' will be the same everywhere, but a warning would definitely be good if someone new is unaware of Europe's more lax stance on language. If these things were ever to really materialize, I imagine they'd be upheld by the sponsors before anyone else so the level of professionalism deemed necessary will likely directly relate to the nationality of the source. It's less about the conduct itself rather than not knowing the conduct is going to occur - the OP and people like him aren't demanding all live SC2 content be sterilized, just that they be told what to expect. Those people are still a minority, so organizers will sooner attach a 'casters are raunchy' tag before censoring content... I'd hope. o__o Maybe it's the definition of the label I oppose. I suppose a tag saying the content is not censored or restricted would be alright and would serve as a warning for parents such as the OP. Forcing a label saying the content is not appropriate for children however just seems wrong to me, it could lead to European(or American for that matter) parents who doesn't care much about the occasional foul language would feel reluctant to let their children watch. | ||
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Sakarabu
United Kingdom132 Posts
The first thing I would suggest, although I realise this really isn't ideal, is to watch anything you want to show them first and check for anything which you deem to be inappropriate. Obviously like I said this isn't ideal, but it's really the only way to be 100% sure if you really feel strongly about the issue. Apart from that I don't really think there is any surefire way to police this, I mean when emotions are running high it's very easy to slip up on a live cast. But I agree casters should probably be a little more conscious of what they say in the larger tournaments. You would NEVER see someone swearing on GSL for instance, you often see Nick and Dan catch themselves though! lol | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
"Mature Language Streamer" is really all that needs to be put. Personally, I feel like the best casts dont necessarily rely on mature language, and since we are trying to make this game as accessible as possible i would recommend everyone to just refrain from it. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
I'm 14. I'm not going to go on a killing spree because I saw some marines get ripped apart by zerglings. Hearing casters scream "holy shit! <why it's amazing>" won't make me into a bad person. A lot of parents that I've met seem to assume that as long as the kid doesn't hear the word when they're around the parent, they're never going to hear the word. This is simply not true. I'm with the europeans on this one, just chillax it. That said, if keeping it all PG(-13) would help expand SC2, I'm all for it. Most casters are pretty good about keeping it under control. I don't think that i've ever heard Husky or Chill swear. Gretorp's little innuendos are a bit more suspect, but depending on how young the kid is, he's either heard it before or won't understand it. Day[9] sometimes goes overboard, though. The best cast in history is a great example of this.Chill vs Combat-Ex | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
It just seems pretty unlikely that someone who is that young is going to be watching in the first place, the majority of viewers are ages 14+ and already swear like sailors. Personally, I won't even watch a movie if its PG rated most of the time. I hate when things are dulled down, cause life sure isn't. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
 problem with an occasional curse word once in a while during a cast? A well placed holy shit or a fucking cunt enhances the cast. First it has a shock effect and secondly a humorous effect, if used properly and intelligent.Wrong priority Why is that Americans claims they protect the children from cursing while not protecting them from far more severe problems. I talk about the right for parents to beat up a child! That horrible... What is worse a physically and mentality damaged child vs a child that experience a curse word? In America there are many parents with guns and those guns invoke fear and cause a lot of accidental injuries and death for children. | ||
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Ridiculisk
Australia191 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The OP is an example of the audience that esports needs to reach out to in order to achieve the mainstream appeal of conventional sports. Within esport communities there's this awful tendency (perhaps something to do with the young base) to demand broad acceptance without compromise. This sort of thing is simply not realistic, and if we continue to demand that mainstream audiences see the "error in their ways" and embrace SC2, gaming, e-sports, without compromise, the communities will see no growth. Whether we like it or not, the perception of professionalism and maturity plays a huge role in whether an endeavour is positively or negatively received. While we might reflexively want to argue the absurdity of societal expectations, being the brash young adults we are, we should take a moment to consider where these expectations come from. In regards to the issue of language: I think people misunderstand the nature of crude language and its usage. While to an extent some of us find it displeasing due to conditioning, crude language also exists to serve the purpose of expressing mild to extreme disrespect. Words like "fuck" and "rape" are not artificial; they exist because we need them to exist. The presence of cursing in a broadcast or communique can indicate colloquiality, casual dirsregard, or even contempt, depending on the frequency used. That is to say, cursing is a tool that we use intuitively. We censor ourselves when we wish to express respect and friendliness, and we swear when we wish to express disrespect, either explicitly to our enemies or ironically to our friends. With this in mind, we need to accept that a fastidious attitude toward language is something we must embrace as esports continues to grow. We must understand that cursing in large-scale events like GSL and TSL would have very negative consequences, not because society at large is afraid of words like "fuck," but because it takes offense to the implications of the word "fuck" in a prestigious and mainstream events. And when it comes to parents, we should recognize that the desire to teach our children the differences between "good" and "bad" words comes not from the irrational fear of the words, but from the intuitive desire to teach our kids good diplomacy. PS: The argument that Starcraft is a "mature" game and thus should be exempted from mainstream expectations misses the issue entirely. It's not an issue of values or parenting, it's an issue of professionalism I agree with this 100%. If we (as a major part of the E-sports community) really want to be taken seriously, then we need to act professionally. It's perfectly exceptable for casters to get excited and let things slip. It happens, and it displays a level of passion that I think is important. But professional tournaments like NASL, TSL, GSL, etc should strive to maintain a professional cast. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
The verdict: miniwheat says "only show boobies once per show." Nice. | ||
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SpaceToaster
United States289 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:10 sylverfyre wrote: Many parents don't want their 12 year olds being exposed to f-bombs either. America is a bit weird in this respect - adults swear all the time, but the "but not in front of the kids!!" attitude is extremely prevalent, even from parents who swear a lot themselves outside of their kids' presence. America does seem to be very different when it comes to swearing. To me the American idea is not to swear in front of strangers or authority figures, mostly for the reasons TotalBiscuit has said (shows lack of vocabulary, nonprofessional, etc). Children don't develop a good sense of what is appropriate without a lot of reinforcement, so in general its safer to teach them not to swear. For instance, a person may be okay with their child swearing, but nobody wants their child to be constantly in trouble for swearing at school, and it can be very difficult to teach a child (and to some extent teenagers as well, depends on the kid) when swearing is okay. To that end, I agree that major tournaments - the crux of expanding SC2 eSports' popularity - should adopt more of a PG language filter. I don't think the casts will suffer in any way from more professional language, and more professional casting will help bring more legitimacy to broadcasts. Shows where the community lets its hair down, so to speak, and are for more niche audiences like State of the Game and the Day9 Daily's don't need to be as professional. I think professional casting is one of the things that will help keep the perception of SC2 as a sport, and not as a bunch of nerds watching each other play a videogame (which is unfortunately not uncommon.) | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Also Day9 daily is extremely family friendly. | ||
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